Apple Employees Continue to Fight Return to Campuses and Push for Better Remote Working Options

[Steve Adams]

Yes, because it's the Apple developer making $150k/year that's driving the divide between the haves and have nots. It certainly couldn't be the benevolent and lowly Bezos, Musk, and Zuckerberg's of the world, with their tens of billions of dollars. An employee living on the Bay Area making $150k probably can't even afford a vacant, burned out house on that salary, let alone in some high-end gated community.

Burned shell of a home sells for more than $900,000 in San Jose

The home landed six cash offers, all over the asking price.

www.mercurynews.com

Your idea of what a low six figure income gets you in that part of the country is a fantasy, as is your belief of who's intentionally furthering the gap between the top 1% and everyone else.

Yeah really. I live in one of the "most affordable living conditions" provinces in canada and 150k does not get you much here. A nice 1500 sq home (not in a gated community) like some of the jealous, living in their mothers basement types here would have you believe. You get a decent vehicle and home here for 150k and some comfortable living. Far from living the ivory tower, silver spoon in the mouth folk.

 

[Rafterman]

I think it has something to do with the indolent, living in their gated communities and WFH with their fiber internet connections, seem to be grasping for more to make the divide between the haves and the have nots even wider. It's especially grating when they denigrate those that have to work retail because they "don't get a better job" or aren't "highly skilled". But it's always been the elitist snobs that support segregation and oppression.

So people who are fortunate to have good jobs and salaries and benefits are "bad" to you? Maybe I should demand to cut my salary in half so I won't be "elitist." The comments denigrating the have nots only come when people who WFH are called lazy or that we watch TV all day. We don't.

 

[dgrey]

bitter much with the elitest snob comments? I think so.

Of all the people in this thread who support the children at Apple throwing temper tantrums over their impending and unavoidable return to the office, you are the nastiest and most acidic, calling other forum members here names, and casting aspersions about them. You have a constant vindictive tone towards other MacRumors forum posters who believe differently than you do on the subject. While most everyone else sticks to criticizing the Apple Employees, you personally attack other MacRumors members.

 

[rpmurray]

Welp, it's been fun, but my ears are ringing from the echo chamber of the nabobs competing to see who wins the battle of "he who talks the loudest and the longest wins", so I'm heading off to calmer waters.

 

[tallii4]

I'm quite jealous of people who can work from home. With my job, it's not possible. Still, if everyone who can WFH does so, it would make my commute a lot more bearable. Take a few hundred/thousand commuters off the street during rush hour and my commute stop being a soul drain, road rage inducing hell.
See, there are benefits to those of us who can't WFH for those who can, do. How about it, the What's-in-it-for-me crowd? How does a cutting your commute time in half sound?🤗

I too am in this category. I chose a job that requires me to be onsite to work. Am I super envious of those who can WFH? Of course, I am CONSTANTLY distracted by visual and auditory interruptions throughout my workday. Working in these modern “open concept” office spaces that have you 3ft away from your colleagues is distracting and often times frustrating. There is no peace and even having headphones on doesn’t stop people from interrupting you. A beautiful outdoor campus doesn’t help anyone when you’re still tied to meetings and deliverables that keep you inside throughout the entire day. However, having been back since June 2020, it’s been such an incredible breath of fresh air to have my 7 mile commute take only 15 minutes instead of an hour, and to be able to find parking onsite rather than the offsite option that’s a half mile walk from my office. I may not directly benefit from WFH in my role, but keeping more people at home benefits me in so many other ways.

 

[Rafterman]

Of all the people in this thread who support the children at Apple throwing temper tantrums over their impending and unavoidable return to the office, you are the nastiest and most acidic, calling other forum members here names, and casting aspersions about them. You have a constant vindictive tone towards other MacRumors forum posters who believe differently than you do on the subject. While most everyone else sticks to criticizing the Apple Employees, you personally attack other MacRumors members.

You missed all the insults thrown at us WFHers, who are called lazy, unimportant and watch TV all day. Why should you even care if Apple employees want to work from home? Why are you insulting them by calling them children, then you go on to complain about how you felt insulted by posters here?

 

[tallii4]

Yes, because it's the Apple developer making $150k/year that's driving the divide between the haves and have nots. It certainly couldn't be the benevolent and lowly Bezos, Musk, and Zuckerberg's of the world, with their tens of billions of dollars.

An employee living in the Bay Area making $150k probably can't even afford a vacant, burned out house on that salary, let alone in some high-end gated community.

Burned shell of a home sells for more than $900,000 in San Jose

The home landed six cash offers, all over the asking price.

www.mercurynews.com

Your idea of what a low six figure income gets you in that part of the country is a fantasy, as is your belief of who's intentionally furthering the gap between the top 1% and everyone else. The ultra-wealthy's plan is obviously working though, turn the lower class and the middle class against one another to distract both while they make off with the goods.

My 6 figure salary in the South Bay (not even Cupertino) gets me half of an apartment that 52% of my income goes towards 😭 commenters seem to have no clue that a) apple doesn’t pay everyone 250k salaries, and b) how expensive it really is to live here. Shoot, I have friends in corporate positions here who STILL don’t make a 6 figure salary.

 

[grandM]

I feel people are talking but not listening.

One category says it's about the job. If the job can be done from home. Why not? If the employee performs better at the office let him go there. If he performs better at home. Great! Some jobs can't be done from home due to secrecy. Ok. The less people commuting the less traffic, polution and the less burden for others.

The second category says those WFH will watch TV, perform worse, are out for a quick buck moving to cheaper places. They don't trust them. Plus pre-covid they've signed a contract and this should be respected no matter what.

This entire thread is about empowerment versus control. Propagators for these seemingly opposing viewpoints are most likely of different character and/or upbringing. These mind determining factors are sadly enough seldom overcome by metrics.

 

[Rafterman]

My 6 figure salary in the South Bay (not even Cupertino) gets me half of an apartment that 52% of my income goes towards 😭 commenters seem to have no clue that a) apple doesn’t pay everyone 250k salaries, and b) how expensive it really is to live here. Shoot, I have friends in corporate positions here who STILL don’t make a 6 figure salary.

I make low six figures in Buffalo NY, and can live pretty high on the hog. But if I lived in NYC or San Fran, I'd be almost dirt poor. My entire salary would almost go to rent or a mortgage.

 

[dgrey]

You missed all the insults thrown at us WFHers, who are called lazy, unimportant and watch TV all day. Why should you even care if Apple employees want to work from home? Why are you insulting them by calling them children, then you go on to complain about how you felt insulted by posters here?

Did anyone insult you personally? Or just say negative things about people who “WFH” in general? Apple Employees are the subject of the news story, and therefore, Apple Employees involved in the story in general are fair fodder. But there is a habit of a certain poster I have previously mentioned to insult MacRumors members involved in this discussion personally.

 

[Rafterman]

Did anyone insult you personally? Or just say negative things about people who “WFH” in general?

Both.

 

[dgrey]

Both.

Saying negative things about people who “WFH” in general is acceptable. It’s when you personally attack people (MacRumors forum members) specifically that is the problem.

 

[LDN]

Yeah, first of all, these people aren't "bitching and whining." The idea of sitting at work everyday is stupidly outdated as anyone who has every worked in an office can attest to. It's way harder for parents, too, who are still managing the reality of hybrid school (I'm one of them.) That said, it's also laughable to expect that Apple managers will permit their directs to work remotely. I can all but guarantee from personal experience that that will not happen. Apple managers rarely if ever break from the pack, and even if there's a pilot program, I have a hard time imagining anyone is gonna stick their neck out. What WILL happen is brain-drain from Apple as the rest of the valley moves forward with flexible work options and Apple doesn't. Short-sighted move.

There is nothing “outdated” about being around other people and collaborating in real life. It has no substitute. Apple is not the kind of company you choose to go to work for if you don’t want to talk to anyone or see anyone. If these people decide to leave, others who actually like interacting with other people by choice will fill the gaps and Apple will end up even better off.

The pandemic has highlighted all the people who never really wanted to be at work in the first place, and its also highlighted the people who love to be around others. The former never really had their hearts in it and they could have been the reason why Apple isn’t performing as well as it should. Passionate people, people who Apple seek, crave interaction and dealing with others face-to-face. This is the best time ever to weed out heel-draggers.

 

[Ms6boost]

There is nothing “outdated” about being around other people and collaborating in real life. It has no substitute. Apple is not the kind of company you choose to go to work for if you don’t want to talk to anyone or see anyone. If these people decide to leave, others who actually like interacting with other people by choice will fill the gaps and Apple will end up even better off.

The pandemic has highlighted all the people who never really wanted to be at work in the first place, and its also highlighted the people who love to be around others. The former never really had their hearts in it and they could have been the reason why Apple isn’t performing as well as it should. Passionate people, people who Apple seek, crave interaction and dealing with others face-to-face. This is the best time ever to weed out heel-draggers.

Understatement of the year.

 

[Rafterman]

Saying negative things about people who “WFH” in general is acceptable. It’s when you personally attack people (MacRumors forum members) specifically that is the problem.

Saying negative things about people who “WFH” in general is acceptable? Why? What is the offense in WFH?

 

[Scoob Redux]

No, your tight crop makes it look worse than it is. 979 single family homes within 20 miles. Turn off the single family home filter and you could walk to work.

huh? There are NO single family homes under $1.6M in Cupertino, as clearly shown. And Cupertino is the area defined in the quote. Twenty miles? That's many, many cities, and not what was stated in the article.

 

[DeepWebinar]

I’ve seen people on this site take some out there positions in order to defend a faceless, greedy behemoth just because they make the phone they like, but the thinly veiled vitriol expressed against workers who don’t want to go back to the office and have proved they don’t need to feels plainly cruel.

 

[I7guy]

I’ve seen people on this site take some out there positions in order to defend a faceless, greedy behemoth just because they make the phone they like, but the thinly veiled vitriol expressed against workers who don’t want to go back to the office and have proved they don’t need to feels plainly cruel.

People defending “employees” who don’t want to go back to the office as their given right to tell an employer how their job should be done is equally ridiculous.

 

[Steve Adams]

Of all the people in this thread who support the children at Apple throwing temper tantrums over their impending and unavoidable return to the office, you are the nastiest and most acidic, calling other forum members here names, and casting aspersions about them. You have a constant vindictive tone towards other MacRumors forum posters who believe differently than you do on the subject. While most everyone else sticks to criticizing the Apple Employees, you personally attack other MacRumors members.

Those in glass houses. Anyhoo. Your jealous, caustic attitude comes out in every post you make. Belly aching because some people can work from home while you can't. Poor thing.

 

[Steve Adams]

There is nothing “outdated” about being around other people and collaborating in real life. It has no substitute. Apple is not the kind of company you choose to go to work for if you don’t want to talk to anyone or see anyone. If these people decide to leave, others who actually like interacting with other people by choice will fill the gaps and Apple will end up even better off.

The pandemic has highlighted all the people who never really wanted to be at work in the first place, and its also highlighted the people who love to be around others. The former never really had their hearts in it and they could have been the reason why Apple isn’t performing as well as it should. Passionate people, people who Apple seek, crave interaction and dealing with others face-to-face. This is the best time ever to weed out heel-draggers.

False statement of the year!

 

[Steve Adams]

Saying negative things about people who “WFH” in general is acceptable. It’s when you personally attack people (MacRumors forum members) specifically that is the problem.

poor baby. Can't work from home and they are bitter....

 

[Steve Adams]

So people who are fortunate to have good jobs and salaries and benefits are "bad" to you? Maybe I should demand to cut my salary in half so I won't be "elitist." The comments denigrating the have nots only come when people who WFH are called lazy or that we watch TV all day. We don't.

Jealousy and Envy are strong things to overcome.

 

[bluecoast]

Has Gruber popped in with his awful take on this again yet?

Man who works from home making a living from writing about Apple, attacks those working for Apple, who want to work from home. Not a good look.

 

[bluecoast]

To those that are jeering to those at Apple who want something different to pre-Covid, I’d say that they’re wrong to do so.

There are very few era defining times in history where historians will look back and talk of ‘before’ and ‘after’ - and this is one of those times. A change has happened here.

So when people want to work from home, imho, what that are really saying is:

‘I don’t want the excessive commute time.

I want to bring up a family up without paying an eye wateringly high mortgage for a tiny home and/or high school fees etc and barely seeing my kids, as I’m spending 3-4 hours 5 days a week commuting’.

I contend that these people are NOT saying that they don’t want to work in an office ever again.

The solution then is pretty simple:

For companies like Apple to set up regional hubs in areas where tech workers are ‘migrating to’ i.e. in places like Oakland, with occasional trips to the mothership.

(I live in the uk and have never been to California so forgive me if I’ve got this area horribly wrong… But you get my point).

As for people bumping into each other in the corridor and serendipitously coming up with ground breaking business ideas…

Excuse me whilst I stifle my laughter.

This excuse is trotted out by sr management to justify people coming into the office.

In 20 years of working in offices, I’ve never seen this happen.

Good ideas come from a good corporate structure that stops organisational silos from developing & a good collaborative culture, imho.

Not from ‘hoping’ that people will come up with critically important business ideas in corridors 🙄.

 

[bluecoast]

You can’t honestly believe that the person in charge of Safari would have just magically changed their mind if everyone was physically at the office.

And IMO, Apple along with other companies need to slow down in general. Catalina was a massive issue, that was released and worked on without working from home. Big Sur started out very bad too. So Apple needs to stop and actually fix things.

This. I’d say that issues with Apple’s software seems more to do with cultural issues inside Apple.

- It is very marketing lead
- It adheres still to the ‘secrecy + impact = $millions of dollars of free marketing’ approach as pioneered under Steve Jobs.

Both, which I would contend worked better in simpler times ie in the 00s, but not now.

For example, the ‘impact’ that Apple seems to feel it has to have each year, to:

- announce all of that year’s iOS features at WWDC
- launch it all in September
- along with tethering that release to the new phones
- plus updating macOS etc at the same time.

Is obviously putting it under strain (Catalina and iOS 13).

And with the Pegasus affair - and even before this - it’s becoming obvious that Apple needs to take a break from rolling out too many new significant features and to take a security and stability first approach and rework what it has.

Saying that the new features will be rolled out through the next year - instead of all in the x.0 release would be helpful too.

I doubt that people are buying new phones because of feature y announced at WWDC - it’s because of the hardware exclusive features of the latest models.

So please step away from the marketing strategies of the 00s Apple and become more security and stability lead.