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Apple Employees Continue to Fight Return to Campuses and Push for Better Remote Working Options
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Apple apparently still has management that believes you are not working unless you are warming a chair at an office.
Don't think it's that easy to assume just yet. Online vendors took the legs out of brick and mortar stores, sure both can still survive but it's not like online shopping just magically went away.
Working for a company that has a massive remote WFH portion of the company this narrative of "promotions and raises being geared more towards in-office people" doesn't happen here. At other companies? Absolutely. Just how some companies have clear favoritism, lack of vertical growth in general, etc.
Companies evolve as does the workforce.
I see the F your feelings crowd is out in full force on this thread. Strange hill to die on but w/e.
It's going to be tough for those who quit their job to find employment if that is what everybody is doing, thinking they will find their dream job. Eventually this will all die down, is my guess.
And, soon, much less income when replaced by someone overseas who will work for a fraction of what Americans are paid.
Show us a legal document that states that a company is not allowed to drop a salary tier if an employee doesn't conform to the company's work requirements. BTW it's 100% legal that a company can fire an employee for any reason other than the employee not giving in to sexual favors or for race.
So coming to the office (frakking commute😩)and putting 3-4 hours worth of productive work and 4-5 hours watching YouTube and web browsing (I know how y'all office workers operate😏). Or putting in 3-4 hours of productive work from home and spending the rest of the time enjoying life with the wife and kids. What's the difference in productivity?
Y'all know, Europeans worker fewer hours than us 'Mericans and are as productive or more than us.
Edit: The only thing that should matter is worker productivity.
Well if that's the culture of the company they chose to work for then they have to comply.....I personally lead a global team and I don't have an issue where my direct reports sit as long as they meet the expectations (and most of them are really exceeding them). While my employer doesn't have an issue, if Apple does then it's their right to request the employees to show to the office - and the employees are fully in their right to seek for other opportunities for employment that meet their personal requirements.
Good opportunity for those other companies in the bay area looking for IT talent - high demand for those roles indeed.
Good opportunity for those other companies in the bay area looking for IT talent - high demand for those roles indeed.
And that's really the key here.
Apple may have to fire folks - so be it.
I suspect they don't want to, because they hire great people.
But people are not robots and they don't just "do whatever you want".
Apple has always been over controlling and that style and approach is finally meeting some justified resistance here in 2021 (long overdue).
Work in America needs to be more flexible and adaptive to the humans doing the work.
American work culture also needs to focus way more on productivity and actual output and not nearly as much on "time put in".
So much time is wasted and all at the expense of worker happiness, which ironically impacts output.
Hate to break this to you, but most of the workers at Apple are someone who knows how to use Excel. They work in HR, accounting, payroll, etc.
Yup .. these WFH people are going to get burned.
This is the crux of the matter - a bunch of people bet they could sell their expensive place, move to the country and continue to make Silicon Valley wages. Except - the music stopped. There are many things I think could be improved in the American workplace, but the employer absolutely has the right to tell you where the office is.
Where do you live? Did your school already make a decision on hybrid for the fall because I’m guessing they aren’t in school right now. Hopefully vaccines will be available this fall for younger children. 🤞
Really have not sympathy for the people complaining. If you want to continue WFH, you may need to find another job. You knew what housing cost when you moved there. It's not a surprise. What's surprising is the money you saved when you moved and no longer had to pay such high prices. Now you don't want to come back to that. Lol. - So instead, you're making it seem like Apple is being EVIL corp by not letting you have your cake AND eat it too!
I was one of the volunteers during Covid to come in every day during the pandemic. I usually only work from home if I absolutely have to.
But lets talk about working from home in general.
Yes me being here was super important because there were things that needed physical interaction (Labs, data center trips, etc.)
But 99% of my job is at my desk in front of my screens.
Now lets talk about the execs/upper management. I got to sit with them during the pandemic because there were so few of us. What did coming in do for me? They all think I'm the best thing ever because they brought everything to me even if it had nothing to do with me. You don't know? Go find out and get back to me. This carried over when everyone came back and my team thinks I'm getting special treatment. Not a great situation.
Lets talk about schedules. My commute was pretty consistent during the pandemic with less traffic 40mins (now its back to an hour plus each way). I usually planned my commute during morning meetings I could listen in on and made it very clear as soon as I'm on a meeting guess what I'm working mettings start daily at 8:30am. I come in around 10 and leave anywhere between 5-8pm depending on what's going on.
Fridays? Yeah I'm by myself by 2pm tops. Oh I have things to do I'm out.
Why would anything change when the rules don't apply? I watched the uppers watch videos and SpaceX launches on their screens, shop on Amazon, and plenty of other things unacceptable to the rest of us. Anytime they are in a conference room 99% of the time not working they are refinancing their house talking to their kids etc.
When they made the decision to come back to work the VP of the company flat out said I miss seeing something funny on the internet and not being about to turn around and talk about it to my peers. This was during a public town hall when someone directly asked why do we have to come back. They throw out buzz works like culture but give examples they are basically this is my social time and I'm sick of my family.
People can work from home. People are complaining then you can slack off etc. I don't know about the rest of you but there is work to be done. You either do the work or you don't. If I'm home and I have an hour dead spot and can go mow the lawn it should be good for me. I can tell you right now that hour dead spot isn't turning into work while I am at my desk at work. Just turning into lost time (go chat at the watercooler type thing). My job endlessly requires stuff at night multiple times a month. Does the company care that I didn't meal prep or get the lawn done because I was on a call from the time I got home at 7pm until 1:30am? No they don't they care the work is done. At least from home I could get something done in that hour plus commute time then get on that late call.
I'm lucky to have a manager that knows I saw how the rules don't apply so I get to be pretty flexible but its a joke that people think its so normal to be a slave and that people still believe you should sit at your desk for eight hours with zero contact to the outside world. Those days are gone and in those days once you left the office that was that. Work follows us 24/7 so there should be some flex on the other side of the equation.
I come into the office becuase I like the change of scenery. I get my work done and its not always while I'm at my desk at work. I have the highest reviews of my team because I get stuff done. It has nothing to do with schedule/location/etc. A lot of my best work is done after 5pm and guess what its because there are not a bunch of side chats and drive by requests going on.
But lets talk about working from home in general.
Yes me being here was super important because there were things that needed physical interaction (Labs, data center trips, etc.)
But 99% of my job is at my desk in front of my screens.
Now lets talk about the execs/upper management. I got to sit with them during the pandemic because there were so few of us. What did coming in do for me? They all think I'm the best thing ever because they brought everything to me even if it had nothing to do with me. You don't know? Go find out and get back to me. This carried over when everyone came back and my team thinks I'm getting special treatment. Not a great situation.
Lets talk about schedules. My commute was pretty consistent during the pandemic with less traffic 40mins (now its back to an hour plus each way). I usually planned my commute during morning meetings I could listen in on and made it very clear as soon as I'm on a meeting guess what I'm working mettings start daily at 8:30am. I come in around 10 and leave anywhere between 5-8pm depending on what's going on.
Fridays? Yeah I'm by myself by 2pm tops. Oh I have things to do I'm out.
Why would anything change when the rules don't apply? I watched the uppers watch videos and SpaceX launches on their screens, shop on Amazon, and plenty of other things unacceptable to the rest of us. Anytime they are in a conference room 99% of the time not working they are refinancing their house talking to their kids etc.
When they made the decision to come back to work the VP of the company flat out said I miss seeing something funny on the internet and not being about to turn around and talk about it to my peers. This was during a public town hall when someone directly asked why do we have to come back. They throw out buzz works like culture but give examples they are basically this is my social time and I'm sick of my family.
People can work from home. People are complaining then you can slack off etc. I don't know about the rest of you but there is work to be done. You either do the work or you don't. If I'm home and I have an hour dead spot and can go mow the lawn it should be good for me. I can tell you right now that hour dead spot isn't turning into work while I am at my desk at work. Just turning into lost time (go chat at the watercooler type thing). My job endlessly requires stuff at night multiple times a month. Does the company care that I didn't meal prep or get the lawn done because I was on a call from the time I got home at 7pm until 1:30am? No they don't they care the work is done. At least from home I could get something done in that hour plus commute time then get on that late call.
I'm lucky to have a manager that knows I saw how the rules don't apply so I get to be pretty flexible but its a joke that people think its so normal to be a slave and that people still believe you should sit at your desk for eight hours with zero contact to the outside world. Those days are gone and in those days once you left the office that was that. Work follows us 24/7 so there should be some flex on the other side of the equation.
I come into the office becuase I like the change of scenery. I get my work done and its not always while I'm at my desk at work. I have the highest reviews of my team because I get stuff done. It has nothing to do with schedule/location/etc. A lot of my best work is done after 5pm and guess what its because there are not a bunch of side chats and drive by requests going on.
Any valuable employee that was seriously planning to quit has already quit and gotten a job at another company, possibly with a pay raise. The folks left don’t like their direct manager (who is personally responsible for whether or not they work remotely) and want the leaders to override their manager’s decision. I think the likelihood of this override is low because no one knows better than each specific manager whether or not their team can work effectively remote AND has taken steps with their WFH setup to ensure a low likelihood of data disclosure.
"She said that in-person collaboration is "essential" to Apple's culture and future."
LOL, I doubt it. I'll bet even when on campus, most use teleconferencing.
LOL, I doubt it. I'll bet even when on campus, most use teleconferencing.
My biggest issue is the CEO is deciding who and which days people work in the office.
To be honest, there are whole departments who plop in their chair, put on their headphones and never get up the entire day. Those folks don't go to meetings, don't interact, and don't make decisions. Big companies have more worker bees than those who deliberate, meet and make face.
All those worker bees should be free to be antisocial and work on their computers from anywhere they like.
And those worker bees are also probably the most expensive to employ. They ride the busses, they eat the food, they use the laundry service. The managers probably drive, start early and stay late, and eat like rabbits
To be honest, there are whole departments who plop in their chair, put on their headphones and never get up the entire day. Those folks don't go to meetings, don't interact, and don't make decisions. Big companies have more worker bees than those who deliberate, meet and make face.
All those worker bees should be free to be antisocial and work on their computers from anywhere they like.
And those worker bees are also probably the most expensive to employ. They ride the busses, they eat the food, they use the laundry service. The managers probably drive, start early and stay late, and eat like rabbits
And then after being told no, then what?
Schools in the bay area, kids are back in. They were either going half days 4 days a week or full days 3 days a week.
Either way, it's way more complicated than it used to be.
Thankfully everyone has about 3 weeks of sick time to use while shuttling their kids around.
AKA, the Wallys of the Dilbert comic strip.
At my company which fosters a remote work environment, your salary can get adjusted to reflect the location you're based out of. So if you were previously living and making SF wages then decide to move to Anchorage, your salary may be adjusted to reflect that.
Why? My work sold its headquarters, made tons of money, and remained productive throughout 2020. They demanded all managers come back to the office only to offer a hybrid solution a few months later. It’s a great benefit. Why is everyone so eager to return to a “normal” of commuting five days a week to sit in an office doing work that could be done from everywhere. Have employees in the office a few consecutive days and leadership can stop its pearl clutching over “culture.”
I can't figure it out either.
I think some people are bosses themselves and just can't handle the idea of a world without having "physical control" over people.
Others maybe are stuck at companies that aren't offering anything on the WFH front and they are a combination of jealous and angry and don't want anything good for anyone else as a result?
And finally - I think some people see this as a left/right thing and are here to troll anything even remotely progressive.