Apple Executive Greg Joswiak Dismisses Planned Obsolescence as 'Craziest Thinking in the World'

[bokdol]

What about when newer ones speed up your phone? Did that segment of the iOS team miss the Planned Obsolescence Memo for that month?

There are specific new features in iOS 12 for both faster performance and lower app memory usage. Sounds downright diabolical, right?

Do you have the benchmarks to prove this claim of speed. Whats diabloical is slowing peoples phones down and not telling anyone why. Whats also diablolical is after slowing peoples phones down not letting them reset it back to an older os,

 

[Keirasplace]

Because people are weird.

These people are NOT actively using Apple products, they only claim they do (or recently did) as a premise to trolling.
The existence of those countless counterfactual conspiracy theories cements this.
There is a whole segment of the internet which "thrives on this".

 

[I7guy]

So you are trying to deflect now. LoL
You claimed that because Windows 10 works on old computers it's just a skinned version of XP, that's completely wrong.

And off the top of my head I can give a few examples of things Windows 10 can do while XP can't:
It can boot much faster
It's arhitecturaly more secure
It can run on ARM SOCs
It better uses hardware resources like modern multicore CPUs, SSDs, higher RAM quantities
Facial recognition
UWP apps
Tablet mode
Notifications
Gaming mode

and so on

There are a crazy amount of under the hood difference between W10 and XP. Or you want to deny this more than obvious fact and stick with your ideea that it's just a "skinned version"?

Lol, just throwing the (red) herrings back to the sea where they belong.

As far as your list about the only thing worthy is facial recognition and even then that is limited. That list is nothing to show for 15 years between xp and 10.
My original point was about things windows xp can’t do and that list doesn’t prove the point.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[ROGmaster]

Lol, just throwing the (red) herrings back to the sea where they belong.

As far as your list about the only thing worthy is facial recognition and even then that is limited. That list is nothing to show for 15 years between xp and 10.
My original point was about things windows xp can’t do and that list doesn’t prove the point.

LoL so now you have a problem with my list that proves that your claim is wrong. Like I said those are just a few things off the top of my head not the only differences like you are now trying to imply.

Thanks for proving my point.

Why would you believe that I did that? LoL

 

[I7guy]

LoL so now you have a problem with my list that proves that your claim is wrong. Like I said those are just a few things off the top of my head not the only differences like you are now trying to imply.


Why would you believe that I did that? LoL

Lol, the list is all UI differences except for facial recognition, which was excepted in my original post. Basically you proved the point that Microsoft took 15 years to come up with some negligible differences and Apple manages to shove 100s of noticeable improvements in every iOS release.

 

[terpsbball2002]

Has this guy used iOS 11 on an older device? It basically rendered my ipad air 2 useless.

 

[Abazigal]

Has this guy used iOS 11 on an older device? It basically rendered my ipad air 2 useless.

My school has a small supply of iPad Air 2 running iOS 11 and they are certainly far from useless.

 

[ROGmaster]

Lol, the list is all UI differences except for facial recognition, which was excepted in my original post. Basically you proved the point that Microsoft took 15 years to come up with some negligible differences and Apple manages to shove 100s of noticeable improvements in every iOS release.

Most of the things I listed are not UI related.
And again I listed them because you said there is nothing W10 can do that XP can't. The only intention of thta list was to prove that this exact claim is wrong which was quite a trivial thing to do(its easy to prove wrong baseless absurd claimes).

Also why are you pretending that W10 was an update to XP very disingenuously claiming that it took Microsoft 15 years to come out with new features?

It I would ask you to prove that W10 is just a skinned version of XP I bet thta you wouldn't be able to do it. This would be the limit of your trolling attempt.

 

[I7guy]

Most of the things I listed are not UI related.
And again I listed them because you said there is nothing W10 can do that XP can't. The only intention of thta list was to prove that this exact claim is wrong which was quite a trivial thing to do(its easy to prove wrong baseless absurd claimes).

Also why are you pretending that W10 was an update to XP very disingenuously claiming that it took Microsoft 15 years to come out with new features?

It I would ask you to prove that W10 is just a skinned version of XP I bet thta you wouldn't be able to do it. This would be the limit of your trolling attempt.

Windows xp ran on tablets. Windows xp supported games and I’m sure there was some form of third party facial recognition for windows xp. And again, I said all ui differences excepted. So to be pedantic in 15 years there are two things windows 10 can do that windows xp can’t. Point proven.

That brings us full circle to planned obsolescence if which it is proved Apple never engaged in either.

 

[dk001]

...
If the intention for example was to reduce production cost and the side effect was that people bought new Macs because the old ones were difficult to repair, you would not have PLANNED obsolesence, but maybe UNPLANNED obsolescence.

I think the term is Engineered obsolescence vs. planned obsolescence or taking advantage of a situation to leverage opportunistic obsolescence.

For the majority of the iOS slowdown issues, if the version was not optimized for older devices and Apple took advantage of this to enhance device upgrades ....
[doublepost=1528473366][/doublepost]

As much as I support being able to install whatever version, Apple can certainly have valid potential reasons from their side of things to not provide downgrading abilities that don't involve any particular conspiracies.

I wish we knew the real reason downgrading is not allowed.
My ex has her 7 on 10.3.3 and her Mini4 on 11.4. More than a few times she wished she could roll her Mini4 back to 10.3.3. In her words “too many issues with 11”. I suspect she is not alone in this.

 

[ROGmaster]

Windows xp ran on tablets. Windows xp supported games and I’m sure there was some form of third party facial recognition for windows xp. And again, I said all ui differences excepted. So to be pedantic in 15 years there are two things windows 10 can do that windows xp can’t. Point proven.

That brings us full circle to planned obsolescence if which it is proved Apple never engaged in either.

Wait is this your attempt to prove W10 is just a skinned version of XP? LoL this is getting absurd.
I don't understand why you keep answering, do you actually believe that the absurd claims you made and which you obviously can't support are correct?

What does XP ran on tables and supported games suppose to mean? That W10 is a skinned version of XP?
What type of 3rd party facial recognition did XP support?

And again you claimed there is nothing W10 can do that XP can't. I simply proved that is incorrect so I don't understand why we are still talking about the things I listed.

 

[C DM]

I think the term is Engineered obsolescence vs. planned obsolescence or taking advantage of a situation to leverage opportunistic obsolescence.

For the majority of the iOS slowdown issues, if the version was not optimized for older devices and Apple took advantage of this to enhance device upgrades ....
[doublepost=1528473366][/doublepost]

I wish we knew the real reason downgrading is not allowed.
My ex has her 7 on 10.3.3 and her Mini4 on 11.4. More than a few times she wished she could roll her Mini4 back to 10.3.3. In her words “too many issues with 11”. I suspect she is not alone in this.

One of the more likely ones is basically security, along with the related part of it that they can mainly focus on supporting the latest version and not deal with issues from different versions that might have still have more people on them, which goes together with being able to provide a more homogenous development platform by simplifying things for developers in that sense.

Again, that's not to say that not providing a way to downgrade is really advantageous for end users (although some aspects of what I mentioned above have some general benefits all around), but more that there can very well be reasons for it all from Apple's side that don't involve some malicious conspiracy to upset users enough that they would decide to spend more money with a company that they are so upset with.

 

[I7guy]

Wait is this your attempt to prove W10 is just a skinned version of XP? LoL this is getting absurd.
I don't understand why you keep answering, do you actually believe that the absurd claims you made and which you obviously can't support are correct?

What does XP ran on tables and supported games suppose to mean? That W10 is a skinned version of XP?
What type of 3rd party facial recognition did XP support?

And again you claimed there is nothing W10 can do that XP can't. I simply proved that is incorrect so I don't understand why we are still talking about the things I listed.

Lol. This is absurd. You didn’t negate my proof that windows 10 isn’t a reskinned version of windows xp. Oh I’ll give you security patches and all that, but functionally my comment still stands. If your going to claim one or two items you prove my point that 15 years later Microsoft gave one or two features to a 5th generation o/s.

 

[ROGmaster]

Lol. This is absurd. You didn’t negate my proof that windows 10 isn’t a reskinned version of windows xp. Oh I’ll give you security patches and all that, but functionally my comment still stands.

You didn't prove anything.
In what world: Windows xp ran on tablets. Windows xp supported games and I’m sure there was some form of third party facial recognition for windows xp = proof that Windows 10 is just a skinned version of Windows XP?

If your going to claim one or two items you prove my point that 15 years later Microsoft gave one or two features to a 5th generation o/s.

And for the last time I only posted that list to show that your claim that: there is nothing W10 can do that XP can't is FALSE. That is all so stop acting like that list = All the difference between W10 and XP after 15 years. Do you have some mental problems or something? I'm seriously starting to wonder.

Again from a factual point of view claiming that Windows 10 is just a skinned version of Windows XP is absolutely ridiculous and completely not true.

https://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/31048.architecture-of-windows-10.aspx

 

[I7guy]

You didn't prove anything.
In what world: Windows xp ran on tablets. Windows xp supported games and I’m sure there was some form of third party facial recognition for windows xp = proof that Windows 10 is just a skinned version of Windows XP?


And for the last time I only posted that list to show that your claim that: there is nothing W10 can do that XP can't is FALSE. That is all so stop acting like that list = All the difference between W10 and XP after 15 years. Do you have some mental problems or something? I'm seriously starting to wonder.

Again from a factual point of view claiming that Windows 10 is just a skinned version of Windows XP is absolutely ridiculous and completely not true.

https://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/31048.architecture-of-windows-10.aspx

You still haven’t negated my original assertion. 15 years and Microsoft added facial recognition? And that’s the differentiator?

 

[dk001]

Lol. This is absurd. You didn’t negate my proof that windows 10 isn’t a reskinned version of windows xp. Oh I’ll give you security patches and all that, but functionally my comment still stands. If your going to claim one or two items you prove my point that 15 years later Microsoft gave one or two features to a 5th generation o/s.

Nice tennis match.
I’m still awaiting proof that W10 is a reskinned XP ...

 

[NT1440]

I wish we knew the real reason downgrading is not allowed.
My ex has her 7 on 10.3.3 and her Mini4 on 11.4. More than a few times she wished she could roll her Mini4 back to 10.3.3. In her words “too many issues with 11”. I suspect she is not alone in this.

In a world major security flaws are discovered nearly every day do you really need to ask that question?

 

[ROGmaster]

You still haven’t negated my original assertion.

LoL what original assertion?
Where is the proof that W10 is just a reskinned XP?

15 years and Microsoft added facial recognition? And that’s the differentiator?

What's with this 15 years? what does it mean? 15 years after XP release?
I don't understand what does Windows Hello have to do with Windows XP, it doesn't make any sense.
Windows Hello is one of the first biometrics-based facial unlock technology available on the consumer market. Microsoft also introduced Iris Scanning with their Windows 10 Mobile before any other notable phone manufactures(obviously I'm taking about Samsung).
By contrast Macs don't support anything similar with Windows Hello. What do you make of this?
And why do you keep pushing the hole "it took Microsoft 15 to introduce features" thing? It doesn't make any sense.

 

[I7guy]

You still haven’t negated my original assertion. 15 years and Microsoft added facial recognition? And that’s the differentiator?

LoL what original assertion?
Where is the proof that W10 is just a reskinned XP?



What's with this 15 years? what does it mean? 15 years after XP release?
I don't understand what does Windows Hello have to do with Windows XP, it doesn't make any sense.
Windows Hello is one of the first biometrics-based facial unlock technology available on the consumer market. Microsoft also introduced Iris Scanning with their Windows 10 Mobile before any other notable phone manufactures(obviously I'm taking about Samsung).
By contrast Macs don't support anything similar with Windows Hello. What do you make of this?
And why do you keep pushing the hole "it took Microsoft 15 to introduce features" thing? It doesn't make any sense.

While you are doing a good job of not disproving windows 10 is a repackaged windows xp this is “in my humble opinion”. Not sure where there is a disconnect in that how long did it take Microsoft (15 years) to add meaningful features to windows, or the deflection on Macs.

Anyway ping, pong.

 

[ROGmaster]

While you are doing a good job of not disproving windows 10 is a repackaged windows xp this is “in my humble opinion”.

Well then your "humble opinion" is totally incorrect. That's why you simply can't and never moved an inch to support it in any way. I mean I could say: "In my opinion Earth is flat". Would I be right? Or would it be just an absurd thing I said?

But anyway actually you said: Windows 10 is a reskinned Windows XP, which is why it installs on older hardware.
I don't see any "in my humble opinion" there. So you stated it as a fact not an opinion.
You even compared the introduction of Windows 10 with the "iOS 12 strategy" which is again simply absurd and not true.
Also I posted above a link which clearly shows how absurd your hole windows 10 is a repackaged windows xp idea is.

Not sure where there is a disconnect in that how long did it take Microsoft (15 years) to add meaningful features to windows, or the deflection on Macs.

Microsoft constantly added meaningful features to Windows(I don't understand how anybody could negate this fact). Windows Vista, 7 and 8 were all huge changes.
Simply by posting a Wiki link to Vista would ridicule this notion that "it took Microsoft 15 years to add meaningful features to windows".

Also you stopped at the facial unlock as one of the few meaningful features Microsoft introduced(one of the only 2 as you put it) while Apple by comparison does it better so I don't see how I'm defecting by mentioning Macs.
Anyway Windows is one of the very few X86 OSs that supports facial unlock based biometrics. So what do you think about the fact that Mac don't have anything similar with Windows Hello?

 

[I7guy]

Well then your "humble opinion" is totally incorrect. That's why you simply can't and never moved an inch to support it in any way. I mean I could say: "In my opinion Earth is flat". Would I be right? Or would it be just an absurd thing I said?

But anyway actually you said: Windows 10 is a reskinned Windows XP, which is why it installs on older hardware.
I don't see any "in my humble opinion" there. So you stated it as a fact not an opinion.
You even compared the introduction of Windows 10 with the "iOS 12 strategy" which is again simply absurd and not true.
Also I posted above a link which clearly shows how absurd your hole windows 10 is a repackaged windows xp idea is.




Microsoft constantly added meaningful features to Windows(I don't understand how anybody could negate this fact). Windows Vista, 7 and 8 were all huge changes.
Simply by posting a Wiki link to Vista would ridicule this notion that "it took Microsoft 15 years to add meaningful features to windows".

Also you stopped at the facial unlock as one of the few meaningful features Microsoft introduced(one of the only 2 as you put it) while Apple by comparison does it better so I don't see how I'm defecting by mentioning Macs.
Anyway Windows is one of the very few X86 OSs that supports facial unlock based biometrics. So what do you think about the fact that Mac don't have anything similar with Windows Hello?

An opinion is never incorrect and you proved my opinion is more true than false. So there’s that. And as you stand by and keep repeating your side so do I.

In what way was windows vista a huge leap for consumers?

 

[ROGmaster]

An opinion is never incorrect and you proved my opinion is more true than false. So there’s that. And as you stand by and keep repeating your side so do I.

Sure it is(I even exemplified above how). And like I proved, your actually stated it as a fact not an opinion.
Your attempts to try to have the last word no matter what are getting absolutely ridiculous.

and you proved my opinion is more true than false.

I never proved anything remotely close to that.

In what way was windows vista a huge leap for consumers?

What does a huge leap for consumers mean? Because at this point I'm suspecting that I can simply say absolutely anything and you will disapprove it because your "opinions can never be wrong", and you don't even have to support them in any way . LoL

 

[dk001]

In a world major security flaws are discovered nearly every day do you really need to ask that question?

Yes.
If the new updates were properly optimized for older devices I could see that.
A better solution would be to add security updates and roll out to older devices as a X.y.z update.

"for proper security update your device now ... we apologize if this slows your device to a crawl or adds new instabilities (aka bugs) and appreciate your understanding ... " aka - suck it up buttercup - live with it or buy Android.

 

[Unimpossible]

And yet still not something that is "useless" for everyone.

(And interestingly enough when Apple decides to drop support for some older devices when a new update comes out likely because the update wouldn't run well on it, then essentially the same people call that "planned obsolescence" as well, while if they keep supporting an older/weaker device for longer than it should be and it doesn't perform well then it's also "planned obsoleteness". Damned if you, damned if you don't. And surely it makes total sense for Apple to maliciously do things that would make the experience worse, because upsetting users is what gets them to stay with you and keep on getting more and more from you, right?)

Why are you so hung up on the word "everyone"? Is that your issue with this? That a select few has a usable iPad 2 with iOS 9?
I certainly never said "everyone". Although I've not found any evidence of a smooth and fast iPad 2 with iOS 9.

And the issue is not that an iPad 2 can't run an unsupported version of iOS.
The issue is that it runs so crappy on a supported version.

If you still don't get it. I don't think I can help you anymore.

 

[C DM]

Why are you so hung up on the word "everyone"? Is that your issue with this? That a select few has a usable iPad 2 with iOS 9?
I certainly never said "everyone". Although I've not found any evidence of a smooth and fast iPad 2 with iOS 9.

And the issue is not that an iPad 2 can't run an unsupported version of iOS.
The issue is that it runs so crappy on a supported version.

If you still don't get it. I don't think I can help you anymore.

You called it useless. Someone said it wasn't for them. You called that anecdotal. I pointed out that the original statement is no less anecdotal in what it said. Not sure what doesn't hold up there.