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Apple Expects Appeal of Irish Tax Ruling to Take 'Several Years' With No Impact on Near-Term Financial Results
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Ireland was in deep economic **** a few decades ago. They needed to level the playing field. This is how they did that. The EU wants an unlevel playing field, like the good old days.
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What about the others that are even worse but don't make the news because Apple in the headline gets the ad views that pay the rent?
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Debt is quite cheap today. Might be good investment.Can Apple just buy Europe and then give themselves the cash?
haha. Just kidding. Who would want all that debt....
Long term.
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Trading tax incentives or other state investments for jobs is quite common and perfectly legal.
The State of New York is building $1B factories in the state and leasing them for $1 a year in exchange for thousands of jobs.
It's a huge windfall for the state in personal income tax, property taxes, economic spending, etc from the thousands of employees.
Ireland has done the same thing - incentivizing Apple and getting 6000 good paying jobs in return - with all the benefits those incomes provide.
The tax incentive pales in comparison to the value.
The State of New York is building $1B factories in the state and leasing them for $1 a year in exchange for thousands of jobs.
It's a huge windfall for the state in personal income tax, property taxes, economic spending, etc from the thousands of employees.
Ireland has done the same thing - incentivizing Apple and getting 6000 good paying jobs in return - with all the benefits those incomes provide.
The tax incentive pales in comparison to the value.
Why would they loose a manufacturing or research job because apple changed its virtual accounting to another country?
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No dozens of billions of EU aid mainly helped ireland, apple paying no taxes does very little.
No, the subsidiary we are talking about ASI has almost no employees.
This isnt investing to have a factory there, this is all the worldwide sales(except america's) routed through a special designed subsidiary to pay almost no taxes. It brings almost no employment or profits to ireland.
The problem with your argument is that vast majority of Apple IP is in hands of one of the fake Irish HQ's. As I have understood this is so that they can skip on paying US taxes and with arrangement of Irish government also the normal Irish corporate tax. According to Business Insider Apple is expected to pay $181 billion taxes to US federal government and the 14 billion to EU. So you see, there good reason to evade EU tax and gargantuan reason to evade US taxes.
The full report I heard from several sources is:
Apple was offered a very low tax rate to base in Ireland, so Apple is based in Ireland and pays the taxes it is billed for (0.005% effective rate , (corrected after reading BaldiMac post)).
EU hates these special rates, and they are going after Ireland, and picked on Apple because they are the biggest, wealthiest, most visible target.
Basically it is Ireland vs EU.
Apple is just caught in middle.
Ironically, it has been reports, that if Apple does have to pay, Apple can then claim it as a business loss and deduct it from its US taxes!
Apple will not loose 1 cent in taxes to anyone, and the US is short $14 billion in its tax income.
Apple does the exact same tax game all other big multinational companies do.
It's not Apples fault, its a tax and law system that favors the big organizations.
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Except they aren't "skipping" paying U.S. taxes, nor are they evading them. The profits that are in limbo from the double irish arrangement are taxable by the U.S. However, the U.S. doesn't tax them until the funds are repatriated. Essentially, Apple is legally deferring payment on U.S. taxes until a more favorable tax situation arises.
Agree, there is little employment.
BUT it is what thousands of companies do, and of all those companies Apple was targeted to try and stop the practice. It is a bad situation all around, but no one is legally at fault.
The 800 Gorilla does what it wants when it wants. Including the sales of old tech products like the iPhone equipped with an old low resolution display...
No. There are no special rates for Apple. The .005% rate is an effective rate. Based on the fact that the EU thinks that Ireland should not allow Apple to allocate such a large percentage of their European profits to what is essentially the main U.S. corporation. Apple pays 12.5% on the profits that they attribute to their Irish corporation, just like any other Irish corporation.
And yet, according to current tax laws, all perfectly legal.
Just saying
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Yes, effective , correcting.
As said on Market Place and ABC news, in brief Apple participates in this shell game like hundreds of others to be competitive. The issue is the laws, not trying to cheat a government of paying taxes due.
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yup, let's just let all corporations lobby until their tax rates are 0, passing the buck to all of us.
But at least it's not as bad as Samsung, or Google.The 800 Gorilla does what it wants when it wants. Including the sales of old tech products like the iPhone equipped with an old low resolution display...
No several are targeted apple is just the biggest and has benefited the most and longest.
And the act itself is not illegal that is correct, its just that perhaps at the time when apple was strugling when it got first to ireland it was justified (80's) now it isnt any more and its pure gov subdidies for apple. Something that isnt legal.
Hence no fines, apple just needs to pay the back owned taxes .
Chastise Safari's grammar not mine. I'm well aware of how to spell 'sleight' thank you very much.
Remember what Mark Twain had to say about statistics and the like. You haven't forgotten the Scots have you?
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Can you - would you like to explain in actual fiscal detail then how all this works because I don't think you have the first clue given your post, not the first clue.
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At the end of the day this was all a fiscal smoke and mirrors operation on the promise of a lot of jobs for Irish workers providing the Irish authorities didn't look to closely at Apple's tax affairs. As part of the EU Ireland simply could not do this, they must have known that sooner or later they were going to get rumbled.
Apple aren't the only corporation the EU are battling. Microsoft have already been fined heavily in the past for anti-competitive practices, Google have already had a shot fired across their bows and Amazon are likely to be next.
This is good for the small guy in the street so I don't know why people are rushing to defend Apple. I'm all for getting people to pay their taxes, especially big business.
You are allowed to do the math how much tax rebate was given for every job and if that money was spent well.
Taking into account 6,000 Apple related jobs I think 2 million euro per job is quite an investment that never was recovered.
Then taking into account that part of my paid tax as a German was transferred to poor Ireland so they can shove it up several corporates ... I feel mandated to express my concern.
I am not going to argue with you about an obvious fact. I suggest you view the CNBC videos of the Ireland Finance Minister, and Treasury Secretary, and the President's spokesman comments, themselves.
In the event this survives appeals and political posturing, the monies Apple pays is deducted from their tax due for the corresponding years so it is a direct reach thru to US taxpayers (Treasury) by EU on behalf of Ireland, which if they receive it MUST use it for deficit reduction, not current budgets.
If the precedent survives they will certainly do this for many other companies in this and other countries, as a means to reduce European deficits at the expense of United States of America citizens.
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Jeepers, does anybody else notice what happens in the 30 seconds after she says "Member states can not give unfair tax advantages to individual companies..." 1:20 to 2mn or so
Not exactly. From what I understand from the media reports, the Irish tax authorities confirmed that it were legal. The European Commission thinks that it was not, according to Ireland's own laws.
Normally, that would not matter: If the competent authorities declare something legal, it is. However, if a financial benefit amounts to a State aid, it requires the Commission's approval, which has neither been requested nor granted.
This also means that Apple has done nothing wrong. Ireland has, by granting illegal State aids. Still, Apple has to pay. That's harsh but there is no other way: If the recipient could keep illegal State aids, States could simply continue giving them.
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Er, no. The EU wants Apple to pay the money to Ireland.
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