Apple Faces Another iPhone Lawsuit Over 'Programmed Obsolescence'

[insoft.uk]

Apple is guilty, they could just allow users to install what version of iOS they like tho are prevented and so if they find the update sluggish there only option is to buy a new phone, if Apple was forced to allow choice of iOS they would be no law suite and users would be happy and even happier to buy a new iPhone if they want that latest iOS that their phone just can't handle.

Apple forces it's users to upgrade iOS, as it forces developers to support the latest iOS and forbids support for older iOSs so if users don't upgrade they will soon find out their favourite app can't be downloaded as they require a higher iOS version.

 

[darngooddesign]

But, on the bright side, older devices still work well if you don't try to make them work better by upgrading.

If Apple didn’t constantly pester users to upgrade, and allowed you to downgrade to your backup if you accidentally press the wrong thing in that upgrade prompt, then staying on your current OS would be easy. So technically you are correct that you can stay with your current OS, but Apple does everything it can to get people to upgrade with no recourse if you accidentally upgrade or decide that you dont like the upgrade.

Compare it to MacOS where I saw an “Upgrade to Big Sur” alert once and then the only reminder was a red badge in System Prefs.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Why not a flat fee of a buck a month for operating system upgrades after the first year?

Because it sounds like a subscription and you probably have an idea of what many folks think about subscriptions

 

[I7guy]

Not really, with build-in side loading you can offer Apps to any Android version that ever existed.
It's called, backporting features.

You can do the same with IOS. But the broader question is: who is going to build an app for an older version of ios, especially when the majority of phones sold in the last few years have a recent ios version on them.

 

[deevey]

Apple is guilty, they could just allow users to install what version of iOS they like tho are prevented and so if they find the update sluggish there only option is to buy a new phone, if Apple was forced to allow choice of iOS they would be no law suite and users would be happy and even happier to buy a new iPhone if they want that latest iOS that their phone just can't handle.

Apple forces it's users to upgrade iOS, as it forces developers to support the latest iOS and forbids support for older iOSs so if users don't upgrade they will soon find out their favourite app can't be downloaded as they require a higher iOS version.

Or apple could simply disallow iOS updates to devices that cant handle it ... oh wait.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

The expression "you can fool some of the people...." comes to mind. But if one believes Apple has fooled the majority of their customers, maybe it's not the majority of their customers that are really fooled.

Lmao imagine thinking macrumors is the majority of apple device owners. Ya lemme hop onto forums.microsoft and see how they feel about windows vista oh wow they all love it for some reason that’s odd

 

[darngooddesign]

Basically Apple forces you to get a new device every 5 or 6 years and android forces you to get a new device every 2 or 3 years. Why Apple pushes updates is so they don't end up like Microsoft Windows and Intel, which is having to support code going back 20+ years.

But other than they above the above is circumstantial.

Not providing OS updates is not forcing you to get a new device.

 

[BKDad]

Try to "Connect the dots - Steve Jobs" even more, and look at this from the business point of view, it's a huge dependency hell (aka. eco system) build to solely drive the profits up and make customers dependant, it's hard to recognise that, and not everybody has this ability.

Apps tied to iOS, iOS updates to hardware, Apps tied to the AppStore and iOS versions.
To publish to AppStore Apple enforces a higher iOS/Xcode versions, which makes older Apps incompatible or crashy.
At the same time they disallow App Upgrades(not updates!), this drives devs to subscription business model, Apple loves subscriptions $$$.
At the same time they disallow side loading, and keep interlocking more business types, Apple Services, iOS Versions etc.
At the same time this all drives people to buy a newer iPhone, and if they notice that a iPhone is being used for too long, they remove the support or gently lower performance, but in a way customers don't blame the iPhone, but they got caught recently. SURE, just a bug.. lol

If I had time, I would build an Apple dependancy hell UML diagram of this, it would become massive and clearly visible, how all is cleverly tied together, just to drive profits up and to fool people.

That all may well be true, but in and of itself, you can't therefore prove that Apple deliberately made changes in the design to degrade performance as a way to make older devices not work. That may be the practical outcome of their actions, but the same would be true of newspapers that don't have last Tuesday's edition on sale, too. OK, pretend that newspapers were still a thing.

In any case, I'd love to know what laws they may have broken by acting this way. Making people feel disappointed is not against the law, as far as I know.

I'd love even to know that there are laws that protect the consumer in some way. Getting $10 for settlement does not do that. (BTW, for somebody who commented on this, even if the law firms get 50 cents for each customer who receives the settlement, that adds up to a huge sum just because of the numbers. That's only a five percent premium.)

These are hard problems. There appears to be some potential solutions, but Apple seems uninterested in pursuing them. They probably have a reason, good or bad.

 

[jonnyb098]

Somebody who has more insight into this than I explained to me that Apple engineers don't want to do optimization. They want to do cool new stuff, however that's defined. So, that's what they do. That probably is true for their engineering managers, too. Plus, the way the company's culture is, keeping old products working their best is not a step forward and doesn't deliver profit or the expectation of profit, which is what drives stock prices. At least that's the perception.

Given the amount of time these folks devote to their jobs, it's not surprising that they might be a bit insulated from average customers.

I think what blows my mind more is that the people who make this software dont seem to notice/care about obvious bugs? I can spot this stuff (as many others can around here ) within minutes or hours of major updates.I understand nothing will ever be perfect but busting things that were already working fine is what my beef is. People constantly repeat the broken record "did you report it?" Yes, people have been reporting bugs with iOS 14 for months that were never addressed in the public release in sept let alone today. I beg to ask what the point of the public beta program was. THE SOFTWARE IS GETTING WORSE!

 

[BKDad]

Because it sounds like a subscription and you probably have an idea of what many folks think about subscriptions

True, but at least it's clear and people could choose.

That might be better than getting the heave after X years or having no recourse with regard to severe bugs.

Under that scheme, nobody would be forced to upgrade, either.

 

[Wildkraut]

You can do the same with IOS. But the broader question is: who is going to build an app for an older version of ios, especially when the majority of phones sold in the last few years have a recent ios version on them.

No, you can't sideload on iOS, the only official way is though the AppStore, but that route got closed on purpose.
Yeah they claim that they have a recent iOS version, because all the older iPhones got hit by programmed obsolesce, and they just fell out of Apples iOS statistics. There still are plenty of iPhone 5/5s/6 out there, they are still working, and as a developer there is no way to offer a newer App versions to these iPhone owners. For sure releasing a heavy graphics game makes no sense, but there are many type of Apps & Games that would still work great on these devices.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Couldn't care less.

Yeah ok, and one wonders why Siri is so useless...

 

[Coheebuzz]

What a joke, "performance throttling" is in every single piece of technology in one form of another.

In case Apple loses the lawyer should drop his pants, let out the most epic fart and say “sorry folks, fart throttling to context-appropriate levels will get us sued” .

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Perhaps Amazon does not want it to be installed and Apple does, so the fault lies with Amazon. But then why does Amazon support the Nexus 6 Audible App via the Play store? What benefit does Amazon gain by limiting availability of Audible on older iDevices ??

You’d really have to ask Amazon. Companies can, and do, make decisions on what they want to spend money to support all of the time. Apple determines which systems they want to support with OS upgrades and companies with iOS apps determine which devices and OS’s they want to support. If enough folks with iPhone 6’s demanded it, you can bet it’d be available tomorrow. My guess is that Amazon has looked at their numbers and determined that it’s not worth supporting anyone on any devices that won’t run iOS 13.

Anyway, always interesting to post something anti-Tim Apple on MR.

That was supposed to be anti-Tim Apple? It came off more like “I don’t understand software in general.”

 

[ani4ani]

What sucks is, I’ll bet apple never intended for it to be this way. Seems like they were actually trying to prolong the device usage and help folks with old batteries still be able to use the device. Some engineers didn’t think about legal stuff of the court of public opinion. Hope they were fired.

They absolutely were trying to prolong the device usage....just long enough to get beyond the warranty...just long enough for folks to be looking at the next Apple trinket without grievance with their current phone.

 

[BKDad]

I think what blows my mind more is that the people who make this software dont seem to notice/care about obvious bugs? I can spot this stuff (as many others can around here ) within minutes or hours of major updates.I understand nothing will ever be perfect but busting things that were already working fine is what my beef is. People constantly repeat the broken record "did you report it?" Yes, people have been reporting bugs with iOS 14 for months that were never addressed in the public release in sept let alone today. I beg to ask what the point of the public beta program was. THE SOFTWARE IS GETTING WORSE!

I think software automatically gets worse as it gets older. That's not because "CASE" statements wear out, but because as they add complexity the internal interactions have the opportunity to get less predictable.

Plus, whenever a software person decides to rewrite something, there's always side effects. It may be that another module written by someone else did something to correct for a bug in the original code that the rewrite undoes.

Fixing all this takes loads and loads of testing. Which takes time. And costs money. And isn't "fun".

Of course, not doing all this just propagates bugs forward forever. Limiting your exposure to only certain versions of software and hardware does help the business case, in the short term. It still reproduces a defect over and over and over... But, maybe nobody will notice and you'll move to a new project, get a new job, make enough money to retire or whatever.

 

[BKDad]

What a joke, "performance throttling" is in every single piece of technology in one form of another.

In case Apple loses the lawyer should drop his pants, let out the most epic fart and say “sorry folks, fart throttling to context-appropriate levels will get us sued” .

They're dealing with Epic in another lawsuit...

 

[ani4ani]

Planned obsolesence? How many of us have friends who are still rocking iphones and macbooks from 2015 and earlier? Apple gear remains useful for years longer than windows & android stuff, partly because of software support and partly because of better physical build quality. This lawsuit is frivolous.

and you said it...and why Apples explanation (excuse) was always BS

 

[Unregistered 4U]

True, but at least it's clear and people could choose.

That might be better than getting the heave after X years or having no recourse with regard to severe bugs.

Under that scheme, nobody would be forced to upgrade, either.

BUT, if the government says that old devices MUST NOT receive new updates past 4 years, then there IS no recourse. For Apple to provide any patch or update would be illegal, probably with a fine. If there’s a severe bug, you’d have to get a new device. Not what Portugal intends, likely, but if it’s what they get, I wouldn’t be surprised at all.

 

[Jim]

The gentleman in the advertising is showing nature’s planned obsolescence. Certainly he is slower at some things today versus 6 years ago. Everything should not be compared to human lifespans.

 

[repoman016]

Blaming emoji for (insert current gripe) is an old meme at this point.

Well thats strange. Since I use my phone pretty much the same way I've used it for years, the only difference I see when I type is hundreds more emojis, games, gif creators. Loads of entertainment. But now, on occasion, my keyboard will hide the chat window, my camera will open to a black screen, and my screen will go unresponsive for like .5 seconds when typing causing fun confusion if i decide not to re read it. Guess I better fidget around and miss that "in the moment" picture my black screen gave me which never used to happen on that phone I used 5 generations ago. But hey, my pictures do look good I will say that

 

[Wildkraut]

Not providing OS updates is not forcing you to get a new device.

No? And what if your favourite App stops working because of something, and the developer is unable to update/fix it.
Unable to update/fix it, because Apple does not allow the dev to submit Apps build with an older Xcode version.
And newer Xcode versions does not support older iOS versions.

This drives a customer to buy a newer iPhone, because the newer App version works there, and remember that the older iPhone was still working fine for him.

 

[Wildkraut]

BUT, if the government says that old devices MUST NOT receive new updates past 4 years, then there IS no recourse. For Apple to provide any patch or update would be illegal, probably with a fine. If there’s a severe bug, you’d have to get a new device. Not what Portugal intends, likely, but if it’s what they get, I wouldn’t be surprised at all.

No, but devs should be able to decide if it worth to continue supporting these devices, and not be shutup by Apple.
One more reason why iOS needs sideloading and iOS rollback support.

 

[subi257]

Isn't Ferrari still an Italian company incorporated on The Netherlands? It's publicly held, but the largest single stockholder is the Agnelli family, last I knew. All based in Italy.

I stand corrected, you are correct sir....Lamborghini is owned by Audi, Bentley is owned by Volkswagen and Rolls Royce is owned by BMW.

 

[subi257]

Apple is guilty, they could just allow users to install what version of iOS they like tho are prevented and so if they find the update sluggish there only option is to buy a new phone, if Apple was forced to allow choice of iOS they would be no law suite and users would be happy and even happier to buy a new iPhone if they want that latest iOS that their phone just can't handle.

Apple forces it's users to upgrade iOS, as it forces developers to support the latest iOS and forbids support for older iOSs so if users don't upgrade they will soon find out their favourite app can't be downloaded as they require a higher iOS version.

They are NOT forcing you/users to update. You can stay on any version that you are using. Updating OS versions or software updates are on the users to do or skip.