Apple Fined $2 Million in Brazil for Selling iPhones Without Chargers

[bdslade]

We who? This is already a done deal and according to Apple the iphone 12 has sold very well. If there was this hue and cry I could understand, but it doesn't seem to have made a difference to the consumers. The might be some who are off put by the lack of charger, and went to android, but we will never know what the ramifications were. It's not this this is unethical not moral or any other description, it's what Apple and Samsung are doing and consumers can vote by not purchasing those products that don't meet their criteria.

We as in several people replying to you here.

I'm not reading anything anyone is saying as a huge outcry, it's simply a logical criticism of Apple's choice, and pointing out that their claims of environmental concerns are likely marketing BS. Several people have pointed out why that's the case (because now the chargers use extra packaging and have to be shipped separately, and that people will need to replace their charging block after a few or four years of use, anyway, so Apple will likely still sell lots of these, excess packaging and all), and it's clear that this is about saving/making money instead of for the environment.

Personally, I wouldn't have bought a 12 mini on the principle of the charger thing, but I want a small phone. I was given the choice of voting with my wallet about the principle of a charger not being included, or the principle of supporting a small phone. In the end, the small phone was the more important principle, but that doesn't exclude me from calling out Apple for changing the iPhone cable's USB standard and removing the charging block in the same year. It's a separate issue, and I'll gladly call them out for it. They should've either left it as USB-A to provide backward compatibility for old iPhones, or included a charger to create forward compatibility when they eventually removed the charging block. Period.

Samsung hasn't done it yet, and if they do it, it'll just be the latest example of them following Apple's lead. Let's not pretend that anyone but Apple started this trend.

 

[I7guy]

We as in several people replying to you here.

I'm not reading anything anyone is saying as a huge outcry, it's simply a logical criticism of Apple's choice, and pointing out that their claims of environmental concerns are likely marketing BS. Several people have pointed out why that's the case (because now the chargers use extra packaging and have to be shipped separately, and that people will need to replace their charging block after a few or four years of use, anyway, so Apple will likely still sell lots of these, excess packaging and all), and it's clear that this is about saving/making money instead of for the environment.

Personally, I wouldn't have bought a 12 mini on the principle of the charger thing, but I want a small phone. I was given the choice of voting with my wallet about the principle of a charger not being included, or the principle of supporting a small phone. In the end, the small phone was the more important principle, but that doesn't exclude me from calling out Apple for changing the iPhone cable's USB standard and removing the charging block in the same year. It's a separate issue, and I'll gladly call them out for it. They should've either left it as USB-A to provide backward compatibility for old iPhones, or included a charger to create forward compatibility when they eventually removed the charging block. Period.

Samsung hasn't done it yet, and if they do it, it'll just be the latest example of them following Apple's lead. Let's not pretend that anyone but Apple started this trend.

Got it (and I don't mean to be pejorative). With hundreds of millions of customers, there will surely be varied opinions of Apples' products and policies. The few who voiced critical opinions seem to pale in comparison with the tens of millions that already purchased an iphone 12.

The fact the EU criticized Apple for e-waste, while the watchdog agency in Brazil doesn't care, seems to be a normal thing of governments and government entities not agreeing, thus putting Apple at odds with it's policies.

I view this as a minor thing. My son who bought the iphone 12, made a comment to me about it and is using his old usb-a to lightning cable with the old 5 watt charger. (Actually I think he also uses the attached usb-c cable to charge from his macbook also).

Xiaomi is also not shipping a charger with some of it's phones...so it's a thing, even if some don't believe there is a net positive to the environment.

 

[WaltCD]

I'm sure they saved a whole LOT of money but not putting those chargers in there. They can afford a little fine.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

Well if you sell your old charger with your old phone you need to buy the higher spec faster charger which happens to fit your shiney new USB-C cable for a mere €19. Shock horror! Or go buy the Samsung one I saw on sale today at a special offer of €11, it’s pins don’t fold but it’s cheaper. Out of interest if you would struggle to buy an €11 fast charger why on Earth would you be selling your old iPhone and upgrading to a new model?

So just again, explain to me why it was important that between me, my parents, and my brothers family (oh yes I counted earlier!) 17 chargers had to be manufacturer (pollution) shipped (double box sizes mean double shipments, pollution) and then left in the boxes unused just because you feel you personally are being ripped of by €19 on a phone you have no obligation to buy?

Enjoy your new Android when you get it! (Not a Samsung though, they‘re not doing the chargers included now either).

Yeah nice try there, there are many people out there who aren’t in a massive family and happen to take issue with the fact their 1400 Canadian dollar phone doesn’t contain a way to charge it even though it costs more than all the previous iPhones which did ship with charger bricks.

People will complain as is their right with their purchase of a product this expensive.

 

[coolfactor]

I side with Apple on this, on principle. How many people include the adapter when they sell their iPhone, give it to someone else, or submit it for recycling? Very few. So there are presently WAY more adapters in people's homes than iPhones. Therefore it makes sense to stop distributing an adapter with every new iPhone.

I rarely plug my phone in to charge it. Wireless charging is the new way to go, so by not including the adapter is smart, and gives the customer a choice about whether to buy a wired adapter or wireless charger, if they need one. Most won't.

Also, they should not be including a cord at all. That's just silly.

 

[Yokon54]

Peanuts for Apple

Oh, it is? Tell me more. 😆😆

 

[Delta-NC]

Deleted.

 

[SFjohn]

Brazil, like lots of places wants money from Apple. Pretty much business as usual. In the end perhaps Apple will include chargers in larger packages to hold them. Apple will add $40 US to the price of iPhones in Brazil to cover the costs of the added chargers and bespoke packaging. Brazilians will be thrilled I’m sure!

 

[Delta-NC]

Deleted.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

I literally had 6 chargers still in old iPhone / iPad boxes myself. You’re taking what I said right out of context, but let’s just scrap that for a second because more importantly...

If you don’t have a charger for a phone and can’t afford to spend $20 on one, then don’t buy a phone costing you $1400. People shouldn’t be complaining in that context they should be getting a financial education! Hope this life advice helps because you must be in a heck of a debt right now! Good luck!

I can obviously afford 20 dollars, but that doesn’t mean I still don’t look for a good value for my money. Way I see it, Apple made a decision to remove hardware from the box and decided to market it as an environmental decision, and I’m the one who paid for it. That’s all there is to it, so you don’t need to be so disrespectful about it, it’s not a good look and it doesn’t help sell whatever point you’re trying to make.

 

[Cycom]

A fine this massive is no doubt going to give timmy fits. Lol this is chump change.

 

[Ethosik]

If it wasn’t for government involvement and regulation you’d never know what’s in your food. You’d never have a mandatory nutrition sticker. You’d never have anything stopping people from driving drunk.

Are you really sure you want a world that isn’t governed? That’s what’s truly sad - people like you taking things for granted that they don’t realize is the reason for our way of life. Put aside your brand loyalty and use your mind.

Yeah ummmm, people have certain allergies that will be hospitalized or killed if they have some in large doses. So listed something contains peanuts, someone with a peanut allergy knows.

 

[almog]

brazilian opinion about that considering the different aspects of the problem (there is no official release from PROCON yet, only media)

Not including chargers:
1 - selling phones without chargers is not illegal, as many lawyers here say, as apple provides the cable the lack of a power adapter (the correct name for the equipment) is not an issue. Apple does not force people to use their own charger (it would be a classified as "forced sale" if apple did not include the lightning to usb cable on the box, as the lightning port is proprietary and essential for charging the phone);
2 - samsung made a deal with the same agency where during pre-sale they would offer a charger with no costs to everyone that asked for, but that does not apply to current after launch sales. Considering that Apple could ask for the same deal or "force" the agency to state that power adapters are mandatory so no other company can have different rules;
3 - there is already a court rejected lawsuit saying that forcing a company to provide any kind of equipment is not under the terms of brazilian jurisdiction if this equipment is not mandatory for the "main one" to function properly. And that by forcing companies to do that prices would increase;
4 - the issue applies to all new iphones, but as iphones 12, 12 pro and 12 pro max are new models that would disqualify them considering that there is no change for what comes in the box;
5 - iphones SE and 11 did lose the charger and got no price reduction, but exchange rates changed, there is no way for the agency to prove any kind of damage to the consumer code as all apple equipment is imported to the country and pricing is not absolute.

Water resistance question:
1 - apple does not advertise water proof, it advertises water resistance... there is a difference there and apple can try to use that to appeal, meaning thatyou can drop the equipment on water up to that specified target, but that changes over time as the seal can lose its efficiency, and also the ad does not say that you can use the phone under water... the main issue is that those things are not specified under the warranty terms.

Not repairing equipment bought abroad:
1 - that issue apple does not have any valid arguments... brazilian consumer law states that there is a time frame where new equipment should be repaired under brazilian terms even if bought somewhere else IF the company provides local assistance to products sold here.

Also, the agency is not federal and those rules, if changed would apply only to one state, and that's another thing tha apple has to deal with.

we´ll have to wait for more information on that, it could take ages.

 

[Ethosik]

Man you don’t have to agree with me on this lol it’s okay. I see spending 1k on something as providing an entitlement to raise concerns and complain about things you want changed. You seem to think that because I buy something that I should keep quiet and accept it completely with all its flaws.

You wanna live that way go ahead, live and let live brother

So you would be fine if I just sit on a website ALL DAY LONG complaining that I cannot play Cyberpunk 2077 at 4K 60 FPS on a Surface Pro that I spent over $1,000 for? No, you get the product that fits your needs. It does not matter if its $1,000 or just $1. Do your research on a purchase. If I go get a washer/fridge/microwave, I don't just go to the store, spin with my eyes closed, and say "THAT ONE" when I stop. I look at them for 15-30 minutes and find the RIGHT ONE.

 

[0rinoco]

Yet more proof, if more were needed, that greed has no boundaries. As the old saying goes......"Much wants more".

 

[amartinez1660]

I laud Apple’s desire to protect the environment. Making the iPhone box smaller is a good thing, and reducing unused charger bricks is a good thing. BUT if the environment were all that they were concerned about, then they can ask customers when buying an iPhone IF they want a charger, and include a charger in a smaller separate box for free, thus reducing the shipping volume all the same. It’s charging for the charger many will need that’s unacceptable, and I’m glad Brazil’s held them to account for that.

I agree with all of this and also the water resistant repair ability issue (wouldn’t want to find myself in a situation like that). With Apple Care I have never had an issue though, fix, replacement or support is pretty much instant.

What I want to know though, is this: those $2M to be fined are all of them, not one single cent less, towards the consumers right? Via the option to either get a charger for free or store credit. Because this is all for the consumer’s protection, damages fixing, so on and so forth... would be great to see someone tracing those dollars.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

So you would be fine if I just sit on a website ALL DAY LONG complaining that I cannot play Cyberpunk 2077 at 4K 60 FPS on a Surface Pro that I spent over $1,000 for? No, you get the product that fits your needs. It does not matter if its $1,000 or just $1. Do your research on a purchase. If I go get a washer/fridge/microwave, I don't just go to the store, spin with my eyes closed, and say "THAT ONE" when I stop. I look at them for 15-30 minutes and find the RIGHT ONE.

There is no product that 100% perfectly fits everyone's needs. A paying customer is entitled to providing feedback in the form of complaints if they are unhappy about something, and that is a fact you'll need to get over. I'm not interested in your suggestion, thanks though

 

[incoherent_1]

Fine should've had more zeros on the end of it.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Once again, this is great news. I’m glad some countries are at least realizing what a dumb move this is fuelled entirely by financial motivation and nothing to do with environmental impact.

What do you think the result will be if Apple is forced to change their packaging and include a charger? You are convinced they are only motivated by greed, so do you think they will just make all the changes, add the 5w charger back in and include a USB-A to lighting cable and and just cut their margin?

Or do you think it more likely they will raise the price or cut some other feature to keep their margins the same?

They changed the charger the same time they got rid of it from the box. Tell me more about how we’re supposed to use our existing USBC bricks that we got with our iPhone….?

They did not change the charger. Almost everyone that had an iOS device has old USB-A chargers and old USB-A to lighting cables. There are fewer people who have the USB-C to lightning cable, so they have begun to provide that in order to make it possible for those people to use USB-C infrastructure.

They sell charger bricks separately in a ton of packaging and at exorbitant prices and they just got called out for it.

How did they get called out for it? This has no impact on the chargers they sell as separate items nor on their packaging.

Bravo, next country now please.

You prefer less choice and more needless cost as a consumer? When I purchased my iPhone 12 Pro, I also bought a 29 watt charger and a mag safe puck (which come in tiny packages, barely bigger than the items themselves). I am happy that I did not get another useless 5 watt charging brick and USB-A to Lightning cable.

Like @gavroche I do not understand why you and others feel that it is a good thing to have these things mandated by the government. If you believe that Apple, Samsung and others are misleading consumers as to what is in the box, that seems like a reasonable complaint. If not, why do you want people to have to pay for something that they do not need?

 

[Suckfest 9001]

What do you think the result will be if Apple is forced to change their packaging and include a charger? You are convinced they are only motivated by greed, so do you think they will just make all the changes, add the 5w charger back in and include a USB-A to lighting cable and and just cut their margin?

Or do you think it more likely they will raise the price or cut some other feature to keep their margins the same?

They did not change the charger. Almost everyone that had an iOS device has old USB-A chargers and old USB-A to lighting cables. There are fewer people who have the USB-C to lightning cable, so they have begun to provide that in order to make it possible for those people to use USB-C infrastructure.

How did they get called out for it? This has no impact on the chargers they sell as separate items nor on their packaging.

You prefer less choice and more needless cost as a consumer? When I purchased my iPhone 12 Pro, I also bought a 29 watt charger and a mag safe puck (which come in tiny packages, barely bigger than the items themselves). I am happy that I did not get another useless 5 watt charging brick and USB-A to Lightning cable.

Like @gavroche I do not understand why you and others feel that it is a good thing to have these things mandated by the government. If you believe that Apple, Samsung and others are misleading consumers as to what is in the box, that seems like a reasonable complaint. If not, why do you want people to have to pay for something that they do not need?

That is my opinion yes, thanks for rephrasing it. I’d expect them to re-add the USB-C charger brick and keep it in the box for at least a few years so that USB-C bricks reach ubiquity. Not cut them one year after introducing them like everybody buys a new phone every year.

 

[Tech198]

"Apple responded to the agency's concerns by saying that most customers already have spare adapters and that providing another one in the box is unneeded."

wow...is this Apple's best response ?

They may be ale to get away with this saying in other countries where it is not the 'law' but here Apple is dealing with something bigger than a fish in a bucket

 

[appleph]

Count me in among those without an existing charger. I have USB-C charger for macs, but I don't plan on sharing that with an iPhone. I do have iPhone 11 (yes the cheap one and its brick is not compatible with iPhone 12 either. So I am really not sure where the assumption of customers likely already have a charger is coming from.

 

[Tech198]

Count me in among those without an existing charger. I have USB-C charger for macs, but I don't plan on sharing that with an iPhone. I do have iPhone 11 (yes the cheap one and its brick is not compatible with iPhone 12 either. So I am really not sure where the assumption of customers likely already have a charger is coming from.

I choose to think this is the same reason why Apple ditched ports on the Mac... so you can walk into a store later and buy a dongle when needed. My iphone charger just sits in the empty box.

 

[Bawstun]

Good. It is literally ridiculous to sell a (new) unused item without what you will need to operate it. Apple acting like they can just slap a “AA batteries not included” on $1200 phones is outrageous, the level of greed has not been properly called out, IMO. Forget the environment garbage argument - that doesn’t even make sense.

 

[960design]

See Apple you need to include chargers with the iPhones.

Why isn’t Samsung including earphones and a charger plug in the box? | Samsung UK

Keywords Find out why Samsung is not including earphones and a charger plug with their Galaxy smartphones anymore.

www.samsung.com