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Yeah.... not sure I can add much that wasn't said already in 9 pages of comments? But had to chime in that THIS is exactly what I hate about the "new Apple". This garbage Tim Cook keep spewing about the iPad being pretty much a computer replacement is going to be what drives me away from the Mac after using Apple products faithfully for the last 15 years or so. (Before that, I was pretty much a DOS and Windows guy.)

I own an iPad Pro with a pencil and a keyboard cover, and a few dongle adapters.... and I've owned several iPads before it too. So I'm not against the iPad itself. I can simply tell you it doesn't cut it as a laptop replacement, at all! For starters, it runs the same, dumbed-down operating system originally made for their cellphones! At least Microsoft puts full-blown Windows 10 on their Surface Pro product.

Additionally, it utterly lacks connectivity options. Gigabit wired Ethernet (or wired Ethernet at ALL?) isn't just "nice to have". It's essential if you work in I.T. and need to program new switches, firewalls or routers - doing their initial configurations to put them on a network.

And sure, it has great battery life? But what about the very common situation with laptops where you want to leave it plugged in and use it that way, so you don't run down a battery that you'll need to use later? If you do that on an iPad, you tie up the only expansion port on the thing -- so that means you're not going to be able to work with any external storage devices or anything else that won't talk to it via Bluetooth or wi-fi.

If anything, I'd call an iPad a possible Netbook alternative. And even then, it probably doesn't make a lot of sense when Netbooks are generally so much cheaper and give people a better keyboard to type on.

I've always considered my iPad an unnecessary, but "nice to have" accessory/device to use in addition to my laptop and desktop machines. It's great for certain scenarios like web surfing and emailing people while lying in bed, or using it while standing up. It's also a great kiosk solution, and good for custom projects like in-dash car computers/media players. If I know I have suitable iOS apps on mine for certain tasks I need to do on the go? Yeah, I can take it with me instead of taking a laptop. Or if I know I just want to consume media, like reading e-books or video? Again, it's a good fit for those tasks. (Used to take it with me every day on my work commute when I rode on the train. It served as my music player, let me watch movies or TV shows I put on it ahead of time, and could read the electronic version of the daily newspaper and other news sites on it.) . I'm not an artist but I can definitely see people using it as their primary or only tool for drawing sketches or animations.

But come on, Apple! You just don't seem to get that when I want to play video games, I'm looking at popular titles like Fallout 76 or Overwatch, that just aren't coming to an iPad (or even a Mac running OS X in most cases, these days). And when I want to get work done, I want to use the SAME apps on the go that I use at work. iPads paired with Bluetooth keyboards still don't use the hotkey shortcuts the same way as they do on Windows or on a Mac when you're in programs like MS Office. I always find myself going back and forth between the keyboard and tapping something or other on the iPad screen, and it's just not efficient.

I also want to be able to manipulate multiple programs running at the same time, with independent windows I can resize and rearrange at will. iOS doesn't provide that kind of power at all.

I used to build a lot of basic web sites for people too. Not so much currently, but again -- I can't imagine trying to do that on just an iPad? There are so many good programs for web development in OS X that I don't think have iOS equivalents.

OMG another IT person trying to explain why an iPad won’t serve his computer needs.

No. It’s not a computer replacement for you and they’re not even remotely trying to suggest it is. And that’s exactly why Apple is still making Macs and proved last month that they’re still committed to that.

How can you respond to this ad and article as if you seriously think you’re the target market for this ad??

Good grief.
 
Can it scan both sides of doc at once?

Don’t mistake ‘there are devices that can do this function better’ with ‘this is not a computer’.

There were scanners that could do some things better than every flat bed scanner I’ve ever owned. There were computers that could so some things better than every computer I’ve ever owned. That did not stop those scanners and computers from being scanners and computers.

The only definition of ‘computer’ that iPads don’t meet are the lists of arbitrary functions put forward by people who are obsessed with iPads not being computers.
 
Wow so much negativity and hate!!!!

Is anyone else in the industry even CLOSE to making something like the iPad????
Nope.

Old saying, “if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say it all.”

SMH
 
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Well of course you can use a finger or a pencil. The question is, is it easier to use a trackpad or a mouse, or a finger or pencil when typing on an attached keyboard? Is it easier to lift your hand off the keyboard to touch something on the screen? Or is it easier just to move a thumb to a trackpad, or move your hand slightly to one side and use a mouse? Is it easier to pick up a pencil, and hover it in midair with no physical support for your hand to touch the screen, then put it down and resume typing? Or just shift the hand to a mouse or trackpad? Is it easier to plug in an external monitor and continuously shift your gaze from the iPad to monitor and back, so you can select and navigate, or keep your eyes focused on the larger display and merely move a pointing device next to the keyboard you’re also using?

Maybe using the iPad with your finger or pencil is easier for you in these very common computer uses, but for most people it’s not likely going to be. And keep in mind, these are the exact examples which Apple says makes giving the Mac a touch screen impractical as being ergonomically counterproductive to use — yet somehow it’s no problem on an iPad being marketed as a computer replacement?

No. It’s not easier for me. I prefer a keyboard and mouse in a traditional set up. But the vast majority of people these ads are targeted at aren’t like you and me. A pencil and touch is far more natural for them.

That’s the detail people here are missing: Us computer nerds are not the people these ads are targeted at. Why is that so hard for people here to understand??

Use the tool that works for you. And ffs let Apple make and promote tools that work for other, different people, too.
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Apple...just stop with this ****. I have a pro, and no way.

iPad needs an iPad OS. Not an iPhone os if it ever wants to think about challenging my Mac as a setup.

It doesn’t want to think about challenging your Mac as a setup. So all good.
 
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totally disagree also.
it means one is totally locked into the apple system.
no inserting a usb stick into the iPad to transfer files.
like many people, i have hundreds of movies backed up which i like to re-watch from time to time.
no more of that.
just one example …

Verbatim do a lightning and USB stick that can transfer files via an app. I guess that's not compatible with the new ones anymore though lol. And still an inelegant workaround. They charge for more and more space on the iPads but don't give easy access to anything that might fill it up ... except games.
 
Again that is YOUR needs and your wants. Not everyone wants to code, not everyone feels the need to be able to rename and move around their files. Not everyone insists they have to be able to use a mouse. If that’s your desires, go get your fraking laptop and enjoy yourself. But drop the nonsense that everyone has to be like you.

You should also drop stalking people's comments about it.

As you said, enjoy yourself ;)
 
Wow so much negativity and hate!!!!

Is anyone else in the industry even CLOSE to making something like the iPad????
Nope.

Old saying, “if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say it all.”

SMH

Don't say anything at all, you mean. I feel it is "nice" to help ;)

I got a Surface Book 2 in an early black friday sale. Detached that screen and felt very futuristic with that design and the lightness. Of course, it has rubbish battery life in that form, but it has a full desktop OS and that counts for a lot. And it was only after that that I actually saw the new iPad pro and found that it is now almost exactly the same in the design shape. Quite interesting I thought! But they are so different in most other ways, the OS being the most important.
 
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You are right if we follow the narrow mindset Apple has right now. But that mindset is what's limiting iOS and if Apple doesn't break the mold, it will continue to be limited, and all the raw power will continue going to waste. It's been 6-7 years already of iPads in this world, and iOS keeps being severely limited in so many ways.

If this platform is truly to move outside of the walled garden and be truly versatile, it has to open up and expand to many different things, including maybe mouse support. There are many use cases where a mouse is just superior to touch, period.



Why is this even an issue? Why is everyone arguing about this?

If you want a small lightweight mouse/trackpad capable machine, get a MacBook. If you want a touch device get an iPad. That’s the point.

There’s no point bringing iOS to the Mac because that’s what macOS already is.

And there’s no point in bringing mouse/trackpad support to iOS and the iPad baecause that’s what a Mac is for.

The only reasonable argument here would be if people want both in ONE device. And I’d argue for that. One device that when the hardware is in tablet mode it runs iOS and when in laptop mode it runs macOS and switches between the two on the fly. Switches all apps and docs between the two platforms (where apps for both exist) on the fly as you switch hardware modes. That’s what a hybrid device should do. It’s kind of what windows is trying to do but doing it terribly. If Apple were going to do anything like that this is how they would/should do it, I believe. And it’s the only way that makes sense.

In my opinion that’s the only reasonable argument here. Otherwise forget mouse support on iOS. The whole point of iOS is that it’s a touch UI - virtually by definition. They’re not going to bring mouse/trackpad support to iOS. By definition.
 
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greedy Tim again try to tell how to think and what to think

Tim go and play with your colorful wrist bands

apple should add a browser app to the Apple TV
 
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Again that is YOUR needs and your wants. Not everyone wants to code, not everyone feels the need to be able to rename and move around their files. Not everyone insists they have to be able to use a mouse. If that’s your desires, go get your fraking laptop and enjoy yourself. But drop the nonsense that everyone has to be like you.
Calm down...You sound like the 80% of people who will be perfectly happy with an iPad as a consumption device that meets the needs of people who want to surf the web, connect via facebook or perhaps watch a movie, as it happens, the iPad pro is a device that is over kill for the above needs.

Having said that the other 20% of us, and we are talking about millions of people here, the iPad is not a computer that meets the needs of people who need to do production tasks efficiently.
Take for instance coding, there is no way on earth that someone could code on an iPad at anything like the efficiency you can on a traditional computer with keyboard shortcuts and mouse.
The same goes for video editing. Anyone editing more than just the odd clip here or there will never have a workflow that is as efficient as someone with a mouse and keyboard.

As for file support, done right people might not need file support, Apple is nowwhere near that point yet. Problem is for a lot of tasks, files and directories are still needed especially when you are sharing lots of files or have any need for version control.

You just can't lump everyone in the same basket and call them insane for requiring a mouse or keyboard.

I could give you a list of tasks to do and anyone with a mouse and keyboard will finish those task in 10% of the time it would take on an iPad and that is probably being generous.

The moral of the story is to use the right tool for the job.
 
I got to play with Surface Go. Very cute device, with a kickstand, one of Microsoft's rare genius innovations that really does improve usability.
Go lacks the power of the larger Surfaces and even the iPad, but it has a real IS, so you can run Illustrator, PhotoShop etc, and use a mouse as well as the optional pen and keyboard.
 
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My post was in response to the absolutely ridiculous proposition that an iPad is just a toy and can not be used as a productive tool.

Hey, if you want to take this position and engage in gross generalizations and hyperbole then you should defend it. So, if your position is that an iPad can't be used for productivity, then defend it. I gave some quick examples. I'll bet there are folks that can give many more examples that involve drawings, sketches, note taking, reading, annotating, marking up, etc... You need to demonstrate that this is not the case. That productive work does not occur on an iPad. That it can not be done. This is the bar that you set when you engage in condescending exaggeration. Otherwise, drop the exaggerations and make a more lucid, specific and intelligent argument about how the device might not work for you. Or, that you find it easier to do certain things on a traditional computer. That would be reasonable and rational.
The simplest one is that you can’t even open two word documents and edit them side-by-side. This is such a normal working scenario that the ipad can’t do.
 
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Name three things you can do with a mouse that you can't do with a touchscreen and a finger or pencil?

Selection? Check!
Efficiency here is key. I can move a cubic metre of sand with a fork, but wouldn't you rather use a spade?
Object-Movement (dragging)? Check!
Finger isn't as precise as a mouse, but you could use a pencil. For some tasks object movement could be more efficient with a finger given the right implementation
Resizing? Check!
Same as last statement
Drawing? Check!
This is the one task that the iPad wins hands down vs a traditional computer without a touchscreen.
Hovering? Well, you (sorta) got me there... But that's just the screen's limitation. Old School graphics tablets (digitizers) did "hovering" DECADES ago!

So, in a PRACTICAL sense, what REALLY can a mouse do that a touch interface with multi-finger and Stylus input can't? Seriously.

And "Ever" is a Long, Long, LONG time! Hope you find those words tasty...

I'll give you a few tasks that you will wish you were using a computer for.

  1. Do a find and replace of multiple phrases on an iPad
  2. Take a text document and try to select a column (as in block select mode)
  3. Take a text document and try to move some lines up and some lines down, and repeat this task several times.
  4. Try to copy lots of text from one document to another
  5. Video editing.
  6. Coding.
  7. Multitasking - where you need to have several pieces of information on display at once.
  8. Sharing lots of files
I could go on...
 
The simplest one is that you can’t even open two word document and edit them side-by-side. That is such a normal working scenario that ipad can’t do.
Capucchino Pro’s will confuse that with a 2-word document - which adheres to their intellectual ability.
They feel Pro because they spent Pro money on something that runs FaceBook, where they can repeat & like themselves so much that they really believe they are what Tim says they are.
Tim who hates fake news is replicating soo much BS marketing that he really started to believe it himself.
Such a genuine world leader...
 
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Do modern computer users want or even need support for a robust file system / download manager and the ability to use a mouse when required? Most do not.

Only people convinced they need these things are either working professionals with an established workflow or people who refuse to change preconceived notions. Everyone else is flexible and not stuck in their ways.
Have you ever tried to do video editing, coding, text manipulation, remote desktop, command line, excel... on an iPad? Some things are much more efficient with a mouse and keyboard.
 
We complain so that Apple will improve the product. Those who are fine with it just sit tight and enjoy your iPad while it gets better thanks to our feedbacks. You reap the benefits because of our complaints. Keep that in mind.
 
Old saying, “if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say it all.”
Is that an attempt to shut down the conversation? Old Sam Harris quote: "We have a choice. We have two options as human beings. We have a choice between conversation and war. That's it. Conversation and violence."

And the negativity you criticize comes from Apple's ongoing intransigence on their partly questionable design choices and selling these as the future of computing, while leaving a lot to be desired. Not for all, but for many of us.
 
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