Apple Incorporates HDCP (Copy Protection) in New Laptops

[fleshman03]

Letters to SJ Coming soon.

We all should send one.

 

[macbookairapple]

So all the people who have been venting about wanting to be able to play BluRay disks in their Macs are now realising that it's a double-edged sword? I love these forums.

I have no problem with this move, by the way, but won't be buying any new Apple tech until the dust settles a bit.

Hehehe, they want Blu-ray but then cry over all the DRM that comes with it, oh the irony.

 

[TJunkers]

That's just annoying. I mean I get it, but, in the words of GOB Bluth, COME ON!

 

[Vick77]

i guess this is just more reason for me to buy dvd's off amazon, theyre cheaper anyways

 

[macbookairapple]

I don't see why people are getting mad about this. You asked for HD video output, you got it. You all been requesting for Blu-Ray, they are taking necessary steps to make this happen. Apple is just a company who is incorporating what industry standards are. They can't leave out HDCP and expect HD video or Blu-Ray movies to run like a charm.

I don't understand why Apple Fanboys are getting all pissy about this but take a look at Dell, HP, Gateway, Toshiba, Sony and many other companies who have added HDMI or Blu-ray to their machines. They all had to put in HDCP into their product. Do you hear customers from those companies complaining about this? I have yet to hear someone complain.

We are moving fast into the digital age only because people are setting higher standards to what they want. In order to get what they want there should be some form of regulation to control anything. I don't like it as much as the next person, however. The real people you should be mad at is the all of us who asked for any of this.

just my thought on this...

Well said dude, they cry for blu-ray but don't want the DRM infested crap that comes with it.

 

[wtb]

Will the New Mac Mini Have HDCP?

One fear I have is that the new Mac Mini will be based on this laptop design and will have the HDCP, preventing it's use with Analog TVs. It's one thing to prevent BluRays, but is unacceptable if all video output is prohibited to be output to Analog TVs. I thought with BluRay, analog out was acceptable since it was degraded.

 

[aristobrat]

I am pretty upset that I spent afew hudred dollars on music from iTunes. It is such a pain in the a$s when I am buying a new computer. I have 4 macs (not counting the old iMac G4 I use only for word processing) and mistakenly started using one username when I started iTunes and now have another.

What if I decide to get a PC netbook (since apple refuses to make one)? I may do this to have a lightweight Skype device and maybe I want music on it.

So get a netbook that runs Windows, install iTunes, and then the 10 iTunes music tracks that you'll be able to squeeze onto that small netbook drive should play just fine.

 

[Antares]

Rick Dikulus has come on stage. The HDCP show is starting.

You know, there is an interesting question here. At one point when Apple started selling DRM-free music, there was a belief (which was later disproved) that the songs were tagged to show who bought them. How would you feel about that? If they nixed the DRM but tagged the copy that you bought as yours? Then, the people who would try to distribute movies illegally could be tracked, but our ability to use our content wouldn't be impacted. Anyone have any thoughts about that?

Someone would just write software that would be able to strip the tagging.

 

[Bosunsfate]

No. The AppleTV also supports HDCP and will thus not play these movies/tv shows either.

Do you mean new Apple TV's? Reason I ask is that I own one and can't see how this would impact me.

AppleTV, "brick" models of the Macbook, Macbook Pro, and Macbook Air 2.0 all support HDCP and thus will prevent you from watching TV Shows and Movies purchased from iTunes that have been secretly protected with HDCP (both Fairplay 2.0 and Fairplay 3.0 files and both SD and HD)

So, if I take what you are saying correctly then, my Sharp Aquios TV just has this HDCP built into it then. Which then leads to what I think is the right question. Who doesn't support this, and did the teacher with the Sanyo just get unlucky and there are very few of these out of date devices?

 

[jlewis2k1]

What if I decide to get a PC netbook (since apple refuses to make one)? I may do this to have a lightweight Skype device and maybe I want music on it.

Correction, Apple didn't say they didn't want to make a netbook. They just said market for netbooks is still very new and still needs to evolve before they want to take interest in this market.

 

[socamx]

I understand that, but the older macs that do not have mini displayport do not support HDCP.....and yet can play the drm'ed movies from iTunes.

On the built in display or with the video out port?

If they can watch with the video out port while new ones can't then there must be a piece of information I'm missing, or something fishy is up.

 

[Snowy_River]

Well said dude, they cry for blu-ray but don't want the DRM infested crap that comes with it.

For the record, I'm not complaining about BR. I understand what that means. Where my problem stems from is that there is content from iTunes that you can play on any piece of older Apple hardware on any external display that you want, but if you buy new hardware you're suddenly restricted. Also, BR, in theory, gives you a lower resolution stream if the requirements of HDCP aren't met. So, you can still watch what you want to watch, even if you're not using an HDCP display. But what we're seeing of the Apple implementation is that they're not letting you watch ANYTHING. It's a total denial of service, so to speak.

 

[pyramid6]

HDCP is stupid. All it takes is one person in the entire world, to get around it, and everyone else can download it for free. That is how digital copies work. HDCP punishes consumers, it makes us buy HDCP monitors/TVs/projectors.

Too bad movie studios can't figure out how to protect their content without screwing the consumer.

Edit: I never asked for Blu-Ray, so please don't generalize.

 

[AmbitiousLemon]

I don't see why people are getting mad about this. You asked for HD video output, you got it. You all been requesting for Blu-Ray, they are taking necessary steps to make this happen. Apple is just a company who is incorporating what industry standards are. They can't leave out HDCP and expect HD video or Blu-Ray movies to run like a charm.

Correct in that Apple probably has no choice about incorporating HDCP into the displayport, but Apple does wield rather tight control of the media in its own iTunes store, and protects this content with Apple's own Fairplay technology. It is therefore extremely disappointing that Apple has chosen to use both fairplay DRM and HDCP drm on random movies and television episodes in its store, and then compounds this error in judgement by not alerting customers to this doubly protected/crippled content prior to purchase.

 

[compuguy1088]

On the built in display or with the video out port?

If they can watch with the video out port while new ones can't then there must be a piece of information I'm missing, or something fishy is up.

I'm meaning with the external display. I recall reading that both the external and internal display, as well as the graphic card do not support HDCP (in this configuration). The 8600M can support HDCP.

 

[fleshman03]

HDCP is stupid. All it takes is one person in the entire world, to get around it, and everyone else can download it for free. That is how digital copies work. HDCP punishes consumers, it makes us buy HDCP monitors/TVs/projectors.

Too bad movie studios can't figure out how to protect their content without screwing the consumer.

Since the studios have the screw them all approach, why would anyone in their right mind protect or even argue for the studios?

 

[beez1717]

nooo

the ****** thing about this would be if it meant that I couldn't play a video I got on my regular TV. if that were the case then a huge maret would form heheh...

 

[brianbobcat]

Blu-Ray has the option of requiring HDCP compliance, so this might be a step to getting Blu-Ray playback in Macs (a great thing), but I have a few personal beliefs against HDCP in general and hate to see Apple adopt it. Oh well, can't win them all.

P-Worm

I thought that for Blu-ray, if the player didn't detect an HDCP enabled display, it would drop the resolution by up to 50% to prevent a full HD transfer. This is "good" in my opinion for Blu-ray as well, but what about the previous generation Cinema Displays? I read a year or two back that someone Boot Camped their MBP and under Vista, Blu-ray software worked with an external BD drive and the built-in display, hinting that it was HDCP enabled, but I never heard anywhere that the 20, 23, and 30" were enabled. Then again, Apple would be too nice to do that, then they can't sell us another monitor, if they could even enable that via software.

I just want Blu-ray badly, Come on Apple, quit bitchin' and just do it already!

-Brian

 

[bushido]

r u effing kidding me ...

then again i wont buy a mac anytime soon (poor student with a cool vaio ) and i dont see the point in buying movies online. I rather get bluray and have something to "touch"

 

[Snowy_River]

Someone would just write software that would be able to strip the tagging.

Perhaps, but it could be coded in a way that stripping the tag would degrade the image. It's been done with digital imbedded copyright data on stills. But, then again, that might not be good enough for the studios...

 

[gnasher729]

So how does it deter piracy to deny playback on non-HDCP displays?

The idea is that the video signal is encrypted between the graphics card and the video monitor, so that the sneaky pirate cannot record the full 1080 x 1920 image at about 200 MByte per second or 700 GB per hour onto a hard drive.

If you could playback on a non-HDCP display, then some clever hardware guys could build something that looks like a DVI connector but really is just a cable running into a large hard drive. That will not be possible because you can't buy the HDCP chips.

I haven't heard of anyone trying to copy movies that way. And it would surely be possible to cut open a 1080p display with HDCP and grab the signal when it comes out of the decoder.

I read a year or two back that someone Boot Camped their MBP and under Vista, Blu-ray software worked with an external BD drive and the built-in display, hinting that it was HDCP enabled,

Not necessarily. Internal displays don't need HDCP. HDCP is only required to keep the signal encrypted between user-accessible ports. If you can't access the signal, it doesn't need to be encrypted.

One fear I have is that the new Mac Mini will be based on this laptop design and will have the HDCP, preventing it's use with Analog TVs. It's one thing to prevent BluRays, but is unacceptable if all video output is prohibited to be output to Analog TVs. I thought with BluRay, analog out was acceptable since it was degraded.

Can we make one thing clear: If a movie requires HDCP, then it requires HDCP. It will not run on a computer that doesn't "have" HDCP, at least after the next software update. HDCP doesn't prohibit output to analog TVs. What happens is this: If your movie doesn't require HDCP, nothing happens. If it needs HDCP, then it checks whether your computer has an HDCP chip and doesn't play the movie if it doesn't. The computer then checks that the monitor has an HDCP chip and doesn't play the movie if it doesn't (analog TVs don't have HDCP). Then it negotiates with the HDCP chip on the monitor to turn encryption on. If that fails for any reason, then the movie doesn't play. So once you buy movies that require HDCP, your computer _must_ have HDCP, or you are stuffed.

 

[mytdave]

Crap

Well, that does it. Apple's in a catch 22 position to be sure (bag of hurt -vs- people who expect blu-ray support), but this is crap.

Looks like the last time I'll be buying a Mac (existing models with DVI). Once they switch to DisplayPort, they will no longer have any computers that are useful to me.

If I can't connect a Mac (or any other PC) to a projector or regular old TV (like I still have) and display whatever I want to display, it then becomes useless. Guess I'll be switching to Linux now.

 

[chuckzee]

what about requiem?

does anyone know if requiem will be able to strip the drm off? Or is a hardware solution the only way to bypass hdcp?

 

[eeb]

Almost right...

I don't see how this does anything but hurt Apple's iTunes rental business.




Learn to read. Is Apple shipping Sanyo projectors? No. The Apple 24" LED display is probably HDCP compatible, and it will be shipping soon.

More like "Full of FAIL."

The earlier post was basically correct as the 24" monitor isn't quite shipping yet (orders were only being accepted in the last day or two). Regardless, it appears the 23" Cinema display (DVI) falls into this category and new "HD" TV shows will not play on it if you have a DisplayPort based Macbook (I have the new Air)... it's not even bright enough to play the SD version of the shows (they both get downloaded together), it simply fails. Ridiculous regardless... I hate being treated like a criminal.

 

[devman]

Disgraceful

First, I'm not getting into the debate about HDCP good or bad. It's required by the studios and is mandatory for blu-ray, etc.

What makes me really disappointed is that Apple did this by stealth. I have a 30" cinema display and new MBP15. This means (almost certainly) that I cannot watch HDCP content on my Apple cinema display. I can't test this of course as I'm still waiting for the mini-displayport dual-link DVI adapter to ship...

I was not aware of this, because Apple withheld all knowledge of it, when I purchased the new MBP (and the ITMS content for that matter).

I think it's shameful they have released new laptops that will not play certain content on existing apple displays without stating that is the case.

And the only option is to downgrade to a new 24" monitor...