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Apple Interested in Developing ARM-Based Mac Processors and iPhone Modems in House

twolf2919 said:
Seems you love running only Apple-provided software - because that's all that would run on it (with any speed). For an ARM-based Mac to succeed, third-party and open-source developers have to embrace it (i.e. convert their apps to it).
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That's the beauty though, Xcode already does a lot of the heavy lifting by compiling down to a common Bitcode. Assuming macOS is built to be 100% ARM compatible (and I'm sure they're testing a version of this already), they could just have users flip a switch and output code for both architectures. The App Store already requires code in this format so Apple could already just flip a switch and let the App Store dish out the necessary version for the architecture requested.
 
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schlackattack said:
If Mac makes the shift, likely Linux and Windows will begin the shift to ARM as well. Maybe a few yrs of dongle-hell equivalent wrt software, but the shift would happen rather quick.
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There is already ARM with Windows, like on some of the Surfaces.
 
VulchR said:
Macs weren't terribly popular with the PowerPC processors, nor terribly quick either.
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Unsure what makes you say that, the fact they were running POWER architecture is the sole reason heaps of companies moved from SLI based systems. The move to x86 really shot Apple pro/dev market in the head at point-blank range.
 
Too many people in their 40s+ think the Mac isn't a legacy platform because they love themselves a good keyboard/mouse, it IS legacy computing... just a relevant one, downright critical in many use cases (development especially). No different than Windows in that classification. My daughter is 2, and she's not down with iMacs that don't have touchscreens, doesn't get it, never will.
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I dont think you can call a platform supporting the latest compilers and languages legacy. Us over 40s know what legacy is...bet you've never heard of Cross System Product, dBaseIII, even written a stitch of Cobol or Fortran.
 
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WiiDSmoker said:
Lots of companies are gonna be in for a world of financial hurt when Apple pulls their contracts and no longer needs them.
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If they are the likes of Broadcomm then they will strike back hard with a gazillion patent violations just for starters.

The sheer number of patents involved in mobile comms is staggering (in the tens of thousands). Each one will need a separate deal and price even under FRAND rules. This could tie up Apple's entire legal department for 5+ years.
Then a lot of them will be expiring and ... and ... etc etc
It is a huge great minefield. TBH, and IMHO unless Apple has some real secret sauce up its sleeves then replacing the Mobile chip is a non starter.
Now Macbook CPU's is another matter. Only Intel and AMD to deal with for the transition (emulation patents). Still going to cost a lot of money.
 
sziehr said:
I have said this for years and every one goes no no intel this intel that processor change this processor that. I go look apple is going to start the process of having the entire OS written in a higher level language or a modern level C so that they can combine it and all the built in libraries over to ARM. Then it is a simple re-compile for most not all applications to join the ARM OS X train. This is where apple is going. There is no reason to update the Dock or Finder ETC with a total re-write to a new language otherwise. They are moving the ball slowly and in clear view to ARM. The first mechanical cooled ARM chip is now in the ATV. They are getting ready to see how far they can push the Atv it is a low risk product with low sales currently. They can latter on push it hard and if they fail they have good understanding of thermal loads in the wild. They are going to make a MacBook A series chip. This is going to happen when is the only question I have left. They have several sub-systems left to migrate on the UI side of the house. They also need to start to get developers into the idea that the apps need to be universal again. This push will come with a new heavy push for the App Store. This why the universal binaries are handled on the back end away from the user. The arm user will not know they are using arm unless they look at the specs. This is where they want to go. So you can write it one time and have it run multi thread monster on the Mac Pro or multi thread mini on the ARM in the MacBook scales perfectly and is universal. This is where apple has pointed the ship. Intel has nothing on the road map at the sub 15 watt chip size that punches. I know now I will get the people who go but arm is not intel the benchmarks don't compare etc etc. This is going to happen. So strap in for the next decade cause it will be ARM and it will be universal binaries and it will all feel like a throw back to the early 2k.
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I agree with everything you wrote, but big developers matter more than you seem to give credit for. As consumers have been moved to doing basic tasks on a smartphone and tablet, it is really mainly "work" that gets done on laptops and desktops these days. I have no doubt that Apple can make OS X and all their inhouse apps work just fine on ARM, but I doubt Microsoft, Adobe, Blackmagic, Avid, AutoDesk, Clang, or many of the numerous command-line based compilers will be so quick to offer support (I realize gcc already has an ARM fork, but it's messy to say to the least). Those companies worked faster than I expected to bring support to x86 yet it still took them several years and some aren't yet entirely on board, and that was easy for them. They will not work very fast to bring support for ARM, if ever at all.

Further, Apple's in-house software that competes with the above developers has been really lagging behind in features. Die-hard Adobe or Avid users will probably buy a PC with x86 rather than changing to an an Apple in-house app.

I suppose some people might still buy a Mac only to remote into a proper x86 working environment. But is that the market Apple hopes to serve? I don't think anyone at Apple wants to be making only glorified luxurious Chromebooks.
 
chabig said:
1987: "Macs can't move off 68K"
1994: Apple seamlessly transitions Macs to PowerPC
2002: "Macs can't move off PPC processors"
2006: Apple seamlessly transitions Macs to Intel
2017: "Macs can't move off x86 processors"
2020?
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Please, think this out before responding:

For example: There wasn’t virtualization available until ~2005 for common mortals. And it was everything but seamless, at least the PPC -> x86 transition.
 
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twolf2919 said:
Seems you love running only Apple-provided software - because that's all that would run on it (with any speed). For an ARM-based Mac to succeed, third-party and open-source developers have to embrace it (i.e. convert their apps to it).
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May be apple will introduce some type of virtual machine, for transition period , and once all third-party apps are ready, they can get rid of it to improve performance ?
 
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I think Apple realizes that chip speed has reached a climax. Being in bed with Intel doesn’t help them as much as it did 10 years ago. The iPhone chip, designed by Apple, is as fast as an Intel MacBook.

Apple will negate having the fastest chips (that’s assuming Intel can design a better chip than Apple....which is not a given), and instead move to lower power chips designed in-house that are completey capable of running OSX.

This makes perfect sense for their notebook line. In another 10 years (if that), all of the chips Apple uses will be built in-house, except for the Mac Pro.
 
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Yet another transition and being locked into Apple. Meanwhile all over OS and systems stick to to the current archetecture. I can imagine the proffesional's will move on. But afterall, Apple want's to kill the mac i think.
 
I was always against moving away from Intel, but the sheer power of the A10, A10X, A11 etc shows they are going in the right direction. I'd say it's inevitable. And why wouldn't Apple not want to be in control of their own hardware?
 
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dippnerd said:
That's the beauty though, Xcode already does a lot of the heavy lifting by compiling down to a common byte-code. Assuming macOS is built to be 100% ARM compatible (and I'm sure they're testing a version of this already), they could just have users flip a switch and output code for both architectures. The App store already requires code in this format so Apple could already just flip a switch and let the App Store dish out the necessary version for the architecture requested.
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The only problem is a third party library you are using not compiled for ARM. I'm sure some developers would have that problem.
But if an app is running on iOS the ARM porting on the Mac should be easy.

It would take some years to have an ARM Mac, but we'll get there I'm pretty sure about that. Maybe it won't be possible to install Windows on it, but I don't think it's a big problem for Apple. They'll lose some customers, but not the majority.
As long as the majority of apps is available on the ARM customers will be happy
 
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BaccaBossMC said:
No! Absolutely no ARM in a Macbook. I'm switching to a Hackintoshed Razer Blade if that happens, ARM just can't run any kind of power-heavy desktop application, and Solidworks requires a Windows environment, which I run in a VM so I only have to deal with Windows part of the time. I'm fine if its a Coprocessor, but the main has to be either x86 or, in the future, Quantum. If Apple switches to ARM, they are going to lose a large portion of their user base for the Macbook: professionals.
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I keep seeing these messages about today's A series processors, but what about in 2 or 3 years from now?

I think Apple should keep advancing the ATV as a test article for this direction. When you see a full keyboard option for for it, then you'll know this is more than speculation.
 
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jgbr said:
Yet another transition and being locked into Apple. Meanwhile all over OS and systems stick to to the current archetecture. I can imagine the proffesional's will move on. But afterall, Apple want's to kill the mac i think.
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Why would they move on? I'd imagine most developers would be on-board with this, plus it would be so easy to develop apps for iOS & macOS in parallel. Imagine how rich the Mac App Store would be with quality compared to the barren mess it is now?
 
On what metric are these ARM chips faster? I can't imagine doing batch edits on a phone of RAW photos and stuff. I mean, even look at the die sizes, ARM transistors aren't magic.
 
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