Apple Invites Media to 'Hello Again' October 27th Mac-Centric Event

[EnderBeta]

Let's say goodbye to Intel processors (at least for all less powerful Macs for the moment) and please welcome the new generation of ARM-based Macs. The future is a single OS (and compatible apps too of course) for Macs, iPads, iPhones, iEverthingelse.

The Mac is dead, long live to the Mac!

If the Mac stops being able to run Windows programs either native or through an acceptable speed in VM then I'm returning to the PC. I use my Mac for work but the AV industry software for Crestron, AMX, Biamp, Clearone, Cisco, RGB Spectrum, ect all have only Windows programs or web based.

I'd like to stick with the Mac platform but if they go that suicidal route my next laptop will probably be a Razer.
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I can think of two from a non-technical perspective: not having to think about if you're plugging it in the right way around, and it being smaller (which should lead to smaller devices and adaptors down the road).

So in essence it is just to make it smaller and a worthless change designed only to sell new devices and adapters.

I'm not interested.

 

[aevan]

I'm perfectly fine with the current thinness of my Early 2015 MacBook Pro 13". If it meant being able to upgrade the RAM and storage capacity myself I'd be fine with the non retina MacBook Pro thickness.

I wouldn't. For me it's the other way around - it's not the thinness, it's the weight (one dictates the other). 2011. MBP was ok for 2011 (also - fun fact, there were people who asked it was thicker then as well). The current line of MBPs is fine, but not perfect. For Skylake chips, I expect something even lighter. Will that be good enough? Not really - one day I hope I can put something that basically looks like an iPad in my bag, but be ablet to run heavy, intensive programs on it.

See? We're different you and I. That's great - diversity is the key to creativity and productivity. The world needs people who are different. I'm not being cynical here, I really believe that. So you go and get a computer that has non retina thickness that you're prefectly fine with and where you can upgrade the RAM and storage. I gave you a good recommendation, I hear this HP workstation is honestly great. I'll go and get the new, thinner MacBook Pro - because I'm not perfectly fine with the current thinness. I'll just grab the maximum amount of RAM I need and a solid amount of storage and it will be fine for the next 2-3 years. I won't be able to upgrade them myself, but the lower weight and better mobility is a good trade-off for me.

As I said - I understand your needs - I just don't understand how you fail to realize mine are different. YOU are ok with a heavier computer that you can upgrade, I AM NOT. You guys keep acting like you are right and I am somehow wrong - I'm not wrong, my needs are different. Your way of work, your life style, your way of thinking - whatever - clearly appreciates - maybe even requires - the ability to upgrade your computer, maybe even tinker with it. You know what, there's a good chance you also like a different kind of food than me. Shocking.

All I'm saying is - that's not Apple and it never was. That's PC. Not all PCs, but some of them are EXACTLY like that. So, let me repeat my question: what are you doing here?
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I'd like to stick with the Mac platform but if they go that suicidal route my next laptop will probably be a Razer.

ARM is not happening, at least not in a long while, relax.
[doublepost=1477149115][/doublepost]

So in essence it is just to make it smaller and a worthless change designed only to sell new devices and adapters.

I'm not interested.

Yes, so was the CD-ROM when it replaced a floppy drive. Come to think of it, every new technology was designed only to sell new devices, so let's go back to those cassette tapes we used on C-64!

 

[Mac 128]

What is the benefit of USB-C compared to USB-A? Is it only to make the machine thinner or does it provide a faster port then USB 3.1?

I think you are over exaggerating the amount of ports and configurability people want. To suggest you have to buy a desktop replacement to be able to get a user replaceable drive and memory is ridiculous. The thinness obsession is getting out of hand to the point where the processors have to be lower and lower power to not overheat in the case. I'm perfectly fine with the current thinness of my Early 2015 MacBook Pro 13". If it meant being able to upgrade the RAM and storage capacity myself I'd be fine with the non retina MacBook Pro thickness.

If the Mac stops being able to run Windows programs either native or through an acceptable speed in VM then I'm returning to the PC. I use my Mac for work but the AV industry software for Crestron, AMX, Biamp, Clearone, Cisco, RGB Spectrum, ect all have only Windows programs or web based.

I'd like to stick with the Mac platform but if they go that suicidal route my next laptop will probably be a Razer.
[doublepost=1477140923][/doublepost]
So in essence it is just to make it smaller and a worthless change designed only to sell new devices and adapters.

I'm not interested.

Are you serious?

USB 3.1 doubles the speed of USB 3.0. USB 3.0 doubles the speed of USB 2.0. In order to get the speed benefits of USB 3, you need a USB 3 wired port, even though the USB-A port is otherwise physically compatible with both. If they had kept the type A connector, you'd still be in the exact same situation of needing to buy new equipment and adapters to utilize the improvements. So in the process of improving the USB standard, they also improved the port connector as well, making it more suitable for increasingly smaller mobile devices, whether necessary for desktop applications or not.

This is not just about selling new stuff.

Whether you're interested or not, all PCs, not just Macs will switch to USB-C in a few short years, and you will have to deal with it whether you want to or not. I'm sure a few PC makers will still include USB-A ports, just as I'm sure there are a few somewhere that still have serial ports. Who knows, maybe you can find one that still offers both.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

let's go back to those cassette tapes we used on C-64!

Might be a good way to teach this Instageneration some patience instead of trying to get everything they want in an instamoment.

 

[aevan]

Might be a good way to teach this Instageneration some patience instead of trying to get everything they want in an instamoment.

Heh Whenever there is progress, someone is there to say "let's go slower, this generation wants everyting fast!"

 

[antonis]

Last time I checked, computers needed s/w in order to be useful. So, unless apple plans to write all the s/w on their own, ARM is not happening. The market will not follow them that easily if they switch. This would be nothing like the switch to intel.

Regarding form factor and weight, this was used to be an extra feature of Macs. Lately, though, seems to be the only deciding factor for apple, resulting in inferior products. Needs are different, yes, so they can be covered by different models. I just hope that apple still remembers what "pro" stands for.

 

[dotnet]

I am so hoping that I can use those new Macs to unlock my Apple Watch!

Oh, and I do like the graphic on the invitation. It means that Siri will be available in five more countries.

 

[xeio]

Anyone can make a wallpaper for the iphone which shown on the invitation apple logo?

 

[dotnet]

Anyone can make a wallpaper for the iphone which shown on the invitation apple logo?

Someone already did

http://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/10/19/apple-october-27-event-wallpapers-hello-again/

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Heh Whenever there is progress, someone is there to say "let's go slower, this generation wants everyting fast!"

True, but this generation does want everything without having to earn it first. We need to balance essential old schooling with modern technology. People even buy themselves fake followers now. Whatever happened to going out there and earning respect or brainwashing fools to follow you? Lol

 

[Nebulance]

I was in the Apple Store today to exchange a Thunderbolt cable (turns out I don't need it for my Dell U2515H monitor), one of the sales people told me something about Apple "working on a new display." So I guess we can be cautiously optimistic that they're doing something -- maybe. It would be nice if they had a new display to show at this event (?). Anyway, thought that would be an interesting thought to keep in the back of our minds.

 

[Count Blah]

Don't you think Apple knows that? If they are willing to throw away one of the biggest selling points of their laptop, I am sure Apple has a very good reason for wanting to do it.

Yes there is - "whatever we say/do, people will buy. So screw them, let's do what makes the most financial sense for Apple - customers be damned."

Do you have a counter example for this theory?

I'll give you several examples in my favor ...

• Apple letting Mac lines go years before updating, while still charging maximum price
• 2014 Mac mini line being a massive downgrade for the 2012 Mac mini
• Gluing EVERYHTING in, especially when there Is ZERO benefit to the customer
• Removal of 3.5mm plug, when the prior iPhone already had lightening port and bluetooth
• "Courage"
• Still selling 2012 13" cMBP for max $$$, because it's the only user upgradeable laptop
• EVERYTHING Mac Pro - this list alone would be huge
• Etc...

 

[au003]

No, I bought 2. Same price as one MBP, except with current hardware. Could not be happier with them.

Not to forget Windows 10 slays macOS.

 

[Feenician]

I can think of two from a non-technical perspective: not having to think about if you're plugging it in the right way around, and it being smaller (which should lead to smaller devices and adaptors down the road).

Yes, these. Plus: -

It supplies power. Enough to charge laptops

It's not just a replacement for USB-A, it's a replacement for thunderbolt too and can do everything thunderbolt can like carry DisplayPort.

 

[tampageek]

Removing the Mag Safe connector would be a stupid decision, imo. It's a great safety feature that keeps your computer safe in case someone trips over the cord. Why would they remove that and make us use USB-C to charge, intoducing the potential to seriously damage your Macbook?? This would be the ladt straw for me for the Macbook line. When I eventually replace my 2012 MBP I'll just buy an iMac.

That's exactly why their removing magsafe. Accidental damage is not covered by AppleCare. It seems they don't have enough confidence in their Mac's anymore to EARN repeat sales.

 

[Abazigal]

Yes there is - "whatever we say/do, people will buy. So screw them, let's do what makes the most financial sense for Apple - customers be damned."

Do you have a counter example for this theory?

I'll give you several examples in my favor ...

[/LIST]

I already gave one earlier. USB C can be used to supply display, data and power simultaneously, and you really do not want your data transfer being interrupted due to the slightest yank of the cable.

Imagine your MacBook being connected to a monitor like this and it all makes sense.

http://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-27UD88-W-4k-uhd-led-monitor

MagSafe made sense back when laptops used dedicated charging ports. If you are going to give your laptop a charging cable, might as well make it the best charging cable there is. Now, USB C is more than capable of fulfilling that role, and MagSafe simply isn't compatible with the concept of an all-in-one port.

As to your other points,

Apple letting Mac lines go years before updating, while still charging maximum price

We will have to see what Apple unveils next week. If it's a fairly significant update, at least we now know where the time and resources went to. But I expect more criticism to come if Apple does go ahead with the rumoured all-in move with USB C ports.

If it's just an obligatory spec refresh, then even I will have to admit that maybe even Apple doesn't care all that much about Macs anymore. Which may not be such a bad thing, because as a tech company, you need to keep looking forward and keep skating to where you believe the puck will be, rather than look back continuously. But it would be a shame, because if nothing else, I don't mind picking up a refreshed 5k iMac for home use a couple of years from today if and when my current 2011 iMac does eventually bite the dust.

2014 Mac mini line being a massive downgrade for the 2012 Mac mini

Fair enough. Soldered ram and lack of cd drive hardly makes this a better deal than an Apple TV for home entertainment.

Gluing EVERYHTING in, especially when there Is ZERO benefit to the customer

The benefit is that components take up less space, which is all the more important in space-constrained devices such as the MacBook Air.

I will admit that this is less relevant for a desktop Mac like the 21.5" iMac. Especially when the 27" iMac still lets you update the ram on your own.

Removal of 3.5mm plug, when the prior iPhone already had lightening port and bluetooth

I think the pros and cons of this has been beaten to death, and I have no wish to regurgitate that here. Suffice to say that I am in favour of the removal of the headphone jack, mainly because of the benefits and the new world order I believe it will bring in the future.

"Courage"

Phil admittedly could have explained it better, and I believe a better word would be "conviction". The conviction to do what you feel is right, in the belief that it will all work out in the end, even when it might seem that the whole world is against you at that moment.

Perhaps he didn't want to be seen to be shamelessly ripping off a line from Steve Jobs, but I will admit that wasn't one of his finer moments.

Still selling 2012 13" cMBP for max $$$, because it's the only user upgradeable laptop

And there hasn't been any new device to replace it. So no reason for a price drop. I am surprised that people still buy it though.

EVERYTHING Mac Pro - this list alone would be huge

The Mac Pro hasn't been updated in years because there isn't anything worth updating to begin with. Most tasks you would do on it are still CPU-bound, and the processors that the Mac Pro uses haven't seen that significant an update in recent years. Such that any performance benefit from such a refresh would be minimal at best and barely felt.

Likewise, I am aware that its new design has been very polarising. As an outsider looking in, I will admit that I find the design very sleek and utilitarian. Maybe I don't know your woes because I don't use a Mac Pro; but I like the trash can form factor very much and I find it pretty clever.

But that's just me.

Apple isn't like other normal PC companies. They are a design-first company, with their own priorities, beliefs and idiosyncrasies, and trying to use the same PC industry standards to judge Apple is not very meaningful because you are dealing with a company where such standards normally do not apply anyways.

 

[Count Blah]

Apple isn't like other normal PC companies. They are a design-first company...

You said it right there. They are a design first company, customer is a distant third. Prior to Timmy, the customer experience was highly considered - It might not have always been first, but it was a serious consideration. Not it truly is design, profit, and WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY over there in that dark corner of the room, is the customer consideration.

See my sig for my true feelings, in case you didn't know quite yet.

 

[Abazigal]

You said it right there. They are a design first company, customer is a distant third. Prior to Timmy, the customer experience was highly considered - It might not have always been first, but it was a serious consideration. Not it truly is design, profit, and WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY over there in that dark corner of the room, is the customer consideration.

See my sig for my true feelings, in case you didn't know quite yet.

I disagree.

When I say that Apple is a design-led company, what I mean is that they design the product with the end user experience of the consumer in mind. The key difference is that they are not afraid to think outside the box and challenge our commonly-held notions of what technology in general ought to look and feel and work like. Sometimes it works, sometimes it works but there is a huge cognitive dissonance at work, and sometimes it admittedly doesn't work as well.

Apple hasn't changed in this regard. What I feel has changed, however, is that with a changing business landscape, Apple is pivoting towards the future as it always has, and what made Apple successful in the past might not be deemed so important or relevant any more. We see it in their product lineup, where Apple is increasingly promoting the use of iPads as an alternative to PCs (including their own Macs), with their increased emphasis on content delivery (Apple Music and a rumoured video streaming service), and with their renewed push into schools and enterprise.

You are right in that in this new world order that Apple is creating, we may well have no place in it, because the new markets that they are moving into may not be markets that particularly interest us in the first place. So it's not so much that Apple has changed, but more that we as consumers haven't changed. Not to say it's our fault, but we can't expect a company to keep doing the same thing for twenty years straight (at least not Apple).

 

[EnderBeta]

I wouldn't. For me it's the other way around - it's not the thinness, it's the weight (one dictates the other). 2011. MBP was ok for 2011 (also - fun fact, there were people who asked it was thicker then as well). The current line of MBPs is fine, but not perfect. For Skylake chips, I expect something even lighter. Will that be good enough? Not really - one day I hope I can put something that basically looks like an iPad in my bag, but be ablet to run heavy, intensive programs on it.

See? We're different you and I. That's great - diversity is the key to creativity and productivity. The world needs people who are different. I'm not being cynical here, I really believe that. So you go and get a computer that has non retina thickness that you're prefectly fine with and where you can upgrade the RAM and storage. I gave you a good recommendation, I hear this HP workstation is honestly great. I'll go and get the new, thinner MacBook Pro - because I'm not perfectly fine with the current thinness. I'll just grab the maximum amount of RAM I need and a solid amount of storage and it will be fine for the next 2-3 years. I won't be able to upgrade them myself, but the lower weight and better mobility is a good trade-off for me.

As I said - I understand your needs - I just don't understand how you fail to realize mine are different. YOU are ok with a heavier computer that you can upgrade, I AM NOT. You guys keep acting like you are right and I am somehow wrong - I'm not wrong, my needs are different. Your way of work, your life style, your way of thinking - whatever - clearly appreciates - maybe even requires - the ability to upgrade your computer, maybe even tinker with it. You know what, there's a good chance you also like a different kind of food than me. Shocking.

All I'm saying is - that's not Apple and it never was. That's PC. Not all PCs, but some of them are EXACTLY like that. So, let me repeat my question: what are you doing here?
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ARM is not happening, at least not in a long while, relax.
[doublepost=1477149115][/doublepost]

Yes, so was the CD-ROM when it replaced a floppy drive. Come to think of it, every new technology was designed only to sell new devices, so let's go back to those cassette tapes we used on C-64!

Change for changes sake is not what drives the Apple I knew. Apple actually had a plan to make useful machines. A 2011 MacBook is far from super heavy and in no way the same thing as clinging to a c64 or vcr. You don't have to be insulting about it.

I feel maintaining the thickness in 2015 and putting in a dedicated GPU and a m.2 ssd with user changeable ram would be way more then enough to make me a happy camper.

I don't need a gimmick of thinner yet, and a LCD strip to replace the function keys and change the port to a new port to allow for it to be smaller.

Everything is aimed at planned obsolescence.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

Yes

As well as when the first iMac was introduced

But, I don't think there's going to be anything as ground-breaking as those 2 announcements. I think it's just Apple wanting to hype up the event a bit more due to the long wait.

I've heard some rumblings that Apple is planning on moving at least some of their machines over from Intel. Maybe that's interesting/groundbreaking enough?

Kind of funny - Apple moved from PPC to Intel so you could easily run the large number of Windows apps on their hardware and so they could release new hardware more often.

Now they're shifting from Intel to ARM for basically the same reason. Easily run the large number of iOS apps on their hardware and release new hardware more often.

 

[koyoot]

I've heard some rumblings that Apple is planning on moving at least some of their machines over from Intel. Maybe that's interesting/groundbreaking enough?

Kind of funny - Apple moved from PPC to Intel so you could easily run the large number of Windows apps on their hardware and so they could release new hardware more often.

Now they're shifting from Intel to ARM for basically the same reason. Easily run the large number of iOS apps on their hardware and release new hardware more often.

Apple engineers are not able to provide enough current to the CPUs because of the design of microarchitecture, for it to compete with high-end CPUs. There will not be 100W ARM CPU for very, very long time possible.

 

[aevan]

See my sig for my true feelings, in case you didn't know quite yet.

I keep asking this and still no answer - and your sig is the perfect example. If true - why are you still here?

 

[Yebubbleman]

"Hello again" sounds like what your ex says the first time he or she sees you after leaving you for another person. Sort of fitting in Apple's case given that their love and attention has all but completely shifted from the Mac platform and family of hardware to the iOS platform and family of hardware.

 

[Count Blah]

I keep asking this and still no answer - and your sig is the perfect example. If true - why are you still here?

I still hold out a little hope.

 

[aevan]

Change for changes sake is not what drives the Apple I knew. Apple actually had a plan to make useful machines. A 2011 MacBook is far from super heavy and in no way the same thing as clinging to a c64 or vcr. You don't have to be insulting about it.

I feel maintaining the thickness in 2015 and putting in a dedicated GPU and a m.2 ssd with user changeable ram would be way more then enough to make me a happy camper.

I don't need a gimmick of thinner yet, and a LCD strip to replace the function keys and change the port to a new port to allow for it to be smaller.

Everything is aimed at planned obsolescence.

I disagree with almost everything you said - except that maintaining the thickness and putting in a dedicated GPU would make you a happy camper: I believe you. It wouldn't make me happy, though - I don't need user changable RAM, I need it to be lighter.

I find it funny, though, that you already know that the LCD strip (actually, most likely OLED) will be a gimmick, even before anyone outside Apple knows what it is, but fine.

Here's the thing:

While we can't know with the exact certainty, I think we can both presume that Apple will continue doing what they have been doing for a while and that on 27th I will be happy and you will not. I feel almost ashamed to say it here - I'm one of the people who thought "courage" was a good explanation of what Apple does in tech - so, I'm guessing most of you just dismissed me as a fanboy. Fine, you're entitled to your opinion. I don't think there is any planned obsolence - and I think the software support for their product proves that, I think it's their willingness to push the industry forward. You think the opposite - it's ok - please don't try to convince me otherwise, you won't be able to (just as I won't be able to change your opinion).

Look, guys, I keep asking and I keep asking - but seriously - why do you still hang on to Apple? Why do you visit an Apple forum? We all know they are set on a path. We may argue if this is "Tim Cook's Apple" or if they have been like this under Jobs (in fact, I think everything you dislike about Apple has Steve Jobs written all over it - I think if he was alive today, he'd probably throw out even more ports, made things even thinner - he was just, perhaps, better at convincing people that it's the right decision). But - either way - whether this is the new or old Apple, I think we all know that they are not changing. So, seriously, why don't you leave for whatever suits you more? I come to these forums to discuss Apple products with people who actually like them, and to ask questions. But I have to go through all these "Apple is a joke" posts, and all those "Windows 10 destroys macOS" and all those "I'm not buying a Mac ever again" just to get to something useful. Please, really, guys - it's ok. There are other computers out there. Just leave, don't give your hard earned money to Apple any more, leave these forums and enjoy your lives. They are not going to make the computer you want. They are not. They are going to double down on everything you dislike about modern Macs. So just go and leave these forums to those of us who actually, you know, agree with most of things Apple does. So, for once, I can have a real discussion about Apple stuff (with criticism) with someone instead of - whatever this is.
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I still hold out a little hope.

While I can't predict the future, I can say with 99% certainty that your hope will remain unanswered. Everything points to that. So - it's time for you to change your computer company. You'll be happier, trust me. I'd do it without any problems if they made computers I didn't like (like the ones you described, for example).

So - and I don't mean this in a bad way: goodbye and good luck.
[doublepost=1477260681][/doublepost]

I disagree.

When I say that Apple is a design-led company, what I mean is that they design the product with the end user experience of the consumer in mind. The key difference is that they are not afraid to think outside the box and challenge our commonly-held notions of what technology in general ought to look and feel and work like. Sometimes it works, sometimes it works but there is a huge cognitive dissonance at work, and sometimes it admittedly doesn't work as well.

Apple hasn't changed in this regard. What I feel has changed, however, is that with a changing business landscape, Apple is pivoting towards the future as it always has, and what made Apple successful in the past might not be deemed so important or relevant any more. We see it in their product lineup, where Apple is increasingly promoting the use of iPads as an alternative to PCs (including their own Macs), with their increased emphasis on content delivery (Apple Music and a rumoured video streaming service), and with their renewed push into schools and enterprise.

You are right in that in this new world order that Apple is creating, we may well have no place in it, because the new markets that they are moving into may not be markets that particularly interest us in the first place. So it's not so much that Apple has changed, but more that we as consumers haven't changed. Not to say it's our fault, but we can't expect a company to keep doing the same thing for twenty years straight (at least not Apple).

This is an excellent summary and I agree completely.