Other Apple is slowing down older iPhones based on battery wear level [MERGED]

[Radon87000]

And hence should be subject to advanced power management by the software.

Which isn't happening as its scoring the same as it normally does on both of my battery worne devices. Its quite clear its happening thanks to those defective batteries to me. Power management doesn't make a 6s perform like an iPhone 6 and if it does its planned obsolescence to either make the user get a new phone or a newer battery. Apple gets cash either way

 

[Ries]

Why have power management at all then when you gave a chip on power. You brought up Intel.

To not use unnecessary power when it's not doing anything. They "hacked" the power management to slow the CPU instead of doing a emergency shutdown due to a power drop to avoid replacing tons of defective batteries (a.k.a the my phone suddenly died with 55% battery left fix) .

 

[brianjsw01]

At the end of the day, Apple has done something to slow affected phones down and didn't inform affected users that they were doing so. That is a violation of the trust relationship between the seller and the customer and my opinion of the company has dropped considerably as a result. That trust won't even begin to be restored until I see some transparency from Apple on this issue.

 

[Radon87000]

One more thing I have observed I think the batteries on the iPhone 6/6s just aren't good quality in general. I don't use my iPhone 6 all that much. I paid for a new battery on my 6 just a few months ago and its already at 94% health while my 7 Plus is at 98% after over 200 charge cycles. I think a lot of batteries are just defective. Note I am not using the phone all that much and I think the wear is too high

 

[I7guy]

To not use unnecessary power when it's not doing anything. They "hacked" the power management to slow the CPU instead of doing a emergency shutdown due to a power drop to avoid replacing tons of defective batteries (a.k.a the my phone suddenly died with 55% battery left fix) .

Here’s another scenario, to avoid dead phones Apple updated the power management algorithms to better deal with batteries that may not last. It gives the users the ability to not have their phone die while Apple is replacing batteries under a quality program. (Eg my phone is an example)
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Which isn't happening as its scoring the same as it normally does on both of my battery worne devices. Its quite clear its happening thanks to those defective batteries to me. Power management doesn't make a 6s perform like an iPhone 6 and if it does its planned obsolescence to either make the user get a new phone or a newer battery. Apple gets cash either way

You aren’t privy to any other factors the power management might take into account. All of this is conjecture unless Apple “comes clean” as you put it.

 

[Radon87000]

Here’s another scenario, to avoid dead phones Apple updated the power management algorithms to better deal with batteries that may not last. It gives the users the ability to not have their phone die while Apple is replacing batteries under a quality program. (Eg my phone is an example)

The battery program is only there for the 6s. The 7 and 6 are also affected. And these are very expensive phones. Why should an iPhone 6s/7 perform like a OnePlus budget phone? They should perform at the advertised speed. In fact they were running at the advertised speed before they were slowed down and users were asked to pay

 

[C DM]

One more thing I have observed I think the batteries on the iPhone 6/6s just aren't good quality in general. I don't use my iPhone 6 all that much. I paid for a new battery on my 6 just a few months ago and its already at 94% health while my 7 Plus is at 98% after over 200 charge cycles. I think a lot of batteries are just defective. Note I am not using the phone all that much and I think the wear is too high

Various things there could be variables. The battery you got might not have been at optimal life when you got it in case it might have been stored for some time, for example. Not using your device much can actually lead to some battery wear too in the sense that li-ion batteries like to be in use more often than they aren't as far as healt goes. Then there's also the capacity/health reading themselves that can a times vary at least a bit. I've had some show up in mid/high 80s for a few days and then appear as low/mid 90s some days later. Not saying that there certainly can't be more to it all, but some variables of this sort can play into it all as well.

 

[I7guy]

Why should an iPhone 6s/7 perform like a OnePlus budget phone? They should perform at the advertised speed. In fact they were running at the advertised speed before they were slowed down and users were asked to pay

Maybe the battery was abused. Maybe with 1 billion idevices some batteries are defective. It happens Samsung knows.

Exactly what is the advertised speed? Does power management enter into any of this?

 

[Radon87000]

Maybe the battery was abused. Maybe with 1 billion idevices some batteries are defective.

Abused batteries show up as problems on Apple diagnostics. My iPhone 6 did and it failed the battery test. Also matched the readings of coconut battery which showed it below 80%.

If the batteries are defective why isn't Apple replacing them for free and why aren't they clarifying on this?

Exactly what is the advertised speed?

Does power management enter into any of this?

Power management does not result in a phone which is half the speed the moment it is off the charger. If it does, Apple should clarify on this. But if they don't its seen as malicious by customers like me because $1200 isn't pocket change. I paid for iPhone X performance. Not the 6s/7 which is a cheaper phone
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Various things there could be variables. The battery you got might not have been at optimal life when you got it in case it might have been stored for some time, for example. Not using your device much can actually lead to some battery wear too in the sense that li-ion batteries like to be in use more often than they aren't as far as healt goes. Then there's also the capacity/health reading themselves that can a times vary at least a bit. I've had some show up in mid/high 80s for a few days and then appear as low/mid 90s some days later. Not saying that there certainly can't be more to it all, but some variables of this sort can play into it all as well.

Its not that I don't use it at all. Definitely gets used for an hour or more everyday. But I am starting to think this phone is going to suffer from the same throttling issue as wear seems accelerated to me. I think I wasted my cash buying a battery for this if its going to deteriorate this fast.

 

[I7guy]

Abused batteries show up as problems on Apple diagnostics. My iPhone 6 did and it failed the battery test. Also matched the readings of coconut battery which showed it below 80%.

If the batteries are defective why isn't Apple replacing them for free and why aren't they clarifying on t



Power management does not result in a phone which is half the speed the moment it is off the charger. If it does, Apple should clarify on this. But if they don't its seen as malicious by customers like me because $1200 isn't pocket change. I paid for iPhone X performance. Not the 6s/7 which is a cheaper phone

Okay the redacted bolded isn’t an advertised speed it’s a performance claim. I don’t see MHz or geekbench scores in that.

As far as the batteries they still might have been abused. How do you know the device wasn’t left in the sun or the freezer. Things that would degrade the battery but not affect the battery cycles ?

I don’t see Apple having to clarify anything even if I had this issue.

As far as your iPhone X it seems the power management algorithms writing is on the wall. Your iPhone X could behave like a 6s if the battery is failing.

 

[Radon87000]

Okay the redacted bolded isn’t an advertised speed it’s a performance claim. I don’t see MHz or geekbench scores in that.

It's not performing like the other phones. Some of the iPhone 6s/7 are not only slower than their counteparts they are as slow as previous gen devices. The device is also not warning he user that the CPU is throttled because of a bad battery.

As far as the batteries they still might have been abused. How do you know the device wasn’t left in the sun or the freezer. Things that would degrade the battery but not affect the battery cycles ?

Because the posts have screen shots showing battery Wear at 85%.

I don’t see Apple having to clarify anything even if I had this issue.

As far as your iPhone X it seems the power management algorithms writing is on the wall. Your iPhone X could behave like a 6s if the battery is failing.

So basically you have no,problem with Apple charging the customer for a defective battery which is not his own fault.

And if my battery is failing in just a year Apple should replace it for free as it's a fault in their product.

 

[Ries]

Here’s another scenario, to avoid dead phones Apple updated the power management algorithms to better deal with batteries that may not last. It gives the users the ability to not have their phone die while Apple is replacing batteries under a quality program. (Eg my phone is an example)

Then they could give you a warning that the battery is bad and they are throttling the phone, but the don't do that do they? Simple as making the battery icon yellow (or something). They sweep it under a rug and hoped body found it before the warranty is out.

 

[Radon87000]

Guess this report got a counter in just 2 months.

Proof-
http://www.zdnet.com/article/is-app...chmarking-firm-settles-the-question-for-good/


Counter-
https://hothardware.com/news/apple-accused-of-throttling-performance-on-iphones-with-aging-batteries
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Then they could give you a warning that the battery is bad and they are throttling the phone, but the don't do that do they? Simple as making the battery icon yellow (or something). They sweep it under a rug and hoped body found it before the warranty is out.

They do warn you if your Wear level is high. If you visit the battery settings they will say your battery needs to be replaced but those who have this hrottling aren't getting the notification. Suspicious indeed.

 

[ipooed]

The reality is people whose batteries are worn down and who drain quickly, are claiming they are being throttled by apple to save battery life as part of some planned obsolescence maneuver.

You forgot to add, at the same time they refuse to replace the battery even if the customer is willing to pay. it's "within their standards" despite the end users experiencing issues forcing the customer to deal with it, take it to a third party or upgrade to a newer device.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

My iPad Air 2 is at 91% wear and has none of this downclocking. So this voltage problem isn’t it.

I wonder at what level "battery capacity decrease/wear" does the system throttle the CPU speed, or if it detects a bad cell and decreased voltage, or what?

My iPad Mini 4 is at 92% capacity and for some reason, at 3/4 of a full charge on the battery meter, the CPU is not throttled in CPUDasherX and my GeekBench are normal.

However, loading Apps on one of our older A8 Devices with decent or new batteries (IP mini 4 or iPhone 6) with iOS 11 is still noticeably slower than it was on iOS 10, vs iOS 11 on our A10 iPhone 7 and 7+. iOS 11 optimization is still a problem on anything older than an A9 processor, from what I've been reading.

I'd have to see what my iPad Mini 4 does when it's closer to 20% charge with 92% battery wear, but at least at 92% capacity it's not throttled when it's closer to full charge. It still has a lot of useful capacity, and my battery apps were estimating that I'd still get 8 hours of surfing or movies on the 80% charge.
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The reality is people whose batteries are worn down and who drain quickly, are claiming they are being throttled by apple to save battery life as part of some planned obsolescence maneuver; that's the strawman. No doubt apple will replace batteries as needed provided they meet the eligibility criteria.

As for phones prior to the 6, people were complaining about battery life from the get go. IMO, apple has refined and continues to refine it's power management algorithms to provide the longest battery life possible; maybe at the expense of speed.

What if the eligibility criteria is too stringent to meet, and unreasonable?
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Right, there's nothing like pissing off your customer base to guarantee future product purchases and hence revenue.
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How would I (or anyone) know an answer to a question like that? Perceptually the answer could be yes as in two years there will be an a14 bionic.

Sometimes we're too committed to the OS ecosystem to defect to the other camp easily. And I'd want the A11 Bionic to perform like an A11 Bionic in 2 years (not an A9), regardless of iOS and CPU updates, but the reality is that in 2 years I do expect it to become just as sluggish and unresponsive as Apple Customer Service is now.

 

[I7guy]

It's not performing like the other phones. Some of the iPhone 6s/7 are not only slower than their counteparts they are as slow as previous gen devices. The device is also not warning he user that the CPU is throttled because of a bad battery.

When did Apple ever display a batter message?

Because the posts have screen shots showing battery Wear at 85%.

And it’s preps of what exactly?

So basically you have no,problem with Apple charging the customer for a defective battery which is not his own fault.

Straw man.

And if my battery is failing in just a year Apple should replace it for free as it's a fault in their product.

They should. Don’t know if it always happened like that.

 

[chillip]

My mini 4 is 2 years old and battery is at 92% and benchmarks perfectly.

 

[chillip]

When did Apple ever display a batter message?


And it’s preps of what exactly?


Straw man.


They should. Don’t know if it always happened like that.

Look at my posts yesterday about my 7. Had to pay for new battery. Crap service. I have complained and they have requested a refund via online chat but not guaranteed.

 

[617660]

People ask me why I keep buying iPhones despite having continual problems with them. The reality is there is no such thing as voting with your wallet. Apple’s going to do what Apple’s going to do. I am sure there were many who didn’t buy the X to oppose Apple and their high prices. Result- Apple to introduce an even higher priced model next year.

Samsung’s phones started catching fire and they are still doing extremely well by Android standards. If they can get away with a exploding battery, this battery fiasco is just small time for Apple and voting with your wallet will achieve nothing.

They probably did a cost benefit analysis and the conclusion arrived at was the loss in revenue was lesser than the cost to be incurred recalling and refunding the wrongly charged customers and hence they aren’t bothered to fix the problem.

Voting with your wallet is the only way Corporate America will listen. Can't excuse yourself by making hundreds of complaints online only to turn around giving Apple more business. If this is what you do, wondering why voting with wallet hasn't worked to your favor is an oxymoron.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

If I pay $1200 for a phone and so does someone else and if both our phones have similar levels of wear after 2 years, you don't think its unfair his phone is half speed of my phone?

After two years if it's battery or speed, I'll take battery any day, if it's my phone.

The current scenario which is happening is at the exact same level of battery wear, one iPhone is throttling, one is not. Note at the exact same level of battery wear

With all the trouble Apple goes through to try to give everyone the same phone experience, including crippling the high speed internet on Qualcomm chips so that they underperform to the same levels as Intel modems, you'd think they'd also have a problem with letting two different users have different experiences with CPU speed and battery life in iPhones that are the same age with the same battery wear.

My concerns are:

(1) I keep saying that I don't think it's unreasonable to limit the CPU speed and therefore the battery consumption to make up for increased battery wear in aging batteries, or when the charge level drops below 20%, but the user should be informed that this may happen or is happening.

Maybe we should also be given the option to not decrease performance, such as if they know that they can get to a charger sooner than later, although not decreasing performance isn't a good option for a defective battery that will result in a sudden and premature shutdown. This is an area where I agree with I7guy EXCEPT for the secretive way Apple handles this so the majority of users are left in the dark.

These users don't know that a replacement battery will fix the problem, and Apple tells them the battery is good, and then said user goes out and buys a newer phone to get back up to speed. That feels like a deceptive trade practice to me.

(2) Apple should be better able to distinguish between an aging battery with reasonable wear, and a failing battery that doesn't meet specs during the warranty period and that should be replaced as defective. Their standard for allowing a battery to degrade to 80% of capacity over a 2 year period is way too conservative, and they make customers fight or appeal for the replacement.

(3) (a) Some people with a worn battery will simply get less battery life without shutdowns, and just see 10-20% reduced runtime, etc. (b) Other people will have the phone suddenly die when indicating 20% or even 30% on the charge level, which is not normal. (c) And others may see their battery drop 1% for every 2-3 minutes of use which is excessive and abnormal.
TO ME THE FORMER ISSUE IS NORMAL IF WEAR IS OVER A REASONABLE TIME, BUT THE LATER 2 ISSUES COULD INDICATE A DEFECTIVE BATTERY OR SOME OTHER PROBLEM. Apple seems to have addressed all of the issues with the same solution, which is to reduce the clock speed in order to stretch the battery life, even when the battery should be replaced.

 

[I7guy]

These users don't know that a replacement battery will fix the problem, and Apple tells them the battery is good, and then said user goes out and buys a newer phone to get back up to speed. That feels like a deceptive trade practice to me.

While I don't defend deceptive practices I don't go slinging mud or jumping to conclusions either. However this is just a "strawman argument" as the saying goes.

 

[Superposisjon]

If it doesn't affect the vast majority of people, it's not a real issue.

If it's a stranger making a complaint with proof and subsequently others voiced out with similar issue, it's not a real issue. Because this amounts to just 5 out of millions of Apple customers.

If people can't be bothered to put hours into gathering stats to prove his point, it's not a real issue. Because let's face it, all real issue needs hard cold stats.

And because my 5s is running just fine, this serves as a proof that any complaint about Apple slowing down old device is non-sense.

There. I win.

5s is not affected by this problem so it's not relevant but apparently it was obviously a big enough problem on phones like 6, 6s of 7 that Apple create their own algorithm installed in all phones to hide it

It's hard to get statistic about how many people who are affected when Apple tries to hide the problem and very few of the users of iPhone are searching on forums like Reddit and MacRumors when they're having trouble
and announces it.

I guess you also would have trouble coming up with statistic about how many people that are not affected.


I think this could be a lawyer's wet dream. in Norway where I live, the owners of Tesla Model S P85D went to court for compensation because they believe the effect their electric car was lower than what the car manufacturer claimed in the marketing and sales process.

The cars were announced with 700 horsepower, but it was far from what was measured in practice.
Tesla lost and had to pay about $ 6000 in compensation to each of the owners

 

[Puddled]

So why would apple hobble iphones who's batteries have worn if it isnt a back door for planned obsolescence ?

To have the user think that in fact the battery isnt worn so that warranty returns are reduced?

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

While I don't defend deceptive practices I don't go slinging mud or jumping to conclusions either. However this is just a "strawman argument" as the saying goes.

I don't care what you want to call what they're doing, but I think it stinks.

 

[newellj]

Was that an Apple battery?

One more thing I have observed I think the batteries on the iPhone 6/6s just aren't good quality in general. I don't use my iPhone 6 all that much. I paid for a new battery on my 6 just a few months ago and its already at 94% health while my 7 Plus is at 98% after over 200 charge cycles. I think a lot of batteries are just defective. Note I am not using the phone all that much and I think the wear is too high