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If Apple knew EVERYTHING, then why not start producing it right NOW?

There are always unknowns up until the last minute for any hardware/software release.

Prototypes are created over and over again... then things are tested in the real world that like cellular strength... then tweaks are made and another prototype is created.... and so on... Just because something is on paper doesn't mean it can be produced in the real world exactly like it was on paper.

Most of the people commenting on this website or any other forum for that matter don't have any idea how manufacturing/Supply Chain works.
I Understand because most of the manufacturing is done outside US now so lot of people don't work in manufacturing in US anymore.
I am sure Apple will still be fixing manufacturing/quality issues till the last minute, nobody is 100% sure which technology works till they start making in large quantities, they evaluate the risk & decide to go with it.
If they don't take the risk then some Chinese phone manufacturing company will get hold of the technology & bring it to market before Apple does.
 
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Pretty sure Samsung will beat them to market on this one (likely S9). Since Samsung is the one actually engineering and building the components, and Apple just "arranges" them.

BTW, The S8 buttonless home button feels really nice, way better that Craptic Touch™ on the iPhone.

It sounds like you think Samsung is Apple's only supplier, or that Apple doesn't do any actual engineering. You're wrong. And I wouldn't call Apple's "arranging" of their SoC design to be anything to laugh at- it beats Samsung's best year after year. I hear the S8 is finally as fast as a 6s...
 
If they can't integrate it under the screen fast enough they should either have it very supply constrained at launch or delayed by a month or two.
No crap on the back and facial recognition isn't a reliable alternative imo.
 
What's wrong with the current Touch ID design? It works so well that I can't think of any reason to mess with it.

It requires a physical button. Apple wants to remove the home button in favor of more screen real-estate, or for the purported "functional bar". Their plan is to integrate the home button, placed relatively in the same spot, as a 3D-Touch activated digital button, with Touch ID integrated under the glass itself beneath where the digital button would be. Essentially, creating a perfectly digital emulation of the previous physical home button, so as to maintain a feeling of familiarity. Like the iPhone 7's home button, except it's digital and Touch ID is hidden underneath the precise screen space below it.
 
What about when it's lying on a desk? Or sitting upright in a dock?

The user always has to look at the screen, ergo the most convenient place to have it is facing the user. If you have to turn the device over to switch the phone on or to hit a sensor you cannot see it's a UX failure because it's adding an extra step in the natural user method.

If it is more convenient to have buttons on the back then why not add all of them there? Including all the screen button prompts? The sensor is mostly virtual now anyway so the mechanics are more similar to a virtual button than a real one.

You wouldn't because buttons of any kind, even those that have tactile interfaces, work best when you can see them. The only time a button that's hidden from view works (control sticks, levers etc) is when your hand never moves from the same position for the duration of the activity. That's not the case with a phone that requires constant facing input.

That is a good point. I guess I'm just one of those weird people that almost never unlocks my phone when it's sitting on a table/desk/whatever. I always have it in my hand when I'm using it.

As for the sensor itself - touch sensitive, no mechanical button. When picking up the phone, my finger naturally lands on the back in the center, and that would be good enough to unlock it.
 
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Pretty sure Samsung will beat them to market on this one (likely S9). Since Samsung is the one actually engineering and building the components, and Apple just "arranges" them.

BTW, The S8 buttonless home button feels really nice, way better that Craptic Touch™ on the iPhone.

Samsung doesn't make touch ID for Apple.
Samsung manufactures the processors designed by Apple using ARM IP. Samsung doesn't make all the processors either.
And may be Samsung makes memory & RAM for Apple thats about it, I don't think Samsung supplies display so far for Apple, Samsung may make display for next generation iPhone.
Apple Touch ID is the best.
Samsung touch ID sucks, it is awkward to be on the back.
And facial recognition on S8 is a joke, phone can be unlocked using a picture ?
 
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Touch ID on the display was indeed the logical way to go but to my knowledge this has not been done before. Today's touch screens can detect touch, movement, pressure or even how many fingers are on it but to read those tiny grooves on our fingers still require a separate kind of sensor. Putting this "full screen" sensor in another layer on the display without affecting it must be tremendously difficult for Apple. Even if it is possible, probably not mass-produceable. If it was, they would have put tiny displays under those sapphire glass touch ID buttons on today's iPhones. Just my two cents.
 
Because the tech world has decided bezels are evil. If Apple releases another phone without reduced top and bottom bezels they will be killed by the tech press.
Not just the tech press. Tech blog commenters have been whining about bezels for years!
 
I've used phones with fingerprint readers on the back and have had no issues. I don't understand why everyone is beating the same drum to say it's awkward. Do people live in infomercial land where adults have no coordination and struggle to open milk jugs and crack eggs?


I found with a case, there are a RPITA and the only people that don't think that are the ones that 1) Have never used a case or 2) Have never actually used one on the back.
 
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Maybe well have to wait another year. but well get new emojis for sure

Because the same engineers that develop fingerprint sensors also work on emojis?
Please don't put Touch ID on the back of the iPhone. If they can't put it in the screen they should just delay it until they get it right.

The people at Apple responsible for making this decision probably will not read your post.
 
Not just the tech press. Tech blog commenters have been whining about bezels for years!
Obviously there are tradeoffs with everything. For me though losing Touch ID all together or having the sensor on the back of the phone is a non-starter. It's amazing how people complain about fork over function (and knock Apple for it all the time) yet are so obsessed with no bezels they want Apple to implement that design at any cost, even if it degrades function. I don't get it.
 
Seems like they would have been working on this since the iPhone 6 came out considering the 7 had no real design changes. I dunno.
 
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I'm not surprised; this seems like a huge task.

A completed iPhone 8 display would need to:
  • Be a screen
  • Have a capacitive touch surface
  • Maintain ForceTouch's pressure sensitivity
  • AND have a fingerprint sensor… somewhere

You forgot one ... and maintain at least as high security with the fingerprint sensor. If the extra glass and sensors make it less accurate ( and/or more easily fooled by a dead cold plastic fake) then haven't really done much.

along the lines of adding facial recognition that is defeated by an extraordinary picture. It is feature creep without any real utility.
 
Nothing wrong with putting the Touch ID Sensor on the back of the phone. It may not be convenient since you need to pick up a phone off a table or desk, but the emphasis is being put on facial/Iris detection. As long as the sensor is always on and doesn't need an active backlit screen to activate, it should be fine.

There's a lot wrong with putting the Touch ID on the back. For example, unlocking the phone when it's in a case, installed in a cradle in a car, or laying on a desk. A minority of users don't run across any of these use cases, but for most users they are deal breakers.
 
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Take your time Apple and get it right. I don't want a TouchID-less phone that I have to bring up to my face to unlock or having to fumble on the back for the right spot.
If the iPhone 8 does not have features that you like. Keep the one you currently have. It is perfectly acceptable to keep your phone for longer than one, two or even three generations. Its a great way to save money and reduce the impact on the environment. I see people walking around using iPhones 4/4s. They may not have all the newest features or abilities but they still are very functional to most people's needs and wants.
 
So all this means if true is the first generation of iPhone 8 that implements this will value form over function, again, and TouchID will once again be flaky and unusable until the iPhone 8s at least. All this to try and quickly shoehorn a feature to make the phone follow trends already set in motion by their competition.

I agree that putting it on the back is not the greatest solution, but it does work very well on every phone I have seen with it, except for the S8 I have not tried it with the off-center placement and I hear bad things about that design choice.

However I thought Synaptics already has a solution for finger print sensor under glass up to 1 mm, so is Apple even considering this as an option or just bullishly moving forward rolling there own crappy version for courage sakes.
 
Like you said, he's a supply-chain guy, not a visionary 'innovation guy'. And he seems incapable of adequately curating ideas from within Apple.

That has nothing to do with the point at hand. There is an idea here - a bezel free phone with a fingerprint sensor under the display. Yet this, and countless other products seem to be delayed.
 
If Touch ID is degraded in any fashion from what I have in my iPhone 6S, then there will be another reason to not buy the 8. A nice secure fingerprint reader that is fast and which accesses financial matters like Apple Pay and PayPal is key. The infinity sceen is a nice looking design feature, but not a productivity feature. So it is lower priority for me and I suspect many others.
 
Actually, IMHO, I think the back side is the perfect place for the Touch-ID sensor, I'd even prefer that it be back there. The perfect spot is where the Apple logo currently resides. My index finger lands there perfectly every time I'm using my phone, and since my finger is already there, it would actually be more convenient than having the sensor at the current location on the home button (or integrated into the screen).

People would quickly get used to the fp reader on the back of the phone. There's nothing awkward about touching the back of the phone. The only real drawback would be cases, thus necessitating a cutout. Some cases already do that to highlight the apple logo on the phone.

Since Apple places the camera on the back corner of the phone, having the ID sensor on the back in the middle would not interfere with the camera lens. The Apple logo can be moved anywhere since it's not important to any actual functions. I think integrating the sensor into the screen is a waste of engineering effort.
Or they could just make the logo the sensor, but that would be dependent upon the internal component layout.

Apple should also name this phone "iPhone Edition" and not bring out version "8" this year, that way they can "divorce" Shamesung from co-opting the iPhone naming scheme. (7s vs s7, 8s vs s8, etc.)
Your quote was reasonable until you got here. It makes no sense at all. Samsung and Apple arriving at the same number on phone models is purely coincidence. An unintended coincidence caused by Apple's numbering scheme, not Samsung's. Sammy's scheme is a simple number progression (Galaxy S, S2, S3... S8). If Apple used a simple number progression Samsung's numbers never would have lined up. To highlight further, Sammy's S8 will be Apple's 7S (we don't know the name of the 8/X/Edition/Pro model), Sammy's S9 will be Apple's 8, S10 to 8S, S11 to 9. So, yeah. No co-opting
 
As long as they don't pull a Samsung and put it awkwardly on the back. I'm betting that back facing fingerprint sensors are going away when this technology comes out on the market. I'd much rather keeping the button like on the iPhone 7 one more year and have them nail it 2018 instead!
 
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