Apple Joins Nearly 100 U.S. Firms to File Legal Brief Opposing Trump's Immigration Ban

[symphara]

Don't get me wrong - I'm on your side here, and the analogy is appropriate. But the current travel ban is a poor implementation of a good idea. Women and children who have been here for years - legally - were being stranded at airports and overseas because of their whatever (ID/visa/etc) being suspended, and that isn't right.

The ban should have stopped all new (and perhaps recent) immigration to the country, rather than punishing those who have been here for a long time with no criminal history. Just my two cents.

I agree, and actually I think they should have honoured all the existing visas. After jumping through all the hoops with application forms, photos, interviews, fees etc it's really bad faith to be told "sorry but that was for nothing".

Add the fact that probably many made travel arrangements, bought plane tickets etc. And they have no recourse and no reimbursement.

Even accepting at face-value that these 7 countries had insufficient vetting and thus a temporary ban was necessary to put in place more rigorous checks, this was done in the thoughtless and insensitive manner that probably characterises the new president.

 

[MNJohn]

Trump had a good majority of americans agreeing with him so Apple is now telling most of its customers they are stupid.

You are either sadly misinformed or creating your own "alternative" facts.

Trump lost the popular vote to Clinton by 2.9 million votes (http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/21/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-popular-vote-final-count/).

Recommend you focus your energy on fixing the Brexit mess for which you most likely voted.

 

[Rocketman]

What I find interesting is this sort of thing happens all the time, but this President was very public about signing an Executive Order, so the resulting attention motivated his critics to take up the issue.

Typically after such an order, there are several "carve-outs" done by the regulator of jurisdiction, in this case DHS, to allow for example H1B visas, Green Cards, and traditional visas, probably in that order after a review of the persons to see if they have been added to any watch lists or are related to persons who have.

This "rush" by the critics to bypass that process is more of a political position than a legal one in this regard.

I find it interesting the critics are "rushing" to get this case through the Federal courts in hopes of getting this to the Supreme court on an "emergency" basis while it is still 4-4 not 5-4 ideologically.

This is this President's first large scale political fight.

The DHS Secretary was JUST seated late this week. So the timing is not suspect. It is an attack while they are not set to respond with the proper administrative orders supporting the Executive Order. Political.

Simultaneously his Education Secretary needs his Justice nominee to vote while he is still a Senator to get her through with an unprecedented vote from the VP who is President of the Senate.

Once the Ed Sec is appointed, he can get Justice through and in about 2 months or so his SCOTUS pick. Interesting times and political machinations Obama was not subjected to. D sour grapes and mindless push back against the inevitable.

 

[DaveOP]

So 100 US companies that don't want to hire Americans. #boycott

Can you quote me that part where Apple does not want to hire Americans? Several of my American friends who work there might disagree with you. Wanting to be able to hire anyone, based on their talent, is not the same as "not wanting to hire Americans".

 

[Macinva]

A) Apple and other companies should stick to making their products, not diving into politics. iOS is buggy enough as it is at the moment. B) There's way too many "experts" on the forums that know everything which are typically the same ones that will call you out instantly if you don't agree with their views and opinions. I can't help but laugh and shake my head at some of the members of this site...

 

[jlasoon]

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me"

I am glad Apple and other businesses are speaking out.

The Muslim Ban is illegal, immoral, and against everything for which this nation stands. If the moral argument doesn't resonate - as it often doesn't with Republicans - then perhaps the more pragmatic approach will. The ban actually makes us less safe, according to several subject matter experts, including a former CIA chief. It doesn't take a genius to make a connection here. The ban is on countries that have not produced any terrorists - but now they might and any counter intelligence work we're doing there will be jeopardized. It will hurt our economy on many levels - retaliatory policies of affected countries, brain drain, and more. It will alienate our allies and friends all over the world - just read the responses from foreign leaders.

It sets a dangerous precedent and can be seen as a preemptive attack our own civil rights. Permanent resident cards being suspended is only a short step away from citizenships being revoked and interment camps being setup. Remember when America suspended habeas corpus and held, without trial or probable cause, her own citizens in concentration camps? All this because of their national origin. Meanwhile, 400,000 Americans were to die defending the world from Fascism. Ironic, isn't it...This practice didn't make us safer then and it sure as hell doesn't make us safer now.

We are supposed to be the land of the free and the home of the brave. Instead we are acting like a bunch of cowards, ready to act out of fear and anxiety. We have elected a man with an unhealthy obsession with dictators and his own image. We are taking away human rights and dignity in the name of protectionism. We recoil in fear instead of boldly standing for what we believe. These are the same values previous generations willingly fought to defend and died preserving.

On a personal level, ask how much more freedom are you willing to give up in exchange for the false sense of security afforded by these types of policies? We should all ask this question...

My two cents.

Let me guess, you're a good little progressive who voted for the righteous Clinton?

"We came, he saw, he died" <----------- Laugh uncontrollably as you destabilize the Middle East

And who can forget this one

Trump Ends 'wet foot dry foot' policy for all those evil Cubans fleeing communist Cuba. Progressives outraged!

 

[trainwrecka]

Actually, it was not a majority of Americans agreeing - it was a minority. So you are wrong from the start.

I didn't vote for Trump and don't trust him, but every time this popular vote nonsense is brought up, it makes any valid point a liberal would want to make less credible. Both candidates ran campaigns to WIN the Electoral College votes - NOT the popular vote. Both campaigns would have been run very differently if they were popular vote campaigns. There are A LOT of Trump voters who didn't vote, because they knew there State was going red or blue. Same is true of Democratic voters.

As long as you all think the election was "stolen", you'll never get anywhere. The riots and protesting are only converting more people to Trump supporters. There needs to be some serious self-reflection with what happened with Bernie, the Wikileaks craziness, and why you would put someone like Hillary forward when no one really wanted her.

Remember, I didn't vote for Trump. Haven't voted Republican in a looooooooooong time. You and I probably agree on a lot of the issues, including this "ban".

 

[shk718]

Silly move and symptomatic of Apple's exaggerated sense of its own importance. Trump had a good majority of americans agreeing with him so Apple is now telling most of its customers they are stupid.

'a good majority of americans agreeing with him" - seems like you have some alternative facts going on there. https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...ng-sinks-to-record-low-after-second/21707482/

 

[symphara]

The exact wording of the order is:
"I hereby proclaim that the immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens from countries referred to in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12), would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and I hereby suspend entry into the United States, as immigrants and nonimmigrants, of such persons for 90 days from the date of this order..."

While it does not use the word "ban" if I suspend entry of you from my place of business I have banned you from entering. Ban is easier to understand and explain and thus the term to use. Trump now is walking back from the original order while trying to deflect criticism to others.

What this episode strikingly shows me is how a black-and-white thinking, which cannot perceive any nuances, dominates both the media, the politicians, and sadly, much of the public, as your (and others) posts show.

I have no problem accepting this is a ban. I used the very word myself. What you and others seem utterly incapable of understanding is that this is no "immigration ban" and no "Muslim ban".

It's not an "immigration ban" because it doesn't apply to immigration in general. Most non-US persons are unaffected by the executive order in question and can still immigrate to the US. Immigration doesn't mean mere entrance to the US either, but entrance with the goal of remaining.

It's not a "Muslim ban" because it doesn't apply to all Muslims. In fact it doesn't apply to the vast majority of Muslims. It doesn't even selectively apply to Muslims in the 7 countries in question.

By framing this temporary entry ban as an "immigration ban" or "Muslim ban" - essentially using false, deliberately inflammatory language - it's easy to overreact, posture, virtue signal your liberal values (I use the term in the classical, not US sense).

I don't agree with the way the measure was implemented myself, as I explained above. But willingly embracing a false narrative in respect to this executive order strikes me as a sort of sickness, in a society which doesn't seem to be able to come to terms on anything, anymore.

 

[jlasoon]

He has the mouth of a child that never outgrew its pacifier

I can't wait for the new Syrian/Yemeni designed progressively with 'good feelings' in California iPhone 8.
[doublepost=1486392117][/doublepost]

'a good majority of americans agreeing with him" - seems like you have some alternative facts going on there. https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...ng-sinks-to-record-low-after-second/21707482/

Is this the same alternative fact poll that had Trump losing MI, PA, WI, OH, FL, IO & NC?

"We came, he saw, he died" -Hillary (champion of progressive movement)

 

[Huntn]

Silly move and symptomatic of Apple's exaggerated sense of its own importance. Trump had a good majority of americans agreeing with him so Apple is now telling most of its customers they are stupid.

A good majority?

 

[jlasoon]

A good majority?

"Hillary Clinton has a 93.4% chance of winning the Presidency."

 

[nia820]

How is it that after an event like the Mosque shooting in Canada, millions of Christians around the world stand up and say they support and respect their Muslim brothers and denounce the attack. Yet when it's a Muslim extremist who drives a truck through a crowded Christmas market, the Muslim community is silent?

Where are you getting the Muslim community is silent ? Muslim community always condemns terrorist attacks but it never makes the news because the media prefers to villianize Muslims.

After each one of those attacks, many prominent Islamic imams condemned and did Friday sermons discussing the evils of terrorism.

 

[citysnaps]

Silly move and symptomatic of Apple's exaggerated sense of its own importance. Trump had a good majority of americans agreeing with him so Apple is now telling most of its customers they are stupid.

Tiny alternative facts. So adorable!

 

[MrX8503]

Terrorist attacks can come from anywhere. It doesn't make sense to ban countries.

The San Bernardino terrorist attack was committed by a US citizen.

Silly move and symptomatic of Apple's exaggerated sense of its own importance. Trump had a good majority of americans agreeing with him so Apple is now telling most of its customers they are stupid.

Hillary won the popular vote by 3M. The majority of city dwellers and those with college degrees voted for her. Most voters in the rural areas voted for Trump.

With these facts, you think the majority of Apple customers voted for Trump?

 

[TechGeek76]

Don't waste your time responding to people who don't believe FACTS and live in some alternate reality.

How pathetically ironic. You DO realize that the Dems did this the entire election? Of course you don't, you are one of them and so far removed from reality that it's scary.

 

[JackieInCo]

And yet, nearly one in two Americans still are in favour of Trump. Mind-boggling.

I keep wondering why myself. I'm glad these companies are standing up for what is right.

 

[TechGeek76]

A good number of Americans supporting him? Since apparently I'm not allowed to insult people who just make crap up on this board.... I'll leave it at that.

As you make up crap, irony at it's finest here folks.

 

[jlc1978]

What this episode strikingly shows me is how a black-and-white thinking, which cannot perceive any nuances, dominates both the media, the politicians, and sadly, much of the public, as your (and others) posts show.

I have no problem accepting this is a ban. I used the very word myself. What you and others seem utterly incapable of understanding is that this is no "immigration ban" and no "Muslim ban".

It's not an "immigration ban" because it doesn't apply to immigration in general. Most non-US persons are unaffected by the executive order in question and can still immigrate to the US. Immigration doesn't mean mere entrance to the US either, but entrance with the goal of remaining.

I don't recall arguing that it applied anywhere outside of the 7 countries named, nor is anyone arguing it is a worldwide ban. Trump didn't help himself when he announced he wanted to give preferential treatment to Christians living there. At this point in his Presidency he seems incapable of seeking and listening to advice, especially if it contradicts his opinion, and thinking through an idea before implementing it.


Optics's re important. If a school bans all religious symbols some Christians are often quick to decry that as an attack on Christianity even if it prevents any religious symbols, since the majority impacted are Christians.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...-bans-distribution-bibles-religious-material/

 

[ChrisCW11]

Well, this is all fine an dandy, but the real power is from the court system, not from the tech companies. I find that all the tech companies are doing are grandstanding against Trump but really have no power. The fact that Trump's ban was overturned in less then a week and the courts seem to still be on the side of freedom and justice, all the tech companies are doing now is lip service. What we DON'T need more of today is empty rhetoric against Trump, but real action and solutions, in which I think the tech companies have no play here.

 

[yellowscreen]

its great hearing people talking about things american or un-american

for example, one thing american: ridiculously high murder rate

proud?

newsflash. some things american need to be fixed, some things un-american need to become american

fix your country

here's hoping for 50 years of conservative and rational USA. if you **** it up, the rest of us will also be ****ed so get a grip *******s

in the meantime, study germany, france and sweden. maybe you'll learn something. history repeats itself.

study even your own prohibition era.

 

[nia820]

Terrorist attacks can come from anywhere. It doesn't make sense to ban countries.

The San Bernardino terrorist attack was committed by a US citizen.



Hillary won the popular vote by 3M. The majority of city dwellers and those with college degrees voted for her. Most voters in the rural areas voted for Trump.

With these facts, you think the majority of Apple customers voted for Trump?

Trump supporters and facts don't go together.

 

[mytdave]

All Progressive leadership companies... How about y'all stop bitching and start hiring back AMERICAN workers? Eh?

 

[ethanwa79]

Silly move and symptomatic of Apple's exaggerated sense of its own importance. Trump had a good majority of americans agreeing with him so Apple is now telling most of its customers they are stupid.

Wrong. He lost the popular vote by over 3 million people if you didn't realize that. He does not have a majority....
[doublepost=1486393943][/doublepost]Trump supporters.... *SMH*.... no common sense from them. I just do not get it.

 

[Eraserhead]

What I find interesting is this sort of thing happens all the time, but this President was very public about signing an Executive Order, so the resulting attention motivated his critics to take up the issue.

Typically after such an order, there are several "carve-outs" done by the regulator of jurisdiction, in this case DHS, to allow for example H1B visas, Green Cards, and traditional visas, probably in that order after a review of the persons to see if they have been added to any watch lists or are related to persons who have.

This "rush" by the critics to bypass that process is more of a political position than a legal one in this regard.

I find it interesting the critics are "rushing" to get this case through the Federal courts in hopes of getting this to the Supreme court on an "emergency" basis while it is still 4-4 not 5-4 ideologically.

This is this President's first large scale political fight.

The DHS Secretary was JUST seated late this week. So the timing is not suspect. It is an attack while they are not set to respond with the proper administrative orders supporting the Executive Order. Political.

Simultaneously his Education Secretary needs his Justice nominee to vote while he is still a Senator to get her through with an unprecedented vote from the VP who is President of the Senate.

Once the Ed Sec is appointed, he can get Justice through and in about 2 months or so his SCOTUS pick. Interesting times and political machinations Obama was not subjected to. D sour grapes and mindless push back against the inevitable.

Just like the pushback against Obamas Supreme Court nominee? Or all the anti-obama filibusters?