Fair enough- I cant say I've really read his other posts, but was basing my opinion on Apple changing thier tune on the free charge. (if thats what actually occured)
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Apple: Just another fraud company.
- Thread starter John-boy
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The OP could have used less severe terms to describe a large world renown corporation like Apple, because this seems like more of an isolated case more than anything.
I think the OP and the Apple store could have both made a better compromise.
The OP has to understand Apple has already done a lot to remedy the problem, replacing part after part w/o charge. Not to mention this is being done out of warranty. That alone rarely happens. This good deed of act is usually reserved for companies that understand and appreciate their customers. You have to give credit where credit is due.
The flip side, it's unfortunate that there was perhaps some miscommunication between the OP and the rep in regards to charges. Giving the OP the benefit of the doubt, Apple should be responsible for what they are telling their customers. If they say the repair is w/o charge, then let it be. It's irresponsible and deceiving of anyone to say one thing and do another.
Given the current situation, I would cough up the cost, have a running computer and then file a complaint w/ the BBB and Apple HQ to see where you can go with this.
I think the OP and the Apple store could have both made a better compromise.
The OP has to understand Apple has already done a lot to remedy the problem, replacing part after part w/o charge. Not to mention this is being done out of warranty. That alone rarely happens. This good deed of act is usually reserved for companies that understand and appreciate their customers. You have to give credit where credit is due.
The flip side, it's unfortunate that there was perhaps some miscommunication between the OP and the rep in regards to charges. Giving the OP the benefit of the doubt, Apple should be responsible for what they are telling their customers. If they say the repair is w/o charge, then let it be. It's irresponsible and deceiving of anyone to say one thing and do another.
Given the current situation, I would cough up the cost, have a running computer and then file a complaint w/ the BBB and Apple HQ to see where you can go with this.
On knee jerk reactions...
Someone else said... "I think people are being a little harsh on this kid- and a little over protective of Apple."
I think folks are being harsh not because they are being fanboys, but because they think he might be a troll.
Also, he admitted himself that the takeaway from his plight was "Hopefully some of you will read this story and think twice about buying that new mac. They are great computers when the work but dont expect not to get screwed hand over fist when, not if, they break." That sounds a bit harsh IMO. Then his title states that "Apple. Just another fraud company." Seems a little over the top, and not a point of view that engenders a lot of sympathy. Perhaps he is just young, and perhaps he is a little self-entitled, and perhaps he got a little hot under the collar over a "who pays for what" issue.
He then also warns folks to stay away from a specific Apple store, as if his one experience was a rule.
It is true that customer service pretty much sucks EVERYWHERE these days. Folks are rude and snippy to you. Arrogant and demeaning? Have any of you walked into a Verizon store before?? Plus now Verizon has this future-cool kiosk sign-in system, that is more time consuming than efficient, and it is a bit impersonal and factory like.... Has anyone noticed that Comcast stores have their customer service reps behind 3 inch bullet proof glass?? I mean WTF is that all about (except to say their customer service must be REALLY good, lol).
However, I have to say that Apple is usually pretty exceptional with their customer service and support. Sometimes it could be better, but generally I am always surprised how good and hassle-free they are. Their sales experience is unusual too, especially now. One can walk in and browse around, stay for a few hours if you want, and there usually are quite a few employees as well, who greet you when you come in, and periodically ask if you have any questions or need assistance, etc. That itself (sufficient employees) is getting to be unusual these days. My bank, which I hate btw, has like 50 employees working (you can see by the employee parking lot)... yet invariably there is only 1 teller working the counter, and maybe another one doing double duty working the window and running back and forth to work the counter as well. My other bank has like 15 teller stations, but I haven't seen more than one teller working at a time (even if there is a long line). Ever go to Kohls? I swear the entire store is staffed with 3-4 people (and two are tellers, lol).
Apple, just like any other business can fall down on their customer service depending on "who" that company representative is. Some employees are better than others. It seems like other businesses get around this problem, by having very few employees.
So back to your issue. It might be a bit late at this point as you have already paid for the repair. It is kind of like complaining about the fly in your soup a month later, and then trying to get some compensation. However, I would try to cool down first, then take a deep breath... then write down the series of events, complete with as many dates & details as you can remember. If you still live close enough to the Sagemore store, I would call and ask to speak with the manager (and get their name). Then I would ask to schedule a time when you can go in and discuss the situation. I would suggest a time when the store is not busy, you will get more attention to your problem. I would REALLY try NOT to to make a scene. Keep words like FRAUD, ripoff, bait-and-switch, etc. out of your conversation. Refrain from jumping up on the counter and proclaiming that the Sagemore store is the worst apple store in the world... All of that will get you nowhere, except a hardened resolve not to take your verbal abuse. You need a friend, a sympathetic ear, a man on the "inside" to try and help you out... You won't get that by being nasty or loud. You may get nothing at all out of the situation, except the satisfaction of voicing your complaint. You may get a discount off a future purchase (your machine is about 4 years old, so that may not be a bad thing to walk away with). You may get some money back., but you won't know unless you ask.
If you get nowhere, I would go up the chain and head to corporate. Refrain from sending a nasty email to Steve, as it will do no good (and all he needs from us is our prayers right now anyway). Be factual. Lay out the events and situation in a dispassionate way as possible. That way you gain credibility as a customer who is "not happy" (as opposed to some nut job with a beef about a 4 year old product).
You don't say your age, but I gather you are youngish. Folks do not often take the young seriously, so you have that going against you. Take this as a learning lesson though, as you are going to have a long life dealing with customer service issues wherever you go. If you are so soured on the apple experience I wish you luck, but I doubt you will find it better with other manufacturers. Apple stands head and shoulders above most other companies these days. You just had a bad experience...
Someone else said... "I think people are being a little harsh on this kid- and a little over protective of Apple."
I think folks are being harsh not because they are being fanboys, but because they think he might be a troll.
Also, he admitted himself that the takeaway from his plight was "Hopefully some of you will read this story and think twice about buying that new mac. They are great computers when the work but dont expect not to get screwed hand over fist when, not if, they break." That sounds a bit harsh IMO. Then his title states that "Apple. Just another fraud company." Seems a little over the top, and not a point of view that engenders a lot of sympathy. Perhaps he is just young, and perhaps he is a little self-entitled, and perhaps he got a little hot under the collar over a "who pays for what" issue.
He then also warns folks to stay away from a specific Apple store, as if his one experience was a rule.
It is true that customer service pretty much sucks EVERYWHERE these days. Folks are rude and snippy to you. Arrogant and demeaning? Have any of you walked into a Verizon store before?? Plus now Verizon has this future-cool kiosk sign-in system, that is more time consuming than efficient, and it is a bit impersonal and factory like.... Has anyone noticed that Comcast stores have their customer service reps behind 3 inch bullet proof glass?? I mean WTF is that all about (except to say their customer service must be REALLY good, lol).
However, I have to say that Apple is usually pretty exceptional with their customer service and support. Sometimes it could be better, but generally I am always surprised how good and hassle-free they are. Their sales experience is unusual too, especially now. One can walk in and browse around, stay for a few hours if you want, and there usually are quite a few employees as well, who greet you when you come in, and periodically ask if you have any questions or need assistance, etc. That itself (sufficient employees) is getting to be unusual these days. My bank, which I hate btw, has like 50 employees working (you can see by the employee parking lot)... yet invariably there is only 1 teller working the counter, and maybe another one doing double duty working the window and running back and forth to work the counter as well. My other bank has like 15 teller stations, but I haven't seen more than one teller working at a time (even if there is a long line). Ever go to Kohls? I swear the entire store is staffed with 3-4 people (and two are tellers, lol).
Apple, just like any other business can fall down on their customer service depending on "who" that company representative is. Some employees are better than others. It seems like other businesses get around this problem, by having very few employees.
So back to your issue. It might be a bit late at this point as you have already paid for the repair. It is kind of like complaining about the fly in your soup a month later, and then trying to get some compensation. However, I would try to cool down first, then take a deep breath... then write down the series of events, complete with as many dates & details as you can remember. If you still live close enough to the Sagemore store, I would call and ask to speak with the manager (and get their name). Then I would ask to schedule a time when you can go in and discuss the situation. I would suggest a time when the store is not busy, you will get more attention to your problem. I would REALLY try NOT to to make a scene. Keep words like FRAUD, ripoff, bait-and-switch, etc. out of your conversation. Refrain from jumping up on the counter and proclaiming that the Sagemore store is the worst apple store in the world... All of that will get you nowhere, except a hardened resolve not to take your verbal abuse. You need a friend, a sympathetic ear, a man on the "inside" to try and help you out... You won't get that by being nasty or loud. You may get nothing at all out of the situation, except the satisfaction of voicing your complaint. You may get a discount off a future purchase (your machine is about 4 years old, so that may not be a bad thing to walk away with). You may get some money back., but you won't know unless you ask.
If you get nowhere, I would go up the chain and head to corporate. Refrain from sending a nasty email to Steve, as it will do no good (and all he needs from us is our prayers right now anyway). Be factual. Lay out the events and situation in a dispassionate way as possible. That way you gain credibility as a customer who is "not happy" (as opposed to some nut job with a beef about a 4 year old product).
You don't say your age, but I gather you are youngish. Folks do not often take the young seriously, so you have that going against you. Take this as a learning lesson though, as you are going to have a long life dealing with customer service issues wherever you go. If you are so soured on the apple experience I wish you luck, but I doubt you will find it better with other manufacturers. Apple stands head and shoulders above most other companies these days. You just had a bad experience...
I know, I saw those accusations and I've seen my fair share of trolls come through these forums in my time reading and posting here. The OP didn't strike me as being a troll though.
Yeah, I definitely agree that condemning the entire company over his bad experiences with one Apple Store was a bit overboard. His problem is with the people that lied to him, if in fact that's what occurred. We are hearing one side of the story.
As an American who spent 29 years living in the USA before moving to Japan to live and work for the past 15 years I guess I've been a bit spoiled into forgetting about the customer service nightmares back home. "EVERYWHERE" is not the case. Everywhere in the USA maybe. I'm not saying all service is bad back home, mind you.
Only 15 years? Such a short timer. Ha ha!As an American who spent 29 years living in the USA before moving to Japan for 15 years I guess I've been a bit spoiled into forgetting about the customer service nightmares back home. "EVERYWHERE" is not the case. Everywhere in the USA maybe. I'm not saying all service is bad back home, mind you.
Reading this thread, I am not sure if the OP is a troll but at the same time there are disconnects in his story.
The G5 iMac is 4 years old. Did the OP damage the iMac when replacing the HD? Quite possibly he did. It seems like Apple is going out of their way to help the OP. Usually, Apple has printed out the estimated repair cost prior to completing the repair. My guess is that there was a simple misunderstanding between the two parties.
In the end, it looks like the OP must decided if it is worth fixing the iMac for $300. Only the OP can decide that.
Only 15 years? Such a short timer. Ha ha!
Yeah, really. It seems like I only got here yesterday.
Mind you, as one who knows even better than I, I'm not saying bad customer service is NONexistent over here. But it is a relative rarity.
Also if, as the OP surmised, his G5 is worth $600 and he is that deadset against paying for the repairs he can just sell the machine as soon as he gets it back and recoup the repair costs and move on. I doubt it's worth $600 in its non-functional condition.
Time flies when you are having fun!Yeah, really. It seems like I only got here yesterday.
Agree.
Fix it then sell it.
Gut feeling is that there is more to the story than we are hearing.
Just sell the damaged machine on ebay and be done with it. I'm surprised how much people (usually electronics enthusiasts and small companies are willing to pay for a busted computer so they can fix it (and possibly resell the the computer).
Taco Bell called me this morning.
They are going to supply me with some free cheese.
Taco Bell: NOT just another fraud company.
They are going to supply me with some free cheese.
Taco Bell: NOT just another fraud company.
The real problem is that particular model iMac G5 in that serial range should have been recalled and refunded/upgraded. I have that model as well and it has gone through 3 logic boards, 3 displays, power supply, etc. I didn't even buy Applecare on it, it did break at around 10 months in and repaired under warranty. After the warranty expired it has gone back twice, almost yearly. I'm not sure why it keeps blowing capacitors, do they keep replacing with original (faulty) logic boards? Anyway the repair costs have been 3 times the original cost of the machine but they covered everything under their logic board extension. I'm sure a bunch of that model is in landfill now from people that didn't bother or weren't aware of the extension; Apple should have recalled them since they know the serial numbers that were broken. It's fans are running loud again so its about to die but I'll just buy my mom a new one if they release them already! (I gave it to my mom when I got my MacPro.)
Sadly, I have to confirm this for any South Jersey Mac users.. As someone who's been an Apple user before there were Macs I had just accepted the fact that I was either looking at a long drive or a wait of several days for mail order when I needed something directly from Apple.. Naturally, when the Sagemore store opened up 5 minutes from my house I was pretty pleased.. Everything was GREAT there in the beginning- unfortunately this has changed over the past year..
Sagemore has really lost it's way in pretty much every area.. After being treated completely rude I just decided that I was done with them.. Luckily for me theyve opened a new Apple store in the Cherry Hill Mall.. This store is great- just like sagemore was in the beginning.. It's a pain for me personally to go to the Cherry Hill Mall- but hopefully this will save someone else the aggravation while HOPEFULLY, Sagemore gets its act together again..
I'm not posting this to bash any employees or anything else- just to hopefully save some SJ mac users some aggravation.. No agenda- though I know many people on the internet do this.. Recently my daughter broke her iPhone and we tried to get an appointment at the mall store but couldn't until the next day so we figured we'd try the sagemore store since they could see us virtually immediately.. When we went in they had an employee from the Mall store there and he took care of us- which was great because we were dreading another sagemore nightmare..
It was a little depressing because it was 6PM on a Friday night and sagemore was empty.. Ive never seen that store empty at any time since it opened, but it appears that people could be getting sick of it.. I hope they get it together soon, but truthfully I'm lucky to have the Mall store to fall back on even though it's much more of a hassle- so I'm not complaining too loud..
I agree, and maybe I'm just siding with the original poster because I know the specific store he's talking about and, unfortunately, I've watched the store go downhill right before my eyes.. I'm trying to look at it objectively, but I admit, maybe I can't.. still, when I had to go into this store last week for the first time in a few months it was a bit sad.. Store was empty- and IMHO it's not the economy.. The Promenade where this store is located is fairly upscale and the other stores are still packed.. I could be wrong though..
First of all, apple keeps record in their system of when your applecare expires. Prior to taking it in, I did boot from the install cd and got the invalid node structure error. This error was confirmed by the mac genius as a failed hdd. They told me they could install the same 80gb hdd (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148231) for 300.00 or i could buy and install my own for cheaper. They even popped open the case and showed me how to replace it. As for the logic board, a popped capacitor was confirmed by the mac genius which means there is no way I could have damaged it. The model is NOTORIOUS for this. Lastly, why would I decline a $300.00 dollar charge in the beginning and then accept one later?
As I state in my original post, upon calling corporate headquarters (1-408-996-1010), I asked to speak with the customer relations department. When i got them on the phone they explained to me that even though everyone that works at apple is part of a single team, each individual store is given free reign to run itself. When I spoke with the sagemore apple store, inquiring about the charge, they told me their orders came down from corporate. Each plausibly denied the other and neither accepted responsibility. Is this something a renowned elite corporation does?
I agree that it should have been recalled and your post suggests that this isn't just an isolated incident.
Thank you. This incident is not just me and I am not trying bitch or be a troll. I'm glad someone else knows what I'm talking about over at the sagemore apple store.
My guess is that it was a breakdown in communication more than an outright lie. Perhaps the easiest thing for the Genius to do was to say everything would be covered but he spoke too generally and quickly. Perhaps he then tried to pass the buck to corporate while the store decided not to stand behind the Genius' promise.
I don't expect much from Apple. People seem to give a lot of loyalty to this company and then feel very disappointed when Apple doesn't reciprocate. It's clear that Apple does what is in its best interests (like all corporations) and even when they are magnanimous it is because it furthers their corporate interests. Witness the removal of the mini-DVI adapters from the new generation of Macbooks. Witness the high cost of MagSafe power adapters despite their frequent failures. Etc. etc. etc. I guess Apple is better than most at cultivating an image of family, fairness, and goodness.
Some staff at the Apple Store are very helpful, friendly, and don't take themselves too seriously. But in the Toronto store, too many of them seem to think that they are a special class of people. They don't work in retail; they work at APPLE! One time, I had asked if a Macbook update had been announced since the rumor of an impending update had been circulating widely. The guy replied, "If they told me, do you think I'd tell YOU?" A simple, "I don't know" or "I wouldn't be allowed to say" or a statement about their return policy would have been more appropriate but the fellow truly seemed to relish being in the loop about something. Sheesh.
I'm trying not to get drawn into the cult of Apple and consummerism in general. Truly, the things we own (or want to own) often end up owning us. People buy sleeves for their iPods and Macbooks, they fret over scratches, they feel whole when things are new and shiny. I'm sure Apple wants me to believve that - it keeps products moving - but I'd like to keep my life in my own hands and to spend money and energy on things that truly matter.
Mike
I don't expect much from Apple. People seem to give a lot of loyalty to this company and then feel very disappointed when Apple doesn't reciprocate. It's clear that Apple does what is in its best interests (like all corporations) and even when they are magnanimous it is because it furthers their corporate interests. Witness the removal of the mini-DVI adapters from the new generation of Macbooks. Witness the high cost of MagSafe power adapters despite their frequent failures. Etc. etc. etc. I guess Apple is better than most at cultivating an image of family, fairness, and goodness.
Some staff at the Apple Store are very helpful, friendly, and don't take themselves too seriously. But in the Toronto store, too many of them seem to think that they are a special class of people. They don't work in retail; they work at APPLE! One time, I had asked if a Macbook update had been announced since the rumor of an impending update had been circulating widely. The guy replied, "If they told me, do you think I'd tell YOU?" A simple, "I don't know" or "I wouldn't be allowed to say" or a statement about their return policy would have been more appropriate but the fellow truly seemed to relish being in the loop about something. Sheesh.
I'm trying not to get drawn into the cult of Apple and consummerism in general. Truly, the things we own (or want to own) often end up owning us. People buy sleeves for their iPods and Macbooks, they fret over scratches, they feel whole when things are new and shiny. I'm sure Apple wants me to believve that - it keeps products moving - but I'd like to keep my life in my own hands and to spend money and energy on things that truly matter.
Mike
did it
I did read them. I don't think that you will be happy, you would rather be right!
I did read them. I don't think that you will be happy, you would rather be right!
If you don't take care of your customers (your business) your business will be gone even sooner.
I think these kinds of cautionary tales prove that no company is absolutely perfect. These things happen, but hopefully they won't happen to you.
Personally, with a failure rate that high (or so you've reported), I would've tried to convince the manager that it would be cheaper to just give me a new machine. I'd say something like "well, as long you're going to replace the logic board every year, I'm ok with buying a new hard drive and replacing that every 4 or 5, so in the long run it'd probably be more economical for you to just give me a new computer and save on labor costs."
Customer service is always a horrible experience when it goes bad. About a year ago I had to deal with Olevia to get my HDTV replaced and it was a nightmare getting the ball rolling. Took a month just to get a replacement (btw, the hdtv picture quality is great... but I would never recommend someone buy Olevia unless they buy an extended warranty through Target, etc).
Honestly, I'm just happy Apple has people who actually speak English to serve us. Getting an indian customer service rep is always incredibly frustrating because they're often only taught the very basics of English. I can't level with them at all.
Personally, with a failure rate that high (or so you've reported), I would've tried to convince the manager that it would be cheaper to just give me a new machine. I'd say something like "well, as long you're going to replace the logic board every year, I'm ok with buying a new hard drive and replacing that every 4 or 5, so in the long run it'd probably be more economical for you to just give me a new computer and save on labor costs."
Customer service is always a horrible experience when it goes bad. About a year ago I had to deal with Olevia to get my HDTV replaced and it was a nightmare getting the ball rolling. Took a month just to get a replacement (btw, the hdtv picture quality is great... but I would never recommend someone buy Olevia unless they buy an extended warranty through Target, etc).
Honestly, I'm just happy Apple has people who actually speak English to serve us. Getting an indian customer service rep is always incredibly frustrating because they're often only taught the very basics of English. I can't level with them at all.
If you think that everyone coming through the shop door is a customer, you are in trouble. At some point you may have to decide: Do I want this person to be a customer, or not? As an example, if a person starts a thread on MacRumors calling you a "fraud company", that is most certainly the kind of person who you do NOT want as a customer.
Yes, especially if you're a company in the habit of acting fraudulently.
I'm not of the opinion that Apple is incidentally but I do think any company that deems fit to pick and choose it's customers is stacking the odds of success against themselves, especially in today's economy.
It's no surprise that the companies with the best level of customer satisfaction are generally those offering the best service. All businesses have to deal with "difficult" customers on occasion whether they want to or not.
I love the fanboys here. The simple fact is this: They told him it would be fixed then the went back on their word. I dont care if his computer has been rebuilt every day since he got it, there is no excuse for lying to the customer. I believe Jon, but i also dont look at apple like its a gift from god's hand itself, so perhaps i dont need to defend a company at all costs to prove something to myself. Im starting to digress, so ill round this up: Apple used to have great customer service and it is quite obviously going downhill now and if you refuse to acknowledge this and keep defending every action they take it just gives Apple more room to lie to people because the fanboys will never see Apple as doing something wrong.