Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Mar 16, 2013.
Please provide sources to back up your "fact" per forum rules or retract your post.
So Apple shouldn't do any marketing while Samsung spends $12B/yr on advertising?
Unbelievable how Apple can't do anything right with some people these days.
One can only hope, because in regard of phones they will be pretty well screwed if they are not...
Isn't this also dependent on how far from the eye it is held also? I recall that coming into the equation somewhere.
According to Jonesblog written by Dr Bryan Jones (Retinal Neuroscientist):
Essentially, this is a claim of visual acuity which is the ability of the visual system to resolve fine detail. There are an awful lot of considerations to take into account when making such a claim such as contrast, distance, the resolution of the display and some metric of pixel size which gives you an estimate of visual resolution on the retina. Claims of contrast ratios are notoriously flexible in a number of displays and will be influenced by a number of optical factors as well as the content being viewed and the black and color levels of the pixels as well as overall luminance. Apple claims an 800:1 pixel ratio and I’ll take them at their word on that and focus on the claims of resolution here.
A “normal” human eye is considered to have standard visual acuity or 20/20 vision. This means that a 20/20 eye can discriminate two lines or two pixels separated by 1 arcminute (1/60 degree).
The ability of an optical system to resolve fine detail requires minute spacing of optical detectors. In the retina, there detectors are the photoreceptors. Objects we look at at projected through the cornea and lens and imaged on the back of the eye on a plane that ideally lines up with the retinal photoreceptors.
Theoretically the limit of retinal resolution, say the ability to distinguish patterns of alternating black and white lines is approximately 120pixels/degree in an optimal, healthy eye with no optical abnormalities. Again, this corresponds to one minute of arc or 0.000291 radians (π/(60*180)). If one assumes that the nominal focal length of the eye is approximately 16mm, an optimal distance from the eye for viewing detail might be around 12 inches away from the eye which is reasonable to assume for someone viewing detail on their iPhone.
Dr. Soneira’s claims are based upon a retinal calculation of .5 arcminutes which to my reading of the literature is too low. According to a relatively recent, but authoritative study of photoreceptor density in the human retina (Curcio, C.A., K.R. Sloan, R.E. Kalina and A.E. Hendrickson 1990 Human photoreceptor topography. J. Comp. Neurol. 292:497-523.), peak cone density in the human averages 199,000 cones/mm2 with a range of 100,000 to 324,000. Dr. Curcio et. al. calculated 77 cycles/degree or .78 arcminutes/cycle of *retinal* resolution. However, this does not take into account the optics of the system which degrade image quality somewhat giving a commonly accepted resolution of 1 arcminute/cycle. So, if a normal human eye can discriminate two points separated by 1 arcminute/cycle at a distance of a foot, we should be able to discriminate two points 89 micrometers apart which would work out to about 287 pixels per inch. Since the iPhone 4G display is comfortably higher than that measure at 326 pixels per inch, I’d find Apple’s claims stand up to what the human eye can perceive.
According to Adrian Covert of Gizmodo:
This same line of thinking manifested itself when contrast ratio became a spec for Plasma and LCD displays (OMG ONE ZILLION TO ONE CONTRAST RATIO) — can’t see it, doesn’t matter — and is now resurfacing as companies enter the pixel density arms race. Increases in pixel density are going from impressive technical feats to masturbatory experiments for the sake of marketing strategy.
So what do we make of HTC managing to pack a 1920×1080 display in a 5-inch screen? When it comes to tangible user benefits, not much. According to those who toil away in research labs, the human eye can not discern granular detail when it is higher than 300 PPI. Hence Apple’s 326 PPI display in the iPhone 4 back in 2010. Yes, some — notably Dr Raymond Soneira of DisplayMate — have argued that no display will be perfectly “retina” until it has a density of 477 PPI. But others, like University of Utah professor Bryan Jones, dispute the basis of Soneira’s reasoning, arguing that from a foot away, displays will actually appear retina when greater than 287 PPI. But even Soneira acknowledged that the retina effect kicks in when a 300 PPI display is held 18 inches away. You know. Where you hold your phone.
Does increased smartphone resolution help for watching high-def movies? Not really. To really reap the benefit of 1080p video, you need no smaller than a 40-inch display (and ideally one above 50-inches) to notice anything awesome while sitting at a comfortable distance. In fact, to theoretically reap any benefits of 1080p video on your phone, you’d need to be holding it 6-8 inches from your face. No one holds their phone 6-8 inches from their face.
I had the S3 for 2 month and I can see Pen-tile 100% when i had it...reds and greens espcially looked extremely pixelated
Have you forgotten the ads Samsung made to "purposely" attack Apple? I have yet seen Apple mention anything about Samsung on any of their advertisements.
The people who were at the event said it was a Pen-tile display. Engadget says it still has a pentile display. Few others said the same... Now i dont know about what type of modifications they did to the screen..but its still pentile at the end of the say
Either that or you can just look at your Retina display and see the pixels. And I certainly do see pixels (depending on the source, I don't usually see them in photos, I do see them in text and they are poking my eyes when it's not anti-aliased). It's not a lot that is happening when they'll increase the pixel density, but I think a pixel density of 400-450 ppi is reasonable (granted, not for everyone). At that point I would call the display perfect as I could never see a pixel on that screen, no matter at what distance I look at the display. And I'd like to see that.
For all of you grousing about the "retina" claim, I agree with Bahroo, I really think their justification for it is that they don't consider Pentile displays to truly live up to their claimed resolution. Which has some merit. Take this DPReview S4 hands-on for example:
Now whether that disqualifies it as being "retina-quality" is certainly debatable, since for one thing it compensates with a higher PPI. There's certainly some dubious marketing parsing going on here. I'm just speculating, but I do think that's Apple's spin on it, not just that they call theirs "retina" and others do not. Are their any "retina"-resolution phones out there that are not using Pentile layout? If so then I think Apple needs to stop with that.
Frankly, I think all non-low-end phone displays are getting so good (and so far past the limits of normal human vision), it's beginning to be a bit ridiculous to even bother arguing over resolution. Nowadays, I'm far more concerned with brightness, contrast, light leakage, and color gamut and accuracy characteristics than with resolution.
I can tell the horrible green tint my S3 had.......
I am a dev, and yes, it I can be a PITA to support another resolution and/or aspect ratio (although how much of a pain really depends specifically on the kind of app). Nonetheless, I would be one of the first in line to buy a ~5" iPhone, and I think the developer pain is worth taking for Apple.
I'm not saying it's not PenTile - what I AM saying is that the pixel arrangement is different to the one on the S3 - so while it's still technically PenTile, it looks a LOT sharper than what is on the S3, and the artifacts may not be visible at all.
Did that happen to you on the day it was released?
"You can actually understand our tech support guys"
Hmmm, makes me wonder then if your problem isn't just going to be worsened as the pixels get packed in tighter per inch? As the PPI ratio gets higher, it means that things such as fonts appear smaller on screen, so you will have to magnify them to compensate.
Users select the best platform. If Android/Samsung is the best platform, they select this platform. Not very difficult to understand.
I do not want the hardware limitations of iDevices and the software limitations of iOS, if i pay > 500 US$ for my phone.
so you are comparing a nearly 6 year old touch not being compatible to an app to the Nexus 7 that was released 8 months ago?
It makes sense. While the black looks great up close and was more novel when it launched, it doesn't have the jewel-like effect of the white iPhone 5.
And after 5 months, I'm still awed by the beautiful design and attention to detail; especially the glass/aluminum back and the level of precision manufacturing required to make that happen.
This step is a (weak) defense, not advertising.
Actually - many, many, MANY sites and reviews have said that the 720p S-LCD2 display on the HTC One X, the display on the Xperia Z and the 1080p S-LCD3 displays on the HTC Droid DNA and the HTC One blow the iPhone 5 out of the water.
True, I'm sad to say...
It's a knee-jerk reaction type of response from Apple this time round, but it is better than coming out on the attack, that was just poor form on marketing chief Phil Schiller's behalf and did Apple no favours at all a few days ago when he frothed at the mouth about Samsung.
Funny how there are only white iPhones shown
To be fair, Samsung never actually mentioned Apple in any of their advertisements either.
Here's the deal: Everybody knows why they love iPhone already.
Usually around this time, a Willy Wonka-esque man escapes his privacy and goes "Hey, how are you doing? Still having fun with your iPhone? Here's a little something for you!" and brings some small software feature, hardware enhancement or even as little as an information with him.
What we have here is 'Please go ahead and buy one if you didn't get one already, and please don't switch to Android'. With all due respect, but that's a little dull.
Yes, he's gone. I know, and so do you. But it's a shame that this part of the 'outside Apple' culture has vanished away with him and was replaced by silent upgrades and keynote schedules that could serve as data for time servers – or frequency counters.
Instead of enjoying a man on stage, proudly announcing how much computers his company has archived to ship the last quarter, there's now that CEO talking quarterly growth in markets and other stock-related stuff. That's not entertaining at all.
People obviously enjoy change, otherwise they wouldn't annoy for UI changes, but we, the consumers, want to be entertained, not to be told things we already know.
Having said that, I gladly recognize that the Marketing department picked up momentum and I'm looking forward to some entertainment that truly blows our minds.
My brother too, on his iPhone 5.
It's gotten so bad on his that he needed to enable the handicap gestures that let you control your hardware features through touch, else he couldn't shut the phone off.