Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
About time!
[doublepost=1501290066][/doublepost]
Still no proof... no title.

Why would Apple let u download an HD movie, but occasionally stick 4K in Purchase history when there no titles available in 4k ? Apple gearing users up in diss-belief ? Its working :) heaps of us are falling for it.

Go for it Apple...

UHD iTunes movies is inevitable. So I'm not sure what your angle is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: macintoshmac
What are you talking about? Even once Apple releases a 4K Apple TV, and upgrades the iTunes Store to 4K content -- how much 4K content will be available on Apple TV? Netflix, for an added fee that no one will pay. No other popular video service offers anything.

The real world of 4K is that it is mostly no where.

There are a ton of shows on Netflix and Amazon in 4K. Amazon has most 4K shows in HDR. Netflix is a bit behind.
 
And what makes you think there are 4ik transfers of these movies? There are NO 4k's of any Bond movies.

Any thoughts on Bond 25 in Nov 2019? Do you think Craig will take the option in his deal for this last one? Looks like it will be written by Neal Purvis and Robert Wade, who penned Casino Royale,
Quantum Of Solace, Skyfall
and Spectre. :apple:
 
I disagree completely. I and others like me still enjoy owning certain movies. A streaming service is not the end all. I'm also not quite clear on how pressing "buy" is such a pain in the ass?
I'm in this group as well.
I much rather buy most things outright than paying a subscription fee from now on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StyxMaker
I called this as soon as they announced all the H265/HEVC video support, and basically skipping any mention of tvOS features back at WWDC
 
To add to what others are saying about quality beyond resolution alone...

iTunes sells 1080p movies with a data rate of 8mbps.

Netflix streams 4K with HDR at around 18mbps.

1080p bluray is 25-30mbps, despite have 1/4th the pixels and less color data than 4K HDR.

1080p ProRes HQ, Apple's industry standard for finishing 1080p video, and the file format delivered to iTunes for re-encoding to sell is 220mbps.

Some 4K cameras can shoot footage at a data rate of 2,500mbps.

To break some of those numbers down. 1080p iTunes is about 4x more compressed than bluray and 27.5x more compressed than the file delivered to Apple to sell.

If they increase their data rate by 4x (to 32mbps) to match the 4x increase in resolution of 4K, compression will only be on par with 1080p bluray but still 78x more compressed than the 4K footage that was originally shot.

1080p never hit its full potential, with datarates on 1080i cable boxes being absolutely abysmal and compounded by a second low bitrate encode by DVR boxes.

Would've been nice to see 1080p delivered better all around, before jumping to 4K, which is so much harder to deliver. The biggest upside is that we'll finally get datarates (18mbps) that should have been the MINIMUM at 1080p.
 
Watched Spiderman Homecoming this past weekend in 3D.

Watched War of Planet of the Apes in 3D 2 weekends ago.

Not wildly passionate for 3D myself but I'm not sure I can buy that "top Directors have given up on it" when summer blockbusters are rolling it out this summer.

3d works in theaters. Not so well in homes....unless you have theatre sized screens.
my thing about Hollywood's obsession with 3d is they are charging a premium for essentially 1950's technology.
 
I was too... but disagreeing that (home) broadband caps will "put an end to this." I have (home) broadband cap at 1TB too so I completely identify with what you are imagining. However, I don't want our concerns to stand in the way of the progress of technology.

In my case, I still get my television mostly from DISH, so I don't lean on broadband for much streaming video. BUT, if I was a cord cutter and I did NOT want to buy a higher tier from my broadband provider, I'd probably just keep doing what I'm doing in terms of streaming 1080p or 720p or SD, exactly as I do now. A 4K:apple:TV wouldn't force you or I to only stream 4K. It would simply be an option... just like the options for the current :apple:TV are generally 1080p, 720p or SD.

If I generally had some spare bandwidth under the cap, maybe big movie night would get to stream the 4K option instead of whatever I usually do.

And note: the companion rumor with 4K is h.265 instead of h.264. The oft-spun bit about h.265 is it requires about half the space of h.264 for the same video quality. Conceptually, that could mean that an h.265 4K movie might take up about the same amount of space as an h.264 1080p movie. Or if there's too much puffery in that claim, maybe the 4K movie would be only a little larger than a 1080p equivalent. The point is that even those of us with hard broadband caps might be able to enjoy more 4K than we expect with h.265 in the mix.

I use about 400 to 500gb a month. I am off the grid. I rely on an HD antenna, Appletv, DIRECTV Now, TiVo, Netflix, amazon, Hulu, HBO, and Showtime for my tv duties. No cable or satellite. All internet based except local channels. HD uses about 3gb an hour of data and 4K uses about 10gb. I would be using 3x as much data as I use now or 1.5TB a month. Granted right now, I am not doing much 4K, but my point is In the future as it becomes more popular i will be limited if I do.
 
Almost 5 gb for a 720p movie? Apple is definitely hiding something. Most of my 720p movies are around 1.5 with little to no compression.
 
Almost 5 gb for a 720p movie? Apple is definitely hiding something. Most of my 720p movies are around 1.5 with little to no compression.

A feature film at 1.5GB is highly compressed no matter the resolution. That's enough space to put about 40 minutes of video on a standard definition DVD.

Not saying that a highly compressed movie can't look good, especially with more advanced codecs... but it's still very highly compressed. I find Apple's codecs to be some of the best for the datarate, but I'd still prefer them to be slightly higher.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CarlJ
Best news I've heard all day. Was about to buy a 4K chormecast but the UHD hdr selection of new releases is very meager.
 
I bought a Sony UBP-X800 UHD player for $273 two months ago. This player is $239.99 at Costco.com now.

First of all it is built well.
2 HDMI outputs. One for 4K video and one for audio through hdmi 1.4 receivers that don't pass through 4K video.
Universal playback including UHD discs, Bluray, DVD, Dvd audio, sacd, cd, all kinds of video and audio formats including ALAC, FLAC, AAC, DSD, etc through both USB and dlna. Wonderful player and extremely high quality for video and audio. It also plays 4K Netflix, amazon prime, and you tube. It plays all my MKV with dts-hd-ma, etc. very impressed.
[doublepost=1501302639][/doublepost]
A feature film at 1.5GB is highly compressed no matter the resolution. That's enough space to put about 40 minutes of video on a standard definition DVD.

Not saying that a highly compressed movie can't look good, especially with more advanced codecs... but it's still very highly compressed. I find Apple's codecs to be some of the best for the datarate, but I'd still prefer them to be slightly higher.

Most 1080p movies that I get are between 14 and 30 GB.
 
  • Like
Reactions: macintoshmac
Wish they could just update the software of the 4 to allow to have 4K. Rather not buy a third Apple TV.

But that's exactly what Apple would have you do.
[doublepost=1501302979][/doublepost]
To add to what others are saying about quality beyond resolution alone...


To break some of those numbers down. 1080p iTunes is about 4x more compressed than bluray and 27.5x more compressed than the file delivered to Apple to sell.

You're such a Tim in the making! :D
[doublepost=1501303127][/doublepost]
I use about 400 to 500gb a month. I am off the grid. I rely on an HD antenna, Appletv, DIRECTV Now, TiVo, Netflix, amazon, Hulu, HBO, and Showtime for my tv duties.

Off the grid or off the charts? ;)
[doublepost=1501303248][/doublepost]
Too little, too late, too expensive and no cross-platform support. $60 Chromecast Ultra already takes care of 4K.

There were IBM personal computers, too, you know.
 
Last edited:
I'm really excited for this and hoping it gets announced at WWDC in September. I have almost 100 movies on iTunes but I'm probably gonna take a pause from buying just to wait for 4K to officially come.
 
To add to what others are saying about quality beyond resolution alone...

iTunes sells 1080p movies with a data rate of 8mbps.

Netflix streams 4K with HDR at around 18mbps.

1080p bluray is 25-30mbps, despite have 1/4th the pixels and less color data than 4K HDR.

1080p ProRes HQ, Apple's industry standard for finishing 1080p video, and the file format delivered to iTunes for re-encoding to sell is 220mbps.

Some 4K cameras can shoot footage at a data rate of 2,500mbps.

To break some of those numbers down. 1080p iTunes is about 4x more compressed than bluray and 27.5x more compressed than the file delivered to Apple to sell.

If they increase their data rate by 4x (to 32mbps) to match the 4x increase in resolution of 4K, compression will only be on par with 1080p bluray but still 78x more compressed than the 4K footage that was originally shot.

1080p never hit its full potential, with datarates on 1080i cable boxes being absolutely abysmal and compounded by a second low bitrate encode by DVR boxes.

Would've been nice to see 1080p delivered better all around, before jumping to 4K, which is so much harder to deliver. The biggest upside is that we'll finally get datarates (18mbps) that should have been the MINIMUM at 1080p.

Why does something as simple as video resolution have to be so complicated? All of these posts and explanations seem so crazy to me. You would think something like this could be figured out...

Everyone has a different answer. Crazy.
 
What are you talking about? Even once Apple releases a 4K Apple TV, and upgrades the iTunes Store to 4K content -- how much 4K content will be available on Apple TV? Netflix, for an added fee that no one will pay. No other popular video service offers anything.

The real world of 4K is that it is mostly no where.

Except in every Wal-Mart in the US.
 
3d works in theaters. Not so well in homes....unless you have theatre sized screens.
my thing about Hollywood's obsession with 3d is they are charging a premium for essentially 1950's technology.

This is objectively false. Try 3D on an OLED display and you will change your mind. It is better than in theater. This is from a 3D skeptic. Unfortunately, LG is no longer supporting 3D in their OLEDs.
 
Will be dead on arrival if they cannot provide us with a subscription model. Purchasing movies individually off iTunes is a real pain in the ass, even more so with Netflix & Co. striving.
Subscription to what? 4K movie service? Are you really prepared to pay $100/month because that's what you're asking for?
[doublepost=1501306170][/doublepost]
This is objectively false. Try 3D on an OLED display and you will change your mind. It is better than in theater. This is from a 3D skeptic. Unfortunately, LG is no longer supporting 3D in their OLEDs.
What does OLED have to do with 3D? 3D is about special relations and immersion. OLED adds nothing to that.
[doublepost=1501306287][/doublepost]
Except in every Wal-Mart in the US.
You don't understand how retail works. Shoppers enter seeing 4K TVs for only $800 but choose the $500 1080p TV because it's cheap and on sale. That represents about 75% of all TV buyers.
[doublepost=1501306576][/doublepost]
Amazon Prime has Spectre in 4K.
Are you sure it's no uprezzed from 1080p? Amazon Prime has had terrible video quality in my experience.
[doublepost=1501306660][/doublepost]
I called this as soon as they announced all the H265/HEVC video support, and basically skipping any mention of tvOS features back at WWDC
Then why didn't they announce an iTunes 4K movie catalog upgrade too?
 
Outside of 50-100 inch screens and computer screens, 4k content is pointless. I mean from the view point of data required to adequately display uncompressed 4k is so large and gpu needs so high that these 4k files are NO WHERE NEAR what 4k quality should be. The same way 1080p blu ray is amazing compared to streamed versions.

I suspect that 4k is never going to demonstrate the quality it's capable of because of the lack of high capacity physical media format. Streaming 4k is cool and all but it's barely worth it for the compression artefacts vs same bitrate 1080p.

4K itself isn't as big an issue as what 4K allows, and that's HDR. That is something the average person can see, and will make a difference to, no matter how close they sit to the screen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fluamsler
Tim mentioned at WWDC there will be more to,come later this year on AppleTv.

I think given some of Comcast's aggressive moves with not supporting apps, it's a tell we will see the cord cutting bundle from apple this fall. I'd love to,dump Comcast tv for a perfect package from apple. But apple will need to clean up,its crappy Tv app software and iTunes first.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.