Apple lost its mojo with iOS lion?

[Lord Appleseed]

I know i can change it back, the default just makes no sense on a mbp. What i meant is that i have to swipe up to go down and then when usi g the mouse cursor to click a button i have to move down again to make it go down.

Because it would be completely unnatural to move the finger down when you want the mouse to go up. However reversed scrolling is not unnatural at all, considering you drag the page down when you want to move upwards.
Simply put: scrolling and cursor moving are two completely different things.

 

[paulsalter]

I find reversed scrolling unnatural also

If I want to move down on the current page I am looking at, I move the pointer down using down with my finger down on the trackpad

If I want to scroll down the page I move my fingers down on the trackpad

If I was physically interacting with the screen, like a touch screen device, then I agree the opposite way would be natural

But as long as there is an option, I don't mind what they do as default

 

[maflynn]

People said the same about the Leopard to Snow Leopard upgrade.

And look at the results, an OS that has way too many iOS type integrations and few other major features that help extend the OS.

I don't know if I'm in the minority here, I suspect I am but I don't see Lion as a great improvement. Its consumes more resources, depending on who you talk to its either faster or slower then SL.

Many folks have been waiting for improved finder (but not improved this way I guess). A new files system (but apple seems to be hiding the file system), Device independence

 

[Lord Appleseed]

I find reversed scrolling unnatural also

If I want to move down on the current page I am looking at, I move the pointer down using down with my finger down on the trackpad

If I want to scroll down the page I move my fingers down on the trackpad

If I was physically interacting with the screen, like a touch screen device, then I agree the opposite way would be natural

But as long as there is an option, I don't mind what they do as default

Reverse scrolling is just a matter of becoming used to. I adapted to it in about a week after installing DP1 for the first time.

 

[hyperpiper45]

Reverse scrolling is just a matter of becoming used to. I adapted to it in about a week after installing DP1 for the first time.

This. For example, my mum had an iPod touch, then she got a MBP. She found that the scrolling was strange because it was the opposite to what she was used to. All they are doing is trying to unify the experience across different devices, which makes sense.

 

[maflynn]

Reverse scrolling is just a matter of becoming used to. I adapted to it in about a week after installing DP1 for the first time.

But it becomes even more of a problem since every other platform doesn't do that. I use windows, linux and OSX, This will lead to problems when using all three.

 

[stridemat]

And look at the results, an OS that has way too many iOS type integrations and few other major features that help extend the OS.

I don't know if I'm in the minority here, I suspect I am but I don't see Lion as a great improvement. Its consumes more resources, depending on who you talk to its either faster or slower then SL.

Many folks have been waiting for improved finder (but not improved this way I guess). A new files system (but apple seems to be hiding the file system), Device independence

What I meant is that people were complaining about the lack of features between Leopard and Snow Leopard. Now are 'happy' with SL, they complain about the lack of features between it and Lion. People like to complain about change.

However I do agree with you an improved Finder is much needed.

 

[Unpleasant]

trackpad settings...

scroll & zoom uncheck the first one. scroll direction natural. There thats fixes the scroll.. i was going nuts too.

Then

more gestures

swipe between full screen, uncheck and swipe to switch pages to 3 finger wipe.

Back to how SL was

Just wish they left it they was it was before...

 

[tkermit]

In a few years, every other desktop operating system will have adopted Apple's new scrolling behavior. Move the mouse or a finger "upwards" (away from you) to move the cursor up...and two-finger-scroll upwards to drag the page up.
Makes total sense to me. We only had it backwards for years, because we interacted with scroll bars instead of the window content.

 

[stefan1975]

Of course it is not all bad, the autosave and versioning is great and the back swipe in safari feels quite natural, although it stinks that all those new gestures break chrome and ff5 by default, maybe they will fix that sometime soon.

When i saw the keynote they claimed 250+ features but i cannot seem to find many of them. And i dont know i it is because of the ios like instant-on feature but lion is also a memory hog for me, glad i got 8gb ram for it.

I still think the scrolling is illogical on a non touchscreen but that is not the point of this thread. I bet there are few power users here that see productivity improvements in lion apart from animations.

Dont get me wrong, lion seems a nice os, just marketed towards the ipad users. That they don't let you theme the desktop yet is a wonder

 

[tkermit]

They should have bothered with the important stuff and nit just the gui. Trim without hacking, memory management, speed up loading times, bring safari in 2011, allow windows aligning and other such ui improvements like kde and aero saw but they just put in more useless gesture stuff instead.

I honestly don't get your point. What makes you think they didn't improve memory management and loading times. YOu yourself claim that "it runs great, fast and stable" . What do you mean by "bring Safari in 2011". And you are disappointed that they spent time improving the GUI, yet you would have wished for more UI improvements ?

 

[macmongral]

I still think the scrolling is illogical on a non touchscreen but that is not the point of this thread. I bet there are few power users here that see productivity improvements in lion apart from animations.

Dont get me wrong, lion seems a nice os, just marketed towards the ipad users. That they don't let you theme the desktop yet is a wonder

As to the scrolling issue that you have just change it back to the inverted way you like in preferences trackpad or MM as you see fit, its nice to be given the choice in the matter , its not locked down

if you don't like it change

 

[stefan1975]

I honestly don't get your point. What makes you think they didn't improve memory management and loading times. YOu yourself claim that "it runs great, fast and stable" . What do you mean by "bring Safari in 2011". And you are disappointed that they spent time improving the GUI, yet you would have wished for more UI improvements ?

Well from what i have learned in the three days i have used it, lion takes more memory then s.l. And i have 'scientifically' determined that programs take more 'bounces' to start in lion. So in that way lion doesnt seem technically superior to S.L.

What i meant by safari is that it too seems to suffer from the bling only improvements since 5.x with the cilinder thumbs, reader, now the swiping of pages, etc.

Instead of things like autocompletion, omnibar, better tabs, better extensions, searching in the address bar, html5, etc.

I do like gui improvements, for example the win7 aero snap left, right, maximize is really an addition to my daily productivity. Not just for the sake of it.

And i did punt [rant] in my post right

 

[NT1440]

Well from what i have learned in the three days i have used it, lion takes more memory then s.l. And i have 'scientifically' determined that programs take more 'bounces' to start in lion. So in that way lion doesnt seem technically superior to S.L.

What i meant by safari is that it too seems to suffer from the bling only improvements since 5.x with the cilinder thumbs, reader, now the swiping of pages, etc.

Instead of things like autocompletion, omnibar, better tabs, better extensions, searching in the address bar, html5, etc.

I do like gui improvements, for example the win7 aero snap left, right, maximize is really an addition to my daily productivity. Not just for the sake of it.

And i did punt [rant] in my post right

So you're complaining mostly about 3rd party stuff in your list. The rest is how somehow the enhancements added since SL, which you can choose to use OR NOT, have now magically killed your productivity.

I have one statement to make, if you really cared about productivity you wouldn't be using BETA operating systems. Also, your "scientific" tests are laughably horrendous (you left a good dozen or so variables un-isolated) yet you still come to a conclusion you clearly know nothing about.

By the way, do a search for memory management in OSX, read up, and learn something.

 

[Jagardn]

I know i can change it back, the default just makes no sense on a mbp. What i meant is that i have to swipe up to go down and then when usi g the mouse cursor to click a button i have to move down again to make it go down.

I just spend €2300 on a mbp, €123 on 8gb ram and €400 on a ssd and it is being turned into an ipad+

If you don't like it, stick with Snow Leopard or install Windows 7, it's quite simple. If Apple continues on a path you don't like, that's how the market system works, you can always buy someone else's product.

 

[stefan1975]

So you're complaining mostly about 3rd party stuff in your list. The rest is how somehow the enhancements added since SL, which you can choose to use OR NOT, have now magically killed your productivity.

I have one statement to make, if you really cared about productivity you wouldn't be using BETA operating systems. Also, your "scientific" tests are laughably horrendous (you left a good dozen or so variables un-isolated) yet you still come to a conclusion you clearly know nothing about.

By the way, do a search for memory management in OSX, read up, and learn something.

Well i think GM is not considered beta, it is what we will be buying next week in MAS and by performance i know bounces counting is not rocket science, hence the ''. I am also not referring to 3rd party apps, safari, fcpx, iwork are all 1st party apps.

And i cannot choose to ignore all 'improvements' in lion. The mas, mission control instead of spaces on a grid are not optional.

I i do like to think i know a little about operating systems. I've been a sysadmin since '97 among which all nixes and osx desktop systems and yet i still believe that sl and lion memory management is kinda lame.

I will still upgrade to lion, i'm just ranting here about the fact that apple in all ways is forgetting the prousers and focusing on mainstream instead, they're a company with stockholders so i know why they do it, i just want to rant about it here

 

[arthurbath]

Complaining about change is totally classic.

 

[PowerGamerX]

I'm trying to figure out what's so "dumbed down" about Lion. It just appears to be Snow Leopard with some UI improvements.

It's just newOSitis. Every time a new OS is about to come out there's always these people that whine and whine. Then 6 months later consider it the best thing ever created once they get used to the changes.

Seriously, they've just added some features like iOS has. What's wrong with that? Nothing is forcing you to use those features. You don't have to use launchpad or the "natural" scrolling.

People still seem to have it in their head that because iOS is a mobile OS it's somehow inferior. While that may be true for some things, it does have some things that are very nice and I welcome into OS X.

 

[NT1440]

When I said 3rd party I was referring to extensions, omnibus, and whatever you meant by "html5" (a standard that won't be fully finished for at least a decade).

I understand that change isn't always pleasant to a workflow, but that is just it, its change.

I have noticed that more often then not the "pro" features that the "pros" (everyone's a pro in some field, what exactly does it take to be a certified "pro") are begging for, are merely just enhancements to their already heavily set up workflows.

Who targets those kind of fussy consumers, seriously?

 

[iHateMacs]

Looks like Lion is like marmite. You love it or you hate it.

That is a fallacy in itself.

I like Marmite. I don't "love" it. I don't have it every day. I might have it once or twice a year and enjoy it so that means I certainly don't HATE it.

To me Lion is fine. The reverse scrolling is a bit odd though. Easy to get used to with a trackpad, but if you also use a mouse with a wheel then that is so wrong. I don't think I could ever get used to turning the wheel and have stuff go the wrong way. It is a shame there is no way change the mouse and trackpad scroll direction independantly.

 

[GimmeSlack12]

My initial impression wasn't great. But now that Spotlight has finished indexing and I've adjusted to Mission Control I'm don't really have a problem with Lion. The gestures are cool but I've been using BetterTouchTool with my Trackpad for a while now so there's nothing ground breaking there.

The only remaining problem I'm having is my 3 finger swipe left/right for back/forward in Firefox isn't working and this I do not like, I'm hoping for a fix from BTT.

EDIT: I take that back about back/forward with BTT. I had it set on click-swipe and not Swipe, so I'm good now. Guess I'll have to get used to my Spaces being in a bit different setup now.

 

[Phil A.]

I'm trying to figure out what's so "dumbed down" about Lion. It just appears to be Snow Leopard with some UI improvements.

It's just newOSitis. Every time a new OS is about to come out there's always these people that whine and whine. Then 6 months later consider it the best thing ever created once they get used to the changes.

Seriously, they've just added some features like iOS has. What's wrong with that? Nothing is forcing you to use those features. You don't have to use launchpad or the "natural" scrolling.

People still seem to have it in their head that because iOS is a mobile OS it's somehow inferior. While that may be true for some things, it does have some things that are very nice and I welcome into OS X.

QFT: I can't see why some people say Lion is "dumbed down" - from what I can see, it has everything (apart from Rosetta) that Snow Leopard has. Some things are done a bit differently (such as spaces), but I certainly wouldn't describe it as a "dumbed down" OS.

 

[GimmeSlack12]

QFT: I can't see why some people say Lion is "dumbed down" - from what I can see, it has everything (apart from Rosetta) that Snow Leopard has. Some things are done a bit differently (such as spaces), but I certainly wouldn't describe it as a "dumbed down" OS.

The only thing that made me think that was the full screen windows and removing the Library folder from the User folder. Yes, they are both either avoided or fixed but I didn't like it either. My name is Travis, and I'm a stubborn Mac user!

 

[Phil A.]

The only thing that made me think that was the full screen windows and removing the Library folder from the User folder. Yes, they are both either avoided or fixed but I didn't like it either. My name is Travis, and I'm a stubborn Mac user!

Full screen is completely optional so doesn't affect you if you don't want to use it (adding optional features can hardly be described as "dumbing down").

The Library folder is still there in the user's folder - it's just hidden. You can navigate to it in Finder by selecting Go / Go To Folder (or shift-cmd-g) and entering ~/Library in the Go To Folder box. Also, if you want to unhide the folder permanently, just open a terminal window and type in the following command:

chflags nohidden Library

and it will then re-appear in Finder - you can even drag it to the sidebar if you want to and once it's on the sidebar, you can re-hide it by running

chflags hidden Library

and whilst it will disappear again from your home folder, the sidebar shortcut will take you straight to it

 

[BlackMangoTree]

Mission Control is pathetic, Lion has the worst windows management ever in any OS.

Whats the freaking purpose of hiding the library folder?