Apple lost its mojo with iOS lion?

[NT1440]

Mission Control is pathetic, Lion has the worst windows management ever in any OS.

What a well thought out and reasoned post complete with examples to ensure no one mistakes you as a whiner. :roll eyes:


I happen to really like mission control. There are a few features I'd like (locking apps to certain desktops like spaces use to) but overall its very intuitive.

 

[paulsalter]

Seriously, they've just added some features like iOS has. What's wrong with that? Nothing is forcing you to use those features. You don't have to use launchpad or the "natural" scrolling.

Not sure if you are only referring to the above mentioned features or in general that you are not forced to use the new features

If its the first then ignore this post.......otherwise

Versions/Auto Save - Can this be totally disabled, so I end up with a 'Save' and 'Save As' button under the file menu and the document doesn't get saved unless I tell it to save

 

[BlackMangoTree]

What a well thought out and reasoned post complete with examples to ensure no one mistakes you as a whiner. :roll eyes:


I happen to really like mission control. There are a few features I'd like (locking apps to certain desktops like spaces use to) but overall its very intuitive.

There is simply no way to work with minimised windows HUGE FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kariya]

It's the first OS X upgrade that i'm seriously considering skipping. Played with the GM and i wasn't really impressed...it just does very little for me overall. That and some features that are important to me have gone MIA.

I'm also shocked that Finder still hasn't been addressed and we're still gonna be using HFS+. But hey its ok, we get MAJOR features like...scrolling/gestures...fullscreen view...window resizing...iOS icons.

🙄

 

[QuarterSwede]

... the hassle of download only makes me want to wait and see

I plan on downloading it overnight. I could imagine it being an issue for those with low caps though.

I think what people don't understand about where Apple is going with OS X is that they're going to eventually add a touch interface. They're really pushing to market it to the average joe who doesn't understand computers. This is exactly the market they tapped with the iDevices.

Also, Apple has always wanted to hide the file system and it's management tools from the user and that's why you don't see much of an improvement to Finder. Eventually it'll be hidden by default. They achieved that goal with iOS and OS X is heading that way.

I've yet to use Lion so I'll reserve any judgement till I do.

 

[JonHimself]

So to the OP (especially) and anyone else making claims of Lion being 'dumbed down': It's been asked at least twice in this thread (that I saw) and yet to be answered: What is it that Lion completely removed vs Snow Leopard that you've found warrants calling the OS 'dumbed down'? Full Screen apps? Reversing scrolling? Cosmetic changes? Hiding the Library folder? Mission Control? Just make an argument with actual examples about how Lion is any less capable than Snow Leopard.

 

[NT1440]

It's the first OS X upgrade that i'm seriously considering skipping. Played with the GM and i wasn't really impressed...it just does very little for me overall. That and some features that are important to me have gone MIA.

I'm also shocked that Finder still hasn't been addressed and we're still gonna be using HFS+. But hey its ok, we get MAJOR features like...scrolling/gestures...fullscreen view...window resizing...iOS icons.

🙄

What is wrong with HFS+ and Finder for you?

You know....elaboration.

 

[QuarterSwede]

What is wrong with HFS+ ... ?

HSF+ was made without the thought of current modern file backups in mind. Time Machine only works because they've bolted it on. Apple was looking at ZFS but has dropped it (I think licensing was an issue). HFS+ is a 13 year old filesystem that is now inefficient. There are much better file systems out there.

 

[Kariya]

Finder is still arguably the most scantily featured, inconsistent, amnesia suffering app in OS X. I appreciate the Cocoa rewrite, Quicklook and general patches over the years but it could still be so much more

Like QS said HFS+ is ancient. Over a decade old and is based on a file system that over quarter of a century old. As a result it's not the exactly all that efficient and lacks modern features which OS X could benefit from. Basic summary at the bottom of this page

 

[PowerGamerX]

Finder is still arguably the most scantily featured, inconsistent, amnesia suffering app in OS X. I appreciate the Cocoa rewrite, Quicklook and general patches over the years but it could still be so much more

Like QS said HFS+ is ancient. Over a decade old and is based on a file system that over quarter of a century old. As a result it's not the exactly all that efficient and lacks modern features which OS X could benefit from. Basic summary at the bottom of this page

HFS+ is about the only thing I really think Apple should address. Finder could use a rebuild as well, although I don't think it's too bad with all the tune-ups they've added over the years.

 

[maflynn]

HFS+ is about the only thing I really think Apple should address. Finder could use a rebuild as well, although I don't think it's too bad with all the tune-ups they've added over the years.

Device independence is another aspect that apple could address as well.

 

[Lord Appleseed]

Mission Control is pathetic, Lion has the worst windows management ever in any OS.

Whats the freaking purpose of hiding the library folder?

So a complete overview of ALL open windows sorted by program, which no other OS was able to do up until now, is "pathetic"? 🙄

The freaking purpose is to keep clueless people out of there so they don't mess with things they don't understand. People that know what they do have their ways to enter anyway. Microsoft is doing that too btw.

 

[BlackMangoTree]

Mission Control is the biggest downfall to Lion makes windows management terrible bad. Dealing with many windows Spaces and Expose was easy, fast, and very efficient. Mission Control is slow and clunky and with no way to handle minimised windows makes the workflow so frustrating and slow.

I will not be upgrading to Lion on my main work machine.

 

[BlackMangoTree]

The freaking purpose is to keep clueless people out of there so they don't mess with things they don't understand. People that know what they do have their ways to enter anyway. Microsoft is doing that too btw.

Yet the system library is not hidden. What is stopping these clueless people you talk about messing with things there.

 

[leman]

From what I've seen of Lion, Apple added many of the best features from iOS to OS X, while not sacrificing anything from OS X itself. I see absolutely no reason to complain about that. "Merging" of iOS and OS X, in the way that the two systems present similar UI and workflows (while the desktop version retaining the power of Unix workstation), is a logical development and one I will completely welcome and support.

Many people will rant, just because they are totally inflexible about their own habits and preferences. They are afraid of change and complain about their Mac turning into a "large iPad", which is a horribly flawed comparison. Its the same with many people still(!) actually preferring that piece of crap Windows XP is to the much better Vista and Windows 7. I've also recently read some people bashing recent browsers because the "UI is too streamlined and it does not feels like a serious tool anymore". I have absolutely no understanding for arguments like that. There is no reasonable logic in that. I mean, no of OP's arguments make any sense. Built-in online backup/sync, improved Finder, much improved windows management (OS X does not do window align, its a whole different interaction philosophy) - these are exactly things which make Lion attractive for power users. Mission control makes so much more sense then SL's management if you have lots of open windows. I do miss the 2D arrangement of spaces a bit, but the new system is not very much different and surely nothing to cry about.

To sum it up: If you are unwilling to adapt the change, then just stay in the past and do not update. No reason to complain about your own lack of sense .

 

[throttlemeister]

yeah. I don't like Lion either, Snow Leopard was great.

Ya'll do realize this is the exact same thing when SL came out and Leopard before that, and ....

And people are probably going to say the same thing again when 10.8 comes out.

 

[stefan1975]

So to the OP (especially) and anyone else making claims of Lion being 'dumbed down': It's been asked at least twice in this thread (that I saw) and yet to be answered: What is it that Lion completely removed vs Snow Leopard that you've found warrants calling the OS 'dumbed down'? Full Screen apps? Reversing scrolling? Cosmetic changes? Hiding the Library folder? Mission Control? Just make an argument with actual examples about how Lion is any less capable than Snow Leopard.

it's not just about lion, just the general direction OSX is going since SL. And of course many settings can be reverted, but the default of OSX is changing towards the average joe.

There are some new features here that are acutally pretty decent and i will upgrade to lion with the rest of us, i was just expressing an opinion about things i do not like about the direction this is going.

There is no reason for namecalling in this thread, really.

i just feel that instead of a few new graphical enhancements there should have been more technical imporvements. to sum it up, here's my list

• memory management (lion really doesn't improve on handling and using RAM)
• hfs+ (was a great FS .... 5 years ago)
• spaces on a grid, vertical and horizontal
• MAS (since 10.6.x really, but just try to remove a app from it)
• opening launchpad every time i install an app
• hiding system directories (bet they'll hide the terminal next)
• TRIM support for 3rd party ssd's
• finder (it really hasn't improved, even Dolphin is much niver to work with now)
• safari (personal taste, but i really hoped they would add features other browsers have had for years)
• A.D. integration
• app store download only (i know i can hack this by burning the install.dmg)

but if this results in a flamewar then just close up this thread, i'm not calling anyhone an idiot who actually likes the graphical improvements lion has for them.

 

[simsaladimbamba]

They haven't removed any features from Snow Leopard. Just added some cool iOS style things and your gonna hate.

Really? Then where is the old Spaces and Exposé gone? It has been removed and has been replaced with Mission Control. Spaces and Exposé are the features of Mac OS X I use the most, therefore OS X Lion has taken a way a feature for me and many others.
I know I can still use some kind of "Spaces" called Desktops now, but 12 horizontal small Desktops on the top of the screen are less intuitive for me than four columns and three rows of Spaces.
Maybe I can adapt at a later point in time, but until then, I guess I am just an idiot, like all the other users who are still using 10.5 or even 10.4. Stupid sods.

 

[Typswif2fingers]

Really? Then where is the old Spaces and Exposé gone? It has been removed and has been replaced with Mission Control. Spaces and Exposé are the features of Mac OS X I use the most, therefore OS X Lion has taken a way a feature for me and many others.
I know I can still use some kind of "Spaces" called Desktops now, but 12 horizontal small Desktops on the top of the screen are less intuitive for me than four columns and three rows of Spaces.
Maybe I can adapt at a later point in time, but until then, I guess I am just an idiot, like all the other users who are still using 10.5 or even 10.4. Stupid sods.

I hear you.

I so hear you.

Unfortunately, I just don't have many apps open in the same window for the Mission control to be useful. I use different windows (i.e. Spaces) for different apps.

I think there are a lot of ways of solving the issue.

Either split the spaces as they used to be and have the improved expose (kinda quite like the little app icon in the Mission control).

Or have a grid arrangement for desktops in Mission control taking 1/2 screen and Expose the other 1/2. Or some fancy "superimposed" arrangement.

Or leave it as it is but allow for the Spaces option in addition to what is allowed now... etc.

So many ways to skin the cat.

I really find the desktops too small... and I use only 6 atm... God forbid I wanted more... Need the bloody magnifying glass... (oh yes.. that could be an option.. a desktop magnifies, a little bit more than it does now, if you put a cursor over it... or similar)...

The problem is that people are so defensive of Apple. And any critique of a part of OS is perceived as an attack on the whole, as wanting to live in the past etc.. So unfair..

I like the Lion.. Very much.

Its just that an application which I use, a lot (and I really think I use spaces more than anything else built into the OS), is not the best and it could be better.

It bloody better be 🙂

 

[djrod]

What a well thought out and reasoned post complete with examples to ensure no one mistakes you as a whiner. :roll eyes:


I happen to really like mission control. There are a few features I'd like (locking apps to certain desktops like spaces use to) but overall its very intuitive.

Try right click on the app icon in the dock, maybe you get a pleasant surprise 😛

 

[djrod]

Really? Then where is the old Spaces and Exposé gone? It has been removed and has been replaced with Mission Control. Spaces and Exposé are the features of Mac OS X I use the most, therefore OS X Lion has taken a way a feature for me and many others.
I know I can still use some kind of "Spaces" called Desktops now, but 12 horizontal small Desktops on the top of the screen are less intuitive for me than four columns and three rows of Spaces.
Maybe I can adapt at a later point in time, but until then, I guess I am just an idiot, like all the other users who are still using 10.5 or even 10.4. Stupid sods.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/

 

[simsaladimbamba]

http://www.apple.com/feedback/

I know, but I guess Spaces wasn't a feature used that often by many people in the same way a lot of people do it here.
All the people I know using 10.5 or 10.6 don't even know what Spaces is and are confused by it, if I show them.
But I will give it a shot.

 

[Phil A.]

Try right click on the app icon in the dock, maybe you get a pleasant surprise 😛

That would be the options shown in the attached screenshot I guess?
Personally, I feel it's the emotive "dumbed down" phraseology that is unnecessary. Yes, Lion has some differences, but there is very little, if any, evidence of "dumbing down", and the list of issues from the OP, whilst valid, are not "dumbing down"

How is adding full disk encryption dumbing down?
How is using a 64 bit kernel and secure virtual memory dumbing down?
How is adding support for Windows Distributed file System dumbing down?
How is improved ASLR and applications sandboxing dumbing down?

Lion is, as all other OS X releases were, a full blown Unix implementation. It may add a few more things to make it easier for novice users, but I don't see how that's a bad thing: the power is still there when you need it. Personally, I prefer Mission Control to the old way of working - I understand some people may prefer the old way, but just because it's different doesn't mean it's useless...

 

[JonHimself]

... I understand some people may prefer the old way, but just because it's different doesn't mean it's useless...

Exactly. It also doesn't mean that it's dumbed down. I may just be attachment a tone or a viewpoint that what they think = what most people think to other people's posts, but it's hard to understand how someone can think that because they don't like a feature or they wish things hadn't changed that it automatically means it's a 'dumb' or 'stupid feature or, as you mean, a useless feature.

 

[BlackMangoTree]

No way to work with manage minimised windows is pathetically stupid.