Apple lost its mojo with iOS lion?

[BlackMangoTree]

I don't have a trackpad but no it does not work like Snow Leopard anymore. Huge backwards step.
Using "Application Windows" command only works with the current active app.

Apple must be on drugs.

 

[nuckinfutz]

It's the first OS X upgrade that i'm seriously considering skipping. Played with the GM and i wasn't really impressed...it just does very little for me overall. That and some features that are important to me have gone MIA.

I'm also shocked that Finder still hasn't been addressed and we're still gonna be using HFS+. But hey its ok, we get MAJOR features like...scrolling/gestures...fullscreen view...window resizing...iOS icons.

The Finder...lol. Didn't you guys get the memo? Apple hasn't put much work into the Finder since Spotlight took over. It's not going to happen folks. If Lion was $129 I'd agree with some of you but Lion is cheaper than a trip to the movies + concessions. At $30 it's a no brainer unless you need Rosetta support IMO

• memory management (lion really doesn't improve on handling and using RAM)
• hfs+ (was a great FS .... 5 years ago)
• spaces on a grid, vertical and horizontal
• MAS (since 10.6.x really, but just try to remove a app from it)
• opening launchpad every time i install an app
• hiding system directories (bet they'll hide the terminal next)
• TRIM support for 3rd party ssd's
• finder (it really hasn't improved, even Dolphin is much niver to work with now)
• safari (personal taste, but i really hoped they would add features other browsers have had for years)
• A.D. integration
• app store download only (i know i can hack this by burning the install.dmg)

but if this results in a flamewar then just close up this thread, i'm not calling anyhone an idiot who actually likes the graphical improvements lion has for them.

Actually Lion does improve Memory Management via LLVM being a more suitable replacement for GCC (http://llvm.org/docs/GarbageCollection.html)

hfs+ is fine for consumers and Apple's presence in the Enterprise is largely mobile only. There really was no need for something robust like ZFS IMO.

I just delete the MAS app an it's gone. After all the MAS apps pretty much have to be a self contained package.

Launchpad isn't bad ...it's understandable if you've got an iPad you know exactly how it works.

If you know your stuff hidden directories won't prove much of a problem.

TRIM support for 3rd party SSD...just buy a SSD with it's own Garbage Collection. This is really a complaint that will affect less than 5% of Mac owners.

Finder - The perfect filesystem is one that doesn't require a Finder or Explorer.

Safari - Better extensions support and Webkit 2.

A.D integration - handled best by 3rd party tools (http://www.thursby.com/products/admitmac.html) etc

App Store download is a nice feature. Saves me burning $3.50 a gallon to run to the store an buy a copy plus I can run on up to 5 Macs that are Lion capable. That's a steal.

 

[BlackMangoTree]

The Finder...lol. Didn't you guys get the memo? Apple hasn't put much work into the Finder since Spotlight took over. It's not going to happen folks. If Lion was $129 I'd agree with some of you but Lion is cheaper than a trip to the movies + concessions. At $30 it's a no brainer unless you need Rosetta support IMO

Or need to work with many windows. Once your windows are minimised to the dock pftttttt.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Or need to work with many windows. Once your windows are minimised to the dock pftttttt.

The point of spaces is that you don't have to minimise your windows...you just switch to a different space.

 

[BlackMangoTree]

The point of spaces is that you don't have to minimise your windows...you just switch to a different space.

Thats a very cumbersome replacement. I have an application open with 2 windows one on each space then i require them on the same space, it's just slow, cumbersome and backwards compared to SL. Imgine when working with many windows 10 +. Not to mention having to create a space for every window. It's just not an alternative.

In SL you could activate show all windows and all windows would show even minimised making switching between windows and apps very simple and quick. All with the click of a mouse button.

 

[stefan1975]

Actually Lion does improve Memory Management via LLVM being a more suitable replacement for GCC (http://llvm.org/docs/GarbageCollection.html)

well maybe they've improved it somewhat, i still think it is a memory hog though, especially compared to what m$ did in win7, that has actually improved a lot.

hfs+ is fine for consumers and Apple's presence in the Enterprise is largely mobile only. There really was no need for something robust like ZFS IMO.

well i've used ZFS on all my (open)solaris systems and i think it is brilliant, heck it even does that autosave time machine thing apple is so proud about ... ootb, and they could have easily improved on it, if not zfs they could have used EXT4 or BTRFS. Both are more 2011 then hfs+

I just delete the MAS app an it's gone. After all the MAS apps pretty much have to be a self contained package.

yes you can remove the app from your system, but try to remove it from MAS. When the MAS was introduced i tried it out by installing a whole bunch of apps (and even accidentally a $99 app i didnt want by brushing against the buy now button). Those apps are all in my purchased list even though i removed them all from my system, for each of those apps the MAS icon is now showing an update badge .... but i don't have those installed anymore. i can't get rid of them from the MAS nor the update list so i am stuck with a continuous update badge in my dock.

Launchpad isn't bad ...it's understandable if you've got an iPad you know exactly how it works.

i have an ipad, iphone and ipad2 so i know how it works. it is brilliant on those. On my mac i don't like it, it has no touch interface and unlike my ipad i cannot touch and hold it to make them wobble and remove apps/icons. Heck i can't get rid of any of them and the upgrade somehow put in two of all default apps (dvd player, quicktime, safari, etc.) which i now cannot remove. it's not improving my workflow either swiping for launchpad, swiping to the correct page, clicking the icon ... when i can just do command-space-spotlight-first two letters-enter

If you know your stuff hidden directories won't prove much of a problem.

agreed, just don't prefer this as the default setting

TRIM support for 3rd party SSD...just buy a SSD with it's own Garbage Collection. This is really a complaint that will affect less than 5% of Mac owners.

the apple SSD only limitation is purely artificial for commercial reasons and imho is annoying. I think most users in need for a stable SSD will look at the intel x25 or intel 320 or 510 series with the lowest rate of failure of them all, it doesnt have aggresive GC like the OCZ or kingston's have though, so TRIM would be welcome.
I have an intel 320 myself and now i have to hack the OS to enable TRIM .. it works just fine so no reason for apple not to support it, now when i update lion i bet the TRIM hack is disabled again.

Finder - The perfect filesystem is one that doesn't require a Finder or Explorer.

perhaps, but i still have need for finder, windows explorer and Dolphin on my systems. on my ipad2 i don't miss FS interaction at all but on lion i could still not go without. Pathfinder is a decent alternative though, much better then the native finder ... the "old" pathfinder is even still better then the "new" lion finder.

Safari - Better extensions support and Webkit 2.

speed is fine and i like the new back-forward sliding thingy but i miss features other browsers use these days like an omnibox, tabs on top, search while you type, sandboxing, etc.

A.D integration - handled best by 3rd party tools (http://www.thursby.com/products/admitmac.html) etc

fair enough. logging an iMac into a win 2008 R2 domain takes 4 minutes now.

App Store download is a nice feature. Saves me burning $3.50 a gallon to run to the store an buy a copy plus I can run on up to 5 Macs that are Lion capable. That's a steal.

the price of lion is perfect, for the average joe a download with a highspeed uncapped internet connection is fine too, the upgrade is also pretty smooth. I just would have liked being able to have a dvd doing a clean install on my intel 320 SSD without having to resort to burning the DMG from the .app, not many people will know how to do this i think.

 

[AnthonyHarris]

Well i think GM is not considered beta, it is what we will be buying next week in MAS and by performance i know bounces counting is not rocket science, hence the ''. I am also not referring to 3rd party apps, safari, fcpx, iwork are all 1st party apps.

And i cannot choose to ignore all 'improvements' in lion. The mas, mission control instead of spaces on a grid are not optional.

I i do like to think i know a little about operating systems. I've been a sysadmin since '97 among which all nixes and osx desktop systems and yet i still believe that sl and lion memory management is kinda lame.

I will still upgrade to lion, i'm just ranting here about the fact that apple in all ways is forgetting the prousers and focusing on mainstream instead, they're a company with stockholders so i know why they do it, i just want to rant about it here

Well if you came here and had chosen your words wisely instead of contradicting yourself time and time again, people might have treated you and your opinion with a little respect...

As it goes, you sound like a spoiled 12 year old child with no knowledge and very little intention of giving Lion a chance.

Lion is a bit challenging to get used to if you are coming from Snow Leopard, but give it a few weeks. Apple can't keep everything the same forever. They are changing the face of computing, and in my opinion it will be for the better in the long run.

As far as the App Store in concerned... You may have to upgrade your system with it but You don't have to buy applications from it. Go to the shop and buy applications, or download them from torrents. Of course. People think Apple are trying to take over the world but they are just trying to make it easier (while making money) for end users to gain access to a huge catalogue of Apps.
If anyone else had thought of it first they would have been praised, but Apple is EVIL 'Sarcasm'.

 

[maflynn]

And i cannot choose to ignore all 'improvements' in lion. The mas, mission control instead of spaces on a grid are not optional.

I i do like to think i know a little about operating systems. I've been a sysadmin since '97 among which all nixes and osx desktop systems and yet i still believe that sl and lion memory management is kinda lame.

I will still upgrade to lion, i'm just ranting here about the fact that apple in all ways is forgetting the prousers and focusing on mainstream instead, they're a company with stockholders so i know why they do it, i just want to rant about it here

Why are you upgrading to Lion when you seem to dislike most (all?) of the features that apple added to OSX? If this version of OSX offers no features or improvements which it doesn't seem to for your needs/wants then why bothers.

For instance, I'm holding off for that very reason. Perhaps I'll upgrade in the future but right now, none of the major features that apple highlighted is enough to tempt me. Snow Leopard is a stable, well functioning OS that will continue to work flawlessly after the release of Lion.

I'm a sys admin for windows servers and one thing I learned is you don't jump on an upgrade right out of the shoot. Wait until you see what type of bug reports start coming forth.

 

[stefan1975]

Why are you upgrading to Lion when you seem to dislike most (all?) of the features that apple added to OSX? If this version of OSX offers no features or improvements which it doesn't seem to for your needs/wants then why bothers.

well some of our users will be migrating which we will have to support as well, and newly purchased macs will come with lion as well. We also develop websites that we need to test on lion with chrome and the new safari.

I'm a sys admin for windows servers and one thing I learned is you don't jump on an upgrade right out of the shoot. Wait until you see what type of bug reports start coming forth.

lol true, but hey that's M$, right? I always wait for at least SP1 before migrating to a new windows server. However W2k8R2 was actually pretty decent right from the get go.

 

[RedRaven571]

Is it possible that Lion might become M'soft's Windows Vista? Remains to be seen.

LOL. I remember reading that exact same statement on these forums about SL.

BTW, I type with 2 fingers too, occasionally 3.....

 

[RedRaven571]

... forget the loyal fans and create something shiny for the general population.

Apple is a corporation, after all, and the goal of every corp is to increase profits for its shareholders. Although the stats show that Apple's growth in sales of Macs is proportionately greater than PCs running Windows, it still has a small share of the overall computer market; with the success of iPods, iPhones and iPads, if they think making the Mac interface more like these products will drive sales and give them a bigger slice of the overall market then that is a sound business decision. Even if they may alienate a subsection of the current users.....

 

[dusk007]

I really think the scrolling is a bad idea unless you actually touch the screen but hey it is optional.
The launchpad is probably aimed at those users who now own iphones or ipads and make the switch to an OSX. They got a AppStore and a Launchpad and will be able to do some basic App installation and startup stuff very intuitively.
Any serious user will probably never use it. Same as some of the default dock icons that trigger spaces or this widget thingy. Pretty much everybody will remove those from the dock and trigger this stuff through buttons, gestures, ..
It is still a good starting point for n00bs.

Of course there are those who never really learn anything and still use the system very inefficiently but that is really their own problem.

As for Apple and there Marketing of new features. That is really a college problem. This is just how marketing is taught and done today. They have no clue what they are talking about but they get paid for doing flashy presentations that nobody with half a brain takes seriously. In my opinion marketing folks and lawyers are two types of jobs for which our system trains way too many people. One feels like they need to occupy themselves and sometime do more work and than needs to be done just because they are here and want to look busy and useful.

 

[urkel]

with the success of iPods, iPhones and iPads, if they think making the Mac interface more like these products will drive sales and give them a bigger slice of the overall market then that is a sound business decision. Even if they may alienate a subsection of the current users.....

Apple has definitely proven that they would gladly cut off an arm if it would increase their chances to grow back a bionic mega arm with built in lasers and a periscope.

BUT, the question I have is this. Does Lion really make things easier on new customers? The awkward giant icon'd multiple page layout of Launchpad. The confusing assortment if info compiled into Mission Space. The awkward and unnatural new gestures. As experienced OS X users it's easy to see why some are thrown for a loop on these new features, but how about brand new switchers? The iOS idea of how things work are great for a tablet but don't match up 1 to 1 on a computer so I feel many of these new concepts are going to be even tougher to grasp for those who aren't trained to "Think like Apple".

 

[stefan1975]

well for what it's worth ... i do love the disappearing scrollbars on safari, makes so much sense not to show them when they aren't necessary.

 

[andreiru]

What exactly do you feel has been dumbed down?

I admit i don't like the new scrolling, but that can be changed easily.

Apart from that I am quite liking it. I am really loving the fullscreen safari browsing and have actually changed back for a bit from chrome now.

cmd+Shift+F = full screen in Chrome. You can also get a plugin to switch off the scroll bar which is how I prefer it. Chrome takes tenth of a second to load a page. Firefox is about as fast as well. My Safari on SL is a lot slower and no full screen at all + Chrome's interface is more preferable.

 

[stefan1975]

cmd+Shift+F = full screen in Chrome. You can also get a plugin to switch off the scroll bar which is how I prefer it. Chrome takes tenth of a second to load a page. Firefox is about as fast as well. My Safari on SL is a lot slower and no full screen at all + Chrome's interface is more preferable.

well although i am no fan of safari usually i must admit that on lion it is really quite fast, besides since it is a 'native' app it is the only browser that works with the new gestures currently. Also chrome on lion doesnt really play nice with the full screen thingy yet, hiding everything.

for now i will use safari on lion, until chrome releases a new dev channel version that plays nice with the new o.s. if only they'd fix that memory leak.

 

[antmarobel]

Lion is absolutely perfect!

 

[stefan1975]

Lion is absolutely perfect!

well I am glad for you that you like lion.

some people may think differently and need features that are missing or get features that are unwanted or unfinished, but if lion is for you then +1 to you.

 

[maclaptop]

[rant]

So took the plunge and upgraded to lion GM. I cannot believe how much of a disappointment it is. Oh it runs great, fast and stable but it feels like what they did to fcpx as well, dumbed it down for prosumers and forget about powerusers.

I don't want iOS on my 15" hr ag mbp but osx. Sure there are a lot of new bling bling new features like they put into safari before. Sure it animates in nifty ways but what good are those mission control and that app launcher thingy, heck this is not my ipad why do i need ios folders.

I want spaces not that compiz ripoff mission control or those sliding desktops. I dont't have a mbp touch screen so why invert scrolling when the mouse cursos behaves the other way around.

It feels like this is not a new OS at all but merely some trinkets for the masses slapped on SL, it sure is .... Dare i say it .... Less of an improvement windows7 was for m$

They should have bothered with the important stuff and nit just the gui. Trim without hacking, memory management, speed up loading times, bring safari in 2011, allow windows aligning and other such ui improvements like kde and aero saw but they just put in more useless gesture stuff unstead.

[/rant]

But i'll probably upgrade anyway, just frustrated that apple seems the new m$ just focusing on where the money is, the masses.

Thank you for your candid take on OS X 10.7.

It is indeed a very dumbed down overly fluffy tribute to the grandparents of America. It's designed so as to pander to them and get them to part with retirement money while visiting their local Apple store.

That said in many ways, it's a very brilliant move by Apple to capture even more consumer money, the only thing they seem to value.

I give them credit, they have taken some beautiful and highly useful computers and reduced them to mere appliances for mom and pop.

And here I though Apple was better than that. Boy was I wrong.

 

[absolutazn87]

I found a pretty major bug when it comes to trackpad gestures.

The "natural" (reversed) scrolling doesn't fully apply when you select swipe between pages with two OR three fingers. This makes swiping with two fingers the reversed way but doesn't change the direction of three finger swiping. So basically...if you're in Safari and want to go to the previous page, you can swipe right with two fingers or LEFT with three fingers. And enabling swiping with two or three fingers is the only way to be able to swipe to the previous page in Finder or Twitter etc...

That Apple would overlook something this basic is ridiculous.

 

[Miloh]

No way to work with manage minimised windows is pathetically stupid.

Select the application window.

Control + Down arrow

Congratulations, you've just rediscovered old expose.

All the keyboard shortcuts are accessible from the settings for the particular fearture, in this case under Mission Control.

Anyways, Lion is great, all the whining I've been reading makes no sense as almost all the new features are OPTIONAL. I removed launchpad from the dock right away, undid the reverse scrolling, and I don't use fullscreen on this C2D iMac which runs Lion perfectly fine with the exception of some animations because of the old graphics card.
Mission Control is awesome, it takes a little getting used to but once it clicks in your mind how it works it just makes sense why Apple made it this way.

Overall Lion hasn't really changed much beyond spaces and expose (try control + down arrow with an app).

 

[runebinder]

I've not been in to Macs for that long, about 3 years or so. Lion is only the second new OS X release where I've paid any attention to what has been said before from people testing out the Developer versions.

So is it always like this, with the wailing and complaining how the new OS is compared to the current one? I've read a lot of negative comments that are almost verbatim in ways to what was being said about SL in comparison to Leopard. Were similar comments also said about Leopard in comparison to Tiger etc? It almost like Ground Hog day in here.

I've yet to have a play and waiting for the full release, as I'm not signed up to the developer platform and I'm not going to torrent etc. However I will be getting it on release day as:

A: I like new shiny.
B: I'm a geek.
C: I work in Tech support and wrote the Apple Mac course for where I work, so had best be up to date.

Now some things I may love and some I may hate, but from the sounds of it I will be able to disable the majority of the things I dislike, and really don't get the complaints when that's the case.

Personally I think Launchpad is awful as I have Spotlight, however can see why Apple have done it as Mac adoption has increased with the popularity of iDevices, so makes sense to blend the 2 from a marketing perspective. After all they are a money grabbing corporation like any other but at least Lion is nice and cheap.

 

[benthewraith]

[rant]

So took the plunge and upgraded to lion GM. I cannot believe how much of a disappointment it is. Oh it runs great, fast and stable but it feels like what they did to fcpx as well, dumbed it down for prosumers and forget about power users.

I don't disagree with you there. There does seem to be some dumbing down.

I don't want iOS on my 15" hr ag mbp but osx. Sure there are a lot of new bling bling new features like they put into safari before. Sure it animates in nifty ways but what good are those mission control and that app launcher thingy, heck this is not my ipad why do i need ios folders.

Honestly, I'm not liking the LaunchPad at all. The closest function to it was the Grid applications folder, and it didn't show junk like Adobe uninstallers all over the place.

I want spaces not that compiz ripoff mission control or those sliding desktops. I dont't have a mbp touch screen so why invert scrolling when the mouse cursos behaves the other way around.

Sort of agree here. I liked being able to assign certain applications to certain spaces. Mission Control seems somewhat like a gimmick, or a dumbing down of spaces for those who don't know how to use it.

It feels like this is not a new OS at all but merely some trinkets for the masses slapped on SL, it sure is .... Dare i say it .... Less of an improvement windows7 was for m$

Can't speak of this as I don't know what under the belt changes occurred in Lion's development.

They should have bothered with the important stuff and nit just the gui. Trim without hacking, memory management, speed up loading times, bring safari in 2011, allow windows aligning and other such ui improvements like kde and aero saw but they just put in more useless gesture stuff instead.

Mac OS X's main UI hasn't been refreshed since Leopard. Lion's been relatively weak. I was expecting the trend with Quicktime X to show the development of OS X.

 

[applecheese]

I found a pretty major bug when it comes to trackpad gestures.

The "natural" (reversed) scrolling doesn't fully apply when you select swipe between pages with two OR three fingers. This makes swiping with two fingers the reversed way but doesn't change the direction of three finger swiping. So basically...if you're in Safari and want to go to the previous page, you can swipe right with two fingers or LEFT with three fingers. And enabling swiping with two or three fingers is the only way to be able to swipe to the previous page in Finder or Twitter etc...

That Apple would overlook something this basic is ridiculous.

I noticed this too. Very annoying.

 

[jsep]

This makes swiping with two fingers the reversed way but doesn't change the direction of three finger swiping.

I originally thought they had a logical reason for doing this, then i swiped with 4 fingers the "natural" way to change spaces. I do not understand why 3 fingers would work opposite of 2.