Apple May Briefly Drop to World's Third Largest Smartphone Maker For First Time Since 2011

[gatearray]

just how long do you think it will take Apple put aside its righteousness (and caring for its users)?

News today that Facebook routes their traffic through a secret VPN to spy on users habits and see the other apps they use, it's part of their business strategy and informs their acquisitions and feature copy-cats...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-ne...squashes-competition-from-startups-1502293444

So when Apple inexplicably baked Facebook (NSA front) directly into iOS some 5 years ago less than a year after Steve died, we now know why. Forestall must've objected so they concocted that phony Maps story and used it to fire him.

Facebook does all the spying on iOS users, that's what all that battery-killing background activity with their app was all about a while back! Oops...

So when Apple says "we don't spy" it's only technically true, they use a proxy to keep their hands clean just in case the feces hits the fan.

 

[Naraxus]

I’m amazed at how much space Apple rumor sites give to reports about smartphone shipments. No vendor outside of Apple reliably supplies sales figures so these are all guesses and estimates based on supply chain rumors or firms like IDC that back in 2011 claimed Windows Phone would have larger market share than iOS right now.

As has been discussed before ad nausem Apple's sales figures are nothing more than accounting sleight of hand and are really just shipments to stores and not to end users.

 

[Adam_A]

Except Apple still makes all the money, so is this really competition?
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Wrong, ridiculous thinking. The millions of phones that Apple sells are NOT, repeat NOT, all purchased by “isheep”, my parents, and many other people I know that don’t give two hangs about tech buy Apple happily, because it’s a better product. People pay what it’s worth. And keep buying it. The collective intelligence of all those millions who believe what they pay is worth it supersedes your opinion. Sorry.
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Amazing... just because I’m willing to pay more than you are doesnt mean I’m being overcharged. They charge what it costs To make plus about 30%. I don’t have a problem with that.

Hey don't forget Apple still sells the iPhone SE which is cheap for a phone like that. The iPhone 8 is only going to cost $200 more then an S8 does which makes sense because it's going to do more and has more features in it. The iPhone 7s if for the people that don't want to pay a lot for a iPhone. Also don't forget Apple doesn't completely have control of what the phone cost because most it's parts are made by 3rd party which means they can make Apple pay whatever they want. Don't worry Apple has there finger on the trigger. If a company starts to attack Apple, that trigger will launch a nuke on them. Apple is almost a trillion $ company (In Market Cap) and I don't think a small nobody Chinese company will stand a chance.
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The one thing that could doom Apple at least in the short term is a new Korean War. Shut down LG and Samsung who are a couple of their biggest suppliers and things will be ugly for awhile.

That's exactly why Apple is working on making the own supply chain. If Apple makes there own supply chain it will make our iPhones cheaper, More reliable, and it will hurt both Samsung and LG. But I think LG is a good companY.

 

[mistasopz]

No problem. Just rate the profit margin.

I've never understood why Apple users are always so happy that Apple charges unreasonably high margins. In fact, they constantly boast about them. I guess I must be one of the few that doesn't like donating to giant corporations and saying "thank-you, may I have another?"

 

[mib1800]

The iPhone 8 is only going to cost $200 more then an S8 does which makes sense because it's going to do more and has more features in it.

S8 is now $600. If the rumoured iphone 8 at $1200 (128gb version) is correct, with this money you can buy 2 S8.

I doubt the iphone 8 will have more features than s8. As it stands now, s8 has a lot more features over the 7. If anything the iphone 8 is just playing catch-up to s8.

 

[Sevendaymelee]

As long as Apple continues to sell the number one selling smart phone on the planet and their earnings are what they currently are, none of this matters.

 

[AppleScruff1]

>> "Huawei is now closing in fast on Apple and Apple will be looking nervously over its shoulder in the next few quarters," said Woody Oh, Director at Strategy Analytics. <<

Gotta laugh at this. Huawei is the one nervously thinking about this, just like with Samsung, Apple won't care.

I'd bet that Huawei isn't nervous at all.

 

[Analog Kid]

I've never understood why Apple users are always so happy that Apple charges unreasonably high margins. In fact, they constantly boast about them. I guess I must be one of the few that doesn't like donating to giant corporations and saying "thank-you, may I have another?"

Why are people so happy that strangers in China buy Huawei?

 

[kdarling]

If Apple makes there own supply chain it will make our iPhones cheaper ...

Thanks. I needed a laugh today.

Judging from history, all it'll do is increase their profit margin.

 

[MacBH928]

There is no news here. Apple was always the company with smaller market share and higher margins.

 

[mwd25]

According to the article... Huawei might soon become the 2nd largest smartphone OEM by volume worldwide.

A couple years ago they weren't even in the Top 5

Aren't those some results?

Well, no. If a company sells 500,000 phones for $1 they make $500,000
If another company only sells 10,000 phones for $200, guess what? Thats $2,000,000
So who is the more successful company? In your metrics the OEM that sold the largest by volume worldwide. But Im pretty sure anyone asked would prefer to be the company that only sold a paltry 10,000
See how your argument just falls apart?

 

[Heltik]

Is it me, or is that phone basically identical looking to an iPhone? It's obscene. Google stealing Apple's IP is essentially bad for the US economy - they've commoditised Apple tech to a degree that competition is nigh-on impossible longer term against the low-cost knock-offs from China. So Apple needs to be forever innovating in a space that it should be enjoying greater success, just so others can copy it. Where does Apple receive financial recognition for its design risks in the Asia Market?

 

[CEmajr]

Yet Apple has like 95% of the profits in this industry. They don't really have any competition.

It's like a guy selling tons of lemonade for 10 cents that costs 9 cents to make while the other guy sells a few less glasses of lemonade for $1 that cost 9 cents to make.

 

[WatchFromAfar]

You just gave the classic "we'll lose a dollar on every unit, but make it up on volume" argument. Take your argument one step further-- imagine those other companies decided to give the product away for free. They'd have massive market share as people used them to shim short table legs because they're cheaper than wood, but that's not a sign that the product or the company is better.

If there's no profit, there's no reason to be in business. If there's negative profit, you can't stay in business. So yes, if one company had 5% market share but 100% of the profits, we'd be talking about how that was the one company that wasn't doomed and the financial press would be talking quite a bit about "the need for consolidation".

I liked your post as it was well argued and well written but I'd still take a different view.

Firstly the "we'll lose a dollar on every unit, but make it up on volume" may apply to manufactures that only make smartphones. To companies like Samsung, LG, Sony, Toshiba who make products in other areas having a smartphone is about brand recognition. They want to appear to be current and involved in what's currently popular and having a smartphone division, even if it loses money, is simply a form of brand advertising. If you don't believe in the value of a brand why does Cola-Cola spend 6.9% of their revenue on advertising?

Secondly, The "the need for consolidation" argument doesn't apply to other industries and products so why should it apply to smartphones? I can go into town and choose from hundreds of kettles and I've never felt "Oh man, I wish there was fewer choices".

 

[9081094]

S8 is now $600. If the rumoured iphone 8 at $1200 (128gb version) is correct, with this money you can buy 2 S8.

I doubt the iphone 8 will have more features than s8. As it stands now, s8 has a lot more features over the 7. If anything the iphone 8 is just playing catch-up to s8.

And by the time the iPhone 8 is out in numbers, we'll see the S9 coming. Apple can't innovate as fast as Samsung and the Chinese vendors. The number one reason they're still selling this much is the brand. Cook transformed Apple in the Gucci and Prada from the tech industry. If my iPhone dies I'll be looking for another brand.

 

[Olganech]

What competition? Apple has practically all the profits in the market, and I doubt anyone at Apple loses sleep over the thought of the competition selling vast quantities of cheaper phones. Phones that don't compete with the iPhone in any meaningful manner.

And you think that Apple taking all the profits is a good thing?

I do not.

 

[WatchFromAfar]

So when Apple says "we don't spy" it's only technically true, they use a proxy to keep their hands clean just in case the faeces hits the fan.

And don't forget that every Siri search is performed by Microsoft Bing, Apple doesn't have a search engine, and Microsoft has standing with putting back-doors in software.

 

[shaunp]

I moved over to a Samsung S7 Edge a few months back and I have to say iOS just looks 'old' in comparison to Android now. Apple also no longer make the best phone hardware, and removing the headphone jack has put some buyers off. I won't go back to Apple now because with Android I can choose between many phone brands and get roughly the same experience. So for example if Samsung does something with their hardware I don't like, I can switch to another brand and still keep all the same software, etc. I tend to use the generic Google apps so it's easy to switch. With Apple you only have iPhone of varying sizes and colours and that's it. Yes iOS, iCloud and Mac OS integration is fantastic, but the only thing I'm missing from that is messages and WhatsApp has taken over from that. I don't even thing Apple are overpriced - they just seem stuck in a rut and innovate by removing choices.

 

[Substance90]

I find it funny how many clueless comments Macrumors always attracts regarding Huawei. They aren't just selling in China. In Eastern Europe for example Huawei is as much sought after as any Apple or Samsung smartphone.

These devices aren't your typical cheap iPhone clones either. Especially some of their newer models have a really nice build quality.

Except Apple still makes all the money, so is this really competition?
Amazing... just because I’m willing to pay more than you are doesnt mean I’m being overcharged. They charge what it costs To make plus about 30%. I don’t have a problem with that.

More like 'what it costs to make plus about 300%' (270 € vs 800 €).

 

[9081094]

I moved over to a Samsung S7 Edge a few months back and I have to say iOS just looks 'old' in comparison to Android now. Apple also no longer make the best phone hardware, and removing the headphone jack has put some buyers off. I won't go back to Apple now because with Android I can choose between many phone brands and get roughly the same experience. So for example if Samsung does something with their hardware I don't like, I can switch to another brand and still keep all the same software, etc. I tend to use the generic Google apps so it's easy to switch. With Apple you only have iPhone of varying sizes and colours and that's it. Yes iOS, iCloud and Mac OS integration is fantastic, but the only thing I'm missing from that is messages and WhatsApp has taken over from that. I don't even thing Apple are overpriced - they just seem stuck in a rut and innovate by removing choices.

More and more people realize that they can get the same experience with lots of freedom and choices for half the price. Apple is just relying on its brand name. They're very slow in innovating and only focused on profits. Nothing wrong with that, but more and more people realize they can have better services and experiences elsewhere. Google offers unlimited photo uploads for free, Spotify is eating apple's lunch, google now and maps are so much better than the Apple equivalents. The gap is widening every year. I'm sure Apple is aware but milking their customers to the last drop. When the iPhone profits slowly fades away, they'll come up with something new and the cycle continues.
I thank Apple for the iPhone in 2007 and do believe they've changed the world with it. Fast forwarding to today it's way overpriced and overhauled by Samsung and many other Chinese vendors.
I won't say Apple is doomed. I only say Apple is profit driven and unless customers don't wake up to reality, they'll continue to sell at maximum margins.

I'm curious how long they can continue like this. Other vendors, especially the Chinese, mimic Apple's designs and even outdo Apple with design and better specs. Soon google will find a way to update android like Apple does iOS and than the last advantage will be gone.
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Well, no. If a company sells 500,000 phones for $1 they make $500,000
If another company only sells 10,000 phones for $200, guess what? Thats $2,000,000
So who is the more successful company? In your metrics the OEM that sold the largest by volume worldwide. But Im pretty sure anyone asked would prefer to be the company that only sold a paltry 10,000
See how your argument just falls apart?

Huawei is very profitable by selling better technology for way less than Apple. The only ones benefiting from those exhorbitant huge amount of money Apple makes are their shareholders. Surely not their customers who should be treated as number one. Apple invest very little in R&D compared to other tech companies.

 

[Abazigal]

And you think that Apple taking all the profits is a good thing?

I do not.

It's either good nor bad. It's just the reality of the smartphone market today where Apple and Samsung are pretty much the only profitable smartphone makers out there.

You reap what you sow. Apple set the stage more than a decade ago with iTunes and it's still paying handsome dividends even today.

 

[Darren Beauchamp]

It's like celebrating you got scammed, wehaaa, the company I bought products from, overcharged me so much that they have record profits again! Please raise the prices $100 more, so it's even higher next year!

This. Is. Pure. Gold.

 

[I7guy]

More and more people realize that they can get the same experience with lots of freedom and choices for half the price. Apple is just relying on its brand name. They're very slow in innovating and only focused on profits. Nothing wrong with that, but more and more people realize they can have better services and experiences elsewhere. Google offers unlimited photo uploads for free, Spotify is eating apple's lunch, google now and maps are so much better than the Apple equivalents. The gap is widening every year. I'm sure Apple is aware but milking their customers to the last drop. When the iPhone profits slowly fades away, they'll come up with something new and the cycle continues.
I thank Apple for the iPhone in 2007 and do believe they've changed the world with it. Fast forwarding to today it's way overpriced and overhauled by Samsung and many other Chinese vendors.
I won't say Apple is doomed. I only say Apple is profit driven and unless customers don't wake up to reality, they'll continue to sell at maximum margins.

I'm curious how long they can continue like this. Other vendors, especially the Chinese, mimic Apple's designs and even outdo Apple with design and better specs. Soon google will find a way to update android like Apple does iOS and than the last advantage will be gone.
[doublepost=1502444830][/doublepost]
Huawei is very profitable by selling better technology for way less than Apple. The only ones benefiting from those exhorbitant huge amount of money Apple makes are their shareholders. Surely not their customers who should be treated as number one. Apple invest very little in R&D compared to other tech companies.

Of course when you're operating system is given to you for free and your chip designs are licensed you can afford that great out of the box technology.

Now about r and d. What is the r and d expenditures of these companies dealing with mobile products and mobile ecosystem only. Samsung, Huawei, Apple, google, Facebook ? I have no interest in finding out as my purchase decision does not include investigations into rcand d, but you made a bold (and hyperbolic) statement, so back it up with facts.
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And you think that Apple taking all the profits is a good thing?

I do not.

That's what happens when your customers like your products, whether you deem this good or not, it's reality,

 

[Tiger8]

I think Huawei's real competition will be Samsung. Huawei is just now trying to enter the U.S.market, which inevitably will give the consumer more options for a cheaper handset, with similar aspects to the iPhone. But I agree competition drives the smart phone industry in some respects.

However, it's difficult to compete with iOS and the iPhone build quality coupled with their customer service.

I doubt they will take off in the US. Remember when people thought Xaomi is gonna take over Samsung?

Nowadays there are phones at every part of the price range; Samsung, Motorola, LG, and other recognizable brand names already have phones as low as $60, great phones at $200-$250 (you can even get an IPhone SE at this range).

Don't see what market they will go after

 

[dilbert99]

Except Apple still makes all the money, so is this really competition?

If Apple makes all the money there would be no competition.
Most of the population don't buy iPhones.
I have an iPhone but under no illusion that other phones are competition.