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And who did he prove he was? I have a "clean" iPhone and I experience massive amounts of dropped calls, signal loss, voicemails not showing up for days, texts not showing up for days.. AT&T is just simply the worst service provider in the US.

Look Moxy, your posts already annoy the hell out of people. Please don't add me to the list of annoyed folks here by misquoting me. I have no idea what the hell you quoted me for. Maybe you should go back and read why I replied to that posters post. He came across as a pirate and if you want to support pirates then you're in the wrong place. What you wrote above has nothing to do with the post I quoted. What does YOU having a clean iPhone have to do with why I quoted that guy? :p
 
It is actually not like that.
If you go and buy an iPhone, it is yours, as all of the other stuff you mentioned as example. But the software running on the phone is not yours, you just have the right to use it within the terms of the EULA.

Am I the only one who sees a big problem with this statement. Basically you buy the phone and you borrow the software (with terms).
 
The part of the story that bothers me is not that Apple is locking down the bootloader, or that people are hacking the iPhone to jailbreak or unlock it. The part that bothers me is:

Recent data from mobile advertising firm Pinch Media reveals that it has seen nearly four million jailbroken devices on its ad network, with 38% of those using at least one pirated application.

Why does Pinch Media get such a deep look into the devices that it can tell not only that the phone has been jailbroken, but what apps are on the phone and whether they are pirated or not!? This is way beyond reasonable and, in my mind at least, constitutes a serious privacy breach. If they can see the pirated/not pirated status of all the apps on the phone, how do I know they can't see into the apps - like contact lists, email, etc? Even if they can't, how would you feel about a website that gathered information about all the software (and the licensing) on your computer when you visited?

There was a story back a ways that Pinch Media and a few others collected data from the users of their apps. Things like location and other various information. Several of the companies worked with Saurik, owner of Cydia, to turn off data collection in their programs. So they made a program only on Cydia to turn off the collection of data for said groups. So the JBers can turn off the data collection from those groups while virgin phones cannot yet.

Also I am a JBer and use it for themes. I am with you on stopping the pirates but for the people that actually use the JB as a way to express ourself and use the phone to a better extent this is upsetting. There are always holes and I am sure the Dev Team and/or GeoHot can find them.
 
Am I the only one who sees a big problem with this statement. Basically you buy the phone and you borrow the software (with terms).

It is quite common that there are terms of use that you have to follow, even if you bought and own the product.

I would not call it "borrow software". Usually you own the right to use the software. Just you do not own the software itself.
 
I'm an advocate for jailbreaking. Why?

I get features the phone doesn't have. I'm not interested in piracy, but it would be awesome if Apple had some type of shareware trial on apps so people can try out paid apps. That would curve the piracy quite a bit. It would suck to pay $100 for a GPS app, to only learn, my new road isn't on there and it doesn't work in my area of the woods.

Playing by the rules?
Look, if no one really thought to step outside the box, the box wouldn't have a reason to try to expand and get the people back in. Now I'm not advocating any extreme measures here that can cripple a network and bother someone else's productivity, but rules need to pushed a little sometimes to keep the head organization on top of their game. If no one tried to use 3G extensively and just stayed in the limits, do you think ATT would care to update their systems?

If a situation seems paradoxical, like allowing Blackberries to tether, but not iPhones, why should I wait and be less productive? Customizing my phone, how does it hurt you?

Multitasking?
Look, I know you may lose a few precious seconds switching apps to respond to a text message, or write up an e-mail while listening to Pandora, but you know what? People who say this are just complacent, and will take whatever is given to them. Instead of trying for a better standard, they just follow the leader. True leaders push for new standards and demand for more through the path of innovation. Steve Jobs is an innovator, and he has great ideas, but other people have ideas as well, and that merging of ideas leads to the best possible product.
 
apple sell the iphone as it sell the macbook pro
hardware+software
every jailbreaker that coming where to complain that apple should let run 3 party software in the iphone, is so stupid as the idea itself , that will never happen.
if jailbreakers doesn´t like the way iphone is built or run .dont buy it , just move along to android or mobile 6.5.
i prefer that my iphone with some of restricions, that is much safer , and runs with less problems, i like it take way
if you bought your iphone and want to jailbreak ,fine ,but dont criticize the way apple is running their business.
like someone said in previous post if you cannot afford $0.99 or $2 in some app , you shouldn´t buy a iphone in first place.

Please excuse me for expressing my opinions. You are right, I should just accept whatever it is apple offers and be grateful I am allowed to purchase their products.
I guess since I enjoy vodka once in a while and that I drive, I must drive drunk. Quite the contrary.
I have pirated apps as a test drive. If the product suits my needs, I purchase it. If not i don't. If developers have so much confidence in their product, then offer a test drive or a refund if the user is not satisifed. One may argue how does the developer know you deleted it? How does the purchaser know they are getting a product that lives up to the description? Having recently lost itunes I am in the process of re-downloading 11 pages of apps from the, you guessed it, Apps Store.

How many trojans are circulating that are associated with jailbreaking. We can discuss all the what ifs in the world and we can all wear aluminum foiled hats but explain what 3.0.1 update was for?

Third party software;
I enjoy the heck out of intelliscreen, irealsms, cyntact, snapture (way before it was in the apps store), pdanet, Yourtube, 3G unrestrictor, backgrounder and Google Voice.
 
It is actually not like that.
If you go and buy an iPhone, it is yours, as all of the other stuff you mentioned as example. But the software running on the phone is not yours, you just have the right to use it within the terms of the EULA.

If it would be truly yours, you could copy redistribute it without limitations.

Just because you bought a DVD does not give you the right to create artwork based on the content of the disk.

Well, as I said, where is the EULA agreement in the iPhone box? I just looked over my iPhone and iPod boxes again and only see one mention of an EULA on my 80GB 5.5G iPod box, and that is in reference to using iTunes.

There was no EULA in the box. There was no EULA presented to me before I made the purchase. When I opened it up and connected it to iTunes and went through the whole activation process, the only time I was presented with an EULA was for AT&T service.

Apple presented me with an EULA for my first iPhone update. But by then money had long since changed hands, service was already passed the point of termination free cancelation. If Apple tries to add an EULA to an already sold product well after it has been sold, they've got another thing coming if they think that will hold up in court. For any sort of contract to be valid, it has to be present prior to money changing hands. And for terms to be changed during the period of the contract, that sort of clause has to be present in the original contract or renegotiated afterwards, with an option to opt out of the contract penalty free. Thats why when cellphone companies raise text messaging rates or other little fees, you have floods of people ending their service ETF free.

As I said, if Apple wants EULA to actually be valid, they have to be presented prior to purchase and be in plain English (or a "plain version" of any language). Because, like I said, if I go buy Snow Leopard right now, I can't get to the EULA until the seal has been broken. By that point, NOBODY, not even Apple, will accept it for return based on the fact that you don't agree with the EULA. If I go buy a Mac right now and don't agree to the terms, I'm stuck with a very hefty restocking fee. Thats just not right. If Apple wants EULA to mean something, then it has to be presented prior to purchase, just like every other contract that has actually been held up in court.

And yes, I do own the DVD. I never said anything about creating work based off of the content on the disc. Everything I mentioned was fair personal use. I specifically mentioned it was not right for me to sell it as my own creation. But I am free to use it however I wish for personal use.

apple sell the iphone as it sell the macbook pro

hardware+software

every jailbreaker that coming where to complain that apple should let run 3 party software in the iphone, is so stupid as the idea itself , that will never happen.

if jailbreakers doesn´t like the way iphone is built or run .dont buy it , just move along to android or mobile 6.5.

i prefer that my iphone with some of restricions, that is much safer , and runs with less problems, i like it take way

if you bought your iphone and want to jailbreak ,fine ,but dont criticize the way apple is running their business.


like someone said in previous post if you cannot afford $0.99 or $2 in some app , you shouldn´t buy a iphone in first place.

No, whats stupid is to assume that people jailbreak just to pirate applications. Jailbreaking is all about customization and using the device how you want to use it.

If you want Apple to spoon feed you ideology on what you should or shouldn't do, then feel free to be fed. But there are obviously millions of people out there who want to use their iPhone that they purchased however they wish and Apple is in no place to tell them they can't.

Your MacBook Pro comparison fails anyway. Because I can go buy a MacBook Pro right now and wipe OS X off of it and use Windows or Linux or one of hundreds of other OSes.

I also want to add one more thing to the EULA nonsense.

If I'm just "licensing" software but own the hardware, then what right does Apple have to block me from installing my own software on the hardware I actually own? If I don't agree with the EULA for OS X (which is not presented pre-sale and is unreturnable after the seal has been broken), I can just install other software on my Mac. So why can't I do that with my iPhone? What gives Apple the right to tell me I can't do that with hardware I purchased?
 
I also want to add one more thing to the EULA nonsense.

If I'm just "licensing" software but own the hardware, then what right does Apple have to block me from installing my own software on the hardware I actually own? If I don't agree with the EULA for OS X (which is not presented pre-sale and is unreturnable after the seal has been broken), I can just install other software on my Mac. So why can't I do that with my iPhone? What gives Apple the right to tell me I can't do that with hardware I purchased?

I will not flame, or try to convince you, but I see things different.
I honestly do not remember where the terms are presented in the beginning (i would guess during activation) but in any case you can find the terms in the Settings.app General>About>Legal

about putting your own software on your device: maybe you know http://www.ipodlinux.org/ they do that for example. It seems Apple does not try to harm them. (just not support them in their activity)
 
Anything which stops/hinders app piracy is ok in my book. :)

I try all my pay apps before I dish out money for them. YES, I download cracked apps and if they're good I buy them...

Getting burned for buying a crappy buggy sub-standard app is not my cup of tea. Flame me all you want, but my point is valid and if the app is good they get my money. Monopoly was the latest I bought. It's great & they did an awesome job with it so they deserve $$ for their work. That said, other developers just suck. They make buggy, crashing garbage apps and expect you to pay & pray they fix w/e is wrong. No thanks.

HOWEVER!
If you jack apps, use them all the time and never give the developer the money they deserve then you're A BUM.
If an app is good PAY THE MAN!

That is all.

EDIT
Perhaps that was a bit harsh. My apologies.
 
There was no EULA in the box. There was no EULA presented to me before I made the purchase. When I opened it up and connected it to iTunes and went through the whole activation process, the only time I was presented with an EULA was for AT&T service.

FYI: I found some analysis of the ATT contract:
http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/453/1
(the interesting part about our discussion is on 4th page)
 
apple sell the iphone as it sell the macbook pro

hardware+software

every jailbreaker that coming where to complain that apple should let run 3 party software in the iphone, is so stupid as the idea itself , that will never happen.

if jailbreakers doesn´t like the way iphone is built or run .dont buy it , just move along to android or mobile 6.5.

i prefer that my iphone with some of restricions, that is much safer , and runs with less problems, i like it take way

if you bought your iphone and want to jailbreak ,fine ,but dont criticize the way apple is running their business.


like someone said in previous post if you cannot afford $0.99 or $2 in some app , you shouldn´t buy a iphone in first place.

Tell you what, if they renew the AT&T exclusivity contract again that's exactly what I'm doing. I will never use AT&T again for ANYTHING so long as I draw breath... So be happy! You won't have to hear my inane ramblings anymore.

Yes, it is like that. The last two items you mentioned above (copying iPhone software and DVDs) are protected implicitly under copyright law, and the poster acknowledged that. Those things have nothing to do with the EULA.

copyright law also allows for fair use which ostensibly includes ripping and re-encoding a purchased item to other media players (like ipods) so long as they are also personally owned.

i know im right... ive tried it and it doesnt work
i provided evidence to support that... you have not

dude, of course it works.... provided the iPhone has already been activated.

uhh
are you serious?
to back up what you are saying....

bah... who needs silly things like facts, or supporting evidence... all americans need is faith! just believe hard enough and that makes it true

very nice... lump us all together as one amorphous blob of unintelligent half witted retreads from Texas who molest their farm animals...

Thanks... Thanks a lot.

Did you stop to consider that you are trusting "pirates and hackers" with your personal information when you jailbreak? I was willing to jailbreak my iPod touch because it did not contain any sensitive information but I would be wary of jailbreaking my iPhone because it will contain some sensitive information that I would not want to risk getting into the wrong hands. How do you know that they did not include a trojan in the jailbreak that collects passwords and other personal information in the "background"?


Just as you're choosing to trust developers in the app store. Developers like Smule who aggregate huge amounts of data on their users for a variety of reasons... and you think "hackers and pirates" are the only threat.
 
Does anyone have any info on whether AT&T stores are clearing out the inventory of instock 3GS before selling the new ones?

I will be getting my 3GS on Monday and now I'm pissed to find out that I may be out of luck...

:( I love my multi-tasking and themes.
 
If Apple wants EULA to mean something, then it has to be presented prior to purchase just like every other contract that has actually been held up in court.

SLAs and EULAs have been held up in court despite the fact that they haven't been presented prior to purchase. That isn't to say that there's no disagreement across jurisdictions. However, it's just plainly false that only contracts that have been presented prior to purchase have been held up in court.

For what it's worth, I happen to think that software sales are just that–sales–despite the language that software creators use in their SLAs. There's some support for that position in the legal system. However, my understanding is that the majority view right now is to uphold SLAs and consider the transaction a license. I don't like it, but that's just the way the law works right now. The upshot is simply that if you jailbreak, you commit copyright infringement–piracy. Do I think it should be that way, nope. Is it that way, yep.

Part of the problem is the inflammatory language "piracy". But, as long as people insist on calling Hackintoshers pirates, I think it's only right to call their jailbreaking brethren by the same name. The fun, of course, is that some confused individuals get caught in a bit of inconsistency. You know, the ones that jailbreak their iPhones but rail against Hackintoshers. The argument that ends with the conclusion that Hackintoshers are pirates catches all jailbreakers with the same net. I'm just insisting that people be consistent.
 
Tell you what, if they renew the AT&T exclusivity contract again that's exactly what I'm doing. I will never use AT&T again for ANYTHING so long as I draw breath... So be happy! You won't have to hear my inane ramblings anymore.

you right? at&t in the us are very expensive.
im using vodafone in europe, and since the 3.0 came out, its possible to use thetering(500mb/month) and skype in background .

but that is a carrier choise, dont blame apple for that.
 
If I'm just "licensing" software but own the hardware, then what right does Apple have to block me from installing my own software on the hardware I actually own? If I don't agree with the EULA for OS X (which is not presented pre-sale and is unreturnable after the seal has been broken), I can just install other software on my Mac. So why can't I do that with my iPhone? What gives Apple the right to tell me I can't do that with hardware I purchased?

Apple have never advertised the ability to install unofficial apps, so are under no obligation to provide that functionality. I wish they would open up the system more; but nothing is forcing Apple to make it possible/easy to install unofficial apps.
 
you right? at&t in the us are very expensive.
im using vodafone in europe, and since the 3.0 came out, its possible to use thetering(500mb/month) and skype in background .

but that is a carrier choise, dont blame apple for that.

I blame Apple for forcing AT&T into my pocketbook. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE my iPhone, but AT&T needs to be burned to the ground and a priest dispatched to bless the ashes.

The product pretty much rocks & it revolutionized the mobile market... HOWEVER, the service (here in the US) is utter crap and Apple is indeed partially responsible for carrier locking.

That said, I envy your choices and features.
 
Nothing says they have to make it easy. In fact, manufacturers are required by federal law to make some things a bit difficult (changing your cell phone radio into a jammer, for instance.

Really? Reference, please.

---

What gets me is that Apple voids a HARDWARE warranty depending on what software you run.

Apple uses almost exactly the same software EULA, and hardware warranty wording, for the iPhone as they do for the Mac. Yet, of course we can use anyone's software on the Mac, whereas Apple claims doing that voids the hardware warranty on the iPhone. Why?

When people first started jailbreaking the iPhone, you could see Jobs was happy that they were paying it that much attention.

That all changed a few months later, when Apple revealed that almost 20% of iPhones were UNLOCKED (much less jailbroken) and thus Apple was losing lots of monthly shares from ATT... uh oh...

Suddenly, Apple made it a _policy_ that jailbreaking voids the HARDWARE warranty, even though the warranty says no such thing. It's a sleazy scare tactic.

Of course, if you don't buy Applecare, then your warranty is over anyway after a year... so jailbreaking makes no difference at that point.

We don't see Samsung or HTC deliberately going after their ROM hackers.
 
a jailbroken iPhone and an iPhone are two completely different things.

My iPhone is jailbroken and it's Boss. Comparatively all of my friends' iPhones are not jailbroken and comparatively, they are POS . No backgrounding? WTF, no rotation inhibitor, WTF.

Apple is trying to stop the iPhone killer, and it's an HTC, its no a Blackberry...
the iPhone killer is a Jailbroken iPhone


Remember that feeling when you switched from your previous phone to the iPhone, that "wow, this is so amazing, I can't imagine living without it" feeling? And how going back to any other phone would just be miserable?

Well, that's how us jailbreakers feel about the JBn iPhone. It drives the iPhone in the dirt almost putting it six feet under.

I used to be one against JBing... with the potential to mess up the iPhone?! NO WAY! Then, after reading the iphone hacks section for weeks I decided to go for it and WOW, what an experience, it's absolutely amazing. What I've gotten from this thread is that there are two extremely different views, that of the JBn community and from the NonJB one. The reason JBers are so adamant about this is because they realize the iPhone's true potential and they realize what Apple is withholding from us. It's really a shame what Apple has done, holding back the potential of such a great device.

I would sincerely advise everyone that hasn't JBn (especially those with a 3Gs) and haven't taken a closer look at it to browse the iPhone Hacks section for a while.. You might (and most likely will) like what you see.

https://forums.macrumors.com/forums/105/

Cheers!
Simgar
 
I am glad,

That apple has done somthing to stop this, I am planing on get an iphone soon, from fidos, I have never jail broke anything what is the dam point of it?
to get 3rd party apps on it, I do not care, all I will care about if I can snyc this iphone with a power mac g4 using usb 1.1
 
My iPhone is jailbroken and it's Boss.

Doesn't seem a bit disturbing how hard jailbreakers are trying and trying to justify their actions, even going into heavy marketing spiels to try to force everybody else to join their choice?

It's as if this jailbreaking was some sort of... brain virus... maybe controlled by a massing botnet trying to take over the iphone owner world. This posters brain has been taken over by his cracked and insecure device (his "Boss[\B]). Who know who or what controls him now??!! How many will get sucked into this growing BORG cube?

Hopefully Apple's improved iPhone security isn't too late to save humanity!
 
Doesn't seem a bit disturbing how hard jailbreakers are trying and trying to justify their actions, even going into heavy marketing spiels to try to force everybody else to join their choice?

Not half as disturbing as people heavily marketing the sheep mentality and apple will save us from all evil.

Personally I couldn't care less, I probably could care less if I really tried, if someone jailbreaks. It's their hard earned money paying the monthly bill for their phone. If the vanilla phone works for someone, great. For me it doesn't work but with the jailbreak such programs like intelliscreen is just another tool to get more out of the phone.
 
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