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Good call, The TV price market has been pushed to its limits. Prices are low and Apple would have had to come up with something pretty inventive to be able to have a price margin that would give them much profit. I wouldn't pay twice as much for a tv only because of an apple logo.

Also I think more and more people want a simple screen of good quality and connect their own smart hub and devices. The integrated OS you get in tvs is quickly getting outdated without the tvs need of an replacement. So focus on the apple tv and ditch the tv seem like a smart choice.
 
Not really surprising; A television is a display/monitor with a tuner and some ports. It would have used an LG or Samsung Panel anyway - might as well by an LG or Samsung smart TV and call it a day.
 
TV sets are a tough competitive business. Apple probably did the right thing sticking with the Apple TV box instead.
 
The jump from SD to HD was huge. Everyone welcomed that. Not only did HD provide more resolution... large flat-panel HD displays finally made it economical to get a huge screen in your living room.

Now everyone has a large HDTV in their living room... but will the extra resolution 4K provides be that important?

I'm not so sure.

Depending on how far you sit from the TV... you might not even see the difference between HD and 4K

And then there's production. Shooting in 4K... editing in 4K... and delivering in 4K are waaay more intensive than HD.

You're right... nobody shoots in SD anymore. But will they all move to 4K? And will it be worth it for all the extra effort they have to do?

We are all thankful that everything has moved to HD... but I'm not sure the move to 4K will follow in similar footsteps.

What matters is PQ and to that end the next big thing really is OLED. LG are right now dominating the market and are making someone if not the best displays ever made. I have been to trade shows and seen 4K up close and it beats the crap out of HD 1080P.

What you get from 4k is more information in a denser space. This allows for a wider colour gamut and a sense of depth that I have only seen replicated in professionally calibrated displays, so I think for the general home consumer market people will find this technology very special. It will genuinely feel like you are looking through a window.

As for viewing distance, the viewer will notice a lot more because with 4k you can stand a few inches away and see a crisp, clear image. Try that with even the best 1080P display and you just get a headache. With a 65" tv you are meant to sit about 8ft away to get the best view distance, with 4K you could half that, genuinely allowing for larger screens to be used in homes.

But the key is OLED as there is no point having amazing resolution if the overall PQ is tarnished by the limitations of the display technology. Plasma is dead and plasma buzz from my Panasonic makes viewing a nightmare. LCD despite years of advancement are only just starting to get near OLED potential but can not match the Black Levels of an OLED display.

As for filming and post editing in 4k, it is quite the opposite actually, film makers have been shooting in technically over 4k for several decades and the hardest part of the post production process was the downsampling to lower resolution from the original film stock. You think Star Wars was filmed at 1080P ? When 4k or even 8k kicks off we will see actually quicker post production turn arounds as there will be no down sampling on the majority of films, so we will get a true representation of the directors works.

As for your point on will everyone move to 4k well the jury is out really, the benefits are there but no company is really promoting the technology and that is because the content is not there. Studios are still catering to a market for 1080P displays as that is where the money is right now. For every person who has a 4k display there are probably 5000 that do not. If not more.

But it is where the future is, if everyone manages to get on board with it, but if you do decide to go the 4K route I seriously recommend OLED is the way to go.
 
I have my doubts about 4K TV taking off, let alone a high priced Apple version. 4K has been out for a while and I don't know anyone that owns one or even talking about getting one. Will this go the way of 3D television?

Unlike digital TV, 4K and 3D before it is being forced by electronics companies. This is why they are so slow to catch on and may never become common place.

We got digital TV because the FCC mandated it. That meant everyone had to upgrade their networks and TV companies had to start building TVs that receive digital broadcasts.

Right now there is absolutely no reason to buy a 4K TV if you have a decent 1080p TV. None of the major networks are broadcasting 4K. And when it comes to TV all that matters is content.
 
Unlike digital TV, 4K and 3D before it is being forced by electronics companies. This is why they are so slow to catch on and may never become common place.

We got digital TV because the FCC mandated it. That meant everyone had to upgrade their networks and TV companies had to start building TVs that receive digital broadcasts.

Right now there is absolutely no reason to buy a 4K TV if you have a decent 1080p TV. None of the major networks are broadcasting 4K. And when it comes to TV all that matters is content.

Hit the nail on the head. The most use 4K is getting right now is on a few youtube videos with almost all on Tech channels. It's a gimmick at this point really, as 99% of monitors don't even have 4K+ resolution to begin with let alone TVs.
 
I have my doubts about 4K TV taking off, let alone a high priced Apple version. 4K has been out for a while and I don't know anyone that owns one or even talking about getting one. Will this go the way of 3D television?

I own a 4k TV and watch a lot of shows in 4k on Netflix. It is amazing. Daredevil, Breaking Bad, Marco Polo, House of Cards.

There is not a lot of content yet, but the amount is increasing rapidly and is truly of high quality.

----------

Hit the nail on the head. The most use 4K is getting right now is on a few youtube videos with almost all on Tech channels. It's a gimmick at this point really, as 99% of monitors don't even have 4K+ resolution to begin with let alone TVs.

Nonsense. See above. New Samsung TVs (market leader) are almost all 4k and coming down rapidly in price.
 
I own a 4k TV and watch a lot of shows in 4k on Netflix. It is amazing. Daredevil, Breaking Bad, Marco Polo, House of Cards.

There is not a lot of content yet, but the amount is increasing rapidly and is truly of high quality.

----------



Nonsense. See above. New Samsung TVs (market leader) are almost all 4k and coming down rapidly in price.

Not nonsense. Until TV networks and studios start broadcasting 4K, it will be a fad. You like most here are techies. We seek out the latest and greatest. The general public is not like us. There is really no reason for Joe Q. Public to upgrade from his current TV today.
 
I have a hard time believing Apple ever seriously came close to making an actual TV. Sure they researched it, but an Apple TV device that works with virtually any TV make tons more sense.

And Carl "Icahn suggested Apple will dominate both the television and automobile markets, introducing 55 and 65-inch television sets in 2016 and a car in 2020." Hah, this proves the guy is absolutely clueless in this regard. There is very little Apple can add, features wise, to make a competitive TV with the high profit margin Apple demands. And Apple would be crazy to introduce an actual automobile, as opposed to licensing features, such as CarPlay, to other automakers. The minute Apple introduces a car and officially becomes a car company is the minute the majority of other automakers stop working with them. For a company like Apple, it makes absolutely no business sense.
 
I own a 4k TV and watch a lot of shows in 4k on Netflix. It is amazing. Daredevil, Breaking Bad, Marco Polo, House of Cards.

There is not a lot of content yet, but the amount is increasing rapidly and is truly of high quality.

----------



Nonsense. See above. New Samsung TVs (market leader) are almost all 4k and coming down rapidly in price.

Right... What is your set (Almost 100% of current low end consumer panels are plain horrible as TV's in all metrics)... What size is it and what distance to you look at this set (Are does it "not matter" (sic)). You realize internet content is compressed out of its mind compared to native content and your not getting close to the best quality/resolution out of it.

So, despite all of this. You think it is supposedly "all worth it"?

The only place 4K makes sense right now is for big high end TVs watching native content and desktop monitors.

For native content, on high end TVs it makes sense if you optimally have your head at :
5 feet (50 inch), couch about 3.5 feet from TV
5.5 (60 inch), couch about 4 feet from TV
6 feet (65 inch), couch at 4.5 feet from TV
7 feet (75 inch), couch at 5.5 feet from TV
You can sit slightly close than that, but then you don't see the whole screen without turning your head. Notice that few people put their sofa that close to their TVs.
http://www.rtings.com/info/television-size-to-distance-relationship
 
What matters is PQ and to that end the next big thing really is OLED. LG are right now dominating the market and are making someone if not the best displays ever made. I have been to trade shows and seen 4K up close and it beats the crap out of HD 1080P.

What you get from 4k is more information in a denser space. This allows for a wider colour gamut and a sense of depth that I have only seen replicated in professionally calibrated displays, so I think for the general home consumer market people will find this technology very special. It will genuinely feel like you are looking through a window.

As for viewing distance, the viewer will notice a lot more because with 4k you can stand a few inches away and see a crisp, clear image. Try that with even the best 1080P display and you just get a headache. With a 65" tv you are meant to sit about 8ft away to get the best view distance, with 4K you could half that, genuinely allowing for larger screens to be used in homes.

But the key is OLED as there is no point having amazing resolution if the overall PQ is tarnished by the limitations of the display technology. Plasma is dead and plasma buzz from my Panasonic makes viewing a nightmare. LCD despite years of advancement are only just starting to get near OLED potential but can not match the Black Levels of an OLED display.

As for filming and post editing in 4k, it is quite the opposite actually, film makers have been shooting in technically over 4k for several decades and the hardest part of the post production process was the downsampling to lower resolution from the original film stock. You think Star Wars was filmed at 1080P ? When 4k or even 8k kicks off we will see actually quicker post production turn arounds as there will be no down sampling on the majority of films, so we will get a true representation of the directors works.

As for your point on will everyone move to 4k well the jury is out really, the benefits are there but no company is really promoting the technology and that is because the content is not there. Studios are still catering to a market for 1080P displays as that is where the money is right now. For every person who has a 4k display there are probably 5000 that do not. If not more.

But it is where the future is, if everyone manages to get on board with it, but if you do decide to go the 4K route I seriously recommend OLED is the way to go.

I agree with many of the things you said.

OLED is beautiful... but I wasn't talking about the display technology. I was leaning more towards the content.

You need a lot of bandwidth to deliver 4K... and our pipes aren't getting bigger. So can you imagine how compressed 4K is gonna have to be in order to broadcast or stream to your home?

HD is already too compressed most of the time. And our internet speeds and other infrastructure probably won't get better over the next 10 years.

I'd personally take high-bitrate HD instead of overcompressed 4K

Yes... Hollywood has been shooting in 4K for years. Gone Girl was shot and finished in 6K. But I don't think the downsampling is a big a problem as you say it is.

It's the manipulation, color and effects work of 4K and 6K that's the bigger problem. You're dealing with incredible amounts of data. And that's fine for a Hollywood movie.

But I was more talking about television programming. I joked earlier about Dr. Phil... but there are hundreds of programs on TV. News shows, game shows, sitcoms, etc. Will all those shoot, edit and archive in 4K? And will they even be able to get it to your home?

And if they do... will it be so compressed that it looks like garbage?

I understand the theory that "we made the transition from SD to HD.... so HD to 4K must be inevitable"

But there are a lot of additional hurdles in the way this time.

.
 
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As much as I wanted Apple to release their own television set, it doesn't surprise me that they're not doing it. With iPod, people tossed out their old portable CD players. With iPhone, people tossed out their old flip phones. With iPad, many casual PC users stopped using their PC's. With an Apple-branded television, there just wouldn't be enough of a difference for people to toss out their current television sets. Technology for television just hasn't progressed in such a way that's going to allow something truly unique to come along.

We've had ******** claims of innovation. 3D TV's flopped hard. 3D isn't for everybody and a lot of people don't want to have to buy additional headgear to watch TV. Those nice looking curved TV's the Samsung and LG introduced would look great on a movie set but they really don't do much. You really aren't getting the IMax experience at home. 4K is fine but it's nothing revolutionary. It's to be expected if anything. Also, 4K has a limited market. That resolution doesn't do much unless you're watching it on televisions that are 60" and bigger.

Maybe in a few years, some technology will come along that Apple or somebody else will advantage of.
 
Tv sucks AppleTV rocks.

People stoping watch tv, as it is full of crap and advertisements. :apple:TV with netflix is more than enough. But yet I have a projector in basement and that makes it very quality cinema to watch all those flicks.
 
And ABC still broadcasts in 720p :)

They do, as does FOX, but 720p60 and 1080i60 are pretty much a wash in terms of perceivable image quality while in motion (921,600 pixels every 1/60th of a second vs 1,036,800 pixels every 1/60th of a second, respectively). Progressive images can scale up cleaner though so the 720p60 image would probably look better on a 4K display than the 1080i60 image.

Youtube might have flipped a switch and started offering 4K streaming... but people's internet connections haven't evolved that fast.

New compression schemes will help some... but still require more bandwidth.

4K is certainly pushing boundaries of what's viable on a consumer level today, but so was HD back in 2000. I remember when HDNET first came around in 2001 or 2002 and they didn't even have 24hrs of HD content to air. They showed the same programing over and over again including hours of wildlife footage that was basically an HD tech demo.


Maybe when 4K is a standard feature on every TV... adoption will increase. It's difficult to even find an SD TV anymore.

They stopped making SD TVs right about the time TV broadcasts switched from analog to digital, and most Americans would be in the market for a new TV (or a converter box). Coincidence...?;)

So in 10 years will every TV sold be 4K and will HD become hard to find?

I don't think it will take as long as 10 years. Just look at how much has changed since 2005. Sooner rather than later a good quality 4K TV will only cost a little more than a good quality HDTV so if you are in the market for a new TV at that point why *not* get a 4K TV? Same deal for cameras. In a few years only 'budget' level consumer cameras/cell phones/tablets will be HD only.


There is a definite workflow change though.

Not really. Whether you shot SD, HD or 4K the workflow remains basically the same. 3D, on the other hand, requires specialized hardware and/or software during production and post production as well as 3D glasses for viewing.

You said yourself that people probably won't notice the difference... so why even do it?

Money.

Samsung wants to sell you a new TV, Apple wants to sell you a new phone, Canon wants to sell you a new camera, etc.,. What better way to do that than to roll out some new, easy to market tech that their marketing departments say you can't live without? On the consumer side people like buying new stuff, and bragging to their neighbors about their new stuff, and then the neighbors are more incentivized to buy new stuff themselves. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.



Right now there is absolutely no reason to buy a 4K TV if you have a decent 1080p TV. None of the major networks are broadcasting 4K. And when it comes to TV all that matters is content.

I don't think any of the OTA broadcasts will be 4k in the foreseeable future (if ever). Like you mentioned, the government mandate to go to digital broadcasting really opened the door for HD since it forced broadcasters to replace all of their equipment. 4k broadcasting would require the same thing (as well as new TVs or converter boxes for consumers) which is why I doubt it will happen.

4k streaming is significantly easier and cheaper to roll out than 4k OTA broadcasts.


Hit the nail on the head. The most use 4K is getting right now is on a few youtube videos with almost all on Tech channels. It's a gimmick at this point really, as 99% of monitors don't even have 4K+ resolution to begin with let alone TVs.

Amazon, Netflix and Sony are already streaming 4K movies and TV shows. Time Warner has already done testing with UHD and Comcast said it will release a UHD cable box later this year.
 
Not nonsense. Until TV networks and studios start broadcasting 4K, it will be a fad. You like most here are techies. We seek out the latest and greatest. The general public is not like us. There is really no reason for Joe Q. Public to upgrade from his current TV today.

Fully agree. You won't believe how much content is still produced in SD here in the Netherlands.. even shows like The Voice is still in SD. Why ? Because the producers think that the audience will watch anyways, depsite how crappy it looks.

My eyes already hurt watching upscaled SD on a 1080p screen, don't even want to think about watching crappy SD on a 4K monitor/screen.
 
Selling a giant screen is the opposite direction of where Apple is headed. Mobile and easy to carry with you (or drive it in the future) is what they are doing. Lets not underestimate the factor of "being seen" with your new gadget either. No one is going to see your Apple TV set unless you invite them over. Contrast that with your iPhone, Watch, iPad and Macbook. Yes millions of people have these products, but they're still status symbols and inexpensive ones at that compared to luxury cars, jewelry and designer clothing.
 

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How will they solve the 'table top full of remotes' problem now?

Maybe they're working on a remote that will turn on your TV set along with the Apple TV. A kind of auto tuning universal remote.
 
TV is crap, there's no use in trying to fix it. It's not like the cellphone, the music player, or the computer, which were all great things but were fiddly and annoying to use and Apple tried to make them better and more useful. The TV is not "great but annoying to use", it's crap and annoying to use, it's on its way out, it's had its prime time, it's too late to try to make it better.

To me it's just nice to have a big screen so I can watch movies on that I can play from my computer. And the Apple TV or the HDMI port on the rMBP makes it possible to connect your computer to the TV and use it as a second screen so that's about all the innovation it needs.
 
Apple shelved plans to introduce a full-blown television set more than a year ago reports The Wall Street Journal, citing sources with knowledge of Apple's plans.

Why do news oracles (not just MR) include phrases like this?

Surely it's obvious that the WSJ believes it has one or more sources "with" such knowledge? If not, there wouldn't be a report.
 
Why do news oracles (not just MR) include phrases like this?

Surely it's obvious that the WSJ believes it has one or more sources "with" such knowledge? If not, there wouldn't be a report.

Its quite obvious that Apple had no plans to produce a TV set and additionally they won't be producing a car. So said a source with NO knowledge of Apples plans to me the other day.

:D
 
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