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I bought an iPhone X (6s plus). I want to be compensated! Apple could give 100,000,000 buyers $100, still only $10 Billion. Couch cushion change for Apple.....:rolleyes::D

Seriously though, I was having a bunch of issues with my iPhone toward the end. Battery was one of them......
 
I can agree with you to a certain point. HOWEVER, as someone who was pretty much forced into paying monthly payments for my phone,it is not fair. I didn’t have nearly $1,000.00 at the time to pay out right and was told my only option was to pay month to month. So here I am paying nearly $30 a month for a phone I haven’t had 2 years yet and still have almost 7 months of monthly payments to go. If they can’t make the phones to last on purpose, then why force people to pay such a high amount for something that won’t last more than 2 years? Should the phone companies be sued instead? Who takes responsibility for this? I am not buying a new phone just to get stuck paying yet another $1000.00. If I pay that much I expect it to last a very long time. Remember when you used to be able to walk into Best Buy or Verizon and get a iPhone or Android for $199?

Apple is not the only phone manufacturer out there. You still can walk into Best Buy or Verizon and get lots of good Android phones for around $200..$300. You don't have to confine yourself to a $1000 iPhone (well of course you did for now, but after your monthly payments are over ;))
 
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Now to think of the timing...
6 came out around the time the 2-year contract was being replaced by monthly device payment plan, so perhaps apple was thinking "well, phone doesn't have to last 2 years anymore, lets totally cheap out on battery!"
 
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Well as expected, you are mixing things. The technology you are talking about is related to the status of the battery. Which means that if the battery is below a certain threshold, the device slows down to reduce drain. So even a new battery at 5 percent charge, the device slows down. On the flipside, a device with an older battery that say 80 percent charged, does not get slowed down.

What you describe is the ideal, theoretical scenario which unfortunately not how it works in reality. If the battery is sufficiently deteriorated, it is not able to maintain its original current and/or voltage levels — no matter whether it charged or not. An old battery, even if fully charged, might only provide power at a level of a new battery that has been almost depleted. In both cases, the power delivery is not up to its design specifications. And if you are running on battery, and your CPU is attempting to boost, the result will be a crash with potential data loss.

Again, I don't know how this safety power throttling works in practice — there could be some driver-assisted feedback from the battery controller or maybe the CPU's power management is automatically limiting consumed power to safe levels. Regardless, the practical consequence is that laptops artificially limit their power draw if the power system can't provide enough juice, as is the case with an old, damaged or otherwise problematic battery — no matter whether its fully charged, at 80% or not charged at all.


Apple's disasterous approach does not look at the current charge of the battery, instead it looks at how many cycles are left (aka how old is the battery) and slows down the device accordingly regardless of how charged the battery is. Your iphone could be plugged in and still it will be slowed down.

And how do you know that this is what they do? It would make much more sense for them to monitor actual power output and not speculate on cycle count (which is very individual and can vary greatly from battery to battery).
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There were a few posted in this forum I believe.

If so, that is a total disgrace on Apple's service side, and Apple should most surely be held accountable. Not for throttling the phone, but for misinforming the customers in question.
 
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I just picked up my first Android phone, a Pixel 2 XL. It took about three hors to figure the phone out.
Fast, smooth, powerful, and unconstrained. I have complete access to the file system and an unlocked boot loader.

At first I simply resigned myself to having an inferior phone (which beats being screwed by Apple) gritted my teeth, and bought it.

I sacrificed NOTHING - and gained much. The Pixel is a superior machine to a iPhoneX with a huge battery and amazing battery life.

Other Android phones may be as good but I have no personal experience. The Pixel was purchased on the basis of having the purest version of Android 8 and the fastest updates.

Wholeheartedly recommended.

A month ago I would have chewed glass before saying that or buying an Android.

Now, I need to toddle along and see what MickeySoft has accomplished in the past 18 years. My Mac Pro 2012 is in for a personality transplant.
 
Didn’t used to happen. They skimped on battery quality from iPhone 6 up.
They use the same batteries as everybody else. What is different are more high-performances CPUs which require every bit of power the battery can provide to perform at optimum. The issues as described by Apple and other places like iMore is that at times of high load, the CPU will slow down temporarily, i.e. be throttled, to avoid shutdowns associated with the aged battery being unable to provide peak power anymore. When the load goes down, the CPU goes back to normal. That is a completely reasonable solution to a problem. The problem is that they didn't mention that in the release notes, and so people assume the worst intents. Paranoia has it's day.

As an iPhone 6s user who saw some battery issues, including 2 sudden shutdowns as the battery seemed to drain suddenly, I am glad they provided a fix which made my phone stable and useful again; the alternative would have been that I would have had to get a new 2ndhand phone, or simply replaced the battery. This way, my phone's useful life is extended. Sometime this year, perhaps in a few months, I will take advantage of the battery offer. There is no rush for me, and no point swapping batteries that still work fine, even if not at optimum.
My wife is on an iPhone 5, it is getting long in the tooth (it's from 2012), and she'd like a better camera. So I'm gonna find a 2ndhand 6s off eBay, and at some point will get its battery replaced too if it needs it. Seriously, what Android phone would last you with full OS and software support for 5 years? With a Google phone, like a Nexus or Pixel, a maximum of 2 years; with any other Android phone, like Samsung, a year if you're lucky, with months between the release of critical security updates from Google until it reaches your phone with all the vendor tweaks. That is planned obsolescence, as without OS updates, it leaves you exposed to malware like Stagefright.
 
I just picked up my first Android phone, a Pixel 2 XL. It took about three hors to figure the phone out.
Fast, smooth, powerful, and unconstrained.

Well, at least you can be at easy regarding the benchmark differences, since Pixel 2 is slower than a throttled iPhone X would be ;)

Joking of course. Glad for you that you found a phone you are satisfied with.
 
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Well, at least you can be at easy regarding the benchmark differences, since Pixel 2 is slower than a throttled iPhone X would be ;)

Joking of course. Glad for you that you found a phone you are satisfied with.

I am completely shocked at how good the experience is. I was expecting second rate software. Nope, Apple has nothing on Google when it comes to high performance - and hopefully, lasting performance.

I expected to feel sad leaving 18 years of Apple in my dust.

I grieved for a full ten minutes as my new phone booted. Now I feel like a man who has escaped an abusive marriage to a expensive, crooked and demanding b*tch.

We don't need Apple; Apple needs us. They need to be reminded of that.

Edit : The Google Assistant makes Siri seem like a child's toy. It is quite useful and a far more advanced AI. Again, I had seriously underestimated Google's technology.
 
I am completely shocked at how good the experience is. I was expecting second rate software. Nope, Apple has nothing on Google when it comes to high performance - and hopefully, lasting performance.

Its true, Android has matured a lot over the last few years. I still prefer my X (I simply like the logics of the interface more), but I could totally see myself using a phone like Pixel.

Edit : The Google Assistant makes Siri seem like a child's toy. It is quite useful and a far more advanced AI. Again, I had seriously underestimated Google's technology.

Google has much more data at its disposal to train these things properly, so thats an undeniable advantage for them. Also, they are less concerned with user privacy than Apple, which also gives one a boost for AI training.
 
blah, blah, blah ...
What people are missing on all this, is the discovery process that these suits will bring about.

And that is what Apple fears:
  1. What skeletons are hidden by insiders on emails exchanged?
  2. What decisions were forced upon engineering, if any, led by Apple accountants, and signed by senior management and the large cadre of Apple lawyers?
  3. ...
This is what sunk General Motors (startup switch), VW Group (emissions), Tanaka (humidity effects on explosive safety bags).

Yeah. These examples are extreme shenanigans -- life threatening.
Not on the level of batteries that apparently degrade much earlier than their product lifecycle.

But, remember, discovery may lead to email chains that:
  1. made engineering downgrade battery power, over other higher battery alternatives, and save few pennies.
  2. management, upon facing reports of sudden shutdowns due to these batteries, told engineering to enable power-starving modes on new IOS releases, and hide the effects of earlier, ill-advised, battery decisions.
  3. and, then, compounded the problem, by hiding the under-powered batteries with a battery replacement program, offered with a reduced fee -- while replacing old with the same, but just new.
And that is what Apple fears the most -- that skeletons in the closet, in the form of email chains, will tarnish the Apple shine forever.
 
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I agree that Apple deserves this too. Lawsuits will likely fail but at least Apple will get some sort of message.

I still believe that the initial driving motive for the throttling software was to reduce financial impact of warranty replacements and stop a recall. Apple had also released their famed battery-hump case for the 6S...hmmm, a connection?
Whether the truth will come out, who knows.
 
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Wow Honigman, so intelligent. People have suspected Apple of slowing down devices years before iOS 10.2.1, and those suspicions have never been confirmed. So no, Apple's recent admission of the 10.2.1 slowdown doesn't confirm the long-held suspicion that Apple slows down older devices; only the recent suspicion that iOS 10.2.1 slows down some devices. Secondly, Apple admitting to slowing down devices due to a degraded battery doesn't automatically confirm an intention to encourage users to buy a new phone.

An absolute load of drivel. But hey, I shouldn't be surprised when this argument is coming from someone who started a lawsuit expecting compensation/free batteries/free devices because their degraded phone got a little slow, as if magical non-degrading battery technology exists and Apple just refuses to use it.

Glad to see at least one other rational person here.
 
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My ipad mini (1st gen) became so slow, to the point of been unusable after a software update. It is still in a good physical shape, but just unusable.

This was a few years ago and I suspected back then that Apple was slowing down their iOS devices to stimulate people to buy new ones... the only thing they stimulated me to do is NOT to buy any other iPad ever again. I am sticking to it.
 
Glad to see at least one other rational person here.

Sorry dude, buy you cannot make a claim to be rational, as you cannot countenance that today's Apple, led by an accountant, could be driven by cost cutting at the edges.

My unproven view:
It is more likely than not that the batteries on the i6-series phones may have been engineered improperly, resulting on an underpowered supply that cannot drive the phone throughout most of its lifecycle, while degrading early on this cycle (one year) due to the instantaneous power demands imposed by the A8 processor.

I cannot say if this is factual -- but neither can you claim it as irrational.

Only a discovery process, forced by the lawsuits in place, may find out.

And, then, only then, we may discover "what is true, or what is Memorex."
 
Im surprised people don't sue for them putting smaller batteries in newer phones, IE the iPhone 7 Plus Vs iPhone 8 plus.

I'm surprised people don't sue you for recommending that people sue Apple.
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This is good if Apple gets the message that a lot of people don't want thin at the expense of battery life, reliability, and promised performance. Or if some people do, then make it obvious or user selectable, at least don't make the decision for us without telling us.

Maybe the best way is for you and others to stop buying Apple products. How else would they get the message? Yet they continue to be rewarded for doing exactly those things for which you say consumers need to "send a message". I think the message to Apple is loud and clear: Keep doing what you're doing.
 
The VW scandal isn’t comparable to what Apple did.
A better comparison would be to what Samsung and HTC have done— which was to cripple their phones *all the time* and only allow full performance when running benchmarks.

https://www.xda-developers.com/benchmark-cheating-strikes-back-how-oneplus-and-others-got-caught-red-handed-and-what-theyve-done-about-it/amp/

They cheat the battery issues by never allowing their SoC’s to run at full performance anyway, except when they detect a benchmark is being run.

THAT is a scandal if that’s what you’re looking for.

Or worse for the customer?

Imagine if what VW did was to reduce the performance of the car, in such a way it became very noticeable to the driver/customer.
When you, the customer went to the VW store to ask as sales rep, if there was anything VW had done to reduce the performance of the car they denied it totally.
So you decided you would sell your car, and pay out for a brand new one.

Later you found out VW then admitted they had slowed your old car down, and you only needed a mechanic to replace something to bring your old car back up to the performance you remembered.

How would you feel about that, as that's what Apple did.
 
Abazigal, I read your racer/tires analogy on the first post above. We are of the same minds on that post. With an important exception:

I will give you a more apropos example, as this happened to me:

I purchased a Volvo for my wife, to maximize her safety on the road. Then Volvo was made in Sweden, so the Nordic engineering reputation blinded me. This Volvo, top-of-the-line then, had a seriously under-powered alternator that could not keep up with the load imposed by the electronics and ignition systems, while running at night and in the cold, and maintain charge of the battery at the same time. Long story short, the battery went dead within one year and left my wife stranded in a winter night. As the battery was a consumable, Volvo and its dealer refused my claim of replacement and repair of the root-cause: the alternator. I sold the Volvo immediately, and never again bought a Volvo.​

This is the analogy I drive towards:

The battery of the i6-series is under-powered in support of the A8 instantaneous demands -- in the short to medium term -- a term much shorter than a reasonable lifecycle of such phone (three to four years).

The exact analogy of the Volvo alternator., above.​

This is what I believe without proof.

Hopefully we will be able to learn from a discovery process due to these lawsuits, a discovery which digs into the emails of those in the know.

Maybe, or maybe not.
 
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This is the analogy I drive towards:

The battery of the i6-series is under-powered in support of the A8 instantaneous demands -- in the short to medium term -- a term much shorter than a reasonable lifecycle of such phone (three to four years).

The exact analogy of the Volvo alternator., above.​

This is what I believe without proof.

Hopefully we will be able to learn from a discovery process due to these lawsuits, a discovery which digs into the emails of those in the know.

Maybe, or maybe not.

As someone with a rather technical background and lots of hands on with Lithium Batteries, also hobby related, i agree: the battery’s capacity is small. Too small to sustain with the power demands in the long run when the battery gets older. A battery of a nearly 900 - 1000 USD device (in most countries, outside the USA anyway) should be able to cope with the loads at least 2-3 years without problems.

And here is the thing: Apple has experience in designing mobile devices for more than a decade. Lithium Battery technology is not exactly new either. In literally every thread the Apple defense force here on MR would like you to believe that Apple has the best designers, the smartest managers, have the best experience for the customers in mind, etc.

So I want to ask: with the long experience in designing mobile electronic gadgets, inclusive lithium batteries, the world class designers can’t foresee how rather quickly the batteries will degrade - and therefore not being able to cope with the load demands?

We have been conditioned by Apple’s marketing that a device has to be thinner. Thin is hip, thin is a statement of a smart, clever and modern design. But of course, we all know that thin devices will have some compromises. Like for instance a rather small battery and we somehow accept it. We even joke sometimes about Jony Ive’s One-Trick-Pony approach to design. Only thin matters. We accept the compromises.

Now I throw you a curve ball: what if all the marketing emphasis on Thin Devices is nothing more than a deflection? What if the primary goal of a the late iPhones (under TC) was not designing a thin device in the first place, but rather a device with will degrade in a way that users have to upgrade after a (shorter than necessary) time in oder to keep the main income of Apple steady?

Engineers running parameters and conclude, a 2700 mAh battery (just an example) will be ok for 18 months and then degrade. TC gives his thumb up and tells Jony Ivy to dress it a up in a tight package. Schiller walks onto the stage: with 7 mm the device is 1 mm thinner than the previous generation. #Wow#. Discussions on MRs. Some people are afraid that device might be compromised because of its thinness - other posters point out, that the majority of customers prefer a thin design because bulkiness won’t sell (of course the same posters would have defended Apple, if they had launched an 8 mm device and critics would have demanded a 9 mm phone). And all the discussions deflect from the main aspect of the design: a design of planned obsolescence.

I know, my post won’t be liked by some. But that is how I see it. Battery diagnostic info removed from iOS. Check. Device throttles, because battery degrades after a while. Check. Customers complain to the Geniuses about a slow device? Genius tells customer, battery is fine. Check. Genius recommends to buy a new phone because it’s getting long in the tooth. Check.

Another curve ball: why is/was there no simple notification to the user, that the battery condition is bad instead of throttling? It would be so much easier to implement software wise!?

Hint: the normal customer would then ask for a replacement battery. And probably not ending up with a new phone. Probably Apple would even have to dish out batteries for free, due to warrenty claims.

To me it all falls in line with the glued soldered parts among various, if not all products. With the fact that Apples hires tons of lawyers to construct a company framework in order to avoid tax payments around the world. Not investing money into money into upgrading products which are only generating a relatively small portion of the over all profit (“ah, don’t bother upgrading a Mac Mini or a Mac Pro, it’s only a mere dent in our profit charts” - in reality to swap a few components like a new processor or graphic card would take a reasonable competent design team not a long time. After all, Apples uses standard PC processors from Intel - not Skynet). Letting legacy software rot or die, despite having almost a trillion of USD in off shore accounts around the world.

It’s all about the bottom line. Believe otherwise, if you wish.

29 USD for a battery replacement. LOL. Even with that Apple will have some profits. For the hardcore Apple defenders here, who want me to provide some numbers. No! I won’t give you any sources or links. Google and do some research of you dare. Hint: a ~3000 mAh Lithium battery can be purchased by anyone for about 4 USD.
 
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Now I throw you a curve ball: what if all the marketing emphasis on Thin Devices is nothing more than a deflection? What if the primary goal of a the late iPhones (under TC) was not designing a thin device in the first place, but rather a device with will degrade in a way that users have to upgrade after a (shorter than necessary) time in oder to keep the main income of Apple steady?

I won't say your theory is impossible, but I do feel it is unlikely that Apple needs to resort to such trickery in order to sell iPhones. It wasn't until recently that people started holding on to phones longer. Prior to that, most people upgraded their phones like clockwork every two years once their mobile contracts were up anyways.

That said, you do raise a valid point. It is possible that apple engineered their phones with a 2-year optimum period in mind, with the assumption that users would upgrade their older phones 2 years later. The aim was never to force them to upgrade, because again, the assumption is that they would automatically upgrade anyways.

What I am interested in seeing is how this growing trend of users holding on to their iPhones for longer than 2 years will inform Apple's design choices moving forward. I just don't see them making batteries user-swappable anytime soon, nor do I think it's good PR to expect consumers to show up at an Apple store once a year to have their batteries replaced, much less expect them to pay for it, however little. Apple will likely double down on better power management techniques, including developing their own power management chips, and including larger capacity batteries, to address the issue of older iPhone batteries loosing their effectiveness. We are already seeing this in the iphone X, and the rumoured X+ will probably have an even larger battery than what is in the 8+. These should go a long way towards managing the impact of throttling on older iPhones.
 
You say this as if it's always been a reality of iPhone ownership. It hasn't been. For some reason around the time the iPhone 6 arrived Apple suddenly seemed to have issues and concerns about battery degradation. What exactly caused this is unclear, but I'd love to get the answers one day.

Did they start using cheaper batteries? Did they realize they shipped a lot of faulty batteries, and instead of owning up to it they tried to fix it via software?

First I really couldn’t understand why slow down of iPhone with iOS updates led to apology with low cost battery replacement. But what you said was exactly what I think happened also. And that’s why Apple just offered $29 battery replacements to everyone with iPhone 6 & up.
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My 6 is noticeably slower than it used to be when running on battery power. When connected to power, it seems normal. That leads me to believe it is looking at battery health and not slowing down due to software itself.

Is it ok for us to have slow iPhone when it’s not being attached to cable as long as it doesn’t shut down? Or do we have a right to own a phone that doesn’t shut down and as fast as it used to be? Leave it up to us whether or not to allow throttling and at what degrading point of my battery to allow throttling.

Again, I paid $1000 for 6s plus to own it, not to lease it from Apple.
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They use the same batteries as everybody else. What is different are more high-performances CPUs which require every bit of power the battery can provide to perform at optimum. The issues as described by Apple and other places like iMore is that at times of high load, the CPU will slow down temporarily, i.e. be throttled, to avoid shutdowns associated with the aged battery being unable to provide peak power anymore. When the load goes down, the CPU goes back to normal. That is a completely reasonable solution to a problem. The problem is that they didn't mention that in the release notes, and so people assume the worst intents. Paranoia has it's day.

Can you please tell me at what point a battery is considered aged?
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We don't need Apple; Apple needs us. They need to be reminded of that.

This is so true.
 
Now I throw you a curve ball: what if all the marketing emphasis on Thin Devices is nothing more than a deflection? What if the primary goal of a the late iPhones (under TC) was not designing a thin device in the first place, but rather a device with will degrade in a way that users have to upgrade after a (shorter than necessary) time in oder to keep the main income of Apple steady?

That doesn't make any sense strategically due to the fact Apple customers could get their EOL batteries replaced. Doesn't matter if it's $79 or $29...that cost is not a barrier to someone who would rather not buy a new phone. IMO, that dynamic is EXACTLY why Apple was willing to drop the price to $29: they already know that the battery health or performance isn't really a significant driver of sales.
 
Didn’t used to happen. They skimped on battery quality from iPhone 6 up.

You know this comment has zero substance. Batteries have always degraded over time. The difference is the processors have gotten so powerful that the battery technology has not kept up. The demand for faster phones so you can brag about how fast your phone can open candy crush is what is causing this to happen. I want to sue Samsung, because every time I bought one of their phones, it caused me to buy a new iPhone 3 months later when it slows down due to being an absolute piece of crap.
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First I really couldn’t understand why slow down of iPhone with iOS updates led to apology with low cost battery replacement. But what you said was exactly what I think happened also. And that’s why Apple just offered $29 battery replacements to everyone with iPhone 6 & up.
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The issue is due to the speed of the processors. Must have the fastest benchmarks.... well you need power for those processors!
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Sadly Apple deserved this. They should have used higher quality parts to ensure that the device works at least two years in a sufficient way.

The device is under warranty for two years. Which means if you noticed your phone slowing down, all you had to do was go to Apple and get a new battery for free. All those people standing in line to buy a new iPhone year after year didn’t do so because their phone was slow, they did it because they wanted the newest shinny thing in the window. If their phones were slowing down they wouldn’t be turning over $600+ every year without hesitation.
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You are just playing on a confusion on words.

The slowdown due to battery degradation did happen. I don't even remember Apple denying it.

What didn't happen is the conspiracy theory behind it that all this time it was Apple intention to do "planned obsolescence" so you buy more new phones. In fact, the official and reasonable explanation is that on the contrary it extended the usable life of older phone (because intermittent shutdowns is worse than throttling.), which is the opposite of the theory.

When I say "It didn't happen", it's the conspiracy theory, not the battery throttling.

I couldn’t agree more. A phone that shuts down will more likely be replaced with a new one over one that still works. 99% of the people that own iPhones don’t use it for more than texting and playing candy crush or looking at facebook. The people on this board are the minority. And let’s face it, if someone showed up with an old iPhone that shut down, chances are when the store employee told them it would be $79 for a new battery, most will go (damn, I can get a new iPhone for $15/mth through T-Mobile). So yeah, this fix likely cost them sales.
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Apple is 100% guilty. The reason I upgraded to the iPhone 7 was because my 6s slowed down so dramatically, and the battery wouldn’t even last me all day at work, after the 10.2.1 downgrade.

Than you are an idiot for not getting your phone checked under warranty. That’s like buying a 2017 car because you 2016 model with 5000 miles on it is suddenly spinning out when you hit the gas, and all you needed was new tires. And your tires had a 30000 mile warranty.
 
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You know this comment has zero substance. Batteries have always degraded over time. The difference is the processors have gotten so powerful that the battery technology has not kept up.

Nonsense. One can size the battery so it still provides enough power even after two years.

The device is under warranty for two years. Which means if you noticed your phone slowing down, all you had to do was go to Apple and get a new battery for free.

US warranty is one year.

And you could only get a replacement battery if it failed Apple’s store test. Otherwise Apple refused to replace it, even if you were willing to pay.
 
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I am guessing you don't spend time with people you can expect to defraud you, right?
So why would you ever spend another red cent with this venal company who has - and intends to continue?

The first time it's on them.
Now that you know their nature, it's on you.

Send the phone back and buy something from an honest company.

1. Because i just only pay 1/4 of the original price. Part of the deal of renewal of my contract.
2. I love ios.
3. Youre not making any sense here. Send the phone back? I still have 2 more yrs to enjoy iphone x before the release of the next gen iphone. Slow down.
 
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