Apple Plans to Start Reopening Retail Stores in First Half of April

[Steve686]

Well you've heard the old saying.

Man plans. God laughs.

Guess we will wait and see what areas Apple will be able to initiate soft openings at.

 

[Vjosullivan]

Like the fact that I have first hand knowledge of this virus by having it myself...

If having a disease made you an expert on it, all diseases would have be cured by now.

 

[sirghost]

If having a disease made you an expert on it, all diseases would have be cured by now.

Nice editing there.

you took what I said and who I was replying to way out of context.

Below is who and what I was replying to and the complete statement I made in full.

JimmyBanks6 said:
You have ignored all of the facts that have been given to you and continue to push your rubbish.

It has continually been shown to be irrelevant, as is your reply you just made.

Like the fact that I have first hand knowledge of this virus by having it myself and that for healthy people it is not as big of a deal as the media and yourself are playing it to be?

if that is me being irrelevant then your opinion of me being irrelevant is irrelevant in of itself.

 

[Vjosullivan]

you took what I said and who I was replying to way out of context.

Below is who and what I was replying to and the complete statement I made in full.

Like the fact that I have first hand knowledge of this virus by having it myself and that for healthy people it is not as big of a deal as the media and yourself are playing it to be?

You are clearly citing the fact that you have the infection as the basis for making further claims. As I said before, having the infection does not make you an expert on it.

 

[sirghost]

you took what I said and who I was replying to way out of context.

Below is who and what I was replying to and the complete statement I made in full.


You are clearly citing the fact that you have the infection as the basis for making further claims. As I said before, having the infection does not make you an expert on it.

You are somewhat right, I should have used should be rather then the word is.

it still does not mean you are foregiven for the selective editing you did to make my statement look worse then it really was. You must work for the media, lol

 

[recoil80]

Calm yourself that even in messed up places like Italy, where they have recently admitted they are over counting deaths, the average age of those dying is 85 and most all have had a serious underlying health condition.

Yes, in Italy the death toll is high, but we are counting all people who died with COVID, not necessarily because of it. Some of those people would have died anyway, the virus accelerated their death or is only partially related to it.
The majority of people heal and don't need to be hospitalised, but some do, even in their 30s or 20s. Last week one of my friend's colleague died at 46 and he was healthy as far as we know. The first known patient finally left hospital, after a month, and he is 38.
I'd say don't panic and over react, but take it very seriously.

 

[Neepman]

You’re missing the the whole point of social distancing and stay at home strategies: to spread the number of patients that end up in ICU over 4 to 6 or 12 months instead of a month or two.

If those needing ventilators outstrip the supply, that’s when you have to decide who lives and who dies, like Italy. If you spread those same number of critically ill patients over many months and keep within the capacity of our healthcare system to care for them, we won’t have as many unnecessary and avoidable deaths.

Under both scenarios, the same number of people may ultimately be infected, but the number who will die could be drastically different.

Infection is not a guarantee of sick and sick is not a guarantee of dead. And Pro Tip, Doctors decide who lives and who dies everyday. 12 months of this situation where few are working and producing would create a world that will not be livable for generations.

 

[sirghost]

Infection is not a guarantee of sick and sick is not a guarantee of dead. And Pro Tip, Doctors decide who lives and who dies everyday. 12 months of this situation where few are working and producing would create a world that will not be livable for generations.

The above is one of the smartest thing I have heard n this thread all along. There seems to be a group of folks who see, to think that becoming sick means it leads to death which is not always or even the majority of the time, the case.

 

[cmaier]

Can you site proof of that claim as there is proof that the percentage of ANY age group dying is nowhere near 40% as seen in the link below.

Coronavirus death rate: What are the chances of dying?

The current best guess of a 1% death rate does not apply to everyone.

www.bbc.com

You are misreading what he said. He didn’t say forty percent of an age group does. He said forty percent of deaths were under an age.

 

[sirghost]

You are misreading what he said. He didn’t say forty percent of an age group does. He said forty percent of deaths were under an age.

Thank you for pointing that out, was my mistake there.

I would though still like to know the math and stats that actually show what he is saying is true and not something pulled out of his ..... end.

 

[cmaier]

Yes, in Italy the death toll is high, but we are counting all people who died with COVID, not necessarily because of it. Some of those people would have died anyway, the virus accelerated their death or is only partially related to it.
The majority of people heal and don't need to be hospitalised, but some do, even in their 30s or 20s. Last week one of my friend's colleague died at 46 and he was healthy as far as we know. The first known patient finally left hospital, after a month, and he is 38.
I'd say don't panic and over react, but take it very seriously.

And because of CV19 many people without CV19 will die because the hospitals will be too full.

“would have died anyway” is a stupid argument. We will all die anyway. There is no need to accelerate the process when a couple months staying at home will do the trick.

 

[recoil80]

And because of CV19 many people without CV19 will die because the hospitals will be too full.

“would have died anyway” is a stupid argument. We will all die anyway. There is no need to accelerate the process when a couple months staying at home will do the trick.

I was trying to explain why Italy has, apparently, much more deaths than other countries. If you have an heart attack and test positive to COVID you get counted here, even if the virus isn't the cause of death. I don't think there is time and resources to perform autopsy to everybody, so if they're positive they're counted.
Anyway, I'm taking it very seriously. I'm the only one in the family taking care of buying food. My wife hasn't left the house since the beginning of March, so my in laws and my daughter. Living in a constant state of fear is not good though, that's why I say don't panic and over react.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Infection is not a guarantee of sick and sick is not a guarantee of dead.

Of course not, and I never said otherwise. But interacting with others while infected (including those infected who are still asymptomatic) is how the disease is spread. And the vast majority of those who catch the virus won’t die from it. But depending on age and comorbidities present, you can be in a group where < 1 in 1,000 of those infected die (<0.1%) or in a group where about 1/2 (50%) die.

And Pro Tip, Doctors decide who lives and who dies everyday.

Pro tip: most doctors rarely if ever find themselves in that position. It’s a terrible burden to put onto those who are dedicated to saving lives.

12 months of this situation where few are working and producing would create a world that will not be livable for generations.

Hyperbolic and unsupported speculation. And who said shelter in place for non-essential workers should last a year?

You can be sure the economy isn’t going to magically come back to anything approaching normal if we don’t control the virus, and if hundreds of thousands of people start dying.

Control the virus first—of course difficult without face masks and widespread/universal testing—then the economy will be able to re-start and get back to normal. And since about half of all those who test positive are as yet asymptomatic, eliminating social distancing and throwing people back together before they’ve been tested is nothing short of insanity. That’s not the way to control a deadly infectious disease.

 

[woody686]

Insufficient since it also survives on surfaces for up to 3 days and for some strains up to 5 days. For complete protection you'll want gloves and full suit. Or, just order online and sanitize the package when it arrives to be safe. Risks are still too high with hospitals overcrowded and cost of treatment upwards of $40K.

On the Diamond Princess cruise ship they found Coronavirus that survived in cabins for 17 days after passengers disembarked, before they cleaned them away. I reckon 3 weeks is more like the longevity of a strain on certain surfaces in certain conditions however I'm no virologist.
[automerge]1585134479[/automerge]

This is horribly irresponsible to be announcing this even before the cases of Covid have peaked, which isn't likely to happen by mid-april.

You mean the cases of CV haven't peaked in Canada. There is a bigger world out there and some countries have already passed the peak - so why can't Apple reopen the stores in those countries in mid-April? Don't always think the world centres around your area.

 

[PickUrPoison]

The above is one of the smartest thing I have heard n this thread all along. There seems to be a group of folks who see, to think that becoming sick means it leads to death which is not always or even the majority of the time, the case.

With an overall death rate likely in the range of 0.5% to approximately 2%, about 99% of those infected will not die. But what if 100-200 million become infected? Not many people are ok with a million Americans dying from this.
[automerge]1585136160[/automerge]

On the Diamond Princess cruise ship they found Coronavirus that survived in cabins for 17 days after passengers disembarked, before they cleaned them away. I reckon 3 weeks is more like the longevity of a strain on certain surfaces in certain conditions however I'm no virologist.

The RNA of the virus was detected 17 days later, but that’s to be expected. That doesn’t mean that doesn’t mean the virus was still viable and would have been able to infect someone. That time period is usually said to be much shorter (a few days) but the studies necessary to determine that definitively, and under what conditions, have yet to be completed.

So it’s best to assume the worst, and disinfect accordingly. In other words, don’t assume the virus is inactive simply on the basis of a certain elapsed time.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

It has little to do with the stock market.

99% of the businesses are considered small businesses.

While they are closed, they can't pay employees or their own bills (rent, etc).

Once the closings hit a tipping point, the business failures will cascade until we are quickly into a depression (not recession).

Keeping businesses closed is not a long term option.

Business be damned. This virus respects no economic agenda. It seeks to infect and spread. If it kills the host, well, that happens. If it's able to mask the infection and make the infected person feel fine until it hits them, it can spread further. Ignoring the purpose of the virus and the effects on people is toxic. In this country, the train hasn't even slowed, the injured are still being counted, the dead are still piling up. So let's all risk our lives for the economy? Some no nothing jerk on Fox News says 'we can't make the cure worse than the disease'. Tell that to someone undergoing chemotherapy. There are already instances of areas 'lowering their guard' and cases surging, but this country hasn't even hit the plateau yet! We aren't even sure if the light at the end of the tunnel is a train, a car, or an asteroid collision. We DON'T KNOW WHERE WE STAND YET! So, sure, let's follow the advice of a Fox News talking head. Let's tempt fate. Let's throw caution to the wind and 'hope' that things go positive. HOPE that the death rate doesn't spike like in Italy. HOPE that the hospitals don't close and the dead end up piled up in the parking lots. That the sick aren't left to die in their beds like in Italy. Force doctors to decide who lives or dies.

A local hospital said they have no more ventilators. They have no masks. They have no way to protect doctors and nurses. So let's risk flooding more sick people into a system that can't keep itself working. Sounds like a great idea. A+!

People are harping on the tests. 'If you are negative, you are good'. But the problem is there is a reported high false negative problem with the results. Many people 'test negative', but are sick. Some who have tested negative, but are tested days after end up testing positive. If the damn virus can fool the test, we really are in a bad place. But, let's open up things as if they are normal, to 'save the economy'. Sure... We aren't in this together. It's everyone for themselves.
[automerge]1585141507[/automerge]

No, it won't be more risky then than now. Yes, the number of cases continues to increase today - this is expected, and a normal part of the infection rate curve. It's just simple statistics. The active cases curve plays out roughly the same in every country...about 30 days from the rapid growth in cases to the peak. China peaked in mid February, U.S. will likely peak in April. Apple is probably right on target with predicting early-mid April for rapid decline in the number of U.S. cases.

View attachment 901128

But those places had testing. Those places literally locked people in their homes. Those places took this seriously. If more people are thrown at this virus, more people will be infected, and more people will be sick, and more people will die. We haven't even begun to plateau, and see the top of the curve! It's premature. It's reckless.

 

[Neepman]

Business be damned. This virus respects no economic agenda. It seeks to infect and spread. If it kills the host, well, that happens. If it's able to mask the infection and make the infected person feel fine until it hits them, it can spread further. Ignoring the purpose of the virus and the effects on people is toxic. In this country, the train hasn't even slowed, the injured are still being counted, the dead are still piling up. So let's all risk our lives for the economy? Some no nothing jerk on Fox News says 'we can't make the cure worse than the disease'. Tell that to someone undergoing chemotherapy. There are already instances of areas 'lowering their guard' and cases surging, but this country hasn't even hit the plateau yet! We aren't even sure if the light at the end of the tunnel is a train, a car, or an asteroid collision. We DON'T KNOW WHERE WE STAND YET! So, sure, let's follow the advice of a Fox News talking head. Let's tempt fate. Let's throw caution to the wind and 'hope' that things go positive. HOPE that the death rate doesn't spike like in Italy. HOPE that the hospitals don't close and the dead end up piled up in the parking lots. That the sick aren't left to die in their beds like in Italy. Force doctors to decide who lives or dies.

A local hospital said they have no more ventilators. They have no masks. They have no way to protect doctors and nurses. So let's risk flooding more sick people into a system that can't keep itself working. Sounds like a great idea. A+!

People are harping on the tests. 'If you are negative, you are good'. But the problem is there is a reported high false negative problem with the results. Many people 'test negative', but are sick. Some who have tested negative, but are tested days after end up testing positive. If the damn virus can fool the test, we really are in a bad place. But, let's open up things as if they are normal, to 'save the economy'. Sure... We aren't in this together. It's everyone for themselves.
[automerge]1585141507[/automerge]


But those places had testing. Those places literally locked people in their homes. Those places took this seriously. If more people are thrown at this virus, more people will be infected, and more people will be sick, and more people will die. We haven't even begun to plateau, and see the top of the curve! It's premature. It's reckless.

"Business be damned."- Spoken like someone who has never worked in the private sector. The money does come from someplace you know. Most businesses run on razor thin margins and their owners are not like Scrooge McDuck with a room where they play with their money like a bouncy house.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

"Business be damned."- Spoken like someone who has never worked in the private sector. The money does come from someplace you know. Most businesses run on razor thin margins and their owners are not like Scrooge McDuck with a room where they play with their money like a bouncy house.

I ran my own company for over 30 years. I realize that if there are no people to buy my products and services, I also don't eat. There is a fine line between serving others and serving yourself. Allowing the distancing recomendations to lapse and encouraging people to ignore all of the warnings is self serving. Eventually, as has been shown in this pandemic, this is going to rise out of control, it already is. Throwing out social controls for economic gain is unsustainable, and horrifically short sighted.

 

[trusso]

Leaks like this may be more to steady share prices than actually to reopen stores.

 

[sofila]

Italy had a massive influx of returning Chinese workers from Wuhan

Source?
I'm in the middle of Milan, Lombardy. I'm positive to COVID-19 like a bunch of people here. We have been wondering how it started for longer than a month but never heard about "massive influx of returning Chinese workers from Wuhan"
You may want to review where you get your news from

 

[steve knight]

Everyone going should use masks
At least to prevent spread.

well except there are no masks.

 

[Neepman]

Source?
I'm in the middle of Milan, Lombardy. I'm positive to COVID-19 like a bunch of people here. We have been wondering how it started for longer than a month but never heard about "massive influx of returning Chinese workers from Wuhan"
You may want to review where you get your news from

Chinese companies have been investing in the Italian fashion industry for years. They use imported Chinese workers that way the swag can still say "Made in Italy". They are also working in other Italian industries as well and stuck in dorms just like the workers who made your iPhone. You see this accounted in some of the personal blog posts from the Italian north. No one seems to bother or is afraid to mention this fact due to the racial and racist implications. But Facts are not racist.

'As if we were the disease': coronavirus brings prejudice for Italy's Chinese workers

Xenophobia and job losses prompt textile industry staff in Tuscany to consider returning to China

www.theguardian.com

Reuters | Breaking International News & Views

Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.

de.reuters.com

The Chinese Workers Who Assemble Designer Bags in Tuscany

Many companies are using inexpensive immigrant labor to manufacture handbags that bear the coveted “Made in Italy” label.

www.newyorker.com

 

[sofila]

Chinese companies have been investing in the Italian fashion industry for years. They use imported Chinese workers that way the swag can still say "Made in Italy". They are also working in other Italian industries as well and stuck in dorms just like the workers who made your iPhone. You see this accounted in some of the personal blog posts from the Italian north. No one seems to bother or is afraid to mention this fact due to the racial and racist implications. But Facts are not racist.

'As if we were the disease': coronavirus brings prejudice for Italy's Chinese workers

Xenophobia and job losses prompt textile industry staff in Tuscany to consider returning to China

www.theguardian.com

Reuters | Breaking International News & Views

Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.

de.reuters.com

The Chinese Workers Who Assemble Designer Bags in Tuscany

Many companies are using inexpensive immigrant labor to manufacture handbags that bear the coveted “Made in Italy” label.

www.newyorker.com

Ok. One from 2013, the other from 2018 and the third one talking about racial prejudices leading to despicably events in February. No mention about massive returns from Wuhan bringing the virus in Italy in 2020. You may want to review your sources, if you want to look reliable. Unless it is just a matter of throwing in some ready-made sentence here or there.

 

[Ryth]

Pro tip: most doctors rarely if ever find themselves in that position. It’s a terrible burden to put onto those who are dedicated to saving lives.

Everything being touted by experts is hyperbolic and speculation (and that's all it is...experts guessing) because the data is so incomplete. As more data comes in this looks no more serious that a epidemic seasonal epidemic flu. It matching the same curve/peaks, etc...same ways to pass it on, has a slightly higher contagious rate (but even that is being disputed by more new data), possibly asymptotic spread (which is being questioned since many people cannot remember what they did a few hours ago) etc.

Places like Japan have barely any cases, haven't taken any where near any protocols then we have, and were told they were going to get hammered by this, and nothing like that happened.

So every time something like this comes up, it basically destroys any credible explanation by an expert, but reinforces the statisticians/etc that say again "The experts have no idea what's going to happen"

Unless you give us that feel in this particular way something else than "IT'S NOT THE FLU", like it causes your D--K to fall off if you get it, then basically it's just like any other respiratory virus epidemic/pandemic. That's fact. Just because a car and SUV handle, drive, have some different capabilities, they are still automobiles and overall are similar enough that they get compared to. This isn't a car and a plane were comparing here. It's two automobiles (respiratory virus). Even the CDC calls them...wait for it...Influenza-like Illnesses.

So our response should be measured to those. Right now we're not measured at that level. Destroying the economy in the process.

They will not know the big picture till this is all said and done in a year or more.

The BEST MODEL is the past flu/respiratory epidemics/pandemics from the modern past. They are the most completed picture for this.

A fiasco in the making? As the coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data

A fiasco in the making? As the #coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data.

www.statnews.com

Coronavirus Update VI — Calm Yourselves

All the good stuff, caveats, code, and explanations are linked, some in Update III, and the most important in Update II, Update IV, Update V, and Bayes Theorem & Coronavirus, so go to them fir…

wmbriggs.com

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Everything being touted by experts is hyperbolic and speculation (and that's all it is...experts guessing) because the data is so incomplete. As more data comes in this looks no more serious that a epidemic seasonal epidemic flu. It matching the same curve/peaks, etc...same ways to pass it on, has a slightly higher contagious rate (but even that is being disputed by more new data), possibly asymptotic spread (which is being questioned since many people cannot remember what they did a few hours ago) etc.

But 'experts' have education and experience on their side. They know what's going on, and through that education and experience can project what the likelihood of certain things happening could/should/will be. To say the 'virus is going to magically disappear when it gets warmer' with no knowledge of virology, the 'numbers are going down' when they are in fact going up and we are weeks into a logarithmic curve with no sign that it's even starting to attenuate or slow down, and that the mortality rate is 'less than for the flu' when it's clearly higher (ask Italy), is crazy/reckless.

So I'd really rather hear from experts who are making 'educated guesses' than a self-serving investor/politician/right wing glitterati class trying to save their money and profit from this.