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Well then consider yourself lucky trey, the things that you are using your phone for are apparently barely eating up any battery. Because according to the Apple Store, 4.5 hrs of usage time is on par with what is to be expected.

OP

I want to hear what you have to say to Mikhail. He came up with a legit well-informed reply but you haven't even acknowledged it....

You're right, that was a well thought out reply. I acknowledge it.

Assuming that what he is saying is true, that Apple is already in the process of doing precisely what I asked of them in the OP, and it's just taking them longer than anticipated, then good.

I will be happy to acknowledge that Apple is still looking out for quality and staying ahead of the competition once the iPhone 5 built on 28nm, with a 4" Super AMOLED Plus display, and a dedicated Navigation app comparable to Google's comes out next year.
 
So what you're telling me is that as a consumer, you have zero respect for yourself.

Other companies care about the bottom line over everything else, and they long term lose customers using that philosophy.

Apple has historically built customer loyalty and made money by investing in expensive technologies and processes in order to deliver superior products with superior build quality.

Apple spends a bucket load more to build all their laptops on a Unibody construction, all from one solid block of alumunium. That's not cheap, it's pricy as hell, and Apple opted to go that route anyways because it was the better choice, regardless of cost.

It's decisions like that made Apple so popular amongst it's consumers.

And Apple needs to continue to think like that even with Steve Jobs gone, continue to give it's customers top notch products, even if it costs them more money, if it wants to continue on the path that Steve Jobs and Johnathan Ivy set them on.

Steve Jobs was involved with the iPhone 4S development, it was probably his decision to hold off on the "5" for 2012.

I don't know how you're only getting 4.5 hours of usage... but clearly based on the post of other people on this forum that the average user isn't just using the phone for 4.5 hours and it goes dead.

22nm processors will save some power and so will OLED... BUT the amount of power saved is so tiny you'll eek out 30 min to 1 hour more usage, BFD... you'll still be bitching after those changes are made and all they've done is cost themselves more money. OLED isn't some miracle panel that lasts hours and hours on a watch battery's amount of power. If I were to blame anything killing the battery more blame it on your reception and signal. Radio is the biggest battery killer on mobile phones.

And lastly this has really nothing to do with me as a consumer. This is a business end decision on them. I can go cry in my glass of milk all night but I don't control their business and I actually understand their business enough to see where they are coming from.

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You're making a lot of assumptions. First of all, money isn't everything despite what you hear.

Having all the cash in the world will not give Apple the technologies that you want them to have or allow them to engineer the next revolution. It takes time and smart people. You can't throw money at a group of college students and expect them to build the next iPhone with hexacore CPUs, 8GB, 120GB and 2000x200 resolution screen in 6 months with the capability of producing 10 millions of the same device per 3 month schedule. It just doesn't happen, even if the fund is infinite, the resources and people aren't.

Apple does not build their own CPUs, they design it and then outsource manufacturing to the fabs. Apple certainly already have 22nm designs but they can't build it until the fabs have the technologies to build it at the globe scale. That is the biggest problems that Apple have, they have many designs they are experimenting but they can't build what is not possible right now. There are no Fabs that can produce what Apple needs at global scale, including AMOLED displays. There aren't enough supply to produce 10+ millions of AMOLED devices per quarter. Samsung also reserve their stocks for their own devices and they're already maxing out on AMOLEDs. In fact, there were a time when Samsung had to switch from AMOLEDs because they couldn't produce enough of it.

There were rumors that Apple wanted AMOLED displays a year ago but there were no fabs that could supply it in the reasonable timeframe that Apple needs. We'll certainly see something new in a few years but at the moment, AMOLED won't happen for a while.

At this moment, there are also no mass production 22nm processes for mobile ARM chips.

It doesn't matter how much money you have, without the experience, Apple can't just build several fabs and shrink a process down to 22nm and expect a good yield out of it on the first try. No fabs on the planet has a good yield at the moment with 22nm processes, Intel is just starting to get a lot of success and expect to go into mass production by the end of the year and sell it next year. It took Intel several years to do this, Apple won't do this in less than a year

It cost billions to just build one fab and cost several more billions just for R&D on new technologies to find a way to shrink down the process. Not to mention that they'd have to pay for the rights to do this since there are thousands of patents involved that Apple'd have to license from other fabs.

Apple can bankrupt themselves just trying to find a way to do this. Why would they do this when they can just wait for the fabs to do this and then switch to it?

Also, if Apple does everything you want, it will not be possible to even make any profits on their devices. The initial expense on just building everything out will cost tens of billions of dollars and will take several years to finish. They'll lose money on each device they'll make for the first few years before they'll start making some returns.

If Apple is willing to do this, they'll do it in parallel developments. Continue to make truckload of money and then re-invest their money into building the fabs but it'll take several years before they can produce their own stuff.



Apple bought a few companies specialized in this area already but it'll take them some time to come up with a better navigation system. They can't just steal what Google have already.



There are no Cortex A15 CPU and the next-gen PowerVR series 6 CPU in mass production. Again, you're assuming everything is ready. Everything you're asking will happen but it'll take some time to get there. Money won't make it get there faster.

Also, not everybody agrees with AMOLED PLUS is the best display.



iPhone 4S is an evolution update, it's not designed to leapfrog the competition but to speed up the previous iPhone designs. Apple doesn't care about the competition, they're more focused on their own things. Right now, the internals in iPhone 4S is a huge jump from iPhone 4. The CPU and GPUs are the top contenders in those areas. Their GPU is the among the fastest on the market.

Screen size isn't always important. They won't switch to multiple devices just because there are a small group of people who prefer a 4" screen or 5" screen. Having 1 screen benefits everybody including developers who can program just for that specific screen. RAM size isn't important for most people, as it is more about how to optimize for the specific RAM. Throwing more RAM into it may encourage bad memory optimizations.

Battery capacity is about optimizations and also weight. Apple's still among the top in the market. Throwing more capacity without optimizing it will add more weight to the iPhone. iPhone 4S is already more heavy than the previous iPhone models by a few ounce.



Unfortunately, that's life in the software/hardware world. Just like Windows users can't use their fav apps on Macs and Android apps can't be used on Apple devices.



No, they haven't. There are no mass production 18/22nm processes right now. Intel is starting to go into mass production for 22nm just now and expect to sell it starting early next year. Source: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/silicon-innovations/intel-22nm-technology.html

Also, Intel didn't just sunk some money. You're making it sound like it is a simple task. Intel has decades of experience and the largest group of smart and dedicated engineers working on this and it took them several years to get from 45nm to 32nm and it also took them a few years to go down to 22nm. Apple have neither the experience and the resources to do this.

Also, Intel has nothing to do with Apple in this case. Intel failed to come up with technologies that competes with ARM CPUs. Apple's using ARM designs that are far more power efficient than Intel, which is the reason why all smartphones are using it.

Name one smartphone with Intel chips in it. Their 22nm processes that they are working on right now have absolutely nothing to do with mobile CPUs. It's designed for high power/TDPs CPUs that goes into computers and laptops.

With all of that in mind, what you're asking will happen in time, you have to be patient and to remember that while there are a few phones that are so much better than Apple's devices, they are limited to the current supply levels. They won't be able to outsell Apple with the same components.

Why don't you counter point this poster?

He was willing to write a crap load more than I am... but clearly he's more on the ball than you are.
 
You're right, that was a well thought out reply. I acknowledge it.

Assuming that what he is saying is true, that Apple is currently already in the process of doing precisely what I asked of them in the OP, and it's just taking them longer than anticipated, then good.

I will be happy to acknowledge that Apple is still looking out for quality and staying ahead of the competition once the iPhone 5 built on 28nm, with a 4" Super AMOLED Plus display comes out next year.

:confused:

- Few normal people choose phones based on specs (AMOLED, IPS, clock speed, etc.) - only the minority.

- The 4S is competitive with the current top-of-the-line Android phones in terms of real world usage (forget benchmarks for a second). The Android UI isn't very smooth compared to iOS so throwing faster CPUs at it isn't helping as much as you think.

- Battery life is on par with everyone else (certainly better than my last Android phone). There's only so much one can do with a battery the same size and a hungrier CPU / GPU (compared to the iPhone 4)

- AMOLED screens are fairly limited in supply as is right now - I don't think Apple can source nearly enough to satisfy demand (even if they measure up to whatever standard Apple wants their screens to meet). Hell, the 4S with the "regular" IPS screen is in high demand right now.

- No one can match even the iPhone 4's build quality (metal and glass when everyone's churning out similar-looking plastic phones) and it has been out for well over a year.

I'm sure the next generation will leapfrog competitors again.
 
You have more money than Intel and Samsung combined.

There is no excuse why the iPhone's CPU is built on 45nm while Intel with a much smaller amount of money is building everything on 22nm.

Use a 5.2 watt hour battery instead of the puny battery in the 4S.

Invest some money to build your own factories and shrink the chips.

That would double the iPhone's battery life.

Also please give us a built in navigation app comparable to Googe's.

The same applies to screens. Please go to Super AMOLED Plus and 4" and use PowerVR Series 6 gpu and a Cortex a15 cpu.

You have an insane amount of money, now use it to deliver some phones that are a generation beyond the competition like the previous iPhone's used to be.

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The sad part is, in the years past, each iPhone was ahead of competitors at the time of release.

The iPhone and iPhone 3G was years beyond competitors in terms of touch capabilities.

The 3GS was an year beyond competitors in terms of ram, cpu, and gpu.

The iPhone 4 was an year beyond competitors in terms of screen resolution.

In what aspect is the 4s beyond competitors? It has a worse screen size, cpu clockspeed, ram, battery size and battery life than competitors. It's on par with them only in the areas of gpu and resoultion. But in most areas, it's actually behind others, not ahead.

That's not the Apple I know. And unfortunately, having already sunk well over a $1000 on Apps and iTunes purchases, I can't leave them for the better phones on the market either.

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Apple should take a page out of Intel and invest their money into shrinking the die size of the ARM chips that they are producing so that they can release more powerful ARM chips that get better battery life as well, due to being built on 22nm rather than 45nm.

Intel sunk some money into shrinking the diesize and moved past 45nms several years ago. Now they are going down to 18nm.

Why can't apple sink some of it's cash in order to shrink the diesize of their ARM chips as well.

I think your best bet is to go Android. the iPhone is not for everyone. Tons of Android phones out there to choose from that can suit your needs
 
....but because I already sunk over a $1000 into Apple Apps and iTunes.

$1000 and you didn't spend a $30-$100 on a good gps app?
I think you should, there are some great ones available in the AppStore. Many which store the maps into the phone, which is a great when actually on the road.
 
I recall John Gruber (or someone else) saying that the 3.5" form factor is better than a 4" because most people can hold the phone in one hand and still reach the entire screen with the same hand to use the touch interface. Considering how much Apple cares about the (re)development effort for apps as well, if it ever does come with a 4" screen the resolution would be lower compared to the 3.5" screen.

Plus, people here have already said there's no comparing Intel and Apple. At least for the next few years, the ARM roadmap and Apple's own guidelines for designing a phone would be the main factor.

Also, I don't recall Apple ever being a pioneer in the hardware specs on the mobile front, except for the Retina display, which is truly amazing! Specs like CPU speed and RAM don't matter much for comparison except when comparing the user experience, more so when the operating systems are entirely different (iOS vs. Android or Windows Mobile or Symbian).

Apple has always lagged on the camera resolution compared to competitors, and for someone interested in the saturated colors of a Super AMOLED Plus, I'd assume a bigger sensor resolution would provide more boasting prowess.

To the OP:
MrXiro said:
If I were to blame anything killing the battery more blame it on your reception and signal. Radio is the biggest battery killer on mobile phones.

This would be my first suspicion too. You're probably having poor signals for both cellular and WiFi (if you use both). Poor battery life for such conditions is something no phone manufacturer can help you with using the current state of technologies.

I'd suggest you look at some battery optimization changes on the phone to see if something that you don't really depend on is causing a drain (like Location Services, Push Notifications, WiFi, 3G, etc.), and put in some effort to manage your battery life better. You may have to turn on and turn off some of these regularly to save energy, but it might at least provide you with a usable phone. With your "sunkenness" in the Apple ecosystem, you'd anyway have to wait for another year for iPhone 5. Apple is not likely to dramatically accelerate its product release cycle in the next year or so. Not until the core components that cost a lot remain almost the same and can be mass produced in really huge quantities (like flash memory, display, etc.)
 
Of course I'm talking about the +. Sorry I forgot to specify but I am talking about the Super AMOLED + displays that have been out on the market for almost an year now.

All of your criticisms are about the non + versions. The + version is what I'm referring to.

Those whoop on the IPS display in the iPhone, and every comparison says so.

Or hell, just go look at one if you don't believe me.

A 4" Super AMOLED + at 960x640 would be a drastic improvement over the current screen.

And my point about the nm is that Apple does not have to wait for Samsung to lower the nm. Apple has more than enough funds that they could keep pace with Intel and come out with 18nm ARM chips, exclusively available on iPhones many years before others start making them.

It would give them a huge edge over the competition in terms of battery life and processing power.

You keep going on about Super amoled + giving superior battery life, but why is it that the so called flagship android phone (Galaxy S2) Has absolutely woeful battery life, even compared to the iphone 4S.

Maybe its true that apple could have superior battery life if they used this technology, but they will want to do something different to android/samsung, because they certainly arent gaining anything by using it, unless the pathetic battery life their phones have now would actually be even worse without it (shudder to think).

Also, going on and on about the processer in terms of performance is ludicrous. The iphone 4S CLEARLY and COMPREHENSIVELY outshines any current android phone in terms of speed and processing power purely because of good software/hardware design. To say there is any android phone that runs smoother or faster than the iphone 4S is silly to say the least.

And saying a smaller screen size is automatically a worse thing, and that apple are falling behind because of it, is ridiculous, and i think you know it. Not everyone wants bigger bigger bigger.

Lets wait and see how many of the ridiculous 5.3 galaxy notes get sold.
 
Every comparison says the Super AMOLED displays blows all other displays away, and this is even at a lower resolution. A Super AMOLED display at 960x640 would be absolutely stunning.


I had the Samsung Galaxy S (Super AMOLED I think). The screen was beautiful, for a week, after which I got burn-in. The clock, and status bar burned in so you could see it when switching to landscape mode. No thanks, that phone was off to ebay pretty soon. (Another reason was the extreme lag of the software)

And it was too big. The 3,5" of the iPhone is perfect!
 
That's my point. Having an unpopular opinion doesn't make someone a troll. Just like having a popular opinion/post praising apple to high heaven or claiming the 4s is perfect in every way does not make someone correct.

Truth isn't determined by popularity.

And acknowledging the weaknesses of the iPhone 4s, or the multitude of areas where it has fallen behind competitors, certainly does not make someone a troll.

I agree, highlighting what you think are weaknesses or areas where Apple have fallen behind does not make you a "troll". But you must understand that not everyone thinks they are weaknesses like you are trying to suggest. It is your opinion that a 3.5" screen is now too small; but then the next person might think that a 3.5" screen is the perfect size. So what's a weakness for you is a big plus for someone else.

Also don't forget that AMOLED screens tend to suck more power than IPS when displaying light colours.
 
Lmao.

Having an unpopular opinion isn't the same as trolling.

The truth stings sometimes. When you just shelled out several hundred dollars on a device, and have a heavy vested interest in a platform, of course you're not going to want to acknowledge the weaknesses of that same device/platform.

Yes, my opinion is unpopular on a dedicated Apple message board, but it's not wrong.

So wait, is it your opinion or the truth? :confused:

You don't seem to understand that your OPINION is not fact.

What makes you a troll is not your opinion, it is spouting the same crud over and over while ignoring most of the well written posts.
 
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I love my iPhone 4s and loved my 4 and my 3g so doubt i'll buy any other brand again - Just my opinion!
 
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Of course I'm stuck with it.

Am I supposed to flush the $1000+ I've sunk into iTunes and App Store purchases over the years down the toilet.

It's ludicrous to say you can just throw away that kind of money without giving it a second thought.

It sucks having to stick with a phone that feels behind the competition in terms of screensize, battery life, and navigation options but the alternative, throwing away $1000 is even worse.

The sad part is, in the years past, each iPhone was ahead of competitors at the time of release.

Nothing was comparable to the iPhone's touch technology until the 3GS.

The 3GS was ahead of all competitors at the time in terms of ram, cpu and gpu.

No phone at the iPhone 4's launch could touch the iPhone's retina display.

But now, the 4S is behind competitors in terms of screen size, battery capacity, ram, cpu and only on par with them in terms of screen resolution and gpu.
No worries, the sixth generation iPhone will certainly have a bigger screen. The only reason there is to not have a bigger screen is because of the App Store: all apps would be bigger. But Apple should get over that: developers will update their apps.

I do expect a bigger screen next year, as well as a redesign. That means a (slightly) bigger case: add the A6 processor which hopefully will be more energy efficient and smaller again and you will get a bigger battery.

A bigger screen, and thus a redesign of the iPhone, will solve most of the problems here. A bigger screen means more space in the case = a bigger battery. A6 will be better than the A5 (or well, that's what I hope) and again improved battery life. If Apple is going for newer, more energy-efficient LED backlighting the battery will be even better.
 
I think a 4" iphone is a better combo.Its not galaxy note big and not to small. My mom is 5'2'' and has a 4'' Samsung fascinate so I don't see why it would be a problem for most.I also would prefer a super amoled plus over IPS but its not a deal killer for me.
 
Okay so you are ranting about how much you hate iphone just because of it's screen size, you expected a smaller and much faster cpu? Better battery life? In fact, my battery life is superb, I can get 15 hours of my battery life just on usage before it dies (considering that I listen to music most of the time). and you are also complaining because you spent thousands of dollars worth of itunes ecosystem? Well here is a solution for you:

Stop complaining about the Apple products. If you hate your iphone that much, go smash it, buy an android. Also get an ipod touch so your apple ecosystem isn't wasted. There your problem is fixed.:cool:
 
As everyone suggests, if you're unhappy with the iPhone, just go pick up an android. I'm sure you can sell your iPhone to make up some of your $.

You say your problem with switching to android is the $$ you have invested in apps. If you operate under the assumption that it'll be a year before apple has a product that'll suit your needs, you can devide up that amount ($1000) by how many hours you'd be "unhappily" using your iphone over the next year. Works out to around $0.60 /hr. by switching to android (assuming 5 hours of usage a day), you're losing 60 cents an hour of usage. Wouldn't you say that $3 a day is worth the happiness you'd gain by switching to an android phone that would suit your needs better?

Also, many of the apps you're losing have free alternatives on the android market place.. I can't imagine you're using all $1000+ worth of apps on a daily/weekly basis anyways. Just replace the apps as you need them. It all comes down to how much your phone usage happiness is worth to you. If its not worth $3 a day to switch to android, then you can't be too unhappy with your iphone.

Life's too short to let little things make you even a tiny bit unhappy.. I get a new phone every year because having the latest device makes me happy. I use the thing every single day, and it adds up to hours a day. Might as well have something that makes you smile every time you pull it out of your pocket :)
 
A strange debate, this one. If you're selling product by the million, managing the introduction of new technology and features without degrading the user experience or unacceptable bug risk is a challenge. My colleagues (in a tech company) with S2 phones have worse battery life, early burn-in and all sorts of unproductive leaping up and down before software upgrades can be made to work. They also appear to have downloaded the occasional rogue app. This is presumably the joy of leading edge technology.
Apple seems to prefer a leading edge user experience - at the time of the first i-phone launch some other products had some better features - camera, processor, whatever, but few were as reliable or well integrated. This has been maintained through subsequent releases, with better hardware and software, unparalleled touch management and a constantly improving user experience. The 4S has a couple of battery bugs that should be eliminated in the next iOS update. Presumably the next iphone will have the newest A-series chip with more user experience improvements. Apple has to keep an eye on the competition to see that it has nothing to undermine Apple customers' perception
of quality in significant numbers, but it need not match them nm for nm to achieve that.
 
At last!!!!...the OP obviously knows his stuff and can see that apple have just been raking in the money in the last year rather than concentrate on tech advances like samsung,intel etc....if the fanboys would just stop saying "i love apple this" and i kiss apple " that and just take a step back and see that apple with all their money should be ahead of the rest....yet they are so obviously not....:confused:
 
The iPhone 4s is selling well in part because most of the previous iPhone owners are stuck with Apple due to having spend a bunch of money on Apps, Music and Movies already.

I upgraded to the 4s at launch not because I felt it was the best phone on the market (it's objectively behind competitors in terms of screen and battery), but because I already sunk over a $1000 into Apple Apps and iTunes.

So your two biggest complaints are battery-life and screen size?

I get AT LEAST a full day's use of the battery on my 4S, and I'm perfectly fine with the screen size just the way it is.

My GF's sister has a big screened HTC something or other, and the battery on that thing lasts about 2 hours; she has to KEEP it plugged in.

It's not remotely BEHIND anything. Do you honestly think folks would be buying it in droves if it were?
 
There isn't currently a CPU/GPU combo on the market (as in, in a real, for sale phone right now...assume in this statement that i am counting the galaxy nexus as "for sale") that outperforms the one in the iPhone 4S...clock speeds aren't everything.

So why exactly do they need to switch to a powervr/cortex combo?

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Well then keep the 3.5 inch iPhone.

But many of us are sick of being stuck with 3.5 inches, and the only reason we haven't left is that we are locked into Apple ecosystem thanks to the App Store and iTunes.

I don't want to forced to stick with iPhone because of my Apps. I want an iPhone that actually feels comparable to what competitors have to offer.

As far as music goes, your songs being in iTunes isn't a restriction at all, when I switched to WP7 for a while I moved my music very seamlessly and easily into Zune software so I could sync to my phone.
 
I'm not alone in this as multiple past polls all indicate the majority here would prefer a 4" screen size.
Irrelevant. Even if 100% of MacRumors forum users agreed they're just a tiny fraction of a percent of IOS users. Do you know how many millions of devices are out there? MacRumors forum users aren't a representative sample anyway as thy're enthusiasts.

None of your armchair analysis avoids the flaws of every other armchair analyst out there.

You need to sort out which is the bigger priority. Are you truly unhappy with the iPhone? If so, switch. Yes, it's abundantly clear how much you spent on IOS apps. You won't have to spend anywhere near as much with Android. Put your money where your mouth is. Apparently your priority is just ranting based on your specific wants and no one's interested if you can't tell by the ratings on your thread and posts. If you're truly unhappy then do something about it.

As a former Android user all I can say is that the grass is always greener.

At last!!!!...the OP obviously knows his stuff and can see that apple have just been raking in the money in the last year rather than concentrate on tech advances like samsung,intel etc....if the fanboys would just stop saying "i love apple this" and i kiss apple " that and just take a step back and see that apple with all their money should be ahead of the rest....yet they are so obviously not....:confused:
And criticizing the OP's flawed arguments does not make one a fanboy. I've seen the same, ridiculous flawed argument on every other discussion forum out there. It has nothing to do with Apple and everything to do with the OP. Every forum has people saying that "company X is failing because they're not doing what I want". Where's the market research to back up that what the OP specifically want is what the overall IOS userbase wants?

How is Apple "obviously" not ahead? The people making such claims love to cite hardware specs but Apple has never competed on specs alone. How is their market share being impacted? How is their profit being impacted? Give us some numbers to back your assertion that they're falling behind. It's not obvious and if you think it is you're just as deluded as the OP.

I don't know why Apple hasn't hired you yet. They would be thousand times richer.
Well, clearly Apple doesn't know what it's doing...
 
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OP, do some research first. Foundries are still ramping up 28nm bulk for logic.
 
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