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My Amiga could multitask and edit video and burn CD's.

NEXT!

:apple:

nicely done

I can't wait for the iTampon craze to settle down an Apple to finally update the MBP, MP, and ACDs. Oh, and a new iPhone would be nice too.
This whole craze over an iPod Touch on steroids is just sad. It's just a big iPod Touch that can run iWork. That's all. So how bout port iWork to iPhone and let me edit documents on the go? All the iWork/Office-like apps in the app store suck. At least I haven't found a decent one.

As to Apple displays, since that's the topic of this thread, I love the quality, hate the price. I don't mind the gloss, but an option would be nice for those who do. Just please don't price a display higher than a computer, Apple.
 
I honestly think they should have pushed for bigger sizes. 27" is good for the intermediate level but they should have offered 32" or 34". Apple seems to be going backwards instead of pushing forward. I just hope they offer a 30" version.
 
No offense, but are you seriously saying that a TN panel is on bar to a IPS panel in quality? I had a Samsung TN panel before, besides my Dell IPS 2007wfp, and the Dell blows the TN panel out of the water. Samsung was not LED, so a bit improvement in terms of contrast there could be...
IPS? I only see: "Screen type: TFT active-matrix LCD" [see link below] but the power usage (212 watts) should be a good indicator [7.5 times higher than the Samsung LED monitor] since IPS is a lot more power hungry. The Apple LED monitor isn't a 'green' monitor so to speak. The Samsung is, be it 'only' 1900 x 1080 instead of Apple's 1900 x 1200

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB382LL/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ&mco=MTA4MzU1MzE
 
Sign me up for 2 please :D

I love the apple cinema display. They are just awesome awesome monitors. NOTHING I have seen comes close.

Not to mention I don't even need to calibrate them. I do for consistancies sake but it makes no difference what so ever. Soooo nice :)

You must not have experience with many professional monitors:rolleyes: Furthermore, anyone who doesnt calibrate a monitor couldnt seriously be using it for print, color or critical graphic work of any kind

Ditto. I've yet to see a display in the last 15 months that can even compare, let alone surpass the 24" ACD. Expensive, but worth every penny. I love 'em!

Please take a look at NEC, LaCie and Eizo. I havent been to a professional print shop or retoucher using the new ACDs. Even the older models were purchased because of budgets.

Seriously, any "professional" that buys a mac display needs to seriously learn a thing or two about colour and save up for a good Eizo.

Eizos are certainly top of the food chain. But one doesnt even have to that far. Even the 30 inch Dells are better than existing Apple offerings.

I was about to write the same thing until I saw you made the point. After all these years there is still a lot of misconceptions about LCD monitors being all the same and "the spec sheet tells all." Most companies do not advertise they use TN panels for a reason.

The reality is Apple's monitors are expensive, but they are in-line for truly similar monitors. (I don't however like the glossy screen and hope a matte option is offered, even at additional cost, like the MBPs.)

That is very true one cannot compare TN to IPS panels in these discussions. Apple even understands that their current mirror displays aren't welcomed in a critical work. It is evident in the 17MBP marketing and likely explains why they havent released a larger monitor for more color critical customers

The quad core MacPro is not a good value. When compared to other company prices on Xeon based workstations, it can be almost $1000 cheaper to avoid the mac. If you switch to a core i7 instead of a Xeon, the gap widens to become ridiculous.

Only the dual quad core Mac Pro is competitive on price. Even then, a $3300 machine that comes with six 1 GB sticks of ram is a little insulting.

Indeed. The new MP quad cores are a horrible value and not competitive. the 8 core are somewhat competitive, but when you consider the staggering difference in video card offerings, the disparity grows sharply. Glad I jumped on the business EOL deal on 2.8 when I did. Apple even jacked the price on those too.

Any professional knows that while Eizo quality is 2nd to none, it's particularly precise quality is for very precise things. You don't need a monitor that precise to be a good photographer, nor a good Web Designer, nor even to match up print needs for 95% of business 2-D needs.

If you're a traffic manager for Vogue, and have one in a clean room, I get it. But even then, you'd just be showing off to have it sitting in your parlor to read Internet forums while you sip coffee.

Eizo's are certainly not in the price range for many professionals. But some are willing to pay for the best.
 
Finally! I am looking forward to pair the 27" Cinema display with my 27"iMac. I currently have a 1080P Vizio 26" (model VMM26) display paired with my iMac and it has been annoying to re-size windows one moving from the iMac screen to the Vizio. I am looking forward to having dual monitors of equal resolution.
 
2009 Mac Pros were the first pro system Apple have sold without the minimum amount of memory since before the G5 Power Mac days. The standard practice for Workstations has been to offer minimum amounts of memory and storage and let the customer decide the source and type of upgrades in these areas.

Sure. I get that. But why take up 6 of the 8 ram slots with the minimum amount of memory possible?

If it must be installed in pairs, the why not put in 2x 2 GB and take up only 2 of the 8 of the slots ? I feel like the 1 GB sticks are Apple trying to clear stock out of ram chips nobody is buying! ;)
 
Sure. I get that. But why take up 6 of the 8 ram slots with the minimum amount of memory possible?

If it must be installed in pairs, the why not put in 2x 2 GB and take up only 2 of the 8 of the slots ? I feel like the 1 GB sticks are Apple trying to clear stock out of ram chips nobody is buying! ;)

Not clearing stock as this Mac Pro is the only one that uses it, but saving money by only using one type of memory. Lots about the 2009 Mac Pros don't really make sense, I guess this is just another one of them.
 
Now if Apple blows our mind at a nice pricing point including 'apple tax' then ill happily take the things I said back. But I would rather see that the graphics cards in the Mac Pros have more than one mini DPs on them. So you could use 2 LED ACDs at once without an extra GPU.

1) Samsung displays are not IPS, they are TFT or TN

2) You only need one mini-dislpay port as display port allows for daisy-chaining monitors. I simply hope Apple uses that key feature with their new ACD's
 
Even today the Mac Pro is a good value. etc.

If Apple would sell a 450 mhz G4 today for 2500 $ there still would be some people claiming it's good value because it's Apple. Hey, I still have one of these, want to buy it?

Again, especially the quad core mac pros are terrible value by any means. 3gb ram, 640 gb hd & a video card that was outdated 2 years ago... By insisting on your claim you just proof you have zero hardware knowledge.
 
sigh....

Looks like I have to pull the trigger now. Can't wait for June. I was putting it off hoping to see what the update was like but can't justify the wait any longer. :(
 
I wonder if you can explain how Apple consistently has the highest customer satisfaction ratings in the industry if they don't give the customers what they want?

The reality is that Apple listens to their customers quite well. It's the know-it-all, never used a Mac, never want to use a Mac, loud-mouthed, forum trolls that Apple doesn't listen to. Oh, and the analysts who have never gotten anything right wrt Apple. Frankly, Apple is better off NOT listening to those groups.



This is, of course, total bull*****. Computers account for a large portion of Apple's revenues and R&D expense. Equally important is the fact that computers are also a key part of Apple's iPhone and iPad strategies. While it is true that Apple no longer cares ONLY about computers, your statement is flat out wrong.



You mean the software restrictions that offer 150,000 apps?

The tech definition of computer is 'programmable machine'.
http://www.techterms.com/definition/computer
The iPad easily fits that definition. All this garbage from people pretending that it's not a computer because it won't burn CDs is just ludicrous (by that standard, a large percentage of servers in use are not computers). It's clearly a computer - except to those who'd rather whine than think.



If you're happy with Dell U2410s, then good for you. No one cares. Apple isn't any more interested in competing in the cheap monitor market than in the cheap computer market. Just because Apple doesn't have a monitor for cheapskates doesn't mean their monitors are no good or overpriced.



Nice of you to trim out the part of my post where I said exactly that. The problem is that you are deciding arbitrarily that everyone needs 3 passengers - just as you are deciding that everyone needs a monitor with 12 ports - and then determining product quality on that basis.

In the REAL world, people decide what their needs are and then choose the product that best suits them. Some people don't need to carry 3 passengers and want a fast car. The Ferrari is better for them than a Ford Focus. Others simply want cheap transportation. The Hyundai is better for them. No one product fits every person - get it?

In the case of monitors, Apple's not selling monitors for the crowd who wants 12 different ports, so the number of ports is irrelevant to the target audience. They're selling very high quality monitors for the premium end of the market. Apple realizes full well that only a small number of people need that level of monitor quality, but they have no desire to compete on cheaper monitors. Why is it that you trolls have so much trouble with that? No one said you couldn't buy a Dell or Samsung or HP or LG monitor if you wish. If they meet your needs as well as the Apple monitor, you'd be crazy not to buy them. Personally, I don't buy Apple monitors because I don't need that kind of quality. I also don't buy the cheap crapola TN screens that some people around here are advocating. You buy what suits your needs. The fact that your needs are simple enough that you can't justify the Apple monitor is not a fault of the Apple monitor, it's simply a recognition that not everyone needs Ferraris.



Apple monitors are for people who don't find 'pretty good' to be good enough. If you're happy with your Dell, no one is begrudging that. It's not the same quality as an Apple 30" LCD.



Of course there are. What the Apple-bashers never seem to get is that Apple doesn't ever attempt to make a product that suits everyone - because that's a great way to get a lousy product. There are lots of other monitors and no one forces anyone to buy Apple's. However, when you look at monitors that match the Apple Cinema Display's quality, the price is pretty competitive.



Better in what way? More ports?

I have used Dell monitors. For general office use, they're adequate. But there's never been a Dell monitor built that can hold a candle to the Cinema Displays.

Of course, you're probably one of those people who will look at a crappy TN display and say it's better just because someone turned the brightness up all the way.


+50
 
sigh....

Looks like I have to pull the trigger now. Can't wait for June. I was putting it off hoping to see what the update was like but can't justify the wait any longer. :(

The new Mac Pro may very likely come well before June. The story said "by June". I've been told June is the very outside.
With everyone else coming with new computers by the end of this month, I can't imagine Apple being far behind. I just can't.
I, too, am waiting to by the new Mac Pro, so if you can hold out, do.
 
Brighter, better lighting uniformity, lower energy consumption, longer lasting. Is that enough?



I guess that means a Ford Focus is a better car than a Ferrari because it has more seats, right?

If you were the least bit rational, you'd look at what the user NEEDS, not play silly 'my monitor has more connections than yours' games. No one in their right mind buys a monitor solely on the basis of number of connectors. Now, if they need lots of connectors, the Dell might be a better choice, but simply saying 'more connectors = better' is foolish. For most people, a single power connector and single video connector is fine.

That said, I've never purchased any of the Apple LCD monitors because I wasn't willing to pay the price. I would venture that very few people need the consistency and performance of the Apple monitors enough to justify the price.

Comparing the dell screen to a ford and the apple to a ferrari is stupid. The dell uses the same screen and the 27in imac which most assume is what is going to go into the apple monitor. The real comparison would be the same model ferrari but one has more seats. Same screen, more options, thats what I'm getting at. This dell monitor will last me ages more because of those connections. I can hook up my xbox without buying a stupid adapter, I can connect my sony pd150 and use it as a monitor on site while i shoot, I can connect a dvd player ect ect. Apple monitor? Gonna have to buy a ton of adapters. Wooooo for being better!

Sure, not everyone is going to use all the connections, but if I can get the same quality display for a lower price with more options..... I dont know, maybe I am foolish and need to spend more money on brand alone. And really, is it so absurd to have more connections? How does that affect performance or build quality? How does having more video options or more usb ports or a media card reader make the screen cheap and ******. They are already charging a premium for the thing, might as well go all out.

Now, this is all assuming its the same monitor. If, as you speculate, it's brighter, has a larger color gamut, better light uniformity ect ect, then the purchase of this over the dell is justifiable. But something tells me thats not gonna be the case. All we can do is wait and see what apple sends our way.
 
I wonder if you can explain how Apple consistently has the highest customer satisfaction ratings in the industry if they don't give the customers what they want?

The reality is that Apple listens to their customers quite well. It's the know-it-all, never used a Mac, never want to use a Mac, loud-mouthed, forum trolls that Apple doesn't listen to. Oh, and the analysts who have never gotten anything right wrt Apple. Frankly, Apple is better off NOT listening to those groups.



This is, of course, total bull*****. Computers account for a large portion of Apple's revenues and R&D expense. Equally important is the fact that computers are also a key part of Apple's iPhone and iPad strategies. While it is true that Apple no longer cares ONLY about computers, your statement is flat out wrong.



You mean the software restrictions that offer 150,000 apps?

The tech definition of computer is 'programmable machine'.
http://www.techterms.com/definition/computer
The iPad easily fits that definition. All this garbage from people pretending that it's not a computer because it won't burn CDs is just ludicrous (by that standard, a large percentage of servers in use are not computers). It's clearly a computer - except to those who'd rather whine than think.



If you're happy with Dell U2410s, then good for you. No one cares. Apple isn't any more interested in competing in the cheap monitor market than in the cheap computer market. Just because Apple doesn't have a monitor for cheapskates doesn't mean their monitors are no good or overpriced.



Nice of you to trim out the part of my post where I said exactly that. The problem is that you are deciding arbitrarily that everyone needs 3 passengers - just as you are deciding that everyone needs a monitor with 12 ports - and then determining product quality on that basis.

In the REAL world, people decide what their needs are and then choose the product that best suits them. Some people don't need to carry 3 passengers and want a fast car. The Ferrari is better for them than a Ford Focus. Others simply want cheap transportation. The Hyundai is better for them. No one product fits every person - get it?

In the case of monitors, Apple's not selling monitors for the crowd who wants 12 different ports, so the number of ports is irrelevant to the target audience. They're selling very high quality monitors for the premium end of the market. Apple realizes full well that only a small number of people need that level of monitor quality, but they have no desire to compete on cheaper monitors. Why is it that you trolls have so much trouble with that? No one said you couldn't buy a Dell or Samsung or HP or LG monitor if you wish. If they meet your needs as well as the Apple monitor, you'd be crazy not to buy them. Personally, I don't buy Apple monitors because I don't need that kind of quality. I also don't buy the cheap crapola TN screens that some people around here are advocating. You buy what suits your needs. The fact that your needs are simple enough that you can't justify the Apple monitor is not a fault of the Apple monitor, it's simply a recognition that not everyone needs Ferraris.



Apple monitors are for people who don't find 'pretty good' to be good enough. If you're happy with your Dell, no one is begrudging that. It's not the same quality as an Apple 30" LCD.



Of course there are. What the Apple-bashers never seem to get is that Apple doesn't ever attempt to make a product that suits everyone - because that's a great way to get a lousy product. There are lots of other monitors and no one forces anyone to buy Apple's. However, when you look at monitors that match the Apple Cinema Display's quality, the price is pretty competitive.



Better in what way? More ports?

I have used Dell monitors. For general office use, they're adequate. But there's never been a Dell monitor built that can hold a candle to the Cinema Displays.

Of course, you're probably one of those people who will look at a crappy TN display and say it's better just because someone turned the brightness up all the way.

Well stated. Those individuals (and I won't name names, but I believe most on here know who they are) who simply troll on an Apple site with a bias in order to bait people into arguments need to read this very carefully.


fail

Sure, not everyone is going to use all the connections, but if I can get the same quality display for a lower price with more options..... I dont know, maybe I am foolish and need to spend more money on brand alone. And really, is it so absurd to have more connections? How does that affect performance or build quality? How does having more video options or more usb ports or a media card reader make the screen cheap and ******. They are already charging a premium for the thing, might as well go all out.

Now, this is all assuming its the same monitor. If, as you speculate, it's brighter, has a larger color gamut, better light uniformity ect ect, then the purchase of this over the dell is justifiable. But something tells me thats not gonna be the case. All we can do is wait and see what apple sends our way.

1) Apple doesn't need a lot of ports and unnecessary "technology" to sell their products (it's very cheap to add more flash and ports, but doesn't actually benefit Apple). There are no ports other than DVI and Mini-displayport in Apple's line so why would they need HDMI or a dozen other connections that simply clutter up the display and utilize unnecessary parts and costs? To prove they "rule" and have the BEST monitor EVER? I didn't realize this was a competition.

Apple is not selling their displays for anything other than a Mac product. If you're running a Windows based system, buy a different monitor. This is exactly the OP's point, Apple isn't mass marketing their displays, they are for a certain niche. You may not believe that they are worth the price, but to some they are, so why does it bother you so much that you have to insult other people by posting unnecessary comments on an Apple fan site? Go buy a Dell, or EIZO, it's YOUR choice.

2) The car analogy was simply utilized to explain the vast differences in consumer choices. The OP could have used salad dressings, it was a descriptor. Apple is not equivalent to "ferrari's" and Dell's aren't necessarily "Hyundai's", or vice versa. Picking apart the example doesn't negate the point that there are many choices available on the market, if you don't like Apple products, then get another product. It's tantamount to walking into a car showroom for a vehicle that doesn't fit your needs and yelling at the salesmen that the car doesn't meet your needs. Ok, then just move on. :rolleyes:
 
Businesses normally buy on need and if you need Mac Pro like performance you are still getting a very good deal.

Sorry but since the release of the i7/i5 iMacs, the current Mac Pro line is ways overpriced for the performance they give you.

Yes, you can't just buy am i7 iMac, if you rely on fast fast RAID system, because the iMac has a single internal drive and shamefully no eSATA and FW800 is ways to slow for 2010 hard drives.

But to pay $2000, the difference between an i7 iMac and a Mac Pro, for just gaining 3 additional sata harddrive bays is ridiculous.

Cecco
 
Eizo's are certainly not in the price range for many professionals. But some are willing to pay for the best.

You can get eizo's new ev2333w for under £300 ex vat in the UK, not hugely expensive for a decent screen - compare that to apple's cinema line :)



Reading through this thread, people generalize far too much. You don't always get what you pay for in this world.
You can't just assume that a cheap dell screen is rubbish, with a poor looking TN panel while apple's expensive screens are all great value for money for those looking for good colour reproduction.

How often do you read "you can't look directly at the spec sheets of apple products compared to X-manufacturer" on this forum, why doesn't this apply to displays? There's pros and cons to pretty much every display panel technology. The big manufacturers have large ranges, and a product to fit pretty much any use and any budget - every single model by every single brand needs to be looked at on its own.
 
1) Apple doesn't need a lot of ports and unnecessary "technology" to sell their products (it's very cheap to add more flash and ports, but doesn't actually benefit Apple). There are no ports other than DVI and Mini-displayport in Apple's line so why would they need HDMI or a dozen other connections that simply clutter up the display and utilize unnecessary parts and costs? To prove they "rule" and have the BEST monitor EVER? I didn't realize this was a competition.

1)Apple is not selling their displays for anything other than a Mac product. If you're running a Windows based system, buy a different monitor. This is exactly the OP's point, Apple isn't mass marketing their displays, they are for a certain niche. You may not believe that they are worth the price, but to some they are, so why does it bother you so much that you have to insult other people by posting unnecessary comments on an Apple fan site? Go buy a Dell, or EIZO, it's YOUR choice.

2) The car analogy was simply utilized to explain the vast differences in consumer choices. The OP could have used salad dressings, it was a descriptor. Apple is not equivalent to "ferrari's" and Dell's aren't necessarily "Hyundai's", or vice versa. Picking apart the example doesn't negate the point that there are many choices available on the market, if you don't like Apple products, then get another product. It's tantamount to walking into a car showroom for a vehicle that doesn't fit your needs and yelling at the salesmen that the car doesn't meet your needs. Ok, then just move on. :rolleyes:

1) I am going to buy another monitor. No question about that. It suits my needs, even thought I use a mac. My point is that other monitors, outside the mac niche you mention, do a better job than what apple offers. They do so at a better price. I'm sorry that I come out so strong on the issue, the internets has that affect on me :) . I like this forum a lot, it's given me good advice and I just want to participate in it. I'll try to be more level headed in the future.
2)I think taking apart the ferrari argument is important because what most people have done in this thread is compare cheap TN screens to apples IPS. Of course there is a great difference in perfomance and this is reflected in price. But, I'm specifically comparing the 27in dell monitor that is also used in the 27in imacs. Its a great monitor with equal performance to what apple offers and it has more options. Its not like comparing a ferrari and a ford. Its like comparing two ferrari type cars.
I guess I just dont understand why people would settle for the same product but with less options and a (plausibly) higher price. I've been using macs since 2006 and I like them. A lot. But being a fan of mac doesn't (and shoudnt) put them above and away from criticism.
 
Sorry but since the release of the i7/i5 iMacs, the current Mac Pro line is ways overpriced for the performance they give you.

Yes, you can't just buy am i7 iMac, if you rely on fast fast RAID system, because the iMac has a single internal drive and shamefully no eSATA and FW800 is ways to slow for 2010 hard drives.

But to pay $2000, the difference between an i7 iMac and a Mac Pro, for just gaining 3 additional sata harddrive bays is ridiculous.

Cecco

Could someone list the differences between the i5/i7 and the Xeon used in the Mac Pro processors? I'm curious as a few people have stated that the i5-i7 chips are just as good as the Xeon server chips used in the Mac Pro line.
 
Could someone list the differences between the i5/i7 and the Xeon used in the Mac Pro processors? I'm curious as a few people have stated that the i5-i7 chips are just as good as the Xeon server chips used in the Mac Pro line.
Are you interested soley in the processor cores or each platform?
 
The new Mac Pro may very likely come well before June. The story said "by June". I've been told June is the very outside.
With everyone else coming with new computers by the end of this month, I can't imagine Apple being far behind. I just can't.
I, too, am waiting to by the new Mac Pro, so if you can hold out, do.

Here's to hoping! I need the system up and running all my programs and optimized for a May 10th ingestion date of all the footage for my new show. If the updates aren't here by April 20th or so, I just don't think I can cut it any closer than that. I can't deal with a system change once I start the edit process. We will see!
 
Could someone list the differences between the i5/i7 and the Xeon used in the Mac Pro processors? I'm curious as a few people have stated that the i5-i7 chips are just as good as the Xeon server chips used in the Mac Pro line.

Simply put, people say they're 'just as good' because they're basically the same. With xeon chips you have the option of multiple sockets on a motherboard and pay a workstation premium for it. The quad core mac pro is on a single socket board, hence all the complaints about value for money compared to imacs/any desktop machine.
 
Hmmm, I guess cores, might be easier (?) to list. Your call. :) ... and thanks! I could search for it on my own, but... I'm lazy today lol.
The Nehalem cores are all effectively identical.

LGA 1366 and LGA 1156 have two entirely different platform structures though. Xeon only adds in ECC support.
 
Simply put, people say they're 'just as good' because they're basically the same. With xeon chips you have the option of multiple sockets on a motherboard and pay a workstation premium for it. The quad core mac pro is on a single socket board, hence all the complaints about value for money compared to imacs/any desktop machine.

Ah gotcha. As I have an e-core 2008 work station, and I use every core for video editing, I would need to stick with the Xeon work station systems. A four core single processor wouldn't be enough for me.

As such, it would be interesting is Apple adopted an i7 chip to lower the intro price points for their Mac Pro line. Doesn't the high end iMac use the quad core i7 chip?
 
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