Apple Preparing to Launch 27-Inch LED Cinema Display, Mac Pro Update by June?

[deep808blue]

All of Apple's competitors are listing their ship times with the new 6-core as the end of March. I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple announce something around then with immediate availability, rather than fill their store with a product that won't ship for a while.

Thank you Peter for your optimistic projection! I so hope you are correct, or more so, I hope there is a strong consensus for a significant demand amongst us potential Mac Pro buyers to see this a reality.

Right now there are 20 models from 12 manufacturers that are offering <1 week ship times on high-end (pre-built/turnkey) Windows 7 based machines featuring the i7 980x Extreme Edition hexacore/12-thread single socket (3.33Ghz, 3.60 w/ Turbo Boost) 32nm chips, at price points very competetive with the existing dual socket MPs.

http://www.intel.com/consumer/shop/core_i7_extreme.htm

Nevertheless I am a Mac loyalist and would rather have a Mac Pro as my long term investment in a desktop PC. I am dismayed with Apple's sense of timing after seeing how quickly the Windows-based competitors are in step with the "official" Intel rollout date (last Tuesday) of the new process silicon.

 

[MorphingDragon]

I was about to write the same thing until I saw you made the point. After all these years there is still a lot of misconceptions about LCD monitors being all the same and "the spec sheet tells all." Most companies do not advertise they use TN panels for a reason.

The reality is Apple's monitors are expensive, but they are in-line for truly similar monitors. (I don't however like the glossy screen and hope a matte option is offered, even at additional cost, like the MBPs.)

Except I would like to know where he got that the ACDs are IPS. Only the iMacs are a confirmed IPS.

 

[3282868]

Except I would like to know where he got that the ACDs are IPS. Only the iMacs are a definite IPS, and Apple doesnt let up what the ACDs are.



Again, proof. I dont see anywhere that the ACDs are IPS, infact if you look on Apples website, they are TFT.

http://store.apple.com/nz/product/M9179X/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ&mco=MTA4MzU1OTQ
http://store.apple.com/nz/product/MB382X/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ&mco=MTA4MzU1MzE#overview

Right on Apple's site:

The LED Cinema Display looks great from any seat in the house, thanks to a premium display technology called in-plane switching (IPS). IPS gives you a bright picture with excellent color consistency — even if you’re viewing the display from the side.

http://www.apple.com/displays/features.html

In fact, the 23" ACD I have is an S-IPS panel and I thought the 30" was as well, although the 23" is no longer sold at Apple. I am surprised the 30" is TFT (although I have never owned one). My 2004 23" is most definitely S-IPS (confirmed by the then LG panel supplier)

EDIT: I just learned:

Name: Super TFT
Nickname: IPS
Year: 1996
Advantage: Wide viewing angle
Transmittance/ratio: 100/100 Base level

Most panels also support true 8-bit per channel color. These improvements came at the cost of a slower response time, initially about 50 ms. IPS panels were also extremely expensive.

The 30" display is a Super TFT (IPS)

 

[Umbongo]

In fact, the 23" ACD I have is an S-IPS panel and I thought the 30" was as well, although the 23" is no longer sold at Apple. I am surprised the 30" is TFT (although I have never owned one). My 2004 23" is most definitely S-IPS (confirmed by the then LG panel supplier)

TFT is the technology, not a panel type. The 20", 23" and 30" ACDs use S-IPS panels, the 24" uses a newer H-IPS. Samsung for the record use TN on cheaper panels but their own S-PVA technology on more expensive displays, which is as good as IPS for most people, better in a few areas even, though the purists tend to want IPS. S-PVA is also used by Eizo in their high end displays as well as Dell and others.

 

[MorphingDragon]

Right on Apple's site:



http://www.apple.com/displays/features.html

In fact, the 23" ACD I have is an S-IPS panel and I thought the 30" was as well, although the 23" is no longer sold at Apple. I am surprised the 30" is TFT (although I have never owned one). My 2004 23" is most definitely S-IPS (confirmed by the then LG panel supplier)

EDIT: I just learned:



The 30" display is a Super TFT (IPS)

Well then why doesnt Apple say it in their Specs instead going through marketing slop?

I think that Samsung support PVA in its most high end models (Supposedly has better contrast). I don't know why companies avoid LG/Philips technology. As Sony and Panasonic also seem to avoid LG/Philips IPS tech with their own variations of IPS.

 

[3282868]

TFT is the technology, not a panel type. The 20", 23" and 30" ACDs use S-IPS panels, the 24" uses a newer H-IPS. Samsung for the record use TN on cheaper panels but their own S-PVA technology on more expensive displays, which is as good as IPS for most people, better in a few areas even, though the purists tend to want IPS. S-PVA is also used by Eizo in their high end displays as well as Dell and others.

AH thanks I knew the ACD was IPS, and as MorphingDragon stated, why doesn't Apple state that for the 30" display, especially as it's priced in the high end range?

 

[Umbongo]

AH thanks I knew the ACD was IPS, and as MorphingDragon stated, why doesn't Apple state that for the 30" display, especially as it's priced in the high end range?

I don't know, for a while companies were really cryptic over what panels they had. Probably so they could change them if need be, some companies also had multiple panel types for the same models.

 

[satcomer]

Maybe more programs could use all the cores my 200 Mac Pro Dual to the max. Right know only a handful of programs ever stress out my cores. The one that blows my mind is the program HandBrake. Heck even some of Apple's Pro programs don't even stress all my cores.

 

[MorphingDragon]

AH thanks I knew the ACD was IPS, and as MorphingDragon stated, why doesn't Apple state that for the 30" display, especially as it's priced in the high end range?

Well I still wuoldnt pay that amount for the ACD, even for IPS. I'd get a Philips IPS or a Samsung PVA anyway. Unless I really wanted a 30" monitor. THe LED Samsung was just an example of looks, because that was my original point.

 

[3282868]

Well I still wuoldnt pay that amount for the ACD, even for IPS. I'd get a Philips IPS or a Samsung PVA anyway. Unless I really wanted a 30" monitor. THe LED Samsung was just an example of looks, because that was my original point.

$899 ($799 with an education discount) for a 24" IPS LED LCD with camera, 3 USB ports and speakers isn't a bad deal. If the 30" monitor allots for daisy-chaining, has FireWire ports (although I don't use FireWire much if at all these days) coupled with the USB ports, camera and speakers of the current 24" model (and HDMI for those you need it), I would definitely get a 30" system. Personally, I appreciate Apple's mercury and arsenic free products and the use of aluminum in lei of cheap plastic makes a huge difference with regard to e-waste (and also allots for a cooler product as LED panels tend to run hot sometimes).

Arsenic and mercury are industry standard materials used in liquid crystal displays (LCDs). Arsenic is added during the manufacturing of the high performance glass used in LCDs to prevent the formation of defects, and the fluorescent lamps used to illuminate LCDs contain minute amounts of mercury. Apple is on track to introduce our first displays using arsenic-free glass in 2007. A small number of high performance integrated circuits (ICs) will continue to contain a minute amount of arsenic as an element of the semiconductor substrate.

To eliminate mercury in our displays, we need to transition from fluorescent lamps to light-emitting diodes (LEDs) to illuminate the displays. Fortunately, all iPod displays already use LEDs for illumination, and therefore contain no mercury. We plan to introduce our first Macs with LED backlight technology in 2007. Our ability to completely eliminate fluorescent lamps in all of our displays depends on how fast the LCD industry can transition to LED backlighting for larger displays.

Apple plans to completely eliminate the use of arsenic in all of its displays by the end of 2008.

Apple plans to reduce and eventually eliminate the use of mercury by transitioning to LED backlighting for all displays when technically and economically feasible.

Some interesting facts on lead:

Many of the dangerous chemicals we all want to eliminate from electronic products are found in very small amounts, but there’s one toxic substance that some companies still ship by the pound, and that’s the lead contained in their cathode-ray tube (CRT) displays. A typical CRT contains approximately 3 pounds (1.36 kg) of lead. In mid-2006, Apple became the first company in the computer industry to completely eliminate CRTs. The effect has been stunning — our first CRT-based iMac contained 484 grams of lead; our current third-generation LCD-based iMac contains less than 1 gram of lead.

Apple completely eliminated the use of CRTs in mid-2006.

A note of comparison — Dell, Gateway, Hewlett Packard and Lenovo still ship CRT displays today.

A Greener Apple

 

[MorphingDragon]

$899 ($799 with an education discount) for a 24" IPS LED LCD with camera, 3 USB ports and speakers isn't a bad deal. If the 30" monitor allots for daisy-chaining, has FireWire ports (although I don't use FireWire much if at all these days) coupled with the USB ports, camera and speakers of the current 24" model (and HDMI for those you need it), I would definitely get a 30" system. Personally, I appreciate Apple's mercury and arsenic free products and the use of aluminum in lei of cheap plastic makes a huge difference with regard to e-waste (and also allots for a cooler product as LED panels tend to run hot sometimes).

*Starts laughing like Joker

http://store.apple.com/nz-hed/product/M9179X/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ&mco=MTA4MzU1OTQ

http://store.apple.com/nz-hed/product/MB382X/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ&mco=MTA4MzU1MzE

 

[3282868]

*Starts laughing like Joker

http://store.apple.com/nz-hed/product/M9179X/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ&mco=MTA4MzU1OTQ

http://store.apple.com/nz-hed/product/MB382X/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ&mco=MTA4MzU1MzE

Excuse me? Oh you mean the ZN price-points are different?

 

[MorphingDragon]

Excuse me? Oh you mean the ZN price-points are different?

Im sorry but 4 figures for a screen. Thats insane!

 

[3282868]

Im sorry but 4 figures for a screen. Thats insane!

Yeah I agree, in the states they're not as pricey. How do the price points compare to similar systems in NZ?

 

[MorphingDragon]

Yeah I agree, in the states they're not as pricey. How do the price points compare to similar systems in NZ?

Well if you converted NZ to US we pay almost twice as much.

 

[MrBrekke]

is killing me..... freeking 16:9 resolution sticking with my 30" 16:10 format...
probably can't even buy the new MBP since it will have 16:9 as all iMac's have.

getting annoyed

 

[AidenShaw]

Some interesting facts on lead

Useful info - but today is any company still shipping significant
numbers of CRTs?

Also, what is the environmental cost of shipping mercury-laden LCDs
compared to lead-filled CRTs?

When CCFL LCD displays disappear, then a company can claim a "green"
crown. Until then, saying that "we're good because we ship products
with poison X (Hg) instead of poison Y (Pb)" is only part of the story.

 

[3282868]

Useful info - but today is any company still shipping significant
numbers of CRTs?

Also, what is the environmental cost of shipping mercury-laden LCDs
compared to lead-filled CRTs?

When CCFL LCD displays disappear, then a company can claim a "green"
crown. Until then, saying that "we're good because we ship products
with poison X (Hg) instead of poison Y (Pb)" is only part of the story.

Apple doesn't ship mercury in their LCD's (with the exception of the CCFL 30" LCD which is slowly being phased out and not nearly as popular a seller as their iPod, iPhone, and notebook products). With the advent of their LED LCD (and possible new models to ship) they will be even more eco-friendly. Dell laptops weren't (and in some cases still aren't) mercury free until last fall. As I referenced:

Arsenic and mercury are industry standard materials used in liquid crystal displays (LCDs). Arsenic is added during the manufacturing of the high performance glass used in LCDs to prevent the formation of defects, and the fluorescent lamps used to illuminate LCDs contain minute amounts of mercury. Apple is on track to introduce our first displays using arsenic-free glass in 2007. A small number of high performance integrated circuits (ICs) will continue to contain a minute amount of arsenic as an element of the semiconductor substrate.

To eliminate mercury in our displays, we need to transition from fluorescent lamps to light-emitting diodes (LEDs) to illuminate the displays. Fortunately, all iPod displays already use LEDs for illumination, and therefore contain no mercury. We plan to introduce our first Macs with LED backlight technology in 2007 [already done] . Our ability to completely eliminate fluorescent lamps in all of our displays depends on how fast the LCD industry can transition to LED backlighting for larger displays.

Dell laptops to be 100-percent mercury-free by October 2009

However, Dell has been following Apple's lead with regard to environmental awareness and policy, and I give them a lot of credit.

http://content.dell.com/us/en/corp/dell-earth.aspx

http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/08/magazines/fortune/pluggedin_gunther_dellrecycle.fortune/index.htm

HP on the other hand has a ways to go.

Greenpeace Knocks HP's Environmental Record

HP said recently it’s had trouble finding alternatives to two materials - polyvinyl chloride and brominated flame retardants - that are used in the manufacture of some equipment. It pledged to phase them out by 2011 instead. But Greenpeace noted rivals such as Apple, Dell and Lenovo have already removed or significantly reduced use of the chemicals in their products.

In the end, Apple is not merely replacing one chemical/process with another, they are emitting them from their product line. One of the many reasons Apple has been phasing out plastic in lei of aluminum for quite some time now. Aluminum runs cooler, is recyclable and will not produce more pollution through any recycling program as plastic (nor will it be sitting in landfill for decades as plastic, if not for eternity). Plastic is horrible to the environment.

 

[matticus008]

I dont get the fascination with Apples ACD monitors. Yea they're nice looking, but Samsung has some very vice looking screens that a far better quality and are also LED.

Yeah, no they don't. Samsung doesn't sell anything that competes with Cinema Displays.

Except I would like to know where he got that the ACDs are IPS. Only the iMacs are a confirmed IPS.

The aluminum cinema displays have been IPS from day one (as were most of the acrylic ones). The only reason that the iMac made a point of highlighting that was because it was a change from previous models.

Samsung for the record use TN on cheaper panels but their own S-PVA technology on more expensive displays, which is as good as IPS for most people, better in a few areas even, though the purists tend to want IPS. S-PVA is also used by Eizo in their high end displays as well as Dell and others.

I'm not aware of any "high end" display that uses any form of PVA, nor is PVA a competitor to IPS for anyone who actually needs a high-end monitor.

For consumers, absolutely, PVA offers many improvements over TN for a much smaller price tag than IPS, so it's a clear winner.

Well I still wuoldnt pay that amount for the ACD, even for IPS. I'd get a Philips IPS or a Samsung PVA anyway.

If you want to best the 30" ACD, you need to go HP (NZ$4044 for the DreamColor) or Eizo (NZ$3370 for a 27").

*Starts laughing like Joker

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/nz/en/sm/WF05a/382087-382087-64283-3884471-3884471-3648397.html

http://www.photowarehouse.co.nz/eizo/

Welcome to the world of actual high-end displays. Still laughing?

Well if you converted NZ to US we pay almost twice as much.

I call shenanigans. The 30" ACD is currently the equivalent of ~US$2010 including GST. Last time I was in New Zealand, GST was 12.5%. That's $250.

So in fact, the end price of ~US$1760 is about $40 less than the US price.

 

[Ljohnson72]

I'll keep my extra 3" of real estate

 

[PeterQVenkman]

Thank you Peter for your optimistic projection! I so hope you are correct, or more so, I hope there is a strong consensus for a significant demand amongst us potential Mac Pro buyers to see this a reality.

Right now there are 20 models from 12 manufacturers that are offering <1 week ship times on high-end (pre-built/turnkey) Windows 7 based machines featuring the i7 980x Extreme Edition hexacore/12-thread single socket (3.33Ghz, 3.60 w/ Turbo Boost) 32nm chips, at price points very competetive with the existing dual socket MPs.

http://www.intel.com/consumer/shop/core_i7_extreme.htm

Nevertheless I am a Mac loyalist and would rather have a Mac Pro as my long term investment in a desktop PC. I am dismayed with Apple's sense of timing after seeing how quickly the Windows-based competitors are in step with the "official" Intel rollout date (last Tuesday) of the new process silicon.

Go here:
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/CyberPower_X58_Configurator

And add the core Core i7-980X without adding anything else.

$1529. That's a lot of speed for very little money.

I hope Apple can come close to that. But remember - Apple doesn't tell people what's coming down the pipe when they have an existing line to sell. When Apple announced the new iMac 27 inch, the core i7 wasn't available immediately, but you could still get the 27 incher with a core 2 duo, and the rest of the iMac line was completely different. That's as close to announcing something as "coming soon" as Apple gets.

We'll just have a wait a bit longer.

 

[xbjllb]

Bonehead statement number two. Your microwave and toaster are, in fact computers. If it were left up to narrow minded thinkers such as yourself, we would all still be using stone tools. Please try, if you're capable to expand your vision. Your refrigerator, alarm clock, and many other systems in your house are computers. And the simpleton thinking that something has to look like a box sitting on the floor, with cables running to an LCD/LED (CRT?) monitor, or be a hinged piece of plastic or metal with a keyboard on it in order to be a computer just goes to illustrate how little you "get it."

My iPhone is a computer. So is my Blackberry.

Look, Genius. Just because your g/f's vibrator HAS a computer chip in it doesn't make it a computer. And it won't ever be a computer. Even if it has a flashy window with icons to select the various speeds.

Computers have multitasked since the Amiga in 1984. Anything that doesn't multitask cannot be called a proper computer in 2010. Time machines don't exist.

Which is not to say the iPhone will ever grow up to BE a computer, either.

That's why they invented the bonehead term "SMART phone" in the first place.

Now maybe you'll get it.

 

[gctwnl]

Extremely overdue, and one missing product

The new MacPros are extremely overdue. June?

Besides, what is missing is a Mac Midi. Somthing with the power of the high end iMac, but without the screen.

Maybe it is time to resurrect the Cube, Steve?

G

 

[MorphingDragon]

I call shenanigans. The 30" ACD is currently the equivalent of ~US$2010 including GST. Last time I was in New Zealand, GST was 12.5%. That's $250.

I think youre doing something wrong with your conversions, and I said looks and better quality. Not tech specs. You can have some really crappy high end tech (27" iMac just off the top of my head) and some really reliable low end stuff. (Like audo equipment that Philips touches ^_^)

Theres no point taking out GST, we have to pay it whatver it says on the website.

(US)$1,799.00 US 30" ACD http://store.apple.com/us/product/M9179LL/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ&mco=MTA4MzU1OTQ

(NZ)$3,198.00 NZ 30" ACD ->(US) $2,263.86 http://store.apple.com/nz/product/M9179X/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ&mco=MTA4MzU1OTQ

That is around 1>x for the same product. It gets worse for the actual computers.

EDIT:

You dont see any highend screens using PVA because Samsung market it as a technology for TV screens.

Look, Genius. Just because your g/f's vibrator HAS a computer chip in it doesn't make it a computer. And it won't ever be a computer. Even if it has a flashy window with icons to select the various speeds.

Computers have multitasked since the Amiga in 1984. Anything that doesn't multitask cannot be called a proper computer in 2010. Time machines don't exist.

Which is not to say the iPhone will ever grow up to BE a computer, either.

That's why they invented the bonehead term "SMART phone" in the first place.

Now maybe you'll get it.

Computer:

An electronic device capable of stroing and processing information, usually in Binary Format.

Sorry dude, youre wrong.

 

[matticus008]

I think youre doing something wrong with your conversions, and I said looks and better quality. Not tech specs.

We'll get to the conversions, but as to quality, again, nothing Samsung sells through its own monitor division is in the same league as a Cinema Display or other professional-quality products. Certainly not in image quality or hardware performance, nor in build quality.

(US)$1,799.00 US 30" ACD http://store.apple.com/us/product/M9179LL/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ&mco=MTA4MzU1OTQ

(NZ)$3,198.00 NZ 30" ACD ->(US) $2,263.86 http://store.apple.com/nz/product/M9179X/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ&mco=MTA4MzU1OTQ

That is around 1.5-2x for the same product.

A. You previously linked a store price of NZ$2849, which I used for my earlier post (though I did not notice until now that you were referencing an Education store, so I didn't calculate US price based on the educational discount--so yes, those numbers are off. The NZ educational pricing in fact carries a US$94 premium [~6%] over the US.)

NZ$3198 incl. GST is [NZ$2842/unit price + NZ$356/vat]

NZ$2842=US$2012

2012-1799=US$213 price difference

In other words, you are paying a premium of less than 12%. Not anywhere near 1.5-2x the price.

Theres no point taking out GST, we have to pay it whatver it says on the website.

And in the US, we have to pay 7-12% more than it says on the website in 48 states. Your local tax is imposed on you just like ours, but unlike ours, yours is built into the price, artificially inflating it.

EDIT:

You dont see any highend screens using PVA because Samsung market it as a technology for TV screens.

No, it's because PVA is inferior to IPS for color and viewing angle.