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Apple Preparing to Launch 27-Inch LED Cinema Display, Mac Pro Update by June?
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And voila, the long awaited xMac (or whatever people called it) was born. Basically a mac pro without the mac pro price tag?
Yes the imac does, hence the comparisons between it and the quad core mac pro.
An i7 chip, in a mac pro's 'desktop' case, with standard io, slots,etcetc - it would be the same as every other bargain basement machine on the market. I assume it would either be priced very low to be competitive (and sell loads? cannibalising both imac/mac pro sales?) or be priced high, selling none and unleashing the fury of the 'value for money' brigade.
WOW The differences between the 8 and 4 core Mac Pro is impressive.
Now that the iMac's use a desktop processor (aside from the entry level models), will Apple return to marketing the Mac Pro as they had with the PowerMac's as an alternative to an all in one system with a more competitive price point? Meaning, will they make a desktop mid tower? From their headstrong stance and position, I doubt it, but who knows...
Hmmm, seems a no win scenario for Apple
Hmmm, seems a no win scenario for Apple
I agree, apart from osx' market share?
I couldn't care less about apple as a company - but I'd like to see osx on many more machines, and be able to recommend them (with a straight face) to all the 'average consumers' that ask me for advice.
Would be interesting. My only concern would be the possibility that OS X would become another Windows type OS; the more popular it becomes the more likely viruses and other issues may increase. Plus writing code for millions of various hardware components and combinations makes for a daunting task.
Yeah the leap from 4 to 8 is BIG. But I've also read that the software side is lagging behind. A lot of programs aren't 64bit or dont use the extra cores. Final Cut has gotten a lot of heat on this issue. But still, its an impressive system, the 8 core mac pro and i7 imac are worth their price. It will be interesting to see what apple does to the mac pro on the next refresh, I hope is something more than just faster, better, more core chips.
Yeah, the midsize tower is never happening in my opinion. If it does the mac mini has to go down in price or not exist. If it ever comes to be I dont think a midsize tower would eat away at the imac line, all in one and tower are to different markets in my opinion. But I cant see the mini surviving when you can get the same system at a more versatile form factor.
edit: Also, I don't think Apple would ever offer its OS outside of its hardware. OSX works very well and is optimized for specific hardware, and its really the main thing that pushes apple's hardware. No way they are gonna lose that.
Yeah, the midsize tower is never happening in my opinion. If it does the mac mini has to go down in price or not exist. If it ever comes to be I dont think a midsize tower would eat away at the imac line, all in one and tower are to different markets in my opinion. But I cant see the mini surviving when you can get the same system at a more versatile form factor.
edit: Also, I don't think Apple would ever offer its OS outside of its hardware. OSX works very well and is optimized for specific hardware, and its really the main thing that pushes apple's hardware. No way they are gonna lose that.
Windows is a perfectly good OS nowadays, and anyways - The more popular osx becomes the more effort they can/could/should/whatever put into making it more secure/reliable/'good'.
I didn't mean allowing osx to run on any x86 machine, I meant the huge market share increase could come from apple releasing a cheap desktop computer, the same as any other manufacturer. One that has more expandability and/or isn't price/performance restricted on thermal/aesthetics/'worrying about cannibalization of other models'.
Also, I doubt 'writing code for millions of hardware components' is that daunting - osx works on so many non-apple machines already with little to no fiddling, and obscure/specialist peripherals would obviously have the manufactures backing to work on a new 'major' os.
I think that the Mac Pro market would respond well to a single socket i7 option for an entry price of ~$1699-1999. Then provide the dual socket Xeon option for the true professionals that need 8-12 cores.
In my opinion this is what the majority of people looking at a new MP want! This way the enthusiast get dual optical drives, 4 HDDs, plenty of RAM slots, and some PCI slots without the expense of the "unneeded" xeon chip. And the people that do need the xeon chip are taken care of too. Does a pro who needs 12 cores really care if there is a Single Socket i7 version? I don't think so.
Come on Apple! Let's see it!
edit: oh and the whole "the MP can't be less than the iMac....." blah blah blah doesn't work for me because with the MP for the same ~$ you don't get a 27 inch screen. How much does that cost??? Come on!
In my opinion this is what the majority of people looking at a new MP want! This way the enthusiast get dual optical drives, 4 HDDs, plenty of RAM slots, and some PCI slots without the expense of the "unneeded" xeon chip. And the people that do need the xeon chip are taken care of too. Does a pro who needs 12 cores really care if there is a Single Socket i7 version? I don't think so.
Come on Apple! Let's see it!
edit: oh and the whole "the MP can't be less than the iMac....." blah blah blah doesn't work for me because with the MP for the same ~$ you don't get a 27 inch screen. How much does that cost??? Come on!
Ah. Got it. Yeah I agree Windows 7 is a huge step up for Microsoft, I actually like using it when I have to on my Mac Pro. I can't imagine that writing code for Microsoft isn't daunting as they have to take into account the many differing systems that would run the OS and the many differing conflicts and issues that may arise from drivers and other programs.
OS X does need a lot of tweaking for an OSX86 system. I've built a couple, a few p45 and many p55 systems, and finding the right kernels for every component and the right mach_kernel to initially run can be frustrating, especially if you're diving into without doing the research. It is better to find a list of compatible system components through the osx86 project and build a system from other users' general experiences (seems gigabyte is the best motherboard). Then you have to pray that the next 10.x.x update doesn't break all the kernels, etc. In the end, unless you're streamlining a system and have a good structure in place, the time and effort put into building a hackint0sh may not be worth the money saved to ensure a fine tuned system for the years to come, although the learning experience is great.
I think that the Mac Pro market would respond well to a single socket i7 option for an entry price of ~$1699-1999. Then provide the dual socket Xeon option for the true professionals that need 8-12 cores.
In my opinion this is what the majority of people looking at a new MP want! This way the enthusiast get dual optical drives, 4 HDDs, plenty of RAM slots, and some PCI slots without the expense of the "unneeded" xeon chip. And the people that do need the xeon chip are taken care of too. Does a pro who needs 12 cores really care if there is a Single Socket i7 version? I don't think so.
Come on Apple! Let's see it!
edit: oh and the whole "the MP can't be less than the iMac....." blah blah blah doesn't work for me because with the MP for the same ~$ you don't get a 27 inch screen. How much does that cost??? Come on!
The issue has nothing to do with the Xeon processors used as they cost the same as the socket 1366 Core i7 line at the same speeds. The issue is Apple pricing it in relation to their product line rather than against the market. Systems with the same performance and better features using Xeon processors can be purchased for half the price.
I think most people's frustration with windows in the past has been from poor quality 3rd party drivers. It still continues to this day, but the os is both more resilient to them and more 'automatic' for the average user so that it's not a problem.
OSX will run on pretty much any modern intel machine with very little tweaking, the kernel itself remains completely untouched. It's easy enough to get it running on obscure hardware, and with a modified kernel will run on amd based machines. kext drivers for the 'millions of hardware configurations' you mentioned are plentiful, and range from 'completely 100% working and stable' to 'slightly dodgy, come back in a few weeks'. Both kernels and kexts are developed by average guys, without apples source code and expertise, and often taking a lot of the 'hard work' off other *nix os', again developed by average guys with or without hardware spec sheets. If it was allowed (not that I think it'll happen), I'm sure it would be completely different.
I agree that it's not 100% foolproof and does require research. Obviously this is the case, apple have designed their os to run solely on their hardware, and release updates trying to keep it that way (even if it's just an irritation). Yeah, it's a great learning experience - I think anyone that has had the satisfaction of doing it would agree. It's fun and easy to do (if you can spare a couple of hours reading), to get a machine that fits you, and to learn far more about the OS than you typically would just buying one.
How hard is it for Apple to develop a non-glossy LED display, I guess might as well purchase the 30 inch cinema display well it's still available because the 30" might be EOL by June
I admit to being okay with the current status quo as it applies to desktop monitors. I'm not a professional who does not need perfectly accurate colors and I prefer the "pop" Apple's glossy displays offer. And as expensive as they are, if they were fully color-calibrated and such, they'd be even more expensive.
And because those other companies are available with professional product, if you are someone who needs those features, they are available to you. Okay, maybe it doesn't have the Apple logo on the front and maybe it doesn't match the aesthetics of your Apple system, but as a professional, those should rank really low.
Yes, in a perfect world Apple would offer both an expensive "consumer" monitor and a more-expensive "professional" monitor, but I expect most people would complain about the price of the "pro" monitor compared to competitors like Eizo and NEC and such, driven in part because Apple's production volumes are lower so they don't get the economies of scale.
So Apple concentrates on the "consumer" side and allows the "professionals" to go third-party for the quality and/or features they need and save money, doing it.
Interesting? So you're saying that the i7 used in the iMac is the same price as the Hexacore xeon announced for the 2010 MP? Sounds off to me but if you say so.
No that isn't what I mean. There are 3 price points for high-end desktop Intel processors: $284, $562 and $999. Apple use all three on the single processor Mac Pro and there are Core i7 versions at the same price, they just don't support ECC, so if Apple were to use Core i7 versions they wouldn't reduce the cost.
The Core i7 processor found in the iMac is a $284 processor, the 6 core processor that just was released is a $999 one.
Why do you feel obligated to buy an Apple branded monitor?
There are great alternatives you may be ignoring.
I see. I was thinking that an i7 3.0 or 3.33Ghz quadcore, would be less $$ than a xeon 3.0 or 3.33 hexacore...
You aren't the only one
This confusion has been around since the 2009 Mac Pros launched. Intel's processor line and naming conventions are messy and confusing without adding how Apple do things.
I admit to being okay with the current status quo as it applies to desktop monitors. I'm not a professional who does not need perfectly accurate colors and I prefer the "pop" Apple's glossy displays offer. And as expensive as they are, if they were fully color-calibrated and such, they'd be even more expensive.
And because those other companies are available with professional product, if you are someone who needs those features, they are available to you. Okay, maybe it doesn't have the Apple logo on the front and maybe it doesn't match the aesthetics of your Apple system, but as a professional, those should rank really low.
Yes, in a perfect world Apple would offer both an expensive "consumer" monitor and a more-expensive "professional" monitor, but I expect most people would complain about the price of the "pro" monitor compared to competitors like Eizo and NEC and such, driven in part because Apple's production volumes are lower so they don't get the economies of scale.
So Apple concentrates on the "consumer" side and allows the "professionals" to go third-party for the quality and/or features they need and save money, doing it.
You summed it up very well. Any pro looking for color accurate panels should be looking elsewhere... should have been doing that about 3 or more years ago.
Most shooters I know have Nec monitors or LaCie monitors with color calibrators and what not. Most video pros I know and work with have Apple displays because they are cute, and grade off of a broadcast monitor.
Then there are those with uber cash that can afford getting one of those 14bit monitors from HP. I don't know anyone, but I am sure they exist.
Hp has a 30-bit display now:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/382087-382087-64283-72270-3884471-3648397.html
LONG overdue indeed!!
As a LONG time Mac fanatic, I whole heartedly shout agreement with this person's commentary. I've been saving up for a maxed-out Mac Pro system for the last 5 months. Although Nehalem is a fantastic architecture, my eyes lit up like Christmas come early and began salivating when I read about the upcoming 32nm process versions (hexacore Gulftown) as being the absolute sweetest sweet spot for a pending Mac Pro purchase. Actually, I was committed to purchase a high end version of the i7 27" iMac but was thoroughly dismayed by the lack of availability.
I live in Hawaii and there was a 2-week minimum wait time to buy a 27" iMac i7 directly, and NONE of the local computer vendors (especially Best Buy, the nearest source of computer equipment to my location) even planned to stock any 27" iMacs EXCEPT the Core 2 Duo low-end model, which was "special order" only and had a longer wait time than buying directly from the Apple store.
Likewise, I've been impatient with Apple's slow adoption of high end components in their "flagship" models. Retailers like Best Buy apparently carry the full Mac line, but only the lowest end "stripper" baseline config models.
I've been discontent with the most recent configuration of the MBP laptop offerings, and ran out of patience waiting for a major redesign of these as well.
Then a crisis occurred (loss/theft of my 2006 17" MBP laptop) and I needed a replacement Mac immediately. The buyer's guide here seemed to red light most all purchases and I was really disappointed to see the suprisingly long accumulated "days since refresh" figures almost across the board in the Buyer's Guide on this site. The only enthusiastic "buy now" recommendation was for the Mac Mini. which I had never previously considered. (right around Christmas).
Then I did something radical and unexpected. Walked into Best Buy with plastic in hand ready to take home ANY 27" iMac I could find. There were NONE, absolutely NO availability. So I pulled the trigger on a Mac Mini (core 2 duo) and was thoroughly pleased and amazed with the tiny little box's real world performance. This proved a wonderful and unexpectedly satisfying purchase.
I knew I had my heart set on an i7 platform Mac as a long term investment, so I shifted my plan (for a high end desktop) from a 27" iMac to wait for a Mac Pro with a 32nm silicon based Intel chip. I was drooling at the rumor that Apple might introduce a Gulftown proc in sync with the Intel official rollout of the i7 980x this last tuesday, but my heart sank when I saw nothing on the radar screen until this thread. JUNE ?!?!?!?
With all the extensive (excessive) hype about the iPad (yes, I would like one too, but I would benefit most from the 3G version, which is (again) frustratingly delayed behind the initial non-3G rollout), I fear the incentive to rush a Mac Pro upgrade is low on the totem pole as a priority for Apple in light of all the furor over iPad pre-sales.
So I'm left hoping beyond hope that Apple suprises us all with an April or even early May announcement of a processor upgrade for the Mac Pro, but I for one have been wanting to pull the trigger on a loaded high end desktop for far too long now. As I said before, Nehalem is a great platform, but for a substantial amount of dollars invested on a long term purchase, my intuition tells me the "tock" in Intel's tick-tock update path is NOW with the emergence of the 32nm process chips, and I'm determined to hold out. I'm just left feeling very frustrated that a disproportionate amount of emphasis is going towards the iPad rollout.
My solace comes from the still-amazing performace/value from my Mac Mini that I am sincerely enjoying the the meantime.
PS edit: At the time of purchasing my Mac Mini, I also made the purchase of 2 Samsung SyncMaster XL2370 LED displays, which the Mac Mini runs beautifully (in extended desktop mode right out of the little box) despite what I thought was a meager (on spec) built-in / fixed video display subsystem from the Mini. Staggering performance per dollar, 23" of gorgeous LED screen real estate, full HD 1080p resolution, HDMI and DVI-in, 15 million:1 dynamic contrast ratio, 2ms response time. Brilliant eye-popping color and contrast, for under $300! A very strong endorsement for those seeking a high performance per dollar value in an LED display. Years ago I bought two of Dell's 24" high-end UltraSharp LCD panels (at the time heavily discounted to $750 ea., retail was around $1500 ea. or so IIRC), and these Samsungs offer strikingly superior image quality.
As a LONG time Mac fanatic, I whole heartedly shout agreement with this person's commentary. I've been saving up for a maxed-out Mac Pro system for the last 5 months. Although Nehalem is a fantastic architecture, my eyes lit up like Christmas come early and began salivating when I read about the upcoming 32nm process versions (hexacore Gulftown) as being the absolute sweetest sweet spot for a pending Mac Pro purchase. Actually, I was committed to purchase a high end version of the i7 27" iMac but was thoroughly dismayed by the lack of availability.
I live in Hawaii and there was a 2-week minimum wait time to buy a 27" iMac i7 directly, and NONE of the local computer vendors (especially Best Buy, the nearest source of computer equipment to my location) even planned to stock any 27" iMacs EXCEPT the Core 2 Duo low-end model, which was "special order" only and had a longer wait time than buying directly from the Apple store.
Likewise, I've been impatient with Apple's slow adoption of high end components in their "flagship" models. Retailers like Best Buy apparently carry the full Mac line, but only the lowest end "stripper" baseline config models.
I've been discontent with the most recent configuration of the MBP laptop offerings, and ran out of patience waiting for a major redesign of these as well.
Then a crisis occurred (loss/theft of my 2006 17" MBP laptop) and I needed a replacement Mac immediately. The buyer's guide here seemed to red light most all purchases and I was really disappointed to see the suprisingly long accumulated "days since refresh" figures almost across the board in the Buyer's Guide on this site. The only enthusiastic "buy now" recommendation was for the Mac Mini. which I had never previously considered. (right around Christmas).
Then I did something radical and unexpected. Walked into Best Buy with plastic in hand ready to take home ANY 27" iMac I could find. There were NONE, absolutely NO availability. So I pulled the trigger on a Mac Mini (core 2 duo) and was thoroughly pleased and amazed with the tiny little box's real world performance. This proved a wonderful and unexpectedly satisfying purchase.
I knew I had my heart set on an i7 platform Mac as a long term investment, so I shifted my plan (for a high end desktop) from a 27" iMac to wait for a Mac Pro with a 32nm silicon based Intel chip. I was drooling at the rumor that Apple might introduce a Gulftown proc in sync with the Intel official rollout of the i7 980x this last tuesday, but my heart sank when I saw nothing on the radar screen until this thread. JUNE ?!?!?!?
With all the extensive (excessive) hype about the iPad (yes, I would like one too, but I would benefit most from the 3G version, which is (again) frustratingly delayed behind the initial non-3G rollout), I fear the incentive to rush a Mac Pro upgrade is low on the totem pole as a priority for Apple in light of all the furor over iPad pre-sales.
So I'm left hoping beyond hope that Apple suprises us all with an April or even early May announcement of a processor upgrade for the Mac Pro, but I for one have been wanting to pull the trigger on a loaded high end desktop for far too long now. As I said before, Nehalem is a great platform, but for a substantial amount of dollars invested on a long term purchase, my intuition tells me the "tock" in Intel's tick-tock update path is NOW with the emergence of the 32nm process chips, and I'm determined to hold out. I'm just left feeling very frustrated that a disproportionate amount of emphasis is going towards the iPad rollout.
My solace comes from the still-amazing performace/value from my Mac Mini that I am sincerely enjoying the the meantime.
PS edit: At the time of purchasing my Mac Mini, I also made the purchase of 2 Samsung SyncMaster XL2370 LED displays, which the Mac Mini runs beautifully (in extended desktop mode right out of the little box) despite what I thought was a meager (on spec) built-in / fixed video display subsystem from the Mini. Staggering performance per dollar, 23" of gorgeous LED screen real estate, full HD 1080p resolution, HDMI and DVI-in, 15 million:1 dynamic contrast ratio, 2ms response time. Brilliant eye-popping color and contrast, for under $300! A very strong endorsement for those seeking a high performance per dollar value in an LED display. Years ago I bought two of Dell's 24" high-end UltraSharp LCD panels (at the time heavily discounted to $750 ea., retail was around $1500 ea. or so IIRC), and these Samsungs offer strikingly superior image quality.
All of Apple's competitors are listing their ship times with the new 6-core as the end of March. I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple announce something around then with immediate availability, rather than fill their store with a product that won't ship for a while.
I dont get the fascination with Apples ACD monitors. Yea they're nice looking, but Samsung has some very vice looking screens that a far better quality and are also LED.
http://www.samsung.com/nz/consumer/...XY/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&tab=features
Now if Apple blows our mind at a nice pricing point including 'apple tax' then ill happily take the things I said back. But I would rather see that the graphics cards in the Mac Pros have more than one mini DPs on them. So you could use 2 LED ACDs at once without an extra GPU.
+1, see my previous post as well
Oh, I'm sure that *LTD* would come up with a post about
how the 450 MHz G4 emitted less EMR than the 2.8 GHz i7, and there-
fore was a better, greener choice.