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"Apple does not allow apps to be installed on iOS devices outside of the ‌App Store‌ and there are no alternate app store options that are available."

Not exactly. Businesses can deploy internally-developed apps to their employees, if they have an Apple Developer Enterprise Program membership.

That still have to be reviewed by Apple and can be rejected. Still have to have permissions. The only difference is that those apps don't appear in the general app store and appear in something like Intune that also has to have Apple approval and review.
 
[...]

I'm grown. I don't need Apple deciding what is and is not appropriate apps and content for me. Google policies apps, but give me the option to side load if I so desire. Apple's control freak nature and predatory practices absolutely deserve to be called out. They packaged this as privacy concerns which isn't really their issue, it's losing app store revenue and that 30% cut they take.[...]
Absolutely. Vote with your wallet, that's the only way (other than governmental interference) to get a company to change. Don't want no nanny babysitter, android awaits. And Apple deserves the 30%, they created the entire market segment. Those who don't think Apple isn't entitled to it's fees, the same logic could apply to ones job raises and bonuses.
 
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Exactly. It’s easy to imagine different states taking different approaches to tech company regulation and Apple (or any tech company) ending up in a position where it cannot comply with the laws of all states at once.

This is typical and has precedent. The reality is a company won't work around the regulations of one state and offer different policies or capabilities in another.

Look at labor laws for example. California has the most strict labor standards out of all 50 states. If you work for a company that operates in more than 1 state, I can guarantee you all standards are aligned to meet California's and not the state the company is based out of. This is because if you can meet the strictest standard, you're covered in the 49 other states and its far cheaper to maybe be more generous with breaks and various regulations in California than it is to have to work on multiple sets of compliance. (There are very few Federal labor laws as well. States have domain in setting their own laws unless a Federal law trumps the state law.)

Many states have simply mirrored cali on labor regs, and that's what would happen here too. While this is going on a a state level, the Federal Government has this high on their radar at a rare bipartisan level.
 
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While there is a lot of puffed chests about this at this point in time, I doubt this will go anywhere meaningful, but that is just my opinion. Based on what's happening in MR, users don't really seem to be asking for this en masse. (Yes there is the vocal majority that make it seem like all users are spoken for but its' not really the case)
 
One again taking it out of context. This is about the $$$.
One of the arguments Apple and walled App Store supporters are using as a rebuttal is security and privacy. This is being used in a "worst case the sky is falling" scenario aka "fear mongering".

I respect your right to call out issues you perceive however I will call you out when you deliberately use it out of context to spread fear.
Just take a look at the Android and PC malware stats. It’s not fear mongering.

 
Just take a look at the Android and PC malware stats. It’s not fear mongering.


You deliberately ignored what I posted. This is getting to be your modus operandi.
Pick and choose and take out of context.

By the way, if that was an independent review it would carry more weight.

Stock Android has the bootloader locked and sideloading is turned off.
 
SMH. Yeah, that's not how any of that really works. You make it sound like this requires Apple to have massive resources to deliver this.

It's software driven. If I wanted to open my own home grown online store, the payment processing software automatically knows tax rates and things for various countries. So does tax/accounting software.

Apple has to do this with or without an app store to sell hardware and accessories in those countries. Its all one system on the back end.

99% of all these functions are software driven. Even an app for mom and pop businesses like QuickBooks offers international features.

The invention of real time currency conversion 20 some years ago was also a boon.

Granted much is software driven. But the tax withholding and report is not generally a service provided by basic payment processing - and definitely not at the 2-4% rate people keep spouting as the "correct" fees for the App Store to charge. And the reporting provides developer with an increased compliance assurance. The large corporations have groups for this sure, but most of the developers on the App Store of smaller shops who are not as well versed in all the required filing and holdback provisions across all possible jurisdictions. That compliance and tax service alone is worth quite a bit.

The benefit of the App Store is as much in the business support as in the bits and bytes of processing a download or a payment.

I am not saying the fees are where they should be. That is a separate conversation. Is it necessarily unlimited 30%? Perhaps not. Is it more than 5 to even 10%? Sure it is. I could even see argument for tiered fees by volume with an annual cap. There are several answers to the fees question, but the App Store is more than a file server, a credit charge processor, and a few CPU's.

[ edit : typo ]
 
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You deliberately ignored what I posted. This is getting to be your modus operandi.
Pick and choose and take out of context.

By the way, if that was an independent review it would carry more weight.

Stock Android has the bootloader locked and sideloading is turned off.
You said I am just fear mongering, so I explain why I am not.

AV-Test: An independent IT Security Institute. So yeah not independent how?

You think there is no malware issue AT ALL on Windows? Why we have a problem when people say "Windows is operating just fine, why can't iOS?" Windows is NOT operating just fine. Take a look. Most recently CDPR got hacked. Hospitals got ransomware as much as a few weeks ago.

And if Epic gets their store which purchases exclusives we would need to toggle side loading on for iOS - thus opening up security.

No, I take offense that you say I am just fear mongering. Just look at Windows. Android. There ARE malware issues on these platforms. And it is GROWING on Windows.
 
It could be that some software has to operate in a privileged mode for whatever reason. I'm sure that Apple makes design decisions such that these decisions would affect the operation of the software in the best of the possibility of ways.
Nope. Whether the software is in a VPN or not it will fucntion exactly the same. Just like software work whether on WiFi or cellular. In doing so Apple created a real privacy issue for many and did so silently which is even worse.
 
Nope. Whether the software is in a VPN or not it will fucntion exactly the same. Just like software work whether on WiFi or cellular. In doing so Apple created a real privacy issue for many and did so silently which is even worse.
Ok. So they have one issue on the books, is what you are saying. Going back to the bigger picture, they are headed in the right direction even though every nook and cranny of every system on every device is not yet there.
 
It is not "hosting and payment processing." As others have pointed out it is hosting with global distribution capability, payment processing in local currency, tax withholding and reporting at the local level, compliance assurance, and a measure of legal protections. To call it nothing more that a file server and a chip reader is being intentionally deceitful - or ignorant.

The likes of Netflix and Spotify can do all of that themselves.

In fact any business which has an app on the App Store and also does business elsewhere will have to do all that themselves for their non iOS business.

It's providing a 'value' that many don't need, a bit like a mob protection racket.
 
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You said I am just fear mongering, so I explain why I am not.

AV-Test: An independent IT Security Institute. So yeah not independent how?

You think there is no malware issue AT ALL on Windows? Why we have a problem when people say "Windows is operating just fine, why can't iOS?" Windows is NOT operating just fine. Take a look. Most recently CDPR got hacked. Hospitals got ransomware as much as a few weeks ago.

And if Epic gets their store which purchases exclusives we would need to toggle side loading on for iOS - thus opening up security.

No, I take offense that you say I am just fear mongering. Just look at Windows. Android. There ARE malware issues on these platforms. And it is GROWING on Windows.

LMAO!!!! Moving the goal posts now are we .... Come on man! ;)
You just can't can't seem to help yourself. More $$$$!! But the security!! But you WILL BE infected!!! But Malware exists for those other platforms!!! But .... :rolleyes:

Can we get back to the original topic?
 
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If only Apple charge 15% for app purchases and 10% for in app purchases and suscriptions on third party apps, this problem wouldnt even exist, because developers wouldnt complain!
Apple charges 15% for app purchases and in-app purchases for all developers who gross less than $1M/ year. Apple allows subscription services to operate outside the App Store without paying any fees if their services are platform agnostic. This is how you can subscribe to Netflix or Hulu or Rosetta on the web or on another platform and just download the free app on the App Store to use the service. They require developers who gross over $1M/ year to offer equivalent purchase or subscription options within their apps in order to be on the App Store. FWIW, Google has these same in-app purchase policies, but they’re still charging 30% to everybody. While Android allows itself to be unlocked and certain types of software to be side loaded, it’s actually a very small percentage of users who do this. Any serious developer with real products and proper income stream from those app products will have have them in the Play Store. Once again, the Play Store offers mostly the same benefits to developers as Apple’s App Store.
 
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There is quite a difference between side-loading and alternate app stores that would have their own app review processes, as is what would be the likely outcome of this.
You do understand that if anyone can install software then there will be direct installs from reputable developers and app stores but also sources and stores which will let you sell/distribute/install anything you want (we shouldn’t actually call that side loading anymore). Compared to these Cydia is/was a premium store. Then again Cydia is for nerds who actually know what they are doing. IMHO, from consumer standpoint it would be idiotic move to allow installs from third party sources. Software could be maybe 10%-15% cheaper but then you would have to run security software which on top of the financial burden would play havoc on battery life and performance.
 
They require developers who gross over $1M/ year to offer equivalent purchase or subscription options within their apps in order to be on the App Store.
That's not entirely true... A whole category of "reader" apps which oddly includes video streaming services like Netflix are exempt from that. Try downloading the Netflix or Spotify apps on a new device and see if you can figure out how to sign up for a new account directly from your iPhone or iPad 😏

This is ultimately what the whole "Hey" email app controversy was about, since Netflix and Spotify could get away with offering impervious login screens that didn't work unless you signed up for an account and subscribed elsewhere (and they weren't even allowed to tell you where that "elsewhere" was), yet for some reason "Hey" didn't qualify for the same exemption because it was an email app and not a "reader" app, so Apple insisted that it offer in-app purchases and give Apple its 30 percent cut from those.

Note that some apps also deal with the 30 percent cut simply by jacking up their in-app subscription prices. This is allowed as well, and YouTube has been doing it for years with YouTube Premium.
 
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That still have to be reviewed by Apple and can be rejected. Still have to have permissions. The only difference is that those apps don't appear in the general app store and appear in something like Intune that also has to have Apple approval and review.
There basically is no review process and I think it’s an automated scan of sorts. In a nutshell, it’s $250 to register an entity-specific app distribution developer account, so that’s one per client in most cases. They have to install the requisite certificate on their devices, then they can access the app(s) to install them. It works very much like registering beta testers within the regular developer program and I’ve never had to wait for an app to be reviewed or approved. Like it takes up to an hour, maybe two, for one of these targeted apps to be available if Apple’s servers are really busy with a flood of new apps for a new iOS release.

That said, it’s a different animal than widespread app distribution.
 
That's not entirely true... A whole category of "reader" apps which oddly includes video streaming services like Netflix are exempt from that. Try downloading the Netflix or Spotify apps on a new device and see if you can figure out how to sign up for a new account directly from your iPhone or iPad 😏

It’s not that the terms are not true. But you are right about “reader” apps and streaming services. And some of these get away with it not specifically because of certain classes of apps being exempt, but because they’re grandfathered in with certain privileges. Netflix being a prime example. But Apple is letting several apps get away with this like remote gaming services, language learning and more. And I think there are many companies or apps that have real legitimate complaints here.

Note that some apps also deal with the 30 percent cut simply by jacking up their in-app subscription prices. This is allowed as well, and YouTube has been doing it for years with YouTube Premium.

Yeah there’s some real weirdness there. Apple can’t dictate pricing terms in or out of the App Store as that would be an antitrust violation in many countries these days. So companies can set their in-app purchase price to be 30% more than their web pricing to cover. However, Apple can dictate terms of comparative advertising or promotion. This is what got EPIC Games in trouble with Apple and Google — offering different pricing terms and making a big deal out of it and openly telling their users to not buy in the App Store because of the 30% and then offering discounts/ coupons/ incentives and whatnot to emphasize it all. Of course, EPIC did this by design in order to directly poke the hornet’s nest. Although it didn’t end how they had imagined it would.
 
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[...]

It's providing a 'value' that many don't need, a bit like a mob protection racket.
The 'value', which really is value without quotes, is to Apples' hundreds of millions of customers. Your argument seems to be is that devs should be able to do what they want, have their own payment terms, multiple app stores and have Apple treat it's infrastructure like Windows.

Apple is clearly under no obligation to run their business like that.
 
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When is the last time you have used Windows? I haven't used anti-virus (with exception of build in Windows Defender), firewall and IPS.

Your App Store only is only way to prevent malware is invalid. There were cases where malware ended up in App Store. The very idea that once give people ability to install app using other method must leads to malware infestation is false.

You never argue risk of being cheated, being poisoned, being sold something fake etc from real world stores. Would you argue that only government sanctioned supermarket, computer stores, car dealers? Would you argue banning all other stores?

What is the difference between app sold in App Store and real world product sold in variety stores?
It’s been a week or so since I used Windows. I’m familiar with that pile of turd. Also, Its worth mentioning that since Windows XP there has been built-in firewall on Windows. I kind of hope you have it turned on. Regarding Windows Defender, it’s actually terrific antivirus tool. The problem is that you need to have these running. Regarding IPS, most consumers have some sort of built-in IPS system running even without them knowing. The fact remains, I don’t want run stuff like this on my mobile device. The fact that Apple needs massive resources to keep App Store safe just underlines the point of not having some random third party stores.

There is large number of physical world products sold mostly or exclusively on brand stores. Especially the high end brands want to make sure the product is delivered to end user in highly controlled manner. This is part of their brand experience which is important part of whole brand image.
 
The 'value', which really is value without quotes, is to Apples' hundreds of millions of customers. Your argument seems to be is that devs should be able to do what they want, have their own payment terms, multiple app stores and have Apple treat it's infrastructure like Windows.

Apple is clearly under no obligation to run their business like that.

Well not yet ...
 
Just getting warmed up and it's already starting ..

Halving App Store commission to 15%

Setting third party apps as default on iOS

Siri support for Spotify

Just the begining ..
And all of this is due to the threat of anti-trust action... which brings us back to the original topic of this thread.
 
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Apple charges 15% for app purchases and in-app purchases for all developers who gross less than $1M/ year. Apple allows subscription services to operate outside the App Store without paying any fees if their services are platform agnostic. This is how you can subscribe to Netflix or Hulu or Rosetta on the web or on another platform and just download the free app on the App Store to use the service. They require developers who gross over $1M/ year to offer equivalent purchase or subscription options within their apps in order to be on the App Store. FWIW, Google has these same in-app purchase policies, but they’re still charging 30% to everybody. While Android allows itself to be unlocked and certain types of software to be side loaded, it’s actually a very small percentage of users who do this. Any serious developer with real products and proper income stream from those app products will have have them in the Play Store. Once again, the Play Store offers mostly the same benefits to developers as Apple’s App Store.

I may be way off base however I suspect iOS Jailbreak and Android sideload are probably the same subset percentage. It's there but not that many do it.
 
LMAO!!!! Moving the goal posts now are we .... Come on man! ;)
You just can't can't seem to help yourself. More $$$$!! But the security!! But you WILL BE infected!!! But Malware exists for those other platforms!!! But .... :rolleyes:

Can we get back to the original topic?
I never once moved the goal post.....I have always said my disagreement with this is due to security. Who cares if Apple makes money out of this, that is what a business is for. Just like hospitals. They can't operate without making money, and they can't hire employees without paying them. But hospitals DO also care for their patients. Apple can make money but ALSO care about the security of the phone.

I am on the topic. This will cause security to be an issue, JUST LIKE Apple's privacy chief mentions too.
 
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