Apple Pulls Apple Pay Support From Websites Selling White Nationalist and Nazi Apparel [Updated]

[macs4nw]

While I think white supremacist groups are deplorable and disgusting, I am concerned when people start denying access to things based on what that individual believes to be morally repugnant.

While I'm not trying to make a direct comparison between the two, there are plenty of people here who say "Hooray that Tim Cook won't let these people use Apple pay", who also said "How dare Oregonian bakers not make a cake for a gay wedding."

I'm not sure I want to live in a country where people use economics to force their morality on others (even when I agree with their morality), and be honest, that's what Apple is doing here. And I've seen people twist any view that they don't believe in into "hate speech."

Was going to make a post with a similar gist, but you beat me to it. This could definitely be a slippery slope. What makes this country great is the fact that we can disagree about things, yet peacefully coexist, and while naziism, racism, etc. are morally repugnant to most intelligent, thinking human beings, withholding services (that we are all able to enjoy) from these misguided souls, kind of brings us down to the same level of intolerance. What would be better imho is to not stoop to their level. Such tactics will only prolong the cycle of bias and hatred.

The intolerance of Neo-naziism and racism, etc. will never be stamped out by brute force. Education is the real solution.

 

[Kaibelf]

I'm not sure I want to live in a country where people use economics to force their morality on others (even when I agree with their morality), and be honest, that's what Apple is doing here. And I've seen people twist any view that they don't believe in into "hate speech."

Get back to me when gay people can’t be fired and have their livelihoods taken from them based on “sincerely held religious belief” and then we can talk about Apple forcing their morality on others through economics. A lot of the most repulsive treatment of American citizens have been done to millions of people over the years in the name of God. That includes attacking and killing gay people, as well as arguments supporting segregation and oposing legal interracial marriage. Oh and the supremacists and KKk trash in Virginia use the same excuses and justifications.

 

[Peace]

LOL, okay. There is no rise in any of those things, but keep believing what you want to believe. Good for Apple, they can do whatever they want.
[doublepost=1502925637][/doublepost]

Exactly. Anitfa is the only group at fault here. They have caused so much property destruction over the last year that it blows my mind. They were also "hired" to pretend to be "nazis" at this last event. It's a sick joke. Just consider their name: ANTI First Amendment.

A. Antifa means Anti-Fascism .

B. Please link to where antifa has "caused so much property destruction over the last year"
C. This country WILL and NEEDS to STOP Fascism in it's place NOW.
D. Please link to where "They were also "hired" to pretend to be "nazis"

 

[joesegh]

I'm not sure I want to live in a country where people use economics to force their morality on others (even when I agree with their morality), and be honest, that's what Apple is doing here. And I've seen people twist any view that they don't believe in into "hate speech."

Sorry to break it to you but that's all countries. Also, Nazism is hate speech. If we can't stand up to Nazis, what can we stand up to?

 

[horsebattery]

You're right. That's exactly how a democracy works and it's scary as hell when the majority can vote to have your stuff or rights.

Thankfully we don't live in such a society. We actually have rights that can not be taken away just because the majority thinks it's the thing to do. It's called a republic.

You're twisting the context of my argument - I'm talking about the majority of the country believing it to be the case to establish legally protected classes. And since you brought it up, what you're describing can still indeed occur if the majority wills it. But whether or not that can be legally upheld is another question although that would be quite the occasion.

 

[LordVic]

Your problem is you are so enraged by the target that you aren't able to see the dangerous underlying principle about denying people access to things because you disagree with them.

And your problem is you're defending the right for a group of people to actively promote violence and hatred.

I get where you are coming from. you're afraid that this is a slippery slope. I don't begrudge you of that.

But at some point you must have a line. If you allow hate speech to be openly allowed, you also are allowing for that hatred and line of thinking to be taught and spread.

So if Nazism, and the promotion of genocide isn't the line for you in the sand, than we're not going to get anywhere in this conversation. Because IMHO, the Nazis rights end when they directly threatened me. And Since Nazi's very ideals threaten me, My family and many people I love (as they'd see us all dead), thats the line in the sand I will NEVER understand others allowing to be crossed.

 

[Nunyabinez]

Get back to me when gay people can’t be fired and have their livelihoods taken from them based on “sincerely held religious belief” and then we can talk about Apple forcing their morality on others through economics. A lot of the most repulsive treatment of American citizens have been done to millions of people over the years in the name of God. That includes attacking and killing gay people, as well as arguments supporting segregation and oposing legal interracial marriage.

I give up. People can't reason on these issues any more. All they do is get enraged and then have no ability to think about things in a rational way. This generation is not going to end well because everyone is intellectually lazy and driven by emotion.

 

[WRChris]

Because of context and history. Why can't people see this? It's like some folks (more religion-based than race, so an issue in many races) who complain when they feel they're being discriminated against about their right to discriminate.

There should be a word in parenthesis of Black Lives Matter; that word is "Also". It's that blacks don't feel their lives matter as much. Given the history of this country, how can anyone not see why? We can give a lot of examples of exceptions to the rule, and that's great. Women, blacks, disabled, other minorities.... there has absolutely been progress. One has to wonder whether it is because of or in spite of incidents like Charlottesville,

I don't think context and history of racism makes racism in the other direction acceptable. Like it or not, when you advocate rights of one race over another, that is racism.

Maybe "also" should have been in the name, but it wasn't and I really doubt it was oversight. You know, because it's still not in there and all.

I'm done talking about BLM, I just wanted to know if all racism was targeted or just white supremacist(they all should!). Based on the responses, I don't think so. Just PR

 

[mixel]

There is no comparison between both “sides” here and anyone who claims that is being disengenuous at best. Folk saying BLM are “prioritising one group so that’s racist!” = also dumb. Prioritising one thing doesn’t mean you’re against the others. Not everyone is coming from the same place and there are grievances which hit some more than others, hence taking on those causes with more passion.

My daughter sponsors snow leopards - a species that’s in trouble. I guess she must hate all the other animals? Do I have to explain how she has to sponsor and care about *all* the causes equally? No.. that would be beyond ridiculous. Likewise: Black lives matter, it’d be great if they weren’t so frequently mistreated by cops. That’s a good cause. Admitting that doesn’t make you anti-cop or anti white, it makes you anti bad policing, and pro human rights.

Seriously sick of the far right’s zombie talking points. Equally, feminism isn’t anti-man! (shocking!) Groups that campaign for rights aren’t inherently trying to take yours (possibly reduce your right to shoot at them without consequence or act against them in negative ways. Seems fair?!)

Antifascist blowback would not be happening if there wasn’t rising fascism in the first place. Fascism which *must* be opposed at all costs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance - you can not have a tolerant society if you are not prepared to combat intolerance.

 

[Nunyabinez]

And your problem is you're defending the right for a group of people to actively promote violence and hatred.

I get where you are coming from. you're afraid that this is a slippery slope. I don't begrudge you of that.

But at some point you must have a line. If you allow hate speech to be openly allowed, you also are allowing for that hatred and line of thinking to be taught and spread.

So if Nazism, and the promotion of genocide isn't the line for you in the sand, than we're not going to get anywhere in this conversation. Because IMHO, the Nazis rights end when they directly threatened me. And Since Nazi's very ideals threaten me, My family and many people I love (as they'd see us all dead), thats the line in the sand I will NEVER understand others allowing to be crossed.

The above post says it all. I mean, there is no point trying to argue this with people.

 

[Kaibelf]

Shutting down free speech seems like such a ... Nazi thing to do...

Methinks you’re not familiar with what the first amendment applies to and what it’s about.

 

[GermanSuplex]

I don't think context and history of racism makes racism in the other direction acceptable. Like it or not, when you advocate rights of one race over another, that is racism.

BLM don't want rights over another. They want the same reaction when pulled over and cooperating as they do anyone else. Since when does "equal" mean "over"?

 

[supremedesigner]

I think this is type of news post that SHOULD NOT ALLOW ANY DISCUSSION OR COMMENT.

Have you seen other sites? It turned into political feces fight where everyone is throwing poop at each other.

Seriously, just stop. Disable commenting. Turn it on in a year or so.

I disagreed. I enjoyed reading their opinions.

 

[Kaibelf]

I give up. People can't reason on these issues any more. All they do is get enraged and then have no ability to think about things in a rational way. This generation is not going to end well because everyone is intellectually lazy and driven by emotion.

Explain what about my post was at all driven by emotion or inaccurate on the most basic intellectual level? I can cite sources for absolutely every point I asserted.

 

[WRChris]

BLM don't want rights over another. They want the same reaction when pulled over and cooperating as they do anyone else. Since when does "equal" mean "over"?

I get the same negative reaction when pulled over. Oh, white 20 something in a flat bill? We need to get the dogs. Has happened to me more than once. I also get the where have you been, where are you going, interrogation.

Nothing to do with race.

 

[rillrill]

Destroy all Nazis, everywhere.

 

[Glockworkorange]

Apple has disabled Apple Pay support on websites selling white nationalist and hate group apparel and accessories, reports BuzzFeed.

While Apple did not provide a comment on its decision to pull Apple Pay from the websites, an Apple spokesperson pointed out Apple Pay guidelines that prevent the payments service from being used on sites promoting hate, intolerance, and violence based on race, age, gender, gender identity, ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation.

Apple's efforts to block Apple Pay from white nationalist websites comes following a "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, where white nationalists and supremacists clashed with counterprotestors over the removal of the Robert E. Lee statue located in Emancipation Park. The event culminated in the death of one person and the injury of 19 others after a white nationalist drove a car into a crowd of people.

While Apple has not made an official statement, Apple CEO Tim Cook shared two tweets earlier this week calling the events "heartbreaking" and condemning violence and racism.

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In addition to Apple, many other sites have been cracking down on white nationalist and white supremacist organizations. PayPal has also pulled payment support from some of the sites in question, while Uber, Facebook, Twitter, Wordpress, and Airbnb have made efforts to quell white nationalist activity on their platforms.

Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

Article Link: Apple Pulls Apple Pay Support From Websites Selling White Nationalist and Nazi Apparel

Who knew there were so many Nazi sites using Apple Pay---I wish more traditional outlets offered the service!

 

[horsebattery]

I get the same negative reaction when pulled over. Oh, white 20 something in a flat bill? We need to get the dogs. Has happened to me more than once.

Nothing to do with race.

What is anecdotal evidence

 

[WRChris]

What is anecdotal evidence

Yeah, figured I'd get that response. It's experience and you don't have to believe it, I know it happens.

There are too many PEOPLE kept in cages, not only blacks.

 

[LordVic]

Yeah, figured I'd get that response. It's experience and you don't have to believe it, I know it happens.

There are too many PEOPLE kept in cages, not only blacks.

yes. there are. And your anecdote doesn't discount that it might have happened to you.

However, statistically, Black people do get the bulk of this attitude from police in many places. BLM demanding equal treatment under the law, doesn't suddenly mean you don't deserve equal treatment under the law either. If you believe some aspect of your socio-economic condition, race, creed, etc has led to unfair treatment by the police, or society, you too are encouraged to form your own group to champion equal rights. BLM should not feel like an affront to you. Do we all not want equal rights for all people?

 

[lunarworks]

Exactly. Anitfa is the only group at fault here. They have caused so much property destruction over the last year that it blows my mind. They were also "hired" to pretend to be "nazis" at this last event. It's a sick joke. Just consider their name: ANTI First Amendment.

LOL, that's what you think Antifa stands for?

It's anti-fascism. Its origins are in Europe. They've been around for quite a while.

When you have politicians at the highest levels scared of an anti-fascist movement, and failing to condemn Nazis, you know you have a problem.

 

[Nunyabinez]

Explain what about my post was at all driven by emotion or inaccurate on the most basic intellectual level? I can cite sources for absolutely every point I asserted.

Nazism or sexual preference was not in anyway relevant to what I was trying to argue. If you could step back and get past the content you would see that what is happening is that Person A sees Person B as morally repugnant and decides to deny them rights that they legally have.

I have concerns about that happening whether it is denying a cake to a gay couple or the right to use technology to racists. Neither of those things is illegal, and there are people who think that either of them are wrong.

The point is that once you decide that you can deny someone rights based on your particular moral system, even if almost everyone agrees with it, you open a door that might someday impact you.

 

[macfacts]

First off, I think this is a good thing, but here is the big question:

Is this also being done the other way around? In other words, are say sites sell Black Supremacist apparel (yes, they exist too) also having Apple Pay Support pulled? I would hope so, after all equality can't work one way.

I know is the answer to that question, yes Apple has pulled Apple pay support for Black Supremacist apparel.

The summary says all web sites promoting any kind of hate can not use Apple pay. Where did you get the idea that black Supremacist web sites can continue or start to use Apple pay?

 

[hsotnicam8002]

There is no good discrimination.

But the Nazi believed in erasing entire ethnic peoples from the planet. Nothing compares to that.

Yes it does ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes

 

[R.Perez]

All the MR racists that hide in PRSI are coming out of the woodwork. No space for Nazis.