Apple Pulls VPN Apps From China App Store As Russia Signs Law Banning Their Use

[VulchR]

Yeah... Your solider just go other countries and rape their ladies...Remember the big protest from Japanede citizens?

Yes. These cases stain the US military. However, the North Korean armed forces the the PRC is so keen to support has also been accused of sexual assault of its own female troops. No large organisation, let alone an army, is free of evil men who are sexual predators.

You guys force Japanese government accept US land US military plan where almost all local people are against. Remember protest from South Korean people with regarding anti-messile defense system?

I think it is more like the Japanese government is making the Okinawans accept the US military bases. The US cannot force Japan to do anything. And is SK protesting now that there have been additional tests of NK missiles? All I know is that the doveish government there is asking the US to help upgrade their own missiles to heavier warheads. I would be perfectly happy if the US signed a treaty that precluded invasion of North Korea provided North Korea abandons its pursuit of nuclear ICBM's (and allows verification of this by the UN). As for drills in South Korea between the US and SK armed forces, as you say, that is an internal matter for South Korea. It's not as though the US gains some huge advantage by having bases there.

We are simply exerice our terrorial right when we build artificial land. There is nothing wrong with that

It's against international law, it increases the likelihood of conflict in the area, and not it's very neighbourly, is it? I take it you still pondering whether these land features are just emergency runways for civilian airliners, yes?

Look... Texas was from which country? Mixco. There are Texas independent movement. Does your government ever accepting Texas independent? I don't think so

On the one hand, the US fought a bloody civil war to prevent Southern states from leaving the Union (among other reasons for the war). Nowadays, I'm not so sure what the response would be. Still I presume most Texans want to be in the US, however begrudgingly, whereas most people in the ROC don't want to be in the PRC.

Taiwan has been part of China since sever hundreds years ago. They speak Chinese, write in Chinese, Chinese heritage is their root. Taiwan was part of China and is part of China and will remain be part of China in the future.

What matters now is what the people living there now want, not what people who don't live there want. If the people of the ROC wanted reunification the US would have no say. However, after what has been happening in Hong Kong, I doubt the people living in Taiwan will want to rejoin mainland China any time soon, and that's not the US's fault. Moreover, I think it highly unlikely that people in the PRC want to join the ROC, even though there is this shared culture and history of which you write.

 

[LovingTeddy]

Yes. These cases stain the US military. However, the North Korean armed forces the the PRC is so keen to support has also been accused of sexual assault of its own female troops. No large organisation, let alone an army, is free of evil men who are sexual predators.



I think it is more like the Japanese government is making the Okinawans accept the US military bases. The US cannot force Japan to do anything. And is SK protesting now that there have been additional tests of NK missiles? All I know is that the doveish government there is asking the US to help upgrade their own missiles to heavier warheads. I would be perfectly happy if the US signed a treaty that precluded invasion of North Korea provided North Korea abandons its pursuit of nuclear ICBM's (and allows verification of this by the UN). As for drills in South Korea between the US and SK armed forces, as you say, that is an internal matter for South Korea. It's not as though the US gains some huge advantage by having bases there.



It's against international law, it increases the likelihood of conflict in the area, and not it's very neighbourly, is it? I take it you still pondering whether these land features are just emergency runways for civilian airliners, yes?



On the one hand, the US fought a bloody civil war to prevent Southern states from leaving the Union (among other reasons for the war). Nowadays, I'm not so sure what the response would be. Still I presume most Texans want to be in the US, however begrudgingly, whereas most people in the ROC don't want to be in the PRC.



What matters now is what the people living there now want, not what people who don't live there want. If the people of the ROC wanted reunification the US would have no say. However, after what has been happening in Hong Kong, I doubt the people living in Taiwan will want to rejoin mainland China any time soon, and that's not the US's fault. Moreover, I think it highly unlikely that people in the PRC want to join the ROC, even though there is this shared culture and history of which you write.

Oh I have no problem ROC returning mainland China... Overall it is United China.i also have no problem with current situation where Taiwan is technically independent but not legally independent.

 

[iZac]

You haven't kept up with the latest info. Yes it's been a cat and mouse game but this latest move is a whole new ball game by China. Check out All Foreigner will leave China -China Bans VPNS?

Unfortunately I've been following it quite closely. I live on my VPN In SH and never turn it off (terrible for my battery). Express VPN is my current one of choice. About a year or two ago most of my pptp and l2tp connections stopped working but there's always alternatives.

I think this threat is just blustering to be honest, but we'll see how it goes. But if everything goes to crap I'll probably set up a shadowsocks server.

 

[RudySnow]

When it comes to chasing the almighty dollar, in the end you can’t fight “the man,” huh Tim? “Diversity” and “free expression” are only preached by Apple as long as it’s NIMBA. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Imagine how easy it is running one of the worlds biggest companies.

It looks pretty easy, as Tim has a lot of time to praise transgender bathrooms and other social issues he cares about at home while being a social hypocrite overseas.

 

[lec0rsaire]

This just sucks for most people. The more tech savvy folks will always be able to get around this, but for normal users a VPN app and service is such a simple way to get access to the full uncensored web. I feel bad for all the Chinese and Russian folks that will be kept in the dark by their government.

Tim had no choice but to comply. It's either do what the Chinese government says or forget about selling iPhones and iPads in China.

 

[sir1963nz]

We shouldn't even have open trade relations with them in the first place. The Chinese government has starkly different moral values from us, including many human rights violations which we somehow manage to ignore. I really don't get it.

The US is hardly a paragon of virtue.
You have the highest prison population (per 100,000) of any country in the world.
Many (most ?) of your prisons are "for profit"
Many prison have forced work regimes, i.e. you are "free" not to work in solitary confinement
How is this any different from Slave labour ?

 

[dogslobber]

Oh I have no problem ROC returning mainland China... Overall it is United China.i also have no problem with current situation where Taiwan is technically independent but not legally independent.

The irony of all this is that the Republic of China is the rightful government of mainland China too. The communists illegally overthrew the government fled went to Taiwan to escape. Communist China, which some people confusingly say isn't communist, wasn't recognized by any other country that mattered until Nixon came along. So Communist China isn't even a legal entity.

Then there's Tibet and its illegal annexation. Communist China is worse than Russia.

 

[sir1963nz]

It looks pretty easy, as Tim has a lot of time to praise transgender bathrooms and other social issues he cares about at home while being a social hypocrite overseas.

So are you saying that when people of other nations come to the USA they are no obligated to obey US laws ?
Or that businesses that operate in the US can flout US laws ?

And No, the US does not have more "freedom", it actually ranks 20th
https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index

And given that the US has the highest prison population in the world (per 100,000) then I would say that US citizens are also poor at obeying US law.

 

[hiroden]

My family is from Hong Kong and I grew up in Hong Kong. We immigrated to Canada before 1997 (aka Hong Kong became back part of China once again after many years of being a British colony). My dad didn't like what he saw from the news of 1989 Tiananmen Square Massacre so he decided we should not live under a communist's government. He has more trust in democracy than the China's communism. I still read news from Hong Kong and travel there to visit family and friends every few years.

Since 1997, China is trying to diminish Hong Kong's democracy in many areas, especially in freedom of speech and thought. You many say Hong Kong never had full democracy (having a responsible government) since it's time as a British colony and it doesn't need one. However, China did agree that Hong Kong people (via the constitutional "1 country 2 systems", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems) can choose their own leader and government and living under the common law with rights and freedom. Yet China is acting as a parent telling Hong Kong government to follow orders (China chose the leaders) and the people to behave. Hong Kong is a very unique place in China where its residents living in freedom and having very different life than rest of China, and this uniqueness is being taken away 1 piece at a time. Is this the best for Hong Kong?

I agree that China is doing well economically and most Chinese people are happy with the success (except in the rural area). But how much ones rights and human can be sacrificed in the name of "growth".

I read this in a Japanese novel, "I believe that being ruled by the worst democracy is preferable to being ruled by the best autocracy." With democracy, the leader or the government is responsible to the people and replaceable with something better in various way. With China, people can only hope the government and leaders are going to be responsible to the people. If things gone bad, people can suffer with no way to change. What happen when China's "growth" slows down? What will the China's leaders do? Can they make the right call?

 

[stylinexpat]

Not sure why post got deleted.Post was in reference to thread topic which did mention China. Thread title mentioned China and Russia.

 

[dogslobber]

We are rational people and understand difference between two system. You on other hand just think your way of life is only way and refuse to acknowledge other way of life. Really, capitalism allows corporation suck people dry and collecting 90% wealth to top 1%.

That's somewhat ironic given that capitalism is the whole reason Communist China isn't the third world country it used to be. Its success is built on the back of the American dollar, cheap & plentiful labor, etc. The very system that the Communist government rails against. It's like the old days of the Soviet Union who used to slap down the evils of American capitalism all the while making sure the gas and oil flowed freely to the west. Russia still has its oil and gas to get American dollars but China's days of cheap and labor are drawing to a close. Now China is left with a skewed population due to female genocide at birth such that those males that are young, unemployed, and single can't find a job and can't find a wife.

China is in big trouble based on those points.

 

[LovingTeddy]

The irony of all this is that the Republic of China is the rightful government of mainland China too. The communists illegally overthrew the government fled went to Taiwan to escape. Communist China, which some people confusingly say isn't communist, wasn't recognized by any other country that mattered until Nixon came along. So Communist China isn't even a legal entity.

Then there's Tibet and its illegal annexation. Communist China is worse than Russia.

LOL.... You have no clue about Chinese history. The CPP had agreement with Sun Yat-sen for corporation, this is know as 第一次国共合作 ( first CPP and KMT corporation), most CPP member became KMT party member. Then when Chiang Kai-Shek came to power, he started to break then corporation. He then started to arrest and bloody killing CPP member. Then of course CPP start to repel against Chiangas force. He tried to contain CPP five times but all failed. CPP had support by local poor famers. If Chiang did not go all his way to kill all CPP member, then CPP won't go rebellion. Also note that when ROC funded in 1912, Military coup was very frequent. ROC seen multiple election scandles and candidates were trying to buy enough vote to win. There was no democracy at all. You really think KMT government (which is capitalist party) are all that innocent? **** no. When Chiang trying to kill CPP members, it often go without trail and killed on spot. When you have that kind of blood sheed, will you not rebell? Whether or not you can success is other story.

Then Japanese came, rather fight common enemy, which is Japanese, Chiang continued campaign to kill communist party. It wasn't until Xi'an inncient where second corporation between CPP and KMT started. Because Chiang started killing CPP before, do you really expect CPP member trust KMT abit? Hell no.

Even after the war with Japan, he still trying to kill all CPP. Still no trial and CPP members are brutally killed. Then when KMT moved to Taiwan, KMT are still in absolute power. Remember 228 incident? KMT were arrest anyone suspect be CPP and kill them without trail.

Any rebellion without support of people won't be successful. CPP had support of people by then and still have support by people now.

Regarding with international recognization. US did not recognize PRC because of cold war ideology and sole reason for US start recognizing PRC because PRC can be US ally against Soviet. And yes, Communist China was once an alley of US and we had import some US military weapons before 1989 Tiananmen Crackdown.

Now in terms of Tibet. Tibet was part of China during Ming, Qing, ROC. As successor of ROC, PRC of course has legal claim on Tibet. How is this illegal?

And do you real think US is all innocent and respect human right all that much? US has highest black unrest, highest level of perisoner, how many people displaced during war with Iraq and Afghanistan? How many people US killed during Vietnam war? You have US military use Chemical gas to kill.

So shut your cold war ideology. If you think Communism is evil, Captialism is just as evilm

 

[nicho]

Unfortunately I've been following it quite closely. I live on my VPN In SH and never turn it off (terrible for my battery). Express VPN is my current one of choice. About a year or two ago most of my pptp and l2tp connections stopped working but there's always alternatives.

I think this threat is just blustering to be honest, but we'll see how it goes. But if everything goes to crap I'll probably set up a shadowsocks server.

VyprVPN is a good alternative, FYI.

 

[asiga]

By mail, or by queueing up at an office to sign up?

By queueing (I mean: the companies which want to store your data in their devices should have to queue up at your home, not you queueing up at their office... if you queue up at their office it would be even more stupid than the current situation, which is giving all your data to them for free).
[doublepost=1501538713][/doublepost]

Yes, because the world was perfect when such pen and ink signatures were the only way.

I didn't say the world would be perfect if Google, Apple, Microsoft, etc didn't store your data "by default" and without ink and paper contract. What I said is that the world would be much better than it is now.

 

[LovingTeddy]

My family is from Hong Kong and I grew up in Hong Kong. We immigrated to Canada before 1997 (aka Hong Kong became back part of China once again after many years of being a British colony). My dad didn't like what he saw from the news of 1989 Tiananmen Square Massacre so he decided we should not live under a communist's government. He has more trust in democracy than the China's communism. I still read news from Hong Kong and travel there to visit family and friends every few years.

Since 1997, China is trying to diminish Hong Kong's democracy in many areas, especially in freedom of speech and thought. You many say Hong Kong never had full democracy (having a responsible government) since it's time as a British colony and it doesn't need one. However, China did agree that Hong Kong people (via the constitutional "1 country 2 systems", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems) can choose their own leader and government and living under the common law with rights and freedom. Yet China is acting as a parent telling Hong Kong government to follow orders (China chose the leaders) and the people to behave. Hong Kong is a very unique place in China where its residents living in freedom and having very different life than rest of China, and this uniqueness is being taken away 1 piece at a time. Is this the best for Hong Kong?

I agree that China is doing well economically and most Chinese people are happy with the success (except in the rural area). But how much ones rights and human can be sacrificed in the name of "growth".

I read this in a Japanese novel, "I believe that being ruled by the worst democracy is preferable to being ruled by the best autocracy." With democracy, the leader or the government is responsible to the people and replaceable with something better in various way. With China, people can only hope the government and leaders are going to be responsible to the people. If things gone bad, people can suffer with no way to change. What happen when China's "growth" slows down? What will the China's leaders do? Can they make the right call?

How would you know full on democracy will work with China? When you had basically no democracy before CCP came to power? Has China ever had any democracy? The ROC trid to implement deomracy and failed. Just look at what Taiwan doing. Politician are fighting with each other in their legislature meeting. Politician are playing with people emotion and force legislation without vote? You really think democracy in Taiwan worked? Taiwan became rich not because of democracy, it was because KMT implement successful policy during its power.

I would rather China stay in current form and we Chinese citizen are enjoying the economic growth.

Regarding with Hong Kong... One day it will be absorbed by Chinese. One Country two system won't stay forever... Hong Kong is part of China and Hong Kong government will obey central government.

 

[sir1963nz]

The irony of all this is that the Republic of China is the rightful government of mainland China too. The communists illegally overthrew the government fled went to Taiwan to escape. Communist China, which some people confusingly say isn't communist, wasn't recognized by any other country that mattered until Nixon came along. So Communist China isn't even a legal entity.

Then there's Tibet and its illegal annexation. Communist China is worse than Russia.

So the USA is now back under the UKs control ?
After all the Americans back then illegally over threw the regime.

We should also look at how many countries the USA has invaded, dropped munitions on.....

 

[dogslobber]

So the USA is now back under the UKs control ?
After all the Americans back then illegally over threw the regime.

We should also look at how many countries the USA has invaded, dropped munitions on.....

It's a common deflection this one which doesn't change the original facts about China. Still, whatever makes you comfortable...

 

[charlituna]

And what, pray tell, would you have Apple do? Tell China no? That may work in the US (for now at least) and other western countries where the leaders are constrained by the courts and rule of law, but in China they have no such option. If Apple doesn't remove the offending content, then the App Store in China goes dark, as well as Apple's ability to sell iPhones and other wares in China.

It goes further than that. Computers etc require certain rare metals to function at this point in time. No one has managed to create fiscally feasible computers that get around those metals. And one of the largest caches of those metals is in China. China knows this and has been smart enough to ban the export of said metals. If you want to use them you must produce your chips in China.

If Apple refuses to play by Chinese laws they can ban the companies that produce the chips from doing business with Apple or lose their access to said metals. That happens and Apple is over. What little bit of the metals they have retrieved from recycled products won't last them long. Once the products in the warehouses are gone that would be it.

 

[Naaaaak]

Apple's showing so much "courage".

Now get back to removing headphone ports on devices.

 

[SeattleMoose]

I remember when in school you didn't get indoctrinated with politics, instead ... you learned subject matter. I also remember when corporations just made stuff and kept politics out of it. If you like it you buy it and if not, fine.

But today, there is way too much politics in EVERYTHING.

I'm going to the store...oh wait...THAT store supported <fill in the blank>. It is a sad world today where everything is politicized and everyone is "triggered" by just about everything. We used to call whiners "cry babies". Now they are celebrated as "social justice warriors".

Time to grow up....politics has its place. But not in everything.

Bring on the new Mac Pro!!!

 

[nicho]

It goes further than that. Computers etc require certain rare metals to function at this point in time. No one has managed to create fiscally feasible computers that get around those metals. And one of the largest caches of those metals is in China. China knows this and has been smart enough to ban the export of said metals. If you want to use them you must produce your chips in China.

If Apple refuses to play by Chinese laws they can ban the companies that produce the chips from doing business with Apple or lose their access to said metals. That happens and Apple is over. What little bit of the metals they have retrieved from recycled products won't last them long. Once the products in the warehouses are gone that would be it.

They don't even have to do that. They could just find random reasons to permanently close down the factories making Apple devices overnight.

Apples inventory strategy doesn't extend to warehouses... all the expensive stuff has fairly optimised production and goes to stores quickly, it doesn't sit in warehouses for very long or at all.

In a matter of months, or even weeks in some cases if people "panic buy" Apple Stores would be left selling only dongles and watch bands. So most macrumors readers wouldn't notice the change anyway...

 

[Chupa Chupa]

I didn't say the world would be perfect if Google, Apple, Microsoft, etc didn't store your data "by default" and without ink and paper contract. What I said is that the world would be much better than it is now.

Honestly it wouldn't even be much better, probably worse actually because then those companies would have to process paperwork and instant access to anything online would end not to mention increase the cost of doing business which then is pushed on to consumers.

If you want proof, how many times do you think people read car rental contracts at the airport before signing? How many people read their cable contract when the cable guy comes to set up service? How many people read their HOA docs before signing so they can close on their house? Correct answer is not too many. So I'm really unsure why you thing forcing user to sign in ink solves any issue or makes anything better?

 

[sir1963nz]

It's a common deflection this one which doesn't change the original facts about China. Still, whatever makes you comfortable...

Its a common deflection this one which doesn't change the facts about the USA. Still, what ever makes you comfortable.....

 

[amegicfox]

SJW Tim Cook should protest the Chinese government like he does for everything that doesn't fit his narrative in the USA

 

[stylinexpat]

SJW Tim Cook should protest the Chinese government like he does for everything that doesn't fit his narrative in the USA

Tim Cook must have been given one option:
1) Get rid of the VPN Apps on the APP store in China or lose the whole App store in China.

When one compares the revenue of the whole App store vs the revenue from the VPN apps he quickly made his decision based on a business perspective.