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It sometimes seems that the longing for freedom in the USA has waned a bit, and people allow themselves to be oppressed and exploited by the big tech companies as they please. Europe has a somewhat different attitude toward this.
We have always had a choice to choose a closed garden or an open one. Even when there are monopolies our system has taken care of the free market. Apples situation is completely different because they don’t have a monopoly in the mobile sector. It’s the software on the phone that people keep crying about. They want to force Apples vision to an Android phone instead of just buying an android phone.
 
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Epic does the same exact thing. Makes games exclusive to their store and block them from going to the most popular platform, Steam, they take a percentage from each sale, etc. Just because Epic takes a smaller piece of the pie doesn't automatically make them the saints they claim to be, nor does it mean they can dictate how another company runs their platform. Epic operates the Epic Game Store at a loss. It's not profitable. Not every company wants to make bad financial decisions like that.
I'm all for Epic playing by those same rules. There is however this 7.5B market size threshold. Can you agree that market size/importance matters?
 
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There are a laughable number of people who apparently believe a company can operate with impunity just because they made something lol.
its the american dream so I can see the allure. but yea at some point we have antitrust/anticompetitive laws so businesses cant abuse their position. apple has immense power to push for an unfavorable deal, and it doesnt matter android exists an app developer cant just ignore half their market. market power + leverage = unfair
 
I read this as "Epic Games might have to be better than Epic Games are, in order to succeed."

This may not have been your intended meaning, but I think it's nonetheless a true statement!
That is what I meant. They have not shown themselves to be a company with high standards, but they have to live by their choices. It didn't work when they broke their contract because they lost millions when Fortnite was knocked out of iOS and Android stores. They must do better.
 
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Because everyone (except you, apparently) knows enough about government processes to know that the government didn't start a probe, finish it, analyze and discuss their findings, and then make a decision in less than 24 hours. :rolleyes:
And of course, you know it to be fact that counter to their public position, Apple doesn't privately think that they may be on shaky legal ground and a simple notification of a probe being opened didn't come in from an EU representative that perhaps may have made Apple rethink their decision. K lol.
 
Because after you leave Target you're not locked into going back to target for all of you retail store needs for the rest of your life. It's called monopoly power. Apple has it, Target doesn't.
The same way Nintendo does with the switch, and Sony with the PS5? Why won't my Blu-ray player play VHS tapes?
 
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Apple and Epic are both pathetic and annoying.

I agree but in this case Apple is gatekeeping alternative app stores which defeats the purpose of having one in the first place. It's like SetApp must pay Apple a cut because they distribute software for Macs. With iOS it's like Apple owns your devices you paid for and decides what apps you're allowed to install plus they take a cut despite they don't have to host those apps on their servers.
 
This is the part that bothers me. I remember when the EU presented themselves as a more progressive alternative to the US, leading by example on global issues. This coarse protectionism is unbecoming and really undermines their stature in the world.

Mate, it’s like everything when Politicians get involved…

EDIT: just realised this isn’t a political thread! I expect half the posts will be deleted soon including this one.
 
That is completely irrelevant.
Consumers deserve to have a choice and plenty of options to pick from.
You just wait until companies kill their apps on Apple Store and move to Alternative Stores in order to save 30% and offer their services at decreased prices and almost no BS from Apple.
You are probably right that vast majority will stay where they are because apple users are mostly simple people and not tech savy.
But users who want cheaper prices for things they spend money on monthly basis will probably be glad there is such an option.
I know il be the first person to move and encourage my coworkers to start developing on Epic or any other store that comes out for the EU market.
Offer their services at decreased prices lol

You’re new to this pricing stuff aren’t you?
 
It's really not. Apple is giving Epic another chance and the EU is witness to it. If Epic blows it, there's no way the EU can [in good faith] defend Epic. Apple just painted Epic and the EU into a corner.
There's no defending Epic because that's not the point. Apple has tried to pull a PR stunt, but the crux of the matter is that they abused the control they were allowed to retain for security purposes in order to paint Epic as the evil company. The truth is that under the DMA, Apple shouldn't have the power to block apps for reasons other than security, so, should they pull something like this again, I reckon they'd be fined almost immediately by the EU.
 
It's disappointing that MR chooses to selectively edit the first hand material available and leave out the important details.

Schiller's email, including the limited quote provided, simply culminated in a request for written assurances from Sweeney that Epic wouldn't pull the same stunt again. That email was not a termination letter.

It was Epic that blew this out of proportion in their reporting of this issue. If they exercised a bit more reserve, instead of launching this attack on Apple, this would've been resolved without any headlines.
 
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Do you have so little faith in Apple's skills to create a phone OS that will not break by merely launching an app?
A side-loaded app that has not been reviewed by Apple could do anything! And if it has been reviewed by Apple, what's the harm in having it in a separate App Store you have to download so there is accountability there?

If you were around in the 1990s-2000s, do you remember what the PC market was like? Viruses galore, scammy apps that weren't viruses but slowed down the machine, changed your default search engine/browser, gave you pop ups. Consumers were scared to download apps! One of Apple's biggest accomplishments with the iPhone (that developers seem to forget) is that Apple made normal consumers feel safe about downloading apps because they were sandboxed and could easily be deleted.

Look, personally it would benefit me if Apple allowed side loading. I trust myself not to install crap, and if I did I also know enough to fix anything I screw up myself, and there are apps I'd like to see that would never get approved by Apple. And yes, I know Android allows side loading and it's mostly fine. It'd probably be mostly fine for Apple too - as I've said previously in this thread I think it's silly how stubborn they are being. But I understand why they're fighting this so hard, even if I don't agree 100%, and think it's ridiculous the EU can make them.

But make no mistake, the EU can make them, and will.
 
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I didn't say they were, did I? But you said "unjust rules don't have to be followed". You didn't specify what TYPES of unjust rules. Guess you should've been more specific, because now it just looks like the only rules you think are unjust are just the ones YOU don't like. If the "unjustness" of a rule is up to the discretion of each and every individual person, then you will find people trying to avoid following every single rule we have, because someone somewhere, will have a rule they think is "unjust".
Well given that Epic has their developer account back and will now be able to take payments directly from users, at least in the EU, and even make their own app store there -- things that would've been against Apple's rules when they broke the rules -- it seems several adjudicating bodies agree with me that the rules were unjust.
 
That is completely irrelevant.
Consumers deserve to have a choice and plenty of options to pick from.
You just wait until companies kill their apps on Apple Store and move to Alternative Stores in order to save 30% and offer their services at decreased prices and almost no BS from Apple.
You are probably right that vast majority will stay where they are because apple users are mostly simple people and not tech savy.
But users who want cheaper prices for things they spend money on monthly basis will probably be glad there is such an option.
I know il be the first person to move and encourage my coworkers to start developing on Epic or any other store that comes out for the EU market.

This was never about cheaper prices. This was about Epic wanting more of the pie for themselves. Prices are not going to decrease. These alternative stores need to make money, too, so they'll likely just charge their own commission, replacing Apple's.

It was a big waste of everybody's time. I wish Apple had the balls to step over this nonsense and just launch an app-store platform globally. Silence everyone before they even open their mouth. It's the right thing to do and what we'll see eventually.
 
How does this, specifically, benefit citizens?
Alright let me give you 3 examples..
1. Most if not all apps from Apples App Store are forbidden from discosing that it might be 10-30% cheaper to subscribe or buy something on their web site directly instead trought the app, or link to any alternative purchasing option or use alternative payment processors.
Apple loves to attack and threaten any app developer who wants to offer sales and special offers outside their apps because then apple does not get 30% sales tax.
Dont get me wrong, some companies are greedy and pocket the 30% they could have saved for their users/customers instead of giving simply 10-30% cheaper subscription/purchasing price for those who wish to do it on their web site.
This is no longer allowed under DMA regulation, which means companies have the ability to inform their users of cheaper option even if they stay on Apples App Store and do not go to the Alternative Rival App Stores.
2. Rival App stores to gain userbase will most likely heavily undercut apples 30% tax by offering 5-15% which directly benefits consumers.
3. More games, apps and competition between app stores for usersbase lowers prices and enables developers to pick technologies and different ways to create, update and release games which apple would refuse, game streaming and e-commerce/subscription type of apps for example.
 
That's definitely a bug though, it's not supposed to work in the UK. Is your Apple ID also UK-based? Or did you set it to some other country?

All UK based, it did make me wonder, with the UK entwined with so many EU laws still I was thinking we may be caught under this too? Not that I would use a lot of alt app stores, but the idea of having some game emulators for old consoles without having to jump through hoops is nice.
 
Everyone who is still defending Apple:
Do read up on Stockholm syndrome.

Apple is just coming over as a bully who is now being held to account and it doesn’t look pretty.

With the debacle that was the Apple car, I really think it’s time for a change in leadership.
 
The irony that the US won’t have Fortnite on iPhones because of our lack of meaningful anti-trust regulation should not be lost on fellow American commenters.
The joke is that Epic Games could have played by Apple's rules and kept raking in millions of dollars but they decided that wasn't enough, broke their contract, and got nothing.
 
You mean Apple wanted assurances Epic wouldn't be total *******s and disregard rules again? Yeah, total dick move.
No, Apple realised this stupid move to block epic was going to get the EU to completely tear apart Apple’s approach to the DMA which is an entirely ropey approach to it. It’ll happen eventually anyway, but now it won’t be so soon.
 
It's really not. Apple is giving Epic another chance and the EU is witness to it. If Epic blows it, there's no way the EU can [in good faith] defend Epic. Apple just painted Epic and the EU into a corner.
Here's how it's seen by others

XDA Developers - Apple lets Epic Games back on the App Store after a DMA scolding

Yahoo Finance - Apple retreats in Epic feud, allows Fortnite return in EU

PCMag Australia - Apple Backs Down, Will Allow Epic Games to Create iOS App Store in EU

I can go on....
 
Well given that Epic has their developer account back and will now be able to take payments directly from users, at least in the EU, and even make their own app store there -- things that would've been against Apple's rules when they broke the rules -- it seems several adjudicating bodies agree with me that the rules were unjust.
And given that it was a span of maybe 24 hours from start to now...I seriously doubt the EU had ANYTHING to do with this. You really believe those several adjudicating bodies investigated the problem, compiled their evidence, discussed their findings, and came to an agreement on what to do in 24 hours? No government on earth works that fast. None.
 
And given that it was a span of maybe 24 hours from start to now...I seriously doubt the EU had ANYTHING to do with this. You really believe those several adjudicating bodies investigated the problem, compiled their evidence, discussed their findings, and came to an agreement on what to do in 24 hours? No government on earth works that fast. None.
I bet Apple knew they weren't in the right when they denied it, so they first disabled Epic's account to prove a point, and then reinstated it to come off as "the good guys"
 
Offer their services at decreased prices lol

You’re new to this pricing stuff aren’t you?
Not all companies are governed by greed.
Smaller companies will fight for the users with cheaper prices, same for the rival app stores, they cant hope to attract users if they will charge same 30% apple does, they will go to 10-15% tops for pay to play games and subscription kind of apps.
Epic takes 12% for their PC Game sales, which is reasonable in my opinion.
I know a bunch of clients we develop web sites/apps for that charge less money because they refuse to publish their apps in the apple app store and simply use progressive web app we develop for them.
 
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