Apple Releases Bootcamp 1.3

[Amdahl]

Trackpad gestures now work, new ATI drivers for MBP

I just installed 1.3 on C2D MBP.

It does provide a refresh of the ATI drivers.

It does NOT provide new drivers for the Intel GMA on C2D Macbook.

Trackpad gestures work(or don't) the same as before(my subject line is misleading); nothing new with it.

 

[Evangelion]

I was generalizing, of course, and there will always be exceptions, but for the most part I've used Macs and Windows extensively and I've never seen a can't-live-without-it app on Windows--and that includes games.

Just because something is true for you, does not mean that it must be so for everybody.

There are some exceptions to the rule with games too but generally, if a game is worth playing, it's going to get to the Mac.

Generally speaking, the games I like receive excellent reviews and they are best-of-breed games. They ARE "worth playing" for me. Sure, Joe Sixpack might not be interested in strategy-games and simulations (after all, those games need attention-span that exceeds five minutes), but that does not mean that they are not "worth playing".

 

[inkswamp]

So let me get this straight.

1) You exclude yourself from the category of "gamers."
2) You declare that you know what games are "worth playing."
3) You claim knowledge about the "gaming mindset."
4) You claim to know what games "most people... think really matter."

1. No, I'm just not a hardcore gamer. I mentioned owning a console (own several actually.) I'm not sure how you get that I'm excluding myself from being a gamer.

2. No, I didn't. I said that the games that come along that really matter to people outside the hardcore gamer bubble come to the Mac.

3. I know plenty of hardcore gamers and they have a wildly distorted view of what games are "important."

4. Again, no. I'm thinking in terms of buzz outside the hardcore gamer realm. And before someone whips out HalfLife 2 again, please bear in mind that I admitted that I was generalizing. There are some exceptions.

I refer you to https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/3723361/ for many reasons why you're flat out wrong. "Some" exceptions? Don't kid yourself. Bootcamp is incredibly important for Apple if they want to appeal to any gamers, not just the hardcore ones.

So you're suggesting that Apple will appeal to hardcore gamers by giving them a platform upon which they can install software that allows them to install Windows that allows them to install games? Wah? Why not just go the PC route and cut a few steps out of the process as well as allowing for video cards not offered by Apple and probably a few bucks cheaper? How does Bootcamp make Macs more attractive to hardcore gamers? I seriously doubt it's having that kind of effect.

I consider myself a gamer but Bootcamp doesn't mean squat to me personally. I just don't play on the computer much. I have consoles and play there. The logical fallacy here is that you're assuming that to be a gamer, one must be talking about PCs.

Hardcore gamers are a subset of a subset of users, and therefore, a fringe group. The games that matter to the larger computing world make it to the Mac. The majority of what doesn't is second-tier. That's just my view from outside the hardcore gamer bubble. I understand that you disagree, but you should entertain the possibility that you have a distorted view of it. I think if you ask around amongst average computer users, you'll discover that most people haven't even heard of the titles listed in the post you refer to.

 

[Evangelion]

3. I know plenty of hardcore gamers and they have a wildly distorted view of what games are "important."

Why do I get the feeling that your logic goes something like this:

Game that is available on Windows but not on the Mac: No important
Game that is available on both platforms: Important
If some important game is not ported to the Mac, then it's not important.
Therefore, all important games are ported to the Mac

Isn't that circular reasoning in the extreme?

Who gets to decide what games are important and what are not? The games I play are important to me. And 99% of them are not available on the Mac. I don't care one bit what someone else deems "important" or not. And I don't consider myself to be "hardcore-gamer". My games might not be in the top-10 list but they are still excellent games that are "worth playing".

Why not just go the PC route and cut a few steps out of the process as well as allowing for video cards not offered by Apple and probably a few bucks cheaper?

Because I have no interest in owning more than one computer? Because Macs CAN play those games just fine, assuming I run Windows on it.

 

[Spoony Bard]

1. No, I'm just not a hardcore gamer. I mentioned owning a console (own several actually.) I'm not sure how you get that I'm excluding myself from being a gamer.

The problem is that gamers are...

What I inferred from the second quote is that you are separate from the "gamers" you're describing. You did not state that you were talking about hardcore gamers in particular. You've now clarified this.

2. No, I didn't. I said that the games that come along that really matter to people outside the hardcore gamer bubble come to the Mac.

Alright, I'll ammend my point: You declare that you know what games are "worth playing" for all casual gamers.

3. I know plenty of hardcore gamers and they have a wildly distorted view of what games are "important."

So because you know "plenty of hardcore gamers" and you label yourself a "casual gamer/typical consumer," you feel you're able to speak for all gamers? All "typical" consumers, perhaps?

And even if what you say about "wildly distorted" views is true about your acquaintances, several other posters have listed games that are clearly the "must-have" variety. We're not talking about niche-market games. We're talking about games that qualify and have been awarded for game of the year in multiple genres. Without Bootcamp, the Mac excludes a huge number of gamers, not just the hardcore.

4. Again, no. I'm thinking in terms of buzz outside the hardcore gamer realm. And before someone whips out HalfLife 2 again, please bear in mind that I admitted that I was generalizing. There are some exceptions.

Again, no. Not some exceptions. A lot of exceptions. So many that it can't be anything but the rule.

So you're suggesting that Apple will appeal to hardcore gamers by giving them a platform upon which they can install software that allows them to install Windows that allows them to install games? Wah? Why not just go the PC route and cut a few steps out of the process as well as allowing for video cards not offered by Apple and probably a few bucks cheaper? How does Bootcamp make Macs more attractive to hardcore gamers? I seriously doubt it's having that kind of effect.

That's exactly what I'm saying. There are people who, for various reasons, need/want PC software and the Mac experience in the same package. I am one of those people. Bootcamp is one key reason why I chose a Mac as a mobile solution. And yes, I know of many others who feel the same way.

But most importantly, Bootcamp makes Macs more attractive to all PC users; this includes hardcore gamers.

I consider myself a gamer but Bootcamp doesn't mean squat to me personally. I just don't play on the computer much. I have consoles and play there. The logical fallacy here is that you're assuming that to be a gamer, one must be talking about PCs.

You'll have to show me just where I said/implied that; I don't believe I did. But we are talking about computer software, yes? Macs & PCs? Not sure what your point is here.

Hardcore gamers are a subset of a subset of users, and therefore, a fringe group.

Another poster has already mentioned that Valve's Steam now has over 13 million subscribers. Would you call 13 million people a fringe group? And that's just Valve.

The games that matter to the larger computing world make it to the Mac. The majority of what doesn't is second-tier. That's just my view from outside the hardcore gamer bubble. I understand that you disagree, but you should entertain the possibility that you have a distorted view of it. I think if you ask around amongst average computer users, you'll discover that most people haven't even heard of the titles listed in the post you refer to.

You're saying that the games that matter to the people who don't really care about games make it to the Mac.

 

[dgdosen]

I'm with you. I just ponied up for the new parallels release. I love my mac, but my work is in .Net developing software that only runs on windows. It is useful to have virtualization at home that allows me to work on windows stuff remotely when I need to.

What I don't want is to reboot every couple of minutes to switch between work and e-mail, etc. Parallels does a great job.

I'd like to be with you, but virtualization just isn't there. I upgraded to Parallels 3.0 and while perf is acceptable running the VM, doing so eats up you power significanly. If I were to use these VMs on a Mac Pro or something plugged in all the time - I'm with you. But for something you want to run on a laptop, under battery power? We've got a long ways to go

 

[winmacguy]

Which, in my experience, aren't worth the effort. If an app (including games) is good enough, it makes it over to the Mac. I love when Windows users slam Macs for a lack of games. To be clear, it's a lack of second-tier games that most people really don't give a crap about.

So does that mean that something like System Shock 2 would be playable on bootcamp?

 

[SeanMcg]

...

Question 1 - So i can use my novation remote keyboard with built in soundcard (USB) with the drivers written by novation?

Once you're up and running in XP, you run it like you would any other machine. I can't see why any device that adheres to the USB specification couldn't be used after installing the drivers. USB is a standard, so after that, it's all a matter of talking to the operating system. As long as the drivers don't have any issue with the chipset, you should be good-to-go.

2 - I can download the latest video card driver from nVidia (this one has already been answered, thanks!)

I did mention this myself earlier, but I'll mention it again. Run the NVIDIAXPMOBILE.EXE package to install the video drivers for the new MacBook Pro.

3 - Does a MBPro run windows well? I'm not asking if Windows is a good OS, we are all aware of the limitations and advantages of Windows and it would be boring to sit through another OSX vs. Windows debate. How does this hardware perform as a Windows computer compared to a Dell, Shuttle, Asus etc. computer that was built primarily as a Windows box?

I can't give you a detailed comparative analysis across those machines, however, I can tell you my impressions. Once I installed the proper drivers, especially the video, system performance, based on subjectively personal interaction, was the same as, or better than, any WINTEL laptop I have worked on, and that is a few of them, the most recent being an HP COMPAQ 6400, which does use integrated graphics. I will say this: I set XP to Windows Classic mode and turn off ALL the "eye-candy" to include the garish colored task bar and the fade effects. I've always found that to improve response. Since I do that on all my Windows environments, my impressions concerning response are consistent.

The short time I've had XP installed on my MBP ( ) it has worked wonderfully, with the exception of QuickTime, although that was minor. It connected to my FiOS router without any problems, and I was browsing the web, posting some stuff here, just as quickly as any other WINTEL box I've used. I was able to open the iTunes Library on my iMacG5 on my home network and stream it down to my laptop. Cool.

One other way to get the drivers over to the Windows partition is to use VMWare. I haven't used Parallels, but using VMWare Fusion Beta, I was able to write the drivers to a folder in my home directory. Then, using Fusion, I started up the XP load on my Boot Camp partition, referenced the directory (\\.host\username\path) and copied the folder over to the Windows install. I then shut down the virtual environment and rebooted into XP. That is one of the advantages of using a virtualization package AND Boot Camp together.

 

[lamadude]

If an app (including games) is good enough, it makes it over to the Mac.

No it doesn't, as said before, most good games don't get ported to the mac, and even when they are, they are often overpriced and under-performing.

 

[Fuchal]

So does that mean that something like System Shock 2 would be playable on bootcamp?

Why, yes, yes it is. And its still terrifying.

 

[pjarvi]

Is it possible to upgrade my XP partition to Vista? Or would I have to start from the beginning and lose all of my files? Knowing this would save me a lot of time.

I successfully updated from XP to Vista Home Premium using the upgrade version. There are a few things to note:

-If your XP partition is currently FAT32 you will need to change it to NTFS. You can do this by running the following from a command prompt: CONVERT C: /FS:NTFS
It will throw up an error that it cannot be done at this time, but will offer the option to do it on the next bootup, select that option and restart.

-You need something like 10GB free on the Windows partition in order to install Vista. I have my Windows partition set to 30GB, but only had 2GB free so I ended up having to delete a bunch of stuff to free up enough room to install.

-The Vista upgrade has to be launched from within Windows XP, you cannot install by booting from the disc. If you try to do so, it will give an error after entering your CD-Key that the install has to be done from within Windows.

-You will want to have a USB keyboard/mouse handy if you currently use Bluetooth one's.

So: once you have converted your Windows partition to NTFS, and have at least 10GB free, boot into Windows XP and insert the Vista upgrade disc. Then, just follow the prompts for installing Vista.

Oh, and don't worry about converting to NTFS, you won't lose any data (well you shouldn't but this Microsoft after all). It doesn't format the partition, just converts it.

 

[anirban]

Use only 32bit Windows?

I just read the user guide for installing BootCamp 1.3. On page 4, it says that I should install only 32bit version of Windows. I am thinking of purchasing a new 15" MBP and installing Windows on it. I have both the 64bit and the 32bit versions.

I was just wondering if anyone has tried installing 64bit version on their MBPs, and what could possibly go wrong. Thanks a lot!

 

[cpnorris]

I just read the user guide for installing BootCamp 1.3. On page 4, it says that I should install only 32bit version of Windows. I am thinking of purchasing a new 15" MBP and installing Windows on it. I have both the 64bit and the 32bit versions.

I was just wondering if anyone has tried installing 64bit version on their MBPs, and what could possibly go wrong. Thanks a lot!

I am wondering the same thing.....

....also, where do most people get their copies of Windows XP?

 

[SeaFox]

I am wondering the same thing.....

....also, where do most people get their copies of Windows XP?

Newegg.

I was wondering if I should buy a copy of XP Pro now, since XP wont be available much longer and I don't know if I'll be buying my next Mac before its gone.

 

[cpnorris]

So on Newegg.com there are 2 different XP packages:

1. XP Professional SP2B 1 Pack - OEM for $139

2. XP Professional SP2 - Retail for $279

Looks like OEM just doesn't come with free MS support. Anyone know of any other differences besides the obvious price difference? Will option 1 work for the MBP with Bootcamp?

 

[SeaFox]

So on Newegg.com there are 2 different XP packages:

1. XP Professional SP2B 1 Pack - OEM for $139

2. XP Professional SP2 - Retail for $279

Looks like OEM just doesn't come with free MS support. Anyone know of any other differences besides the obvious price difference? Will option 1 work for the MBP with Bootcamp?

The obvious difference is it is an OEM license, which means it is bound to the hardware you install it on. I'll give you an idea how this works in PC terms.

Lets say I buy a Dell, and it comes with Windows XP, it comes with an OEM license. Five years later I decide to build myself a new PC. I need an OS for it. I can't just take the install discs I got for the Dell and install windows on the new machine, because the license is for the machine it was originally installed on by Dell.

Similarly, if you buy an OEM Windows and install it on your MacBook Pro, the Windows is now stuck to that machine. If you trade up, and get a new MacBook, you can't legally take the Windows off the old one and use it on your new one. You would have to sell your Windows license with your old machine and buy a new one for your new machine This is why the OEM bundle has your license key on an actual sticker you are supposed to affix to the computer. It's not just so you don't lose track of the license key, it's because the license is now inseparable from the hardware by legal definitions.

OEM licenses are full of fuzzy legal issues. By their own terms, they have to be purchased along with a major hardware component of the machine it will be used on (these licenses are meant to be used by people building computers after all). Eligible components would include the processor and the motherboard, but I've had resellers tell me a hard drive or a case would qualify. The shadier ones will sell one without anything in particular being purchased with it, or they'll throw an item in for free like a case fan and say "there's the hardware component so this is legit". Arguably you should be required to by the component with the license. What if you're a savvy shopper and are buying everything from different suppliers? As long as you have all the pieces and are abiding by the other terms it should be fine.

Also, what if you have to do a major repair? Technically, if you had to replace your motherboard, you would need to by a new Windows license too (there are horror stories on the Internet about people caught in this issue with eMachines or Gateway).

What if you build a new machine and use components from the old one, or build the new one from scratch and have the old one destroyed?

 

[Ti_Poussin]

Pretty much sums up how I feel too. Their Linux support is abysmal too, with no tools or shared folders.

Just make a partition in Linux format. Mount them in both. Or use ssh and scp to connect to the other machine. That should do the trick.

 

[RootAg]

Backlighting

I just installed Bootcamp 1.3 (I am posting via IE 7) on my MBP. I like that all the function keys (volume, brightness, eject) now show a little graphic on the screen just like OS X.

The only problem is that keyboard Backlighting doesn't work. When I press Fn-F8 Fn-F9 or Fn-F10, it shows the universal circle-with-line-through symbol that it is not active, available, whatever! How do I active backlighting?

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Why do I get the feeling that your logic goes something like this:

Game that is available on Windows but not on the Mac: No important
Game that is available on both platforms: Important

I just checked with a local 'everything' store chain, and they have a small electronics department that carries consoles, a few PCs, and a little PC software. Based on their target, they do best if they stock high-selling games to the 'general public', not just hardcore gamers. As of today, this is their top 10 selling PC games list:

1. WoW Burning Crusade*
2. WoW*
3. Lord of the Rings Online: Shadow of Angmar
4. Command and Conquer Tiberium Wars
5. Sims 2 Seasons*
6. Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl
7. Elder Scrolls Oblivion Shivering Isles
8. Supreme Commander
9. Sims 2 Deluxe*
10. Sims 2 Pets*

Of those 10, 5 are available for the Mac. (the ones with *s) Yes, it's only two 'games' plus three 'add-ons', but that's still 50% of the items they sell on their top 10 list that are compatible with or available separately for the Mac. I'm not declaring the other games 'unimportant', but if you take just the top 10 list from IGN or another 'hardcore gamer' website, it will seem significantly more skewed against the Mac than reality.

 

[ilkevinli]

I installed the new bootcamp 1.3 drivers in XP and everyting worked except there are no drivers for the isight. At least thats what the device manager is showing.

Anyone else ?

 

[digitalbiker]

Does anyone know if Bootcamp 1.3 makes it any easier to install multiple OS's?

I want to set up Vista and Red Hat in boot camp partitions and have three boot options. OSX, Vista, or Red Hat.

As I understand it, Apple only supports the Vista installation but there were tricks you could use to get Linux on a seperate partition that boot camp interpreted as windows. The biggest draw back was that the boot loader only allowed two boot options, OS X or bootcamp windows. Therefore it was really difficult to get three OS's because there is no bootloader option for the third OS.

Has any of this changed? It would be nice if Apple added the linux option support and allowed more than one additional OS in their boot loader.

 

[SeaFox]

Does anyone know if Bootcamp 1.3 makes it any easier to install multiple OS's?

I want to set up Vista and Red Hat in boot camp partitions and have three boot options. OSX, Vista, or Red Hat.

As I understand it, Apple only supports the Vista installation but there were tricks you could use to get Linux on a seperate partition that boot camp interpreted as windows. The biggest draw back was that the boot loader only allowed two boot options, OS X or bootcamp windows. Therefore it was really difficult to get three OS's because there is no bootloader option for the third OS.

Has any of this changed? It would be nice if Apple added the linux option support and allowed more than one additional OS in their boot loader.

http://wiki.onmac.net/index.php/Triple_Boot_via_BootCamp

But I seem to recal some kind of three-way bootloader (with a graphical GUI). It wasn't Bootcamp but was made to look similar to it.

 

[HFU]

Brightness F1/F2 still broken in Boot Camp 1.3

The brightness Fn+ F1/F2 key still increments brightness in small amount only until the 15th notch, the 16th notch will show a huge jump in brightness which is too bright from 15th notch (e.g. it's like missing a good range of other brightness setting). The brightness range need to be reconfigured to match the brightness increment range under OSX.

 

[macfan881]

The combination of new iMacs and the upcoming release of Leopard has some analysts believing that Apple might disclose so-called "secret features" in the operating system such as the ability to run the Macintosh and Windows operating systems at the same time without having to reboot the Mac.

"This would serve as a major catalyst for Mac sales," said Shaw Wu, who covers Apple for American Technology Research. Wu believes the main reason Leopard was delayed until October was in order for Apple to give its developers more time to test out the dual operating system abilities and other features.

i Agree with this too i mean bootcamp is the least thing we have heard about this and rember bootcamp will be avallible for 30 bucks for people who dont have leopard. to this i see thats a given i mean if people wanna get bootcamp for leopard i belive people will buy leopard if it has the non dual boot but if it has what it has now i dont see many people upgrading for that also .

 

[casik]

all this talk about gaming makes me laugh.

i used to use windows
and then i met mac
and i realized how much windows and i were not meant for eachother

i showed my friends mac
they all loved him
and they realized how much windows was not meant for them either

i look back on all this and it's not that i hate microsoft
i just think of them as the old geezer who sits around doing the same thing day after day after day

apple is the cute blond that presents herself well

i decided i would rather hang out with my cute blonde than play video games with an old boring geezer.

but the cute blonde hates video games, so what choice do i have?