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Mexican's don't use hispanic to refer to ourselves. Anyone born here would be mexican or if you became a citizen you would be also. Just like anyone that becomes citizens of the usa are american's. White people, "sons of europeans", are criollo's. You would be caucasian, but your wife would be criollo and your kids would be criollo as someone of european ethnicity born in mexico. Nobody would call them "hispanic" here, latino would be used. Mixed race people are mestizo's and indidgenous are, well indigeno. These 3 are 90 something percent of the races, there are negro's, etc.

I wouldn't expect you to. Hell, I barely even use the word myself when talking to or about someone directly. It'd be like me saying I'm a North American caucasian. Technically, it's correct, but I'd be using a demographic term to refer to myself, and it'd be all kinds of weird and awkward.

...I would get looks.

Like if I'm talking about Bill, he'd be Bill the Mexican, or Peruvian, or Puerto Rican. Nor would I use it when talking about Mexicans, or Peruvians, or Puerto Ricans specifically. Like I wouldn't say hispanics make great food. I'd say Mexicans make great food. But if I were talking about Mexicans, and Peruvians, and Puerto Ricans as a single entity, then I'd refer to that group as hispanic.

Most of the time, the word only comes up in politics or paperwork. It's not specific at all, just...like I said...an umbrella term.
 
Heaven forbid the workforce actually reflects the demographic make up of the entire population.

In that case, there is Discrimination in the NFL, NBA, NHL against shorter Asian men.

"workforce actually reflects the demographic make up of the entire population."
 
Ethnicity surveys are bogus.
They almost always want us to pick ONE (1) box.
I am many ethnicities.
Most of all, I'm American.
My people met my people at the shore, interbred and mixed it up.
That is how it is for a great many people in our great country.
That mixing is part of what makes America great.
We are a blended family.


Ethnicity questions should be deleted from all these sorts of reports and surveys.
 
Ethnicity surveys are bogus.
They almost always want us to pick ONE (1) box.
I am many ethnicities.
Most of all, I'm American.
My people met my people at the shore, interbred and mixed it up.
That is how it is for a great many people in our great country.
That mixing is part of what makes America great.
We are a blended family.


Ethnicity questions should be deleted from all these sorts of reports and surveys.

Marketing firms, most companies, and the Census won't agree. And as much as I believe Apple doesn't use any quota system(cause no proof whatsoever) when hiring, you best believe that they are using the fact of having diverse employees as publicity.
 
Ethnicity surveys are bogus.
They almost always want us to pick ONE (1) box.
I am many ethnicities.
Most of all, I'm American.
My people met my people at the shore, interbred and mixed it up.
That is how it is for a great many people in our great country.
That mixing is part of what makes America great.
We are a blended family.


Ethnicity questions should be deleted from all these sorts of reports and surveys.

They aren't compulsory, so you could just skip that section.
 
LOL! "Supporter of global warming"

No one here is a supporter of global warming, it's a real phenomenon which very may well destroy the planet as we currently know it.

Now tell me, what's wrong with gay marriage? How does it affect you? Do you have to give up some of your rights?



Uhhh help please.

Well I think global warming (and no I won't call it climate change) is BS. I'm sure that wouldn't fall under Tim Cook's definition of "diversity".
 
There are a lot of people here who act as if the past never happened.

I am pretty confident that Apple will not start hiring "B" and "C" candidates in the name of being more "racial-" or gender-diverse. What would be cool is if they put more effort in finding potential "A-level" candidates of color in the world's universities, and grooming and recruiting people for the company. If Apple would make some STEM developments in developing nations, encouraging some of the best and brightest into STEM, then cultivating future talent.

As someone who happens to be a Black American, it is something that I would like to see. Hire the best, I have no problem with that. However, I laud Apple in committing to an effort to find (and hopefully cultivate) new talent...that is an untapped resource for new ideas.

Agreed. Right there with you!

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I observe the correct definition, which to me in this case has no inherent positive or negative connotations. I guess that's the key issue: you'd rather avoid using the correct term since to many it automatically implies a negative connotation. I'd rather use the correct term and explain that it's not inherently negative and in specific cases might be a good thing.



I never stated that I don't believe a bias exist. What I believe is that there is a bias, but there are also a lot of other factors which lead to a ratio imbalance, so it's difficult to discern whether the imbalance comes from unfair discrimination or other, potentially legit factors and how much is to be accounted to the unfair discrimination.

As example, if you employ positive discrimination to try to correct the bias and reach 55% of white workers, is that good enough? Or are you still under the mark? Or maybe you overcompensated and are over the mark? You have no way to know if you cannot define the supposedly "unbiased" ratio, which is not an easy thing to do.

Also, even if there is an issue to correct, in my opinion this kind of positive discrimination is only a workaround, not a proper solution. To make a car analogy, it's like having a car which pulls to the right. The "positive discrimination" solution is to always steer slightly to the left if you want to go straight: you will go straight, but you have to actively correct your direction, and you'll always have to if you don't fix the underlying problem.

Said that, not all workarounds are a bad thing as long as they are recognized as such and you don't forget to fix the underlying problem in the long term... which is sadly what tends to happen when workarounds are involved.



That's exactly the "proper solution" I'm talking about, but I doubt it will ultimately lead to perfectly matching ratios: as I said I believe there are other factors beside discrimination which might lead to an imbalance, and that imbalance is not necessarily unfair.

Even though we disagree on a few points, I love that you are able to rationally debate your side of the argument. I completely understand what you are saying. Cheers to that!
 
As an AAPL shareholder, I'd rather have Tim focused on ensuring that Apple is hiring the best talent, not the most diverse. If that means it's 100% female then so be it. Just don't waste your precious time on this diversity nonsense other than as a PR stunt please.
 
I agree with this, but the work place needs to give a 100% opportunity regardless of sex and ethnicity. Hire the best.

Bit "the best" doesn't count people that didn't stand a chance to get on an "Apple track" .. Back in high school. Just having a 4-year degree cuts to only about 25% of Americans and that number has bias of income/race already built in. Let's add more bias for advanced degrees and Tech-based studies.. Which is heavily male biased... Apple is probably offering jobs to as many women and minorities that can show up and pass the requirements to do the job. Assuming they finish at a top college and have money to zip off to The Bay Area...
 
Bit "the best" doesn't count people that didn't stand a chance to get on an "Apple track" .. Back in high school. Just having a 4-year degree cuts to only about 25% of Americans and that number has bias of income/race already built in. Let's add more bias for advanced degrees and Tech-based studies.. Which is heavily male biased... Apple is probably offering jobs to as many women and minorities that can show up and pass the requirements to do the job. Assuming they finish at a top college and have money to zip off to The Bay Area...

Your definition of best fails. Best means best.

Gender hiring is probably dumber than race based hiring, but both are pretty dumb. As a large corporation Apple can smooth out their differences (as they must do or face the law).

I would like to see corporations stop pretending at diversity or really embrace it and make sure every unit meets the diversity requirements. The machine coding team should have the same ethnic and gender quotas that the human resource department has. And if they are trying to be diverse, explain why the art team does not the same ethinic/gender make up as the microchip design team or accounting team.

This is what elite medical schools and law schools do because they are pure believers in diversity of genetic and historical origins (not ideas - that would be crazy).
 
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What's to be unhappy about? Other than the fact that there is a significant shortage of white people vis-a-vis the overall population?

Population of California vs Population of Apple
Cali Whites 73%
Apple Whites 55%
whites severely underrepresented

Cali Asians 14%
Apple Asians 15%
almost spot on, getting more than their "fair share" though

Cali Hispanics 38%
Apple Hispanics 11%
severely underrepresented*

Cali Blacks 7%
Apple Blacks 7%
perfect

So what is he upset about? Either he wants more whites or more Hispanics, as everything else is spot on, or perhaps he is also "unsatisfied" with the population of the state of California itself and wants to change that to some fantastical arbitrary makeup. *As for Hispanics, California is the supermarket of America and large numbers of Hispanics are migrant workers there in the agriculture industry.

Seriously, I'd like him to answer the question of what he is not satisfied about. I'm truly curious. I can't imagine his answer is that he wants more white males on the workforce.
 
It's silly to call for diversity when Tim Cook himself continues to hide his homossexuality. Is this the kind of example he wants to set at Apple? "Stay hidden and don't tell anyone about it"?

You win the Most Disgusting Comment of the Day Award. What somebody wants to discuss or not discuss about their personal life is their business and not yours. Go sit in the corner, wash your mind out with soap, and think about the inappropriateness of your comment.
 
What's to be unhappy about? Other than the fact that there is a significant shortage of white people vis-a-vis the overall population?

Population of California vs Population of Apple
Cali Whites 73%
Apple Whites 55%
whites severely underrepresented

Cali Asians 14%
Apple Asians 15%
almost spot on, getting more than their "fair share" though

Cali Hispanics 38%
Apple Hispanics 11%
severely underrepresented*

Cali Blacks 7%
Apple Blacks 7%
perfect

So what is he upset about? Either he wants more whites or more Hispanics, as everything else is spot on, or perhaps he is also "unsatisfied" with the population of the state of California itself and wants to change that to some fantastical arbitrary makeup. *As for Hispanics, California is the supermarket of America and large numbers of Hispanics are migrant workers there in the agriculture industry.

Seriously, I'd like him to answer the question of what he is not satisfied about. I'm truly curious. I can't imagine his answer is that he wants more white males on the workforce.

Yes, this is how demographics works. :rolleyes: Seriously, go back to math class, this isn't how the ratio works given the percentage of US white Americans is 72% as of the 2010 Census. When you figure out how to appropriately calculate the differences, give us a response.
 
I can't call you an idiot, because that will get me into trouble with Macrumors

I'm happy that you are perfectly capable of imagining what I would reply, at least.

I can tell you that I am heterosexual and I've never told anyone that I was! Am I hiding my sexual preference?

Have you ever seen a company stating "100% of our workers are white males"? Meanwhile, here we have Apple stating they have 55% of white workers (less than the percentage of white people in their state), with Tim Cook stating he would like to improve those numbers. Guess why? Because of diversity. Because it's important to tell minorities that they are represented and to show them how, despite everything they have suffered, they can succeed. Why do you think Cook has even talked about this subject?

It's not surpring that Mr "heterossexual white male who has always had an easy life" cannot understand the concept; but if the goal behind the diversity talk is to empower minorities, the fact Cook hides his homossexuality is very far from being empowering. And for those who missed their English classes, hiding is not the same as not screaming something on the street; if Cook simply didn't hide it and just lived his life, so eventually he would be seen with a partner, it would make his diversity efforts far more sincere than they are.

You win the Most Disgusting Comment of the Day Award. What somebody wants to discuss or not discuss about their personal life is their business and not yours. Go sit in the corner, wash your mind out with soap, and think about the inappropriateness of your comment.

Cook's comments have a no small degree of hipocrisy. He claims to cherish diversity, but through his actions what he actually provides is an example of how diversity must stay hidden and muffled in order to succeed. Does he believe that if he stopped hiding his sexuality — if he were actually seen with a man — that he would be less successful? And if he really believes that, what does it tell us about what he really thinks about diversity?
 
the fact Cook hides his homossexuality is very far from being empowering.

Is he hiding it, or simply choosing not to put his personal life on public display? Just because he's a gay man who's obtained a lofty position doesn't mean he's contractually obligated to empower the LGBT community, and bring up his sexuality every chance he gets. If he doesn't want to talk about it, he doesn't want to talk about it. It doesn't mean he's ashamed of it, just that he doesn't want to talk about it.
 
So the answer is no. I'm not a supporter of gay marriage or global warming so I'm sure Cook would never hire me. Diverse is fine so long as it confirms to the majority political view inside the walls of the mothership.

I'm not a supporter of global warming either! :D
(or any type of marriage, btw)

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I'm still trying to figure out how you came up with a demographic spread that accounts for 132% of the population.

...are there, like, extra people or something?

The numbers came straight from the Macrumors headline for Apple and US Census Bureau for California
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html

I'm guessing it has something to do with the fact that "Hispanic" is not a race.
 
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