Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
This isn't me trying to say one race is better than the other or for such and such reasons, the semantics aren't important. I was just trying to imply that in sport there are very real and well documented physiological differences between races.

Can you please point me to a reputable (peer reviewed) study finding differences in athletic performance based on "physiological differences between the races"?

There are differences in which racial groups dominate which sports, but the far more likely explanation than physiological differences is cultural differences.

Even talking about physiologic traits by "race" is kinda nonsensical. Even if there were some proof of physiological differences among *ethnic* groups (for example that certain tribes in Kenya are predisposed to success at distance running, or certain groups from island nations were predisposed to be good swimmers), extrapolating that to everyone who shares the same skin color (which is basically what we mean by "race" in the US) would have NO basis in science.
 
Can you please point me to a reputable (peer reviewed) study finding differences in athletic performance based on "physiological differences between the races"?

There are differences in which racial groups dominate which sports, but the far more likely explanation than physiological differences is cultural differences.

Even talking about physiologic traits by "race" is kinda nonsensical. Even if there were some proof of physiological differences among *ethnic* groups (for example that certain tribes in Kenya are predisposed to success at distance running, or certain groups from island nations were predisposed to be good swimmers), extrapolating that to everyone who shares the same skin color (which is basically what we mean by "race" in the US) would have NO basis in science.

You shouldn’t need a study. It should be common sense. We are different, fact. Dogs are different, cats are different. Our skin colours means we react to sunlight differently, is it not beyond the bounds of possibility that there are other small things that make a difference?
Look at your average Negro and your average Mongoloid. There may have been cultural differences in the past that have influenced how they appear now but the fact is that now they are different. One is usually taller than the other for example. I suggest then that the longer limbs might predispose to faster running? Again the differences may be small but so is a difference of maybe 1/2 a second over a distance of 200m.
It’s not a study and I can’t prove it. But I’m open to the fact that we may be different and those differences may extend to more than just my hair is blond and yours is auburn. What I need you not to do, (and I don’t mean you personally), is vilify me for it.

Our culture/environment may influence what we do in the immediate but over time, (significant time maybe), makes a particular sub species physically different. FACT.

What we all need to comes to terms with is that we are all susceptible to prejudice and work on improving it. That means affording us all the same opportunities. It’s unfortunate that fair isn’t always that though as we can only see things from our own point of view.
We can’t always treat everybody the same and never will.
 
Last edited:
You shouldn’t need a study. It should be common sense. We are different, fact. Dogs are different, cats are different. Our skin colours means we react to sunlight differently, is it not beyond the bounds of possibility that there are other small things that make a difference?
Look at your average Negro and your average Mongoloid. There may have been cultural differences in the past that have influenced how they appear now but the fact is that now they are different. One is usually taller than the other for example. I suggest then that the longer limbs might predispose to faster running?

Our culture may influence what we do in the immediate but over time, (significant time maybe), it makes a particular sub species physically different. FACT.

There's a huge gap between physical and physiological, the latter of which, when used in this context, assumes vast differences between the races, to the point the different races would actually be different race.

That isn't the case. The differences are mostly environmental adaptations, and are almost miniscule changes when considered against the vast whole. Like the distinction between a black person and a white person are almost razor thin. A black person has darker skin and generally less body fat because that's a more advantageous build for a hot environment where the sun's beating down on you 24/7. While people tend to be a little more barrell chested, and have more body fat because that's a good fit for mountainous, cold environments like what you get in Europe. Beyond that though, there aren't any differences between a black person and a white person. We can donate blood between each other, share organs, have kids, all that good stuff. Mentally we're the same, having the same brain sizes, same neuronal count, same neural pathways performing similar tasks, etc. etc. Beyond the superficial, there are no differences between black, white, asian, whatever.

Height, facial features, skin tone...it's not like comparing dogs and cats. It's like comparing a calico cat and a piebald cat from the same litter.

edit: See, you're saying stuff like "species" and "subspecies" when referring to the different races, which is entirely the wrong nomenclature. Considering that humanity has among the least amount of genetic diversity of any animal species on earth, and you don't have to go back that far to find a common ancestor, the better way to describe the races is to refer to them as a different family lineage. We're all cousins, a few hundred times removed.

The Out of Africa diaspora wasn't all that long ago evolutionarily speaking. There hasn't been nearly enough time for all these different branches to evolve into anything even remotely different.
 
Last edited:
Taken from a quick Google because I couldn't be bothered typing:

Positive discrimination is the process of giving preferential treatment, especially in employment, to minority groups of society that have been prejudiced against in the past. It should be noted that ‘preferential treatment’ does not mean that these individuals will automatically be preferred to another candidate, but rather should two candidates be deemed a similar level, the individual from the minority group will be preferred.

For example, should two candidates who are equally matched in skills go for a job and one is from a minority group and one isn’t, then positive discrimination will see that the former candidate will receive the job offer.

The idea of positive discrimination came from the US where an ‘affirmative action’ programme has been used to try and ensure the make-up of certain work places reflects that of society. It should be noted that under UK law you cannot discriminate against somebody because of their race, sex or social background as that would be against the law.

Typical Brit trying to prove how clever they are. All you proved is your laziness.
 
There's a huge gap between physical and physiological, the latter of which, when used in this context, assumes vast differences between the races, to the point the different races would actually be different race.



Height, facial features, skin tone...it's not like comparing dogs and cats. It's like comparing a calico cat and a piebald cat from the same litter.

Just for the sake of simplicity. Tell me.
Who on average is taller. A black guy or chinese guy? Explain it pls.
Now, out of those two averages which do you reckon would clear 100m faster? Now there may be little difference between two athletes of the same height but surely you can see that again, black people are usually taller.

Now explain this physiological difference.
 
When did this person ever say this? They said that in a perfect world where numbers align with other numbers, an executive board would match our population data and mimic it.

It seems as if your fall back reply is to type out a few sentences with no substance, be obtuse, use the word illogical and then try to fit someone into some label. Are you just trying to get a rise out of people here? Can you try to offer counterpoints and argumentative data instead of just being hostile and dismissing a twisted version of what other people post?

Have I been offered any data to counterpoint? You are doing exactly what you accuse me of. Typical insubstantial troll behavior.
 
Care to point out what was specifically irrational? I don't consider myself a particularly irrational person, though I accept that rationality can be hard to judge in yourself. If you can provide some compelling reason for categorizing my post as irrational, then by all means do so, and I'll become a better person as a result.

On another note, "all" of my other posts? This is my fourth on this thread, and only one of my prior posts (the one you were supposedly commenting on) contained an actual argument. Have you been stalking me across the MacRumors forums?

I sent my armed guards to track your proceedings in Beijing, General.

----------

It was obvious that the poster meant accurate representation based on the percentage of females to males in the general population. Being intentionally obtuse does not make you appear smarter...

S/he (it?) is the one being obtuse by stating that imbalanced representation is equal.

----------

...He's talking about matching gender equality in the workplace to the numbers in the population at large, which is 49/51.

Oh - thanks for the clarification! His/her words stated otherwise.

----------

He’s attempted some research and proved he’s right. Your reply proves your laziness.

Your reply proves your laziness because you slothfully categorize a "quick Google because I couldn't be bothered typing" (exact quote) as research! I swear you made me laugh out loud.
 
Now explain this physiological difference.

We have the same brain size, the same body structure, the same vascular systems, the same digestive system, the same nervous system, the same organ structure and placement. Physiologically, there are NO differences between the races.

Physically? Yeah, there are a few. But hell, they don't mean anything. Even the Chinese, a people known for being pretty short, occasionally produce someone who's 6'5".

Read my stealth edit above and reply to that.
 
I wish Apple didn't do this so I wouldn't have to watch all these white people playing victim and hear them whining about how 'unqualified' minorities are taking their jobs. Yet when the evidence shows that minorities are twice as likely to be unemployed even as college graduates they poo pooo the evidence without presenting any counter evidence of their own. :rolleyes:
 
I don't follow. If they have the chops to get into then, get through a top engineering school, why and how is it discriminatory to do something to encourage them to take that career path?

All respect due to you as I've seen your many intelligent posts, if they have the "chops", they shouldn't require Affirmative Action. Race / gender quotas only distort and mediocritize.
 
There's it's different because there's physical differences between races, just like there's next to no black swimmers in the Olympics or whites or Asians in the 100m. I don't have a problem when it comes to sport as there's scientific reasons behind it rather than racism.

I don't believe there's differences in intelligence between different races, only differences in culture and education.

Well that is certainly true for the EPL, the best teams foreign mangers and majority foreign players.:p



The English football team didn't even make out of the group.:p
 
All respect due to you as I've seen your many intelligent posts, if they have the "chops", they shouldn't require Affirmative Action. Race / gender quotas only distort and mediocritize.
I'm black and I don't even have a degree in comp sci and I've been asked on more than one occasion to bless several large tech firms with an interview. I don't like the idea that Apple is keeping track but on some level I do understand it. One of the companies I worked at tried to hire women specifically and only one of them that applied was qualified for the job and they hired her. So from that stand point I get it. I really do. I know there are not many black people who are interested in technology. Those aren't the only jobs available though. They can work at other capacities besides being a software engineer.
 
Last edited:
I'm black and I don't even have a degree in comp sci and I've been asked on more than one occasion to bless several large tech firms with an interview. I don't like the idea that Apple is keeping track but on some level I do understand it. One of the companies I worked at tried to hire women specifically and only one of them that applied was qualified for the job. So from that stand point I get it. I really do.

:steps into the minefield:

Ultimately, I don't think anyone truly likes affirmative action, black or white and in a perfect world, it'd be entirely unnecessary. I'm 100% sure any black person here would hate the idea that they were hired at their nice, high paying job simply because of the color of their skin, rather than their skills or intelligence. Well meaning though it may be, it's also a bit demeaning when you get right down to it. It doesn't consider your worth as a person.

But unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world, and there are people who will overlook you simply because you're black. If you're ever in a situation where you're easily the smartest, most qualified person in the room, and suspiciously, you end up getting skipped over for a number of white guys, well...you've got it to fall back on.
 
There's a huge gap between physical and physiological, the latter of which, when used in this context, assumes vast differences between the races, to the point the different races would actually be different race.

That isn't the case. The differences are mostly environmental adaptations, and are almost miniscule changes when considered against the vast whole.

Environmental and cultural differences don't explain everything.

Genetics do play a part. Like the fact that Africans (and African-Americans) have a genetic predisposition to a disease like Sickle Cell (a blood disorder). I see these kinds of patients in our hospital all the time. The sickle cell crisis admissions will always be a black person. Never some blonde white girl etc.

Tho certainly, now that we are talking about diseases as examples, there are gazillions of disorders and diseases which ARE cultural/environmental — like explaining how a large majority of black American adults are obese and have diabetes. Did God curse them with a racial disease there? Nope. It's because they are stuffing their faces with bad food. Most diabetes and obesity is highly preventable. Just like dying from lung cancer is highly preventable if you could refrain from smoking to begin with.

The disorders of obesity and diabetes in black Americans is totally cultural/environmental, and totally preventable. You don't see the vast majority of black AFRICANS living in Africa as a bunch of diabetic fat people (although they do have other health issues to deal with like Ebola and malaria). Nope. Many Africans in Africa Continent are lean and tall and skinny. They don't have access to crap American fast food like Mickey Ds and KFC. Their diet is culturally different than their American counterparts.

Cultural and environmental pressures (like the fact that McDonald's heavily advertises to the black community) means that many black (American) children will grow up with an appetite for unhealthy fatty food which will give them diabetes, will make them obese, and will shorten their lifespan. It's not because they were born fat or diabetic. It's because they did it to themselves…… or because their environment did it to them.
 
:steps into the minefield:

Ultimately, I don't think anyone truly likes affirmative action, black or white and in a perfect world, it'd be entirely unnecessary. I'm 100% sure any black person here would hate the idea that they were hired at their nice, high paying job simply because of the color of their skin, rather than their skills or intelligence. Well meaning though it may be, it's also a bit demeaning when you get right down to it. It doesn't consider your worth as a person.

But unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world, and there are people who will overlook you simply because you're black. If you're ever in a situation where you're easily the smartest, most qualified person in the room, and suspiciously, you end up getting skipped over for a number of white guys, well...you've got it to fall back on.

You sound very much like a champagne socialist, or limousine liberal. I'm guessing you haven't enjoyed much exposure to multiculturalism (just a guess, mind you) - either that or you have been somewhat sheltered - which I envy, if it is indeed the case.

You are, of course, referring to tokenization. And you claim that black people would prefer to not be tokenized, but Hollywood and American social and industrial history would demonstrate otherwise.

----------

Environmental and cultural differences don't explain everything.

Genetics do play a part. Like the fact that Africans (and African-Americans) have a genetic predisposition to a disease like Sickle Cell (a blood disorder). I see these kinds of patients in our hospital all the time. The sickle cell crisis admissions will always be a black person. Never some blonde white girl etc.

Tho certainly, now that we are talking about diseases as examples, there are gazillions of disorders and diseases which ARE cultural/environmental — like explaining how a large majority of black American adults are obese and have diabetes. Did God curse them with a racial disease there? Nope. It's because they are stuffing their faces with bad food. Most diabetes and obesity is highly preventable. Just like dying from lung cancer is highly preventable if you could refrain from smoking to begin with.

The disorders of obesity and diabetes in black Americans is totally cultural/environmental, and totally preventable. You don't see the vast majority of black AFRICANS living in Africa as a bunch of diabetic fat people (although they do have other health issues to deal with like Ebola and malaria). Nope. Many Africans in Africa Continent are lean and tall and skinny. They don't have access to crap American fast food like Mickey Ds and KFC. Their diet is culturally different than their American counterparts.

Cultural and environmental pressures (like the fact that McDonald's heavily advertises to the black community) means that many black (American) children will grow up with an appetite for unhealthy fatty food which will give them diabetes, will make them obese, and will shorten their lifespan. It's not because they were born fat or diabetic. It's because they did it to themselves…… or because their environment did it to them.

You are both debating the concept of "nature versus nurture", and the actuality is that life and development stream from both equally. However, in regards to multiculturalism: It seems that we have forced ourselves together (been forced?) rather abruptly, and I'm not sure individual races and ethnicities wouldn't be better off with their own sovereign habitats.
 
You sound very much like a champagne socialist, or limousine liberal. I'm guessing you haven't enjoyed much exposure to multiculturalism (just a guess, mind you) - either that or you have been somewhat sheltered - which I envy, if it is indeed the case.

Oh no. I totally had a black guy jack my hoopdee once. Now I'm all about hitting up messageboards and slapping pithy little labels on people while I talk at them about race relations.

SORRY YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, GUY! I HAVE BELIEFS ABOUT THINGS!
 
Oh no. I totally had a black guy jack my hoopdee once. Now I'm all about hitting up messageboards and slapping pithy little labels on people while I talk at them about race relations.

SORRY YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, GUY! I HAVE BELIEFS ABOUT THINGS!

Hey, champagne socialist guy…. can I have a ride in your limousine? lolcat :p
 
Everyone should tell their employers about their posts here and lets see what they think... :D;)

----------


Good luck getting a job with that attitude. If you are really worried about being discriminated against for employment try being a black person who is historically and regularly discriminated against and then even after they've been hired treated like they aren't as smart even when they outperform their peers.

According to the Economic Policy Institute College Educated Black people are twice as likely as a white person to be unemployed. Being a white male isn't the worst thing in the world that could happen to you. You could be black and your chances of unemployment would double simply by changing your skin color.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/local/workplace-equality-for-blacks-remains-elusive/nMnQn/

Does that mean affirmative action/positive discrimination is in anyway acceptable? I know I am probably in the luckiest group in terms of discrimination, but it doesn't change the fact that being a white male essentially makes you the number 1 target when it comes to such policies and I think it's wrong. Should I be overlooked based on being white, wealthy and educated? I'm not asking for sympathy, simply saying it should not be happening in the first place and I take issue with Apple having minority goals/quotas.
But you are right, being black is definitely worse when it comes to getting hired and it's totally wrong, but affirmative action does nothing to fix this in the long run in my opinion. It just facilitates the idea that minorities got to where they are based on policy rather than capability and competence.

Some of the stuff though that I see and read about online I find really sickening, especially the way the police in the US seem to be outright racist. I even saw it with my own eyes, once when I was visiting Niagra Falls I went across the bridge into the US just for a quick visit. My friend and I were the only two white people in the queue. We were quickly and politely ushered to the front while everyone else was made to stand against a wall in a rather rude and aggressive manner. I swear this was true and happened in 2010 at the US border crossing. The only time I've seen outright blatant racism and it was within five minutes of being in the US. We were so taken aback by it we didn't stay long and just came back - on the Canadian side it was one guy just having a quick look at the passport, on the US side it looked like Fort Knox.
 
Oh no. I totally had a black guy jack my hoopdee once. Now I'm all about hitting up messageboards and slapping pithy little labels on people while I talk at them about race relations.

SORRY YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, GUY! I HAVE BELIEFS ABOUT THINGS!

Nevertheless your beliefs are not in concordance with urban reality.
 
Environmental and cultural differences don't explain everything.

Genetics do play a part. Like the fact that Africans (and African-Americans) have a genetic predisposition to a disease like Sickle Cell (a blood disorder). I see these kinds of patients in our hospital all the time. The sickle cell crisis admissions will always be a black person. Never some blonde white girl etc.

Tho certainly, now that we are talking about diseases as examples, there are gazillions of disorders and diseases which ARE cultural/environmental — like explaining how a large majority of black American adults are obese and have diabetes. Did God curse them with a racial disease there? Nope. It's because they are stuffing their faces with bad food. Most diabetes and obesity is highly preventable. Just like dying from lung cancer is highly preventable if you could refrain from smoking to begin with.

The disorders of obesity and diabetes in black Americans is totally cultural/environmental, and totally preventable. You don't see the vast majority of black AFRICANS living in Africa as a bunch of diabetic fat people (although they do have other health issues to deal with like Ebola and malaria). Nope. Many Africans in Africa Continent are lean and tall and skinny. They don't have access to crap American fast food like Mickey Ds and KFC. Their diet is culturally different than their American counterparts.

Cultural and environmental pressures (like the fact that McDonald's heavily advertises to the black community) means that many black (American) children will grow up with an appetite for unhealthy fatty food which will give them diabetes, will make them obese, and will shorten their lifespan. It's not because they were born fat or diabetic. It's because they did it to themselves…… or because their environment did it to them.

Yeah, genetics do very much play a part in it all. Though in your case above, that's more an example of hereitary that happens to be race specific, rather than something that's specific because of race.

...if that makes sense. It probably doesn't. Let's see if I can explain this a little better.

Sickle Cell disease is a failed mutation against malaria that could've happened to any race or group of people who lived in a certain area for a long enough time. It's another example of an adapation, and were it successful, would've been a positive inherited trait.

And like an adaptation, or any basic trait, it doesn't have any real bearing on capabilities or physiology. Over time mutations could add up, and eventually evolve these people into another race, but in the immediate present, it's one very small tweak to the basic human formula.

The whole issue of haplotype, heredity, and everything that goes along with it is a vastly complicated topic, and one I can't even begin to hope to broach. But I have read enough to know that from a solely biological perspective, there aren't any real differences between the various peoples of the world. Lots of little things, yeah. But nothing that makes a huge difference.

To phrase it along what I said above, sickle cell in this case would be like having a cousin who developed a propensity for heart disease due to some environmental factor that can be inherited farther down his lineage.

----------

Hey, champagne socialist guy…. can I have a ride in your limousine? lolcat :p

Pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get your own champagne and limo, commie. :mad:
 
Does that mean affirmative action/positive discrimination is in anyway acceptable? I know I am probably in the luckiest group in terms of discrimination, but it doesn't change the fact that being a white male essentially makes you the number 1 target when it comes to such policies and I think it's wrong. Should I be overlooked based on being white, wealthy and educated? I'm not asking for sympathy, simply saying it should not be happening in the first place and I take issue with Apple having minority goals/quotas.
But you are right, being black is definitely worse when it comes to getting hired and it's totally wrong, but affirmative action does nothing to fix this in the long run in my opinion. It just facilitates the idea that minorities got to where they are based on policy rather than capability and competence.

Some of the stuff though that I see and read about online I find really sickening, especially the way the police in the US seem to be outright racist. I even saw it with my own eyes, once when I was visiting Niagra Falls I went across the bridge into the US just for a quick visit. My friend and I were the only two white people in the queue. We were quickly and politely ushered to the front while everyone else was made to stand against a wall in a rather rude and aggressive manner. I swear this was true and happened in 2010 at the US border crossing. The only time I've seen outright blatant racism and it was within five minutes of being in the US. We were so taken aback by it we didn't stay long and just came back - on the Canadian side it was one guy just having a quick look at the passport, on the US side it looked like Fort Knox.

You certainly don't have to go to the US to see racist police, being black in London, stop and search is a hot topic.

On a school trip to London of which I was a chaperone, only our black students encounter this, even while in a mixed group. All the children were dressed alike dark clothes and hoodies, street fashion.
 
Nevertheless your beliefs are not in concordance with urban reality.

How does anything you've posted thus far work as a reply to anything I've said? My response to AdonisSMU was more about personal feelings framed around racial issues, and all you're doing is talking at me in a very nonspecific accusatory sorta way.

And I know all about urban reality, man. I owned The Chronic in high school. |m|:mad:
 
Does he hide it? Or does he just not go on about it as he doesn't see it as important?

I hate how Jony Ive hides his heterosexuality. He never talks about his girlfriend/wife. He should be ashamed.

So that's why Apple for the first time had an official corporate presence at the San Francisco Gay Pride parade, which Tim Cook attended, and they posted a video about it on their YouTube account? Obviously Cook/Apple thinks it's very important.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.