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Apple Releases PowerBooks and iBooks

data1ore said:
If that's the case those who bought the 'lesser' machines would surely feel ripped off.
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Actually, checking out barefeats has reaffirmed my decision to save and get the 15" combo. I've thrown in 1 gig Ram, and bought a really nice sleeve case and Arc-Teryx backpack for the price of the stock 1.5 super that isn't even performing much better at all than the 1.33 ghz. Besides, if you are a heavy duty user, a Powerbook shouldn't be your primary machine anyway.

p.s. I know the comment was referring to the newer processor in the 1.5's, but regardless, I LOVE this thing, and wouldn't trade it for a second (unless it was a Free trade :D )
 
mpopkin said:
I never cited the Developer's notes and no they do not require 10.3.3 to boot because i am currently running Jaguar on my Powerbook 1.5ghz because of several mods that are not available on Panther yet. Motorola clearly states that the only differences between the 7447 and the 7447a is altivec, speed and battery consumption, price is also a difference. When you can tell me that Price is Not Apple's bottom line, then you can tell me that they would spend more for the 7447a than the 7447 which they do have in backstock, cite the fact that the Powerpc g4 is still for sale at Apple.com or cite developer's notes, but i am not one to leave hyperlinks or photos of a processor, but if you want to leave me a private message i can go into more detail about the processor and there core differences because i have a longstanding interest in Microprocessors and experience in analyzing and working with them( manufacture of computers and analyzing, benchmarking and working with generations of early PC model processors from Amd, Intel etc in addition to earlier generation of Powerpc processors. sorry if i may not be coming out straight or direct.
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Only two things

1) In the developer note, it can be read that ALL the 15" models have a new feature that consists of slowing the bus speed...This is a feature only found in the 7447A

By the way, the ibooks mount the MPC7447...and the technical note dont tell anything about slowing the bus speed

2) You are right about the photo of the take part of the 12" model...it can not be seen the exact model ,but the foot of the photo talks about a 7447A not a 7447...Why are they going to lie....

Finally I aported several porofs about the exact model used in the 1.33 version but you dont aported a proof about your comment...Anyway you can think what you want



remarq
 
Let's not flame each other here - I never insinuated you were a liar in anyway. Let's leave it at that. Don't take it personally. Tempers and rough edges get you nowhere in life :p. We're all friendly nice Mac users, switcher or not. Make love, not war~

Live long and prosper...

mpopkin said:
Funny how you say that because while i have a friend who designs and works on Final cut for Apple, he tells me stuff but never about the processors, it is one of those things that even the employee's do not know. And for those who own a 1.33ghz g4, it is a MPC7447 Not MPC7447A, so even looking at the takeapart of the 12" Pbook the person just stated what we are discussing, never actually showed a close up of the processor, to back this up, if you go to motorola.com and type in Powerpc g4 in the search window, it will bring up info on the MP7xx family of processors, under closer examination you will see the differences between performance. If you really want to be exact, take apart a 15 or 12" pb 1.33ghz and look for yourself, i am sure that you will be disappointed and will find not a MP7447A processor, but the one used in the First Aluminum PB series Rev A.
I am not sorry to have brought this to light, but am sorry that you (data1ore) feel inclined to say that i am almost believable because i would not come into a forum, regardless of the forum, and lie deliberately to an audience.
Believe what you will, but until you have direct evidence contradicting my evidence of the contrary( that the MPC7447 processor is used in the 12" or 15" PB 1.33ghz in the place of the MPC7447A processor that is used in the 15" than i suggest that you keep your opinions on who is believeable, no matter how much it may bolster your hope that your processor is not significantly slower or less powerful(which it really is not that much less powerful or fast) to yourself because saying that i was almost believable is saying i am a liar, i do take offense to that and if you want to call me a liar,then do so directly.
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ibooks in Australia appear to be competing with similar PC notebooks in price now which is a bit of a first for any mac machines down here. In my uni i have deffinately started noticing far more ibooks around than PC's.
 
Ordered a 15" 1.5ghz @5400rpm & ATI Radeon 9700, 512mb ram in 1 slot.

Can't wait for it to get here!
 
It's not fair!!

I bought my BTO 15" on 19th April, an hour after anouncement and it still hasn't arrived. :mad:

I thought it would take a couple of weeks but this is taking the p*ss now. I have lots of work to do and need it urgently!

Why does the UK get the sh*tty end of the stick!?!! :(
 
Does anyone know how I can change my time settings on this forum. I remember it gave me an option when I registered, but I can't seem to access it now. :confused:

Thanks

Twisted T
 
1) Slowing the bus speed as you read it has actually been around for a while and existed in the MPC7447,
2) Powerbooks get a different software package to manage processor, battery and display performance than the ibook's(serious) it may sound dumb, why would apple do that, but it is part of the trade off for buying a professional instead of a consumer notebook, software implying firmware as well.
3) I have shown proof from the motorola page, citing previous examples of this processor as existing only at 1.5 ghz and with the MPC7447 being used at 1.33 ghz by Apple
4) Using Developer's Notes, For either Powerbook or ibooks is not citing proof, the person who opened the 12" powerbook would have answers and he should have posted a closeup of the processor so we can tell, but since the topic over the MPC7447a has been so heated and long because of the hope of a powerbook g5, people have come to assume that this revision would use the 7447a across the board. Apple has never done that and i cited previous examples in Apple's History when apple has shortchanged lower models of the same product, this includes 8600/8500, Performa models, Early G4 models, the G5 Tower and on and on. It even includes how they package the ipod to sell to consumers. bottom line here, is by going to motorola.com and searching for the powerpc g4 you will see the info on their speeds and you will read that the mpc7447a is made at 1.5 ghz while the 7447 is made up to 1.33 ghz which is where it is at.

remarq said:
Only two things

1) In the developer note, it can be read that ALL the 15" models have a new feature that consists of slowing the bus speed...This is a feature only found in the 7447A

By the way, the ibooks mount the MPC7447...and the technical note dont tell anything about slowing the bus speed

2) You are right about the photo of the take part of the 12" model...it can not be seen the exact model ,but the foot of the photo talks about a 7447A not a 7447...Why are they going to lie....

Finally I aported several porofs about the exact model used in the 1.33 version but you dont aported a proof about your comment...Anyway you can think what you want



remarq
Click to expand...
 
Bought a 12"

I went out and bought a 12"PB Superdrive last night. So far, it's great! No stuck pixels, superfast, great size - I was trying to pick between the 15 and 12 and while I really wanted to backlit keyboard, the size seemed too bulky, and I valued the portability. My watch would also scrape against the wrist pad on the 15", but not on the 12.

And when I'm working at home, I hook the think up to an external monitor - so I really didn't need the screen resolution.

At any rate, I need memory! What's an OK deal for a 1GB simm, and who's a good dealer? It looks like I should be able to get the ram for ~ $400. Any places to avoid or prefer?
 
mpopkin said:
2) Powerbooks get a different software package to manage processor, battery and display performance than the ibook's(serious) it may sound dumb, why would apple do that, but it is part of the trade off for buying a professional instead of a consumer notebook, software implying firmware as well.
Click to expand...

Can you elaborate a little on this ? Can you pinpoint the difference ? Which of the two software packages is the better (it would be obvious that the PB has the faster software). Any way to improve one or the other ?
 
In case anyone was wondering, both the ibook and powerbook use the 7447A processor

http://developer.apple.com/document...acintosh_CPUs-G4/15inchPowerBookG4/index.html

http://developer.apple.com/document...acintosh_CPUs-G4/12inchPowerBookG4/index.html

http://developer.apple.com/document...er_Notes/Macintosh_CPUs-G4/iBookG4/index.html

Also, on page 18 or 19 of the developer notes it mentions power management using DFS, which dynamically scales the processor frequency. According to Motorola this is new to the 7447A

http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC7447A&nodeId=018rH3bTdG8653

Hope this helps :)
 
mpopkin said:
1) Slowing the bus speed as you read it has actually been around for a while and existed in the MPC7447,

2) Powerbooks get a different software package to manage processor, battery and display performance than the ibook's(serious) it may sound dumb, why would apple do that, but it is part of the trade off for buying a professional instead of a consumer notebook, software implying firmware as well.
Click to expand...

1) NO, sorry the DFS feature is only in MPC7447A...

2) can you explain this ?...it is the most strange explanation I heard about the difference in performance for Pbs adn Ibooks...The most common explanations about performance are due to processor frequency and a faster (now 266 vs 333 Mhz) bus...

remarq
 
noir said:
In case anyone was wondering, both the ibook and powerbook use the 7447A processor

http://developer.apple.com/document...acintosh_CPUs-G4/15inchPowerBookG4/index.html

http://developer.apple.com/document...acintosh_CPUs-G4/12inchPowerBookG4/index.html

http://developer.apple.com/document...er_Notes/Macintosh_CPUs-G4/iBookG4/index.html

Also, on page 18 or 19 of the developer notes it mentions power management using DFS, which dynamically scales the processor frequency. According to Motorola this is new to the 7447A

http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC7447A&nodeId=018rH3bTdG8653

Hope this helps :)
Click to expand...



Yes, it seems you are right, all of them use the 7447A...

remarq
 
louden said:
I went out and bought a 12"PB Superdrive last night. So far, it's great! No stuck pixels, superfast, great size - I was trying to pick between the 15 and 12 and while I really wanted to backlit keyboard, the size seemed too bulky, and I valued the portability. My watch would also scrape against the wrist pad on the 15", but not on the 12.

And when I'm working at home, I hook the think up to an external monitor - so I really didn't need the screen resolution.

At any rate, I need memory! What's an OK deal for a 1GB simm, and who's a good dealer? It looks like I should be able to get the ram for ~ $400. Any places to avoid or prefer?
Click to expand...

You could have gotten Klearadvantage (www.klearadvantage.com) to take care of the watch scrapping against the wrist pad.
 
Just got my 1.5Ghz BTO (128 Vram, 5400rpm)
and am pleased to report;

1. no dead pixels
2. no wobble
3. no other problems
4. one kick-ass computer
5. one STOKED owner :D

now to "ebay" my old dvi TiBook (667mhz)
 
Final post on this subject

Unfortunately as i have stated earlier, Developer notes do not mean anything and if you look at developer's notes from all of Apple's computers offered now or earlier, they use the information from the highest end avaiable. if you go to look at the link for the Powermac g5 below, you will notice that it does not talk about individual models and just about the high end model, it distinctively leaves out the fact that the 1.6 ghz model can only take four gb of memory or has a slower bus speed. The same goes for the powerbook line of computers.
actually, i should put in quote that i am wrong about the 15 inch Powerbook, when looking through the developer's notes they directly link the processor to the New MPC7447a processor, now this is not saying that the base model is still not using the MPC7447, but i am because do not have endless time in the world to argue this fact, say that the 1.33ghz used in the 1.33 ghz powerbook has the possibility of being a 7447a, but i want to point out that i am correct and 100% correct since most people are citing developer's notes, that the 12 Inch Powerbook is Using the MPC7447 processor and not the MPC7447a processor like some people say, i will point out that because of this fact, which is supported by looking at the Developer's notes posted earlier for the 12 Inch powerbook from developer.apple.com that the 12 inch powerbook uses the MPC 7447 and not the MPC7447a processor.
I will state that because of this it is likely that the base model 15" powerbook uses the same 1.33 ghz processor used in the 12" powerbook but will not overlook the possibility that it may not and actually use the MPC7447a, then i would say why would apple not use the same processor in the 12" despite the fact that the MPC7447 is cheaper and that is one of the reason's it is used in the 12" Powerbook, That is why it would also be used in the base model of the 15" Powerbook.
To finish off with decisive evidence here is the schematic for the Powerpc g4 microprocessor used in the 15" Powerbook
As well as the Powerpc g4 Microprocessor used in the 12" Powerbook. If you look closer you will notice that 1) Apple does not send you off to Motorola's page on the MPC7447a when looking at the 12" pbook and does so on the 15" pb 2) That the 12" Pbook is missing fully symmetric multiprocessing capability and dual 32 KB instruction and data caches.

To answer an earlier question, is there a difference? no. I am revising my review of my 15" pb 1.5 ghz and stating that i have seen little heating improvements over my earlier 1.25ghz Pbook g4 15" and in terms of battery life, they are about the same.

I am not going to post again on this subject, i have rested my case and my opinion for that matter. Believe that your PB has the MPC7447a if you want or do not believe, that is up to you. To point out a reminder from data1ore, What you are typing with is what counts, if you have a MAC enjoy it because you are unique and able to stand there and watch your fellow computer(wintel users) machines crash and burn, while yours is still up and running, regardless of what you bought, you have the fastest powerbooks on the market and you should feel good about it:)





remarq said:
Yes, it seems you are right, all of them use the 7447A...

remarq
Click to expand...
Powermac g5 developer notes Powerbook 15" PowerPC architecture Powerbook 12" Powerpc architecture
 
mpopkin said:
Huh
Thats off the 15 inch, read closer and do not write when you are unsure
Click to expand...

Nope. That's the 12". Read the links at the top of the page..."ADC Home > Reference Library > Documentation > Hardware > Apple Hardware > 12-inch PowerBook G4 Developer Note > Supplemental Reference Documents"

Do you see it now? "12-inch PowerBook G4 Developer Note"

Chris
 
The PowerBook is one wickedly fast and cool machine. I don't care if it's powered by the Motorola 7447A or powered by a hamster on a treadmill, it simply rocks. :D .
 
Couldn't be a hampster there isn't enough room inside for its water bottle. Perhaps a field mouse though ??
 
Yahoooo...

Fedex beats the expected delivery date!

My BTO PB 12" (80 gig 5400) is delivered 3 days earlier! :D

512 RAM from Crucial has been waiting for it sometime.

A Happy Switcher ;)
 
WHO CARES?!?

hey mpopkin, i cant believe the amount of typing you've done over such a trivial issue. who cares, let these folks enjoy their new pbooks. ever heard of a measurebator? this isn't intended to be a flame. it's just that I think I speak for many when I say; we're sick of this subject! and frankly none of your proof is very conclusive, or persuasive. ;)
 
I care!

I care about what Mpopkin has posted and appreciate his efforts to bring data to the thread.

I feel that he is doing a good job of evaluating the CPU situation and do agree with him, i think that it is very observant of him to relate that part about how APPLE tends to be speaking of only the high end units in their descriptions.

Ala G5, they were speaking about only the high end G5 and the lower end units specs were not really focused on. This could be the case with the powerbooks also and its seems a valuable point to expound upon.

It is certianly within his rights to debate it with other if they feel differently.

Isnt that what these boards area about , what would be the interest in reading theads filled with nothing but,
"Oh, i agree with you and Apple, I love you."

That would hardly be worth over 1440 posts, I certainly wouldnt eant to read that!

I applaud Mpopkin and these threads that bring issues up for information adn entertainment!

Thanks Mpopkin.

Oh, but i was kinda sad to see you write that you felt that the new Powerbooks heat issue still remains similar to the previous REV.
My heart is heavy. :(
 
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