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It is so obvious the videos were doctored.
Obvious doesn't mean what you think it means.
Why didnt Steve himself lay out these handsets on the table at the press conference and do a live demo?
Um, because he was making a point about how you can prove anything with a video (and that Apple was willing to fight dirty if necessary)...

(And also, of ocurse, the Apple campus has its own tower, a point Jobs made)
 
If you insist - "you're stupid"

No security flaw, if you're referring to the auto fill one, that is now patched. If you're referring to jailbreaking via the new web site, you need your admin password. Anyone who has anything other than name, address and email addy on their card needs their brain checking anyway - who would have credit card details and bank information as part of their default vcard?
If you want people like me to reply, on topic, then please stop the name calling. Thank you.
 
Most people in other countries are laughing at people in the US because of their complaining about an issue almost no one else is experiencing. Read comments from the international launch in other countries and it is overwhelmingly "MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING"!

Sorry trolls...your Android still sucks.

In my country (Denmark) the iPhone have just been released and a very early reviewer spoke of massive problems.
 
I did... Also had full knowledge of what the site was going, had to physically slide to jailbreak, could view a download was in progress - you'd have to be pretty stupid to miss this lot happening as a malicious attack. My machine is now restored, no desire to jailbreak, but just wanted to see the process.
But this can be done in the background :D
 
The PR trainwreck at Cupertino keeps on keepin' on.
Time for some fresh iKoolaid and an upgrade to Reality Distortion Field 10.7.
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
 
The PR trainwreck at Cupertino keeps on keepin' on.
Time for some fresh iKoolaid and an upgrade to Reality Distortion Field 10.7.
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Any chance of an English translation of that?
 
In my country (Denmark) the iPhone have just been released and a very early reviewer spoke of massive problems.

The difference is between a person who wants something interesting to write ("Ohmygod! Massive antenna problems! Death grip! Antennagate!") and a person who wants to make phone calls. If you read through these threads, people _using_ the iPhone don't actually _have_ these problems. Problems reported are always in the abstract ("its badly designed! You just touch it with your finger and calls are dropped") while actual users write things like "I took a friends iPhone and tried everything to make it drop calls or even just drop bars, and I couldn't make it do that, no matter what I tried".
 
Utter rubbish. The reason being that this only happens in low/poor signal areas and the press conference was held in a location with exception signal.

This is another wrong fact. The signal issue occurs whether you a have full 3G signal or low signal.

I have tried a few different iPhone 4's all with the latest updated software, so I should be seeing real signal strength on them. All of them had full 3G signal and every single one dropped signal when touching the bottom left strip.
 
Ah, funny that some individuals here on this forum are really trying so hard to make fun of the fanboys, but yet sound like (one track) broken records - not to say fanatics- themselves: Reality distortion field, Koolaid, bla bla...

While critical discussions are great and probably appreciated by most of the forum members (and most likely also by the majority of those who rather read but not actively participate in the threads) there are ADULTS (!!!) who spent hours here on a forum dedicated to a company and their products, only to constantly bash said manufacturer.

Hint: critical thinking is Multi-dimensional :rolleyes:
 
Ah, funny that some individuals here on this forum are really trying so hard to make fun of the fanboys, but yet sound like (one track) broken records - not to say fanatics- themselves: Reality distortion field, Koolaid, bla bla...

It's pretty much the theme around here these days. Oddly enough they fail to recognize their own brand of groupthink.

there are ADULTS (!!!) who spent hours here on a forum dedicated to a company and their products, only to constantly bash said manufacturer.

The big question is: what's their motivation? Things that make you go "Hmmm..."
 
I have mixed feelings on this whole "antennagate" fiasco.

On one hand, I'm an AAPL owner and it's been the only tech stock that has been good to me pretty much year in, year out. I can't dispute that. The strong initial sales of the iPhone4 are more than likely just a precursor of whats to come as far as AAPL goes. At the rate AAPL is going, they are going to buy me a house some day.

On the other hand, the iPhone4 does have an issue, a real issue that I was able to recreate on several different units. This is not a myth, but a fact. I work in midtown Manhattan and holding the phone like I would normally resulted in about half of my placed calls dropping. Yes, I know the bumper fixes it, but in my opinion, that's a poor solution to shoddy design. None of the other iPhones I've used rarely ever dropped calls.

Prior to using the iPhone4 I think I'd dropped maybe half a dozen calls from the iPhone platform, and I've owned and used every iPhone since the original. Half a dozen dropped calls in three years of use of the platform. I'd say that's an acceptable ratio.

In the first day of using the iPhone4 it dropped roughly half of the calls I made. This is unacceptable in my opinion. I don't want to change the way I hold my phone. I don't want to install a bumper or case. I never had to do any of these things before, why should I have to start now? If this is ever fixed in the form of a clear coat, or something else that doesn't involve me holding it differently or installing an ugly case or bumper then I will gladly revisit the platform. I love (most) of Apple's products and to experience dropped call after dropped call on the most anticipated smart phone ever was really disappointing to say the least.

I'm thinking this is something that will be quietly fixed in the next month or two, probably with some type of clear coating, or something else that is cheaper than giving a free bumper or case away.

Removing these videos simply lessen exposure to the issue which is smart in my opinion.
 
I have mixed feelings on this whole "antennagate" fiasco.

On one hand, I'm an AAPL owner and it's been the only tech stock that has been good to me pretty much year in, year out. I can't dispute that. The strong initial sales of the iPhone4 are more than likely just a precursor of whats to come as far as AAPL goes. At the rate AAPL is going, they are going to buy me a house some day.

On the other hand, the iPhone4 does have an issue, a real issue that I was able to recreate on several different units. This is not a myth, but a fact. I work in midtown Manhattan and holding the phone like I would normally resulted in about half of my placed calls dropping. Yes, I know the bumper fixes it, but in my opinion, that's a poor solution to shoddy design. None of the other iPhones I've used rarely ever dropped calls.

Prior to using the iPhone4 I think I'd dropped maybe half a dozen calls from the iPhone platform, and I've owned and used every iPhone since the original. Half a dozen dropped calls in three years of use of the platform. I'd say that's an acceptable ratio.

In the first day of using the iPhone4 it dropped roughly half of the calls I made. This is unacceptable in my opinion. I don't want to change the way I hold my phone. I don't want to install a bumper or case. I never had to do any of these things before, why should I have to start now? If this is ever fixed in the form of a clear coat, or something else that doesn't involve me holding it differently or installing an ugly case or bumper then I will gladly revisit the platform. I love (most) of Apple's products and to experience dropped call after dropped call on the most anticipated smart phone ever was really disappointing to say the least.

I'm thinking this is something that will be quietly fixed in the next month or two, probably with some type of clear coating, or something else that is cheaper than giving a free bumper or case away.

Removing these videos simply lessen exposure to the issue which is smart in my opinion.

It's not an easy fix outside of the bumper case. There was a detailed analysis by an engineer somewhere that basically said that Apple hasn't changed the antenna much from the original iPhone, just adapted it to avoid extensive (and expensive) FCC testing and recertification. Here lies the problem.

Basically the engineer said the phone has to be completely redesigned and go to the FCC - a process that could take another year.

Apple is doing what they're doing because if they admit that this is a design flaw and that they took the easy way out, then they're in the middle of a class action suit and AAPL takes a major hit.

I think the class action suit will come anyways and they may end up giving a free or very cheap upgrade to the next version of the iPhone as part of a settlement. Apple would not want discovery if they did have warnings about this and ignored it. That would destroy their customer care reputation very quickly.

But the iPhone 4 has problems. And this is nothing new for Apple. My first iBook had an engineering problem. Apple used too thin a gauge of wire to connect the screen to the video board so it would break upon repeated closings. As is usual with Apple, they don't admit mistakes and will fault the customer for the mistake. I was under warranty, so no big deal. However, a class action was filed and Apple extended the warranty and replaced the iBook cables with thicker gauge wire.

No such luck on my iMac that had cheap, bad Chinese capacitors that were a known problem. While HP, Dell, Gateway, and all other PC manufacturers replaced motherboards with this problem, Apple told me and most people affected to pound sand. They had a very limited amount of iMacs they were willing to fix, though they did offer to sell me a new motherboard for $600 or a new iMac for $1300 or so. No class action suit filed, no cause to actually help the customer out of warranty even though Apple went cheap on the capacitors. They just decided the customers should take one for the team.
 
Your interpretation is flawed and not based in reality unfortunately. If you're happy living like that, more power to you.

OK. What metric would *you* use to measure how many owners felt they had a problem with their iPhone 4's reception? If you have an issue with a product, but you can't even be bothered to complain to the company that produces it, it' can't be that big of an issue.

Given that a *good* defective rate on electronics is 3% (that is for a good release, 3% of the items produced will be DOA or otherwise incapable of being used), and Apple apparently had a 1.6% return rate for *all issues combined*, and only a 0.55% rate of iPhone 4 owners calling AppleCare for *any* reason, your claim that his "interpretation is flawed and not based in reality" is, frankly, nothing more than an ad hominem.

What number, based on some measurable event, would *you* propose should be used instead of the return and/or complaint rates?

Even if you assume that everyone who complained about the antennas on-line represented 10 iPhone 4 owners who were, for some unknown reason, physically unable to call Apple to complain, or return their phones, the noise generated would add less than .01% to either the return rate or complaint rate.

Should we humor you and say it was 1.61% returned, and 0.56% complaining? Or should we acknowledge that the supposition that would 'allow' that extra 0.01% is faulty in the extreme, because we know from many of those same complaining posters that not only do many of them not own an iPhone of any type, but they 'never have, and never will'.

If you want to complain that someone's use of officially released numbers, which would trigger SEC violations with huge fines if shown to be false, are "not based in reality", you're going to have to show some evidence to support your contention. Otherwise, you're just blowing FUD.
 
Has anyone considered iOS 4 for being the cause of the antenna signal drop?
Ever since I upgraded my 3G to iOS 4, its signal has decreased dramatically, and I've experienced way more dropped calls than ever.
My wife's 3G is still on 3.1.2, and when compared side-by-side, hers has better antenna reception, both indoors and outdoors.

I tried going back to 3.1.3 but had issues, so I'm back up to 4.0.1, still experiencing the low antenna signal and slowness.

I'm glad they removed the comparisons from the site. They were acting kind of childish - reminded me of the Mac vs PC commercials.

Yet another person who doesn't understand what the 4.0 and 4.0.1 updates did to antenna reception in iPhones. (That is, nothing.)

iOS 4.0.1 fixed a bug where the prior versions of the OS were calculating the number of bars to display incorrectly. It was likely brought to Apple's attention by the Anandtech tests where they figured out what range of signal strength each bar actually indicated. (It was really a weird graph.)

The number of bars displayed has no effect on the signal strength. It's the other way around. You're comparing the 'signal strength' (read: bars displayed) on a phone with the bug where it showed too many bars, and on a phone where the fix for that bug has been installed, then complaining that suddenly you have a worse signal than her.

Let me guess, her phone shows 5 bars, and yours shows 3? Dig up the comparison charts where the signal strength to bar mappings have been compared. You'll be able to tell within a few db what your signal strength in that area actually is. It's actually kind of neat that way. (From a purely geek-out perspective.)
 
The difference is between a person who wants something interesting to write ("Ohmygod! Massive antenna problems! Death grip! Antennagate!") and a person who wants to make phone calls. If you read through these threads, people _using_ the iPhone don't actually _have_ these problems. Problems reported are always in the abstract ("its badly designed! You just touch it with your finger and calls are dropped") while actual users write things like "I took a friends iPhone and tried everything to make it drop calls or even just drop bars, and I couldn't make it do that, no matter what I tried".

They had a review on a morning show the day after it came out. The reviewer (who had used the phone for a day) had massive problems with calls and data transfer rate.

The problem exists and it also exists in Europe. If you don't realize that by now, you're actively trying block it out.
 
Sounds annoying. Signal strength from the move must be part of the issue. I get used to full signal bars everywhere but I'm guessing that's not so common.

Actually, if you look at the numbers given for people who had called AppleCare about the iPhone 4's reception, or returned their iPhone 4 for *any* reason, I'd guess that having a good signal is *very* common.

Even if none of the AppleCare callers returned their phones, and none of the phone-returners called AppleCare, that's 2.15% (1.6% + 0.55%) who had enough of an issue of any sort to do something which Apple would be able to measure. Having 3% of a product returned is a measure of a *good* release. The 3Gs had a solid 3.6% return rate. The iPhone 4 had (at last measure) a 1.6% return rate. By any measure that's extraordinary.

(Hint: There's *no* company that even bothers to *try* measuring customer satisfaction based on forum whining. There's no way to turn '20 user ids screaming at the top of their lungs on that forum' into any measure of 'X customers having a problem with the product'.
 
As is usual with Apple, they don't admit mistakes and will fault the customer for the mistake.

I think you meant "as is usual with corporations." Typical business policy is not to publicly admit design flaws (there is no perfect design, after all) and spontaneously start throwing out free stuff. See Xbox 360, see Toyota unintended acceleration, the list goes on and on and on.

Windows 7 is supposed to be the big "fix" for the Vista debacle. Do buyers of Vista get free upgrades to 7? No.
 
OK. What metric would *you* use to measure how many owners felt they had a problem with their iPhone 4's reception? If you have an issue with a product, but you can't even be bothered to complain to the company that produces it, it' can't be that big of an issue.

Given that a *good* defective rate on electronics is 3% (that is for a good release, 3% of the items produced will be DOA or otherwise incapable of being used), and Apple apparently had a 1.6% return rate for *all issues combined*, and only a 0.55% rate of iPhone 4 owners calling AppleCare for *any* reason, your claim that his "interpretation is flawed and not based in reality" is, frankly, nothing more than an ad hominem.

What number, based on some measurable event, would *you* propose should be used instead of the return and/or complaint rates?

Even if you assume that everyone who complained about the antennas on-line represented 10 iPhone 4 owners who were, for some unknown reason, physically unable to call Apple to complain, or return their phones, the noise generated would add less than .01% to either the return rate or complaint rate.

Should we humor you and say it was 1.61% returned, and 0.56% complaining? Or should we acknowledge that the supposition that would 'allow' that extra 0.01% is faulty in the extreme, because we know from many of those same complaining posters that not only do many of them not own an iPhone of any type, but they 'never have, and never will'.

If you want to complain that someone's use of officially released numbers, which would trigger SEC violations with huge fines if shown to be false, are "not based in reality", you're going to have to show some evidence to support your contention. Otherwise, you're just blowing FUD.

First of .. the 3% you state are defective devices, as in screen broken, button doesn't react anything like those. We have no information on how high this number is for the iPhone4 and it isn't really the point of discussion. None of those is included in either the 0.55% complains nor the x% return-no-questions-asked stats Apple presented.

The 0.55% of people calling sounds like a good number, but frankly we have no idea what it means. Steve Jobs said, that is the number of people calling AppleCare "primary about reception issues" (paraphased), but whether that is a high or low number, we don't know. HTC stated they had 0.016% calling for the Desire I think. Also .. it doesn't include people reporting problems in store or with AT&T where they probably bought the phone. What about people abroad .. how are they included in those stats.

I don't think Apples number are flat out wrong. But since we have little to no information on how they were generated (like what actually qualified as "primary reception problem") and no baseline to compare to .. those numbers should be taken with a grain of salt.

The "problem" is that only Apple has the real numbers, so there is no fair or objective way of telling what is really happening and how big the impact was. The only thing we can tell is, that the iPhone4 is still on backorder .. so, apparently a ton of people still want one.

T.
 
First of .. the 3% you state are defective devices, as in screen broken, button doesn't react anything like those. We have no information on how high this number is for the iPhone4 and it isn't really the point of discussion. None of those is included in either the 0.55% complains nor the x% return-no-questions-asked stats Apple presented.

Yep. That 3% is returns for defective devices. If the iPhone 4's all-inclusive return rate *including* devices without broken screens, etc. is significantly lower than that, then they're *well* below that 3% mark. No matter how you mix it, a 1.6% return rate is phenomenal in the consumer electronics world.

The 0.55% of people calling sounds like a good number, but frankly we have no idea what it means. Steve Jobs said, that is the number of people calling AppleCare "primary about reception issues" (paraphased), but whether that is a high or low number, we don't know. HTC stated they had 0.016% calling for the Desire I think. Also .. it doesn't include people reporting problems in store or with AT&T where they probably bought the phone. What about people abroad .. how are they included in those stats.

Go reread that HTC quote. (I think it was the Evo.) They said that 0.016% of the calls to their support line were about issues with that particular phone. They didn't gave the ratio relative to the population of *all* calls to their support line, not calls to the support line from people who owned the phone in question. That's a misleading statistic, full stop.

Apple probably doesn't have the numbers for people who complained to AT&T. They would, however, likely have the return-rate numbers, because a returned item will be returned to the manufacturer.

I don't think Apples number are flat out wrong. But since we have little to no information on how they were generated (like what actually qualified as "primary reception problem") and no baseline to compare to .. those numbers should be taken with a grain of salt.

True, but there's a difference between 'a grain of salt' and dismissing them out of hand as worthless like KnightWRX has been doing. (Despite the fact that he has no numbers to provide, much less any that are more accurate.)

The "problem" is that only Apple has the real numbers, so there is no fair or objective way of telling what is really happening and how big the impact was. The only thing we can tell is, that the iPhone4 is still on backorder .. so, apparently a ton of people still want one.

T.

Which supports the contention that despite the noise in the media, this isn't a particularly wide-spread issue as far as people actually being effected. (It's possible for every single phone to have the issue, but only have an incredibly small portion of owners be effected by it.)

I found out this weekend that my parents had upgraded their 3Gss to 4s. My mom had no complaints. My dad had been bit by the proximity sensor issue a couple times. Neither one of them had run into the signal issue, even at my sister's place, out in the boonies where AT&T only gives 3 bars of Edge). They both use a case of a design I wouldn't have chosen, but they did the same thing with their 3Gss as well.

Side Note: I played with my dad's for a bit, and I'm really sold on the 'retina display'. Seriously, that thing is amazing. I'll be upgrading when my contract runs out, though it will likely be the iPhone 5 at that point.

Not quite so side note: If you're going to paraphrase someone, don't wrap it in quotes. Especially not twice. Especially not without indicating it was a paraphrase in both places. Best case, it's sloppy. Worst case, its intentionally misleading.
 
Yep. That 3% is returns for defective devices. If the iPhone 4's all-inclusive return rate *including* devices without broken screens, etc. is significantly lower than that, then they're *well* below that 3% mark. No matter how you mix it, a 1.6% return rate is phenomenal in the consumer electronics world.

Not surprisingly, I never saw a CNN anchor talking about the 40-50% failure rate of the Xbox 360. No, not just having impaired functionality when you hold it a certain way, but flat out dying (permanently) in front of your eyes. Per Destructoid:

And if you want an even more shameful statistic, 55% of those who suffered 360 failures have had to repair or replace their system more than once.

http://www.destructoid.com/new-survey-puts-xbox-360-failure-rate-at-42--171088.phtml

My brother is on his third 360, though I've heard accounts of people going through a half-dozen of these things. Maybe that's why they named it the 360, because you're endlessly locked in a return/repair circle?

Where was/is the press outrage? Nowhere. But if you hold your finger on a certain spot of the iPhone 4, you may drop a call. HORROR! News at 6, 10, and 11! Heck, let's go 24x7 coverage!

But the press does not have an anti-Apple bias. Not at all. :rolleyes:
 
Not surprisingly, I never saw a CNN anchor talking about the 40-50% failure rate of the Xbox 360. No, not just having impaired functionality when you hold it a certain way, but flat out dying (permanently) in front of your eyes. Per Destructoid:



http://www.destructoid.com/new-survey-puts-xbox-360-failure-rate-at-42--171088.phtml

My brother is on his third 360, though I've heard accounts of people going through a half-dozen of these things. Maybe that's why they named it the 360, because you're endlessly locked in a return/repair circle?

Where was/is the press outrage? Nowhere. But if you hold your finger on a certain spot of the iPhone 4, you may drop a call. HORROR! News at 6, 10, and 11! Heck, let's go 24x7 coverage!

But the press does not have an anti-Apple bias. Not at all. :rolleyes:

QTF. The media are hyping this thing all to hell because it sells because it's Apple.
 
Not surprisingly, I never saw a CNN anchor talking about the 40-50% failure rate of the Xbox 360. No, not just having impaired functionality when you hold it a certain way, but flat out dying (permanently) in front of your eyes. Per Destructoid:



http://www.destructoid.com/new-survey-puts-xbox-360-failure-rate-at-42--171088.phtml

My brother is on his third 360, though I've heard accounts of people going through a half-dozen of these things. Maybe that's why they named it the 360, because you're endlessly locked in a return/repair circle?

Where was/is the press outrage? Nowhere. But if you hold your finger on a certain spot of the iPhone 4, you may drop a call. HORROR! News at 6, 10, and 11! Heck, let's go 24x7 coverage!

But the press does not have an anti-Apple bias. Not at all. :rolleyes:



But unlike Apple. MS did not deny that their was a problem. They were very good about replacing the broken systems and made it fairly easy. Hell they went on to try to keep fixing the problem with new releases.

Apple got is crap because it denied the huge design flaw in the phone.
This iPhone 4 mess is damaging Apple image. They now have a big product that everyone knows about how they screwed up. My mom who is not into technology knew about the mess. Does she want an iPhone4, Yes, is she getting one yes.
iPhone is a great OS for some people. Just the design flaw in the phone is a problem and Apple image is going to be hurt.
This is just more proof that Apple marketing is full of BS and can not be trusted as far as you can throw them.
 
But unlike Apple. MS did not deny that their was a problem. They were very good about replacing the broken systems and made it fairly easy. Hell they went on to try to keep fixing the problem with new releases.

Oh please. The iPhone 4 has been out for a month. But that hasn't stopped you (and countless others here) from raking them over the coals for the antenna problem.

Microsoft didn't exactly jump on the dying console issue immediately. And I don't recall them every actually admitting a design flaw (they extended the warranty period, but they never came out publicly and said "Our bad - our console is crap," which it appears you expect Apple to do). The lack of such an admission appears to be a cardinal sin in your eyes. Where's your anti-Microsoft outrage?

As for "fairly easy" - if my iPhone 4 fails me, I take it to the Apple Store and they hand me a new one. If my Xbox 360 fails me, I box it up, send it to a repair center, and wait 3 weeks for them to send me back a console. Apple's customer service in this regard completely blows Microsoft's away, though I doubt you'll admit it.

This is just more proof that Apple marketing is full of BS and can not be trusted as far as you can throw them.

:rolleyes: Welcome to the world of marketing. At any company.

I'm not sure why I'm even responding to you, as you've been beating the "I hate the iPhone" long before the iPhone 4 antenna issue was a glimmer in any Apple-basher's eye. You should be glad Steve gave you an early Christmas present - fresh fuel for your fire.
 
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