Apple Says Government Trying to 'Rewrite History' by Using All Writs Act as 'All-Powerful Magic Wand'

[Rocketman]

Yep. Because everyone the government wants to look at is guilty.

I have seen about 4 different fairly scholarly reports now that say in effect everyone inadvertently commits between 1-4 felonies a day. It is caused by broadly written law and finely detailed and vastly deep regulations on both a federal and state level. If there was more efficient enforcement of the existing laws, statutes, regulations, and codes, everyone we all know would be criminalized. Unfortunately this is not speculation or fantasy. It is real.

Having a back door is about more efficient, possibly robotic or semi-automated law enforcement.

cite:

https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-future/one-fbis-major-claims-iphone-case-fraudulent

 

[rdlink]

This case has nothing to do with individual rights. It is all about whether a large company can be forced to do something that is quite likely to cause huge damage to its business.

Make no mistake, this has everything in the world to do with individual rights. This is most important civil liberties case of our generation. The reverberations of this case will be felt for decades or longer.

And since I am fairly confident that the 9th circuit will end up ruling in Apple's favor on the San Bernardino case I don't see the scenario laid out by the OP as being likely. I think that, worst case the SCOTUS will refuse to hear it, and the 9th Circuit's ruling will stand. But even with the court sitting 4-4 right now I don't see this going well for the government.

 

[derek4484]

This kind of thing is what makes the public so mad at the government. The AWA is not meant to be an act that makes the government all powerful and can make individuals and companies do anything they want. Especially since our founding fathers were deathly afraid of an all-powerful tyrannical government.
[doublepost=1458133191][/doublepost]

FBI, DOJ have become synonymous with "Republicans" who always "think backwards, in reverse."

You're silly. Progressives want to "move forward"...where do you think "forward" is??? Its away from the US Constitution and away from the principles of the founding fathers. Conservatives do want to move "backwards"...back to a time when courts and people actually respected and followed the US Constitution.

Unfortunately, both parties R and D, want the same things but for different reasons. Both want big surveillance states, just for different reasons. Both want more spending, just for different reasons. Both want bigger government and more federal involvement in day-to-day lives, just for different reasons. Both parties are just two sides of the same evil coin. Dont be fooled, given the opportunity, both party elitists and establishments would shred the US Constitution in a skinny minute.

 

[aarond12]

If Apple ends up being "legally compelled" to unlock the phone and retrieve the information contained on it, I want the contents public. I want to know what was so important that the government has to trample on our rights.

I'll bet, since this is a work phone, there is nothing of use on this phone.
[doublepost=1458133938][/doublepost]

Conservatives do want to move "backwards"...back to a time when courts and people actually respected and followed the US Constitution.

...by completely trampling on the separation of church and state over and over again. By hiding behind "Christianity" to discriminate against people who are not like them (e.g., Muslims, gays, atheists, etc.). By backing corporations over citizens. By continuing to make less-skilled people live below the poverty level because they work a minimum wage job. By forcing women to have children by denying them safe and legal abortions, then eliminating government-funded child care for those children. By denying climate change and backing polluting corporations, making the 1% even richer (see: Koch brothers).

Yeah, that's a great group of people you've aligned yourself with. Exactly what the founding fathers would have wanted. And exactly what Jesus would do. /s

 

[leroypants]

Since you confessed in writing, they no longer need the data in your phone to lock you up.

Yeah an anonymous claim on a message board is the same as a written confession.

 

[usarioclave]

I'm not sure why a lot of people are teeing off on the Republicans when the FBI/DoJ is run by Obama appointees.

I guess all those dailykos and moveon readers just love to froth at the mouth and blame Republicans for everything they don't like, which wakes you wonder how stable their worldview really is.

Repeat: the DoJ and FBI are staffed by Obama appointees, and have been since is first term. Hello?

Knuckle dragging mouth breathers are apparently on both sides of the aisle now.

 

[phillipduran]

The FBI is drunk with power. And, the people in Congress are clueless, if they decide. If it goes to SCOTUS, who knows what will happen? It might be one of those moments where the impact of not having enough conservatives on the bench becomes really obvious.

Apple is easily in the right here, but I'm not going to be holding my breath on the actual outcome. We might be looking back on this as that crucial moment when bill of rights really fell apart (though it's been being eroded for a while now).

Government overreach and power is not a conservative thing. We want small government and a very restricted government and when there is a dispute, the tie goes to the rights, freedom and privacy of the citizenry. What makes you Dem libs think that conservatives are for government being able to intrude on our lives. We're the privacy folks and were the ones always accused of having the tinfoil hats. The last thing we want is to side with governments and their 1984 mindset. Were the get off my lawn crowd. I fully support Apple and the only conservatives I see supporting this are a few politicians tied to these intelligence communities. I was stunned to hear them take the FBI side on this.

 

[duffman9000]

The weird thing about it is that Steve Jobs seemed to have some kind of aura about him that kept the evil ones at bay. Maybe it was his unbridled positivity.

I don't doubt that Tim Cook loves Apple. But when I think of Steve I think that he was Apple. He would have gone on the offensive if anyone dared to sully Apple.

 

[thewitt]

I'm not sure why a lot of people are teeing off on the Republicans when the FBI/DoJ is run by Obama appointees.

I guess all those dailykos and moveon readers just love to froth at the mouth and blame Republicans for everything they don't like, which wakes you wonder how stable their worldview really is.

Repeat: the DoJ and FBI are staffed by Obama appointees, and have been since is first term. Hello?

Knuckle dragging mouth breathers are apparently on both sides of the aisle now.

Because it's always our fault, even when it's 100% the responsibility of the liberals in charge.

Bush did it.

I'm sure he killed Vince Foster too...

 

[iZac]

All powerful magic wands? I just got invested in this story ... Perhaps this if the real 8th Harry Potter novel.

The Evil FBI is trying to get into Gringotts to recover a secret Horcrux and Tim Cook is The Boy That Lived.

 

[phillipduran]

If Apple ends up being "legally compelled" to unlock the phone and retrieve the information contained on it, I want the contents public. I want to know what was so important that the government has to trample on our rights.

I'll bet, since this is a work phone, there is nothing of use on this phone.
[doublepost=1458133938][/doublepost]
...by completely trampling on the separation of church and state over and over again. By hiding behind "Christianity" to discriminate against people who are not like them (e.g., Muslims, gays, atheists, etc.). By backing corporations over citizens. By continuing to make less-skilled people live below the poverty level because they work a minimum wage job. By forcing women to have children by denying them safe and legal abortions, then eliminating government-funded child care for those children. By denying climate change and backing polluting corporations, making the 1% even richer (see: Koch brothers).

Yeah, that's a great group of people you've aligned yourself with. Exactly what the founding fathers would have wanted. And exactly what Jesus would do. /s

Your ignorance of the laws regarding what you call "The separation of church and state" is painful to read but not surprising. Seems like you're from the "I get my facts from MSNBC" crowd. The constitution says that the government cannot establish a state religion or restrict the free exercise of religion. That's it. It is expected that our leaders can be and can be influenced by their religious beliefs and that is evident throughout our founding and our political leadership throughout the life of this nation. BUT it is not requirement to be religious and there will be not religious qualification for office. The state does not have the right to establish a state religion. You can be of any religious opinion and be elected to office and push legislation in support of your religious view. You know . . .Religous freedom, not religious separation.

You support abortion on one hand and then talk about child care on the other. How about getting consistent in your view and learn to respect all childrens lives. You libs always amaze me with how you're so concerned about the kids that are born but are just fine and speak with pride about your ability to slaughter them.

 

[Rocketman]

Then sell the living person.

 

[Razeus]

Something tells me that Apple already has the back door and doesn't want its users to know they've been spying on us.

 

[duffman9000]

You support abortion on one hand and then talk about child care on the other. How about getting consistent in your view and learn to respect all childrens lives. You libs always amaze me with how you're so concerned about the kids that are born but are just fine and speak with pride about your ability to slaughter them.

You repubs always amaze me with how you're so concerned about the kids that are not born yet, but once they're born, screw them if their parents are poor.

 

[phillipduran]

You repubs always amaze me with how you're so concerned about the kids that are not born yet, but once they're born, screw them if their parents are poor.

You have to ignore the existence of all of the religious charities that help and support children and families to believe that. Screw no one, but if you think the road to a stable life for you and your family is living on government handouts you're wrong. Socialism is not for the USA.

 

[dk001]

The government currently doesn't seem to care about whatever defense is made. Maybe Apple should get John Oliver to make a statement on their behalf.

Can you visualize an interview between Oliver and Gowdy?
Someone get me tickets!!!
[doublepost=1458145994][/doublepost]

You know they're desperate when they resort to something written in 1789...

(I'm not downplaying important legislation on the whole from that period like the Constitution...)

I would hope not. You consider our 5th Amendment is based off of the Magna Carta... Those older times did have some ground breaking thoughts.

 

[duffman9000]

You have to ignore the existence of all of the religious charities that help and support children and families to believe that. Screw no one, but if you think the road to a stable life for you and your family is living on government handouts you're wrong. Socialism is not for the USA.

I didn't mention socialism so I don't know where you're getting that from. I'm referring to republican polices that care more about the unborn than the born.

But speaking of socialism, im amazed that repubs favor corporate welfare vs people welfare.

 

[Rocketman]

I'm referring to republican polices that care more about the unborn than the born. But speaking of socialism, im amazed that repubs favor corporate welfare vs people welfare.

You either misunderstand or misstate the facts. All 357 R or D House jobs bills over 4 years died in the D Senate, ordered by the D President. So despite the rhetoric the D party utters, its actual policies are opposite that.

cite:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...nn-jenkins-blames-harry-reid-do-nothing-sena/

http://www.offthegridnews.com/how-to-2/harry-reid-the-bill-stops-here/

http://amac.us/top-10-bipartisan-jobs-bills-blocked-by-senate-democrats/

 

[dk001]

Take the time to read Apple's response even if you blow by the case cites and footnotes. The main text is quite instructive.

This administration is trying really hard to install a total police state by judicial order.

That violates each person's oath of office.

What court can I redress my grievances in without being a party in this case. I am a citizen.

Rocketman

Word of the day: Dragoon.
[doublepost=1458148651][/doublepost]

What is the highest victory Apple can hope to achieve in this case?

Case dismissed with prejudice?
Court opinion completely invalidates the FBI's case?
Something else that prevents the FBI, or any bureaucracy, from trying this crap on other tech companies?

Politics sell the headlines, but I am interested in the procedures and possible outcomes.

That is the challenge.
It would not surprise me at all to see the FBI withdraw and the warrant be vacated.
However, now that the DOJ has bounced into the ring with an authoritarian "Let's get ready to Rumble!", that is not so easy.
I wonder if this judge will rule or allow it pass on into appeal in order to dodge a decision and angering her "supporters".

 

[duffman9000]

You either misunderstand or misstate the facts. All 357 R or D House jobs bills over 4 years died in the D Senate, ordered by the D President. So despite the rhetoric the D party utters, its actual policies are opposite that.

cite:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...nn-jenkins-blames-harry-reid-do-nothing-sena/

http://www.offthegridnews.com/how-to-2/harry-reid-the-bill-stops-here/

http://amac.us/top-10-bipartisan-jobs-bills-blocked-by-senate-democrats/

I didn't know history only went back 4 years.
Don't know why you're bringing D anything into this. Bashing the repubs doesn't mean I'm a D. Is that how repubs think?

 

[dec.]

I'm not sure why a lot of people are teeing off on the Republicans when the FBI/DoJ is run by Obama appointees.

I guess all those dailykos and moveon readers just love to froth at the mouth and blame Republicans for everything they don't like, which wakes you wonder how stable their worldview really is.

Repeat: the DoJ and FBI are staffed by Obama appointees, and have been since is first term. Hello?

Knuckle dragging mouth breathers are apparently on both sides of the aisle now.

I agree. I mean of course all of the GOP candidates have been siding with the FBI on this when asked (Trump "who do Apple think they are?") and the Democratic Candidates were impartial on it (with at least Sanders referring to civil rights), but ultimately none of these people are in charge right now.

 

[Larry-K]

I really like knowing my drug dealing and trafficking women data is secure and that Apple is protecting me and hampering law enforcement.

How long have you been a member of congress?

 

[You are the One]

Having a back door is about more efficient, possibly robotic or semi-automated law enforcement.

Semi-automated law enforcement is so yesterday.

Take the backdoored iDevices or any type of device for that matter, add some profiling and hook up the whole thing to drones with Hellfires and you have a fully automated system to keep the slaves at bay.

Far fetched? I think not, look at what DARPA is doing.

 

[dk001]

Workplace violence by US citizens shall be treated as "Terrorism" (for a change) for the purpose of massive legal over-reach by a federally appointed community organizer. This is what happens when you fools elect a CO to be POTUS with excessive training in the Constitution and a strong desire to bypass and avert it.

No further comment needed.

So true. There are so many "legal" definitions of [terrorist] out there.
Just about anything can be made to fit.
[doublepost=1458151236][/doublepost]

I think John Oliver won TBQH. That ad was EVERYTHING! Even idiots can get it.

We watched this as a group at work (all highly educated engineers ) and at the conclusion of Johns' show had one person ask "That can't be real... can it?"

 

[techwhiz]

I agree. I mean of course all of the GOP candidates have been siding with the FBI on this when asked (Trump "who do Apple think they are?") and the Democratic Candidates were impartial on it (with at least Sanders referring to civil rights), but ultimately none of these people are in charge right now.

Exactly.
Just because Obama said something about it doesn't make this a democrat vs republican issue.
Privacy issues like this are not partisan. This is quite simply the privacy of the populace vs the wants of the FBI/DOJ.
The FBI and DOJ have some political leaning, but this is about power. The power of the government to force an company to develop something that does not exist.

People take off your partisan gear and realize that if we are fighting each other we are not paying attention to the real issue. The new grab of governmental power. The Patriot Act was done under GW but Obama uses it. You need not believe that if this happens under Obama that a republican POTUS won't use the powers.