No one required you to ONLY use the touch screen!!! You still have the touchpad/mouse, which is what you will be using most of the time (for a computer), but, there are moments "directly touching the target on the screen" makes 1000% more sense than "locating the mouse cursor first, moving it to the target, then clicking it".
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Apple Says Touchscreen Macs 'Not a Particularly Useful or Appropriate Application of Multi-Touch'
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No one required you to ONLY use the touch screen!!! You still have the touchpad/mouse, which is what you will be using most of the time (for a computer), but, there are moments "directly touching the target on the screen" makes 1000% more sense than "locating the mouse cursor first, moving it to the target, then clicking it".
Reasonable. Apple doesn't want to pay for the option. They evidently feel there is not enough value added to the experience. Also, how then would they convince you to buy and iPad too? They would still sell (they are lighter than a Surface), but it probably doesn't make sense to their bottom line.
Touchscreen laptops are ok if the device isn't a laptop only, but a convertible. Touchscreen laptop position only devices are absolute garbage and I have no idea how they've gotten this far. Constantly moving your hands up and down the device while at a desk for instance or even lounging on a sofa is not comfortable. When your hands are on a keyboard and you reach up to tap a cursor-designed element you can't even aim properly. I don't know how anyone thinks that is any way to work with a device. I'm glad Apple are around to restrain the industry and not fall into bad gimmicks to ship more units. The Touch Bar can be rather useful. Especially later on when muscle memory helps you tap the shortcuts with your peripheral vision aiding you. Why would you want to tap the display on macOS at tiny elements? MacBooks have the industry's best trackpads, and you want to aimlessly jab at your display? That's a workaround for Windows laptops with terrible trackpads. The MacBook will sooner have a ThinkPad style TrackPoint than a touchsceen (which is a pretty decent pointing device, I use it a lot).
In my particular use case, I did not rely solely on the touchscreen. Simply using it intermittently led to discomfort and fatigue in my wrist.
With the current tech, a touch screen would...
a) make battery life worse
b) get fingerprints, dirt, grease, etc. all over the screen
c) would make the screen and laptop body thicker in order to have the components necessary to implement a touchable screen.
I'm sure Apple will implement a new UI paradigm when there are screens that can be manipulated without touch. A touch screen without the touching part. That's when it would make sense.
a) make battery life worse
b) get fingerprints, dirt, grease, etc. all over the screen
c) would make the screen and laptop body thicker in order to have the components necessary to implement a touchable screen.
I'm sure Apple will implement a new UI paradigm when there are screens that can be manipulated without touch. A touch screen without the touching part. That's when it would make sense.
You think that way only because you didn't understand the real usage of the touch screen. It's not to replace the touchpad/mouse, it's to supplement, for the 5% of the time when it is a lot lot more convenient than the mouse (e.g. after a long reading, or a long typing, so that the mouse cursor has hidden itself, and you just need to press one button (or click one link) to go to the next step).
I am most definitely not interested in a touch screen laptop. Not only is it awkward to interact with but you would also get tons of fingerprints all over your screen. I'll reserved judgement on the touch bar until after I've had a chance to use it. I use a Wacom for Photoshop work, but I couldn't see interacting directly with the screen.
I understand, but I just don't like the idea of drawing or writing or touching something at the angle of a laptop screen. I personally don't need this functionality, and if I did, I'd buy an iPad.
Obviously you were using the touch screen for the sake of "experimenting", or more accurately, random experimenting, without understanding when it should help you and when it would not.
Examples of usage:
1. after a long reading, or a long typing, so that the mouse cursor has hidden itself, and you just need to press one button (or click one link) to go to the next step;
2. while you are working (reading or typing, doesn't matter) in an app, a notification suddenly jumps in, from another app, obviously;
3. while you are typing in one window, you realized that you want to drag over a picture from another open window
I don't need a MacBook with touchscreen. I want an iPad Pro with optional keyboard/trackpad and full macOS experience the moment I attach the keyboard.
So basically an MacBook Pro with a detachable iPad Pro as screen.
A 'slate', as it was called 10 years ago, before touch technology became useful.
Can't be that hard to get that right or?
So basically an MacBook Pro with a detachable iPad Pro as screen.
A 'slate', as it was called 10 years ago, before touch technology became useful.
Can't be that hard to get that right or?
I hope that is not obvious because that is not true. The onus is on me for not explaining that well. I was helping my friend write a paper in microsoft word. My thumb is next to the touchpad at all times. In this instance I was using the touchscreen to move the cursor, select misspelled words, etc. Even with this short experience, I was decidedly turned off. I understand that you like this particular feature; it would be asinine for me to assume everyone is like me.
I think the piece folks are over looking with the "you don't have to use it but it would be nice to have" comments is that a touch screen enabled Mac needs a completely overhauled OS that is touch compatible. MacOS isn't designed for touch, neither are most of the applications that run on it. You can't just merge MacOS and iOS because they are designed for different architectures, and then you go down the route of having different user experience depending on what Mac you're using. Should Mac mini work with touch if you connect a touch enable display? What happens if it doesn't have the same sensitivity/multi-touch capability as Apple's own displays. You start down these paths and you can see why touch and Mac are not ideal bed fellows.
As I said in a couple of other posts, an advance track pad could be an option. It's already glass and multi-touch, slap a display in there and suddenly you have a contextually aware second screen that can offer different tools/shortcuts depending on the app you're using, and the functionality can be ported to the Magic Trackpad. Alternative/additionally, a 'TrackPad' mode for iOS devices that allows you to use your phone/tablet in the same fashion could be brilliant. Imagine the large iPad Pro with Pencil as a contextually aware input device for Photoshop or similar. Colour palettes and other tools available on the iPad along with drawing etc...
The complete lack of consistency over Lightning, 3.5mm, USB-C etc... is a joke. It's fine whilst folks are still using their high-end headphones with the Lightning to 3.5mm adapter, but what happens if you're in the market to buy a new pair? Whether you go for Lightning or 3.5mm on the end you will need an adapter for one of your devices!
As I said in a couple of other posts, an advance track pad could be an option. It's already glass and multi-touch, slap a display in there and suddenly you have a contextually aware second screen that can offer different tools/shortcuts depending on the app you're using, and the functionality can be ported to the Magic Trackpad. Alternative/additionally, a 'TrackPad' mode for iOS devices that allows you to use your phone/tablet in the same fashion could be brilliant. Imagine the large iPad Pro with Pencil as a contextually aware input device for Photoshop or similar. Colour palettes and other tools available on the iPad along with drawing etc...
The complete lack of consistency over Lightning, 3.5mm, USB-C etc... is a joke. It's fine whilst folks are still using their high-end headphones with the Lightning to 3.5mm adapter, but what happens if you're in the market to buy a new pair? Whether you go for Lightning or 3.5mm on the end you will need an adapter for one of your devices!
Alrighty then. Sure, you can have freedom of speech, but it doesn't mean that your words are anything more than a babbling mess that represents the true you.
How's that for free speech?
I guess it depends on your experience. If you grew up with iPad, it's more natural to you. For young and old people for sure. I grew up with a mouse, and there's nothing more efficient than a physical keyboard, unless you need to write equations, or draw illustrations, charts.
I know one thing for sure. If you're using the device all day every day, nothing beats a mouse. Our fingers were not designed to be moved around 12 hours a day 7 days a week. That causes RSI. Using a mouse never caused me any pain, but playing with an iPad can cause a slight pain after a couple of days of heavy use. The same with a trackpad, it's not only 10x slower than a mouse, it causes 10x the pain. A mouse can be moved from elbow or wrist, which can easily take the repetitive stress. However, our fingers are operated via wires that move inside a tunnel, which is very precise, but cannot handle repetitive stress.
For the causal checking of email, facebook, photos, it doesn't matter. But if I'm operating the machine all day every day, I'd rather save my fingers, avoid the stress, and use the mouse. I can use the trackpad for an hour, after that every cell in my brain is craving for a mouse. I'm not going to change, because no amount of training or practice can make me comfortable with repetitive finger stress. Our biology was optimized for a mouse, not for delicate touch.
I know one thing for sure. If you're using the device all day every day, nothing beats a mouse. Our fingers were not designed to be moved around 12 hours a day 7 days a week. That causes RSI. Using a mouse never caused me any pain, but playing with an iPad can cause a slight pain after a couple of days of heavy use. The same with a trackpad, it's not only 10x slower than a mouse, it causes 10x the pain. A mouse can be moved from elbow or wrist, which can easily take the repetitive stress. However, our fingers are operated via wires that move inside a tunnel, which is very precise, but cannot handle repetitive stress.
For the causal checking of email, facebook, photos, it doesn't matter. But if I'm operating the machine all day every day, I'd rather save my fingers, avoid the stress, and use the mouse. I can use the trackpad for an hour, after that every cell in my brain is craving for a mouse. I'm not going to change, because no amount of training or practice can make me comfortable with repetitive finger stress. Our biology was optimized for a mouse, not for delicate touch.
Agreed, and you bring up a good point with the whole, using it at a desk when connected to an external display thing. I can't imagine that when most people use their MBP at a desk (and when connected to external displays) that they're going to be using the built-in keyboard. I guess this means there'll soon be a $300 keyboard with touch bar accessory. At that point you would have paid for two touch bars.
Where does it end? I'd be happy with an updated version of the late 2012 Mac Mini.
Totally.
I wouldn't consider Apple products a particularly useful or appropriate application of my money anymore
I wonder if Apple testing includes the actual Pro users. Ives needs to get off his high horse FAST. Also, somebody send them a SurfaceBook, you know, those computers that become touch friendly because it turns into a tablet.
That's because PRO users know to buy an iPad Pro for all their iOS touch needs like swiping pictures, and a MacBook Pro for all their computer needs. Timmy and Jony have made it so simple for all the Pro $$ users.
I used the Surface Book for a project at the office for two months or so, and I loved it way more than my current MacBook Pro Retina.
The thing is, touch screen is really meant for when you want to transition into tablet mode (by detaching it from the keyboard). It worked really well in that mode, and their version of the Pencil/Pen was also quite nice (some noticeable lag at times, admittedly). I enjoyed working in that, but the two main problems I had were weight (not heavy to me, but I can see why it might be to many folks), and some software nuances like the software keyboard not automatically popping up when you go to write something.
For touch screen when it is in laptop mode, I used it occasionally and spontaneously. when I did use it, it was very helpful to have. For those of us who don't want to keep swiping away at the trackpad to mouse over to close a window for example, or want to hit that cell in Excel and switch back to another sheet. The touchscreen made those things a breeze. Trackpad was definitely my primary input in laptop mode, but having the touchscreen really helped.
You really have to try the Surface Book intuitively to enjoy it. You can't force a "touch only" laptop mode, otherwise yes, your wrist hurts. But when you start using it as a laptop with a trackpad, but having the OPTION to touch the screen to quickly do something or swipe something. I think that's where it hits the right notes. My MacBook Pro retina definitely feels behind and ancient, having experienced the Surface Book. And I don't think the new MacBooks closed that gap one bit.
Noticed that last night, when a gentleman tried to use the campaign's cheap laptops as if they had touch screens. Of course, windows laptops generally have horrible trackpads, so maybe those were good instincts.
It's very difficult to do that without Apple cloning the Surface.
There's a reason it's becoming the defacto student laptop... I lectured to uni first years in the UK last week: Surface Pros are everywhere. It makes sense: combines multiple products, the Air was aging, and it hits the price point.
I have no idea why Apple is abandoning the university student market: they invested a fortune to try to capture it in the 2000s... it's how you capture lifelong customers.
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Budget laptops yes: premium laptops, the trackpads are pretty much equal these days. My partner's XPS trackpad is functionality identical to my Air and 2015 MBP.