Apple Seeds Mac OS X 10.5.2 and Java SE 6 Preview 8 for Leopard

[i.maverick]

i know..

Apple: please fix Mail.app. It's pretty buggy in Leopard.

mail.app is my only pet peeve for leopard
notes can't be deleted..they just come back to haunt me!!
new message windows hang up..they don't send and they don't go away and i need to force quit the app!!
o.w leopards been a deam...quicklook.W.O.W!!

 

[JSchwage]

Here's to hoping this one will fix the wireless problems. My dad is getting quite frustrated with his MacBook Pro (his first Mac) because his wireless keeps on having troubles.

 

[iBunny]

I have no other issues except the Jerky/Slow Animations.

I just think we need new/better video card drivers

 

[Amuraivel]

In particular I find Cocoa the most wonderfully thought out framework I have ever used. And the beauty of Objective C is its simplicity, to ad features to the language would destroy what makes it so special.

Java 6 missing.

I am still angry that the Java version of Cocoa environment was deprecated...I actually had a shot at programming using my java skills, now the whole thing is just a put off. Moreover, doesn't the new objC support garbage collection like Java now?

 

[spookje]

Yes, let's hope it comes before New Year. They should fix all the issues with Leopard from Bluetooth and Wireless reliability, instability of Quicktime, Mail, Safari and Spaces (stops working out-of-nothing).

 

[Feverish Flux]

Not sure if I will wait for this or not.

Have a new HDD coming from MacSales and I'm pretty sure I'm going to go back to Tiger. And I've never downgraded an OS before, which is pretty telling.

Mail quits frequently.
No sleep with externals attached.
Apps are slow to launch.
Leopard takes at least twice as long to boot.
Google Earth is basically unusable.
Still waiting for SuperDuper.

It just doesn't feel as quick as Tiger. Of course I have no concrete evidence of it, but it just feels sluggish.

Don't remember Tiger being this buggy, but maybe it was. My fault for buying and installing a .0 release, though.

 

[kerryn]

I find it funny that people describe Leopard as a "Roachfest". Having just come over to Leopard from Windows a few weeks back I find it quite wonderful compared to windows. Perfect no, but not quite the roachfest that people describe here.

Its telling how much the Windows crapfest has lowered my expectations for an OS. I do not experience any wifi problems nor Safari instability (probably because I use Firefox) and my one BIG problem is the keyboard issue with the Macbook (that apparently is fixed today via another software update).

All in all I am quite happy, still I can't wait for 10.5.2 to see how much it improves!

 

[kornyboy]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)

So does this mean java 6 will be 64bit only :\


if that's the case and apple is allready rejecting it's 32 bit user base... I dunno what to say.

I see what you are saying. Aren't all Mac notebooks still running on just 32 bit chips? I think that dropping the support for 32 bit chipsets will be a mistake, but if that is the case it may not have been up to Apple.

 

[emotion]

I see what you are saying. Aren't all Mac notebooks still running on just 32 bit chips?

All 64 bit now. Have been for well over a year.

Still, 32 bit support isn't going away.

 

[Eraserhead]

Java 6 missing.

I am still angry that the Java version of Cocoa environment was deprecated...I actually had a shot at programming using my java skills, now the whole thing is just a put off. Moreover, doesn't the new objC support garbage collection like Java now?

ObjC 2.0 supports Garbage collecting. I think Java was depreciated as no-one was using it, that is clear from Aaron Hiligass's book. The advantage of Java is that its cross platform, but that is removed if you stick a Cocoa UI on it.

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)
I see what you are saying. Aren't all Mac notebooks still running on just 32 bit chips? I think that dropping the support for 32 bit chipsets will be a mistake, but if that is the case it may not have been up to Apple.

No, but this is just a seed, they probably think the 64 bit version is better or that it needs more feedback than the 32 bit version.

 

[robbieduncan]

ObjC 2.0 supports Garbage collecting. I think Java was depreciated as no-one was using it, that is clear from Aaron Hiligass's book. The advantage of Java is that its cross platform, but that is removed if you stick a Cocoa UI on it.

Whilst very few people were using it and it stops being cross platform once you used the Cocoa classes the real reason Apple gave for stopping support for the Java bridge AND adding support for Python/Ruby bridges is that Java is fundamentally less dynamically typed than Obj-C, so was a very bad fit. Lots of strange hoops had to be jumped through to move data around and the whole thing was a badly designed kludge. Ruby/Python are much closer to Obj-C in this respect so the bridges are simple and elegant.

 

[Squonk]

These issues of GUI performance make me glad that I'm still on Tiger for now. I sure hope that 10.5.2 fixes these in time for my MBP purchase after MWSF.

To those experiencing the GUI performance issues, are you saying it would feel slower than my 1.25GHz G4 with Tiger on it? If so, that would really be, well, crappy.

Maybe I should consider at 2.2/2.4 refurb with the Leopard drop-in CD and just stay on Tiger for a bit longer...

 

[emotion]

These issues of GUI performance make me glad that I'm still on Tiger for now. I sure hope that 10.5.2 fixes these in time for my MBP purchase after MWSF.

To those experiencing the GUI performance issues, are you saying it would feel slower than my 1.25GHz G4 with Tiger on it? If so, that would really be, well, crappy.

Maybe I should consider at 2.2/2.4 refurb with the Leopard drop-in CD and just stay on Tiger for a bit longer...

I've seen a few problems with Leopard but not seen the choppy video on this 2.2GHz SR MBP.

Leopard is quicker in some respects when compared to Tiger for this machine (and on my macbook 2GHz C2D too).

My colleague here has a 1.67GHz powerbook running Leopard smoothly enough (he says it feels quicker than Tiger). He does see the Mail.app problems though.

 

[guzhogi]

I've been using Leopard for a while now and haven't really experienced any problems on my MBP. Only thing was the keyboard thing where it doesn't take the 1st letter. I did use pre-release versions of Leopard and REALLY buggy.

 

[0racle]

Please Steve, can I have some Active Directory fixes?

 

[thats nice]

Does anyone know if this release fixes the calendar syncing problems with the iPhone? I buy leopard and a new iPhone and get screwed with no calender syncing...

edit - after playing around with it just now it seems i have got it working. lets hope it doesn't go off on its own little escapade like last time and delete all my calender notes

 

[Eraserhead]

Lots of strange hoops had to be jumped through to move data around and the whole thing was a badly designed kludge. Ruby/Python are much closer to Obj-C in this respect so the bridges are simple and elegant.

OK That makes sense. This wikipedia article is interesting if you didn't understand this before.

 

[cecemf]

Two bugs stand out to me.....

1. Major one is Wifi drops in and out often for no reason. Really frustrating! When I look at the meter it says "scanning..."

2. This is small but I don't get the sound when I receive new mail. I get the indicator but no sound. Have no idea why. Perhaps I am the only one.

I like Leopard very much but small bugs sometime get irritating more than anything but the Wifi issue is serious.

I have the alum. imac Core2Duo and leopard 10.5.1 installed and had no problem with WIFI at all !!! it's there and it's stays connected !!!

But i use to have that problem on tiger and Apple advise me to take Automatic OFF from Location in Wireless preference and to creat a profil for my Wireless box and it worked like a charm !!!! so that might work on Leopard as well !!!

 

[bilbo--baggins]

I find it funny that people describe Leopard as a "Roachfest". Having just come over to Leopard from Windows a few weeks back I find it quite wonderful compared to windows. Perfect no, but not quite the roachfest that people describe here.

There are far more problems with Leopard than I have experience with previous Mac OS releases. It's a combination of LOTS if minor bugs, plus some stuff thats seriously broken - like AirDisk and iChat completely messed up and unusable for lots of people.

 

[zorinlynx]

Mail quits frequently.
No sleep with externals attached.
Apps are slow to launch.
Leopard takes at least twice as long to boot.
Google Earth is basically unusable.
Still waiting for SuperDuper.

It really sounds like you have a borked install. Mail works fine for me, as does Google Earth. Apps launch quickly and sleep works fine when external devices are attached.

Try a fresh install. Upgrade installs can cause probleme sometimes; my upgrade install went well but if your system is wedged in an obscure way under Tiger, it can totally break things when you move to leopard.

 

[morespce54]

76 bug fixes?

For Leopard?

At this rate, it may be 10.5.8 before Leopard gets to release quality.

Let's hope Apple has fixed many, many more bugs than 76 and Apple is just no disclosing the full list or full count.

Leopard is a total train wreck on the quality front. Such a shame since it is a great OS otherwise...

I agree. I must had pretty much all 76 bugs...
Okay, not really, but even if I like (a lot) Leopard, I can't wait to get to a better/more stable release...

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Java 6 missing.

I am still angry that the Java version of Cocoa environment was deprecated...I actually had a shot at programming using my java skills, now the whole thing is just a put off. Moreover, doesn't the new objC support garbage collection like Java now?

Java was never a competitor for client/server apps next to Cocoa/ObjC and it was a bad decision to make an attempt to make it so for so many years.

Now that they've realized it and put some crucial improvements into ObjC 2.0 and Cocoa.

Apple never should have wasted the cycles on the Java/Cocoa Bridge. That has been a sore spot for many of us since the closing days of NeXT and the merger.

However, Apple needs to release a comprehensive strategy/guidance on their goals for Java and how it fits in with their business model(s).

 

[alosii]

I'm not having any problems with Mail, Safari or any other Apple made software for that matter... and im using an old Powerbook G4 1.6GHz. The only thing I've noticed is the jerky animations with the dock and exposé/Spaces. How do you ppl keep breaking your Leopard?

This completely eliminates any interest in doing Java on Apple for me. I'll focus on Java for Linux only.

You do know that Java is supposed to be platform independent right? Besides this is only a Developer Preview, Im sure the 32bit UB will be out soon

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Whilst very few people were using it and it stops being cross platform once you used the Cocoa classes the real reason Apple gave for stopping support for the Java bridge AND adding support for Python/Ruby bridges is that Java is fundamentally less dynamically typed than Obj-C, so was a very bad fit. Lots of strange hoops had to be jumped through to move data around and the whole thing was a badly designed kludge. Ruby/Python are much closer to Obj-C in this respect so the bridges are simple and elegant.

Correct. And I'd add I'd much rather see the return of WebObjects ObjC/Cocoa with the addition of Ruby/Python in the mix to make a push into the market NeXT help truly define.

 

[iBunny]

Looks like 10.5.2 could hold the new world record for the biggest delta update. 355MB. Has any other delta been bigger?

It would be hilarious (but in a very sick way) if Apple limit Java 6 support to Core 2 Duo/Extreme and Xeon. A lot of my customers use a business critical Java product which recently forced them all to Tiger because of Java 5 requirement. I can see them going to Java 6-only. They're covered by AMP... so Leopard isn't necessarily an issue. They do have a lot of pre-64-bit Intel Macs. They're liable to replace them with PCs.

How do you know that it will be 355MB? Just curious?

If its true, its exciting!