okay so i keep reading about people not being able to deel with apple. how would apple know who they were dealing with if that person walked into a bestbuy or apple store or whatever and paid cash for something?
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Apple sent me 2 MBPs
- Thread starter sixwings
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Ya I read that as well. That guy needs to escalate this right up the chain of command until he gets some results. Unfortunately he is suffering from someones misplaced company loyalty and lack of common sense and customer service. Raise hell so to say...
Yeah, seriously ... that's how I see these things too
In this world, most things aren't truly "black and white". They're various shades of gray.
If a company screws up in some way that's to my advantage, I have to look at the overall picture. Did they screw me over in the past or mistreat me as a customer? If they clearly "owe me" anyway? Then that will affect my willingness to co-operate.
In Apple's case, they've got a pretty good track record of taking care of me when I had problems. (Not flawless, mind you. I have at least one horror story about repeated poor customer service.) But in a situation like this one, I'd wait and see what transpired and definitely give back the duplicate notebook if they asked for it.
As someone already pointed out, the shipper would easily be able to determine where they delivered the first notebook, and further, would be able to verify that it was picked up after the initial incorrect drop-off and subsequently delivered to the correct address. This isn't something they'd just drop without asking you about it -- so you'd wind up having to either give it back or getting into a big web of lies to try to hang onto it.
In this world, most things aren't truly "black and white". They're various shades of gray.
If a company screws up in some way that's to my advantage, I have to look at the overall picture. Did they screw me over in the past or mistreat me as a customer? If they clearly "owe me" anyway? Then that will affect my willingness to co-operate.
In Apple's case, they've got a pretty good track record of taking care of me when I had problems. (Not flawless, mind you. I have at least one horror story about repeated poor customer service.) But in a situation like this one, I'd wait and see what transpired and definitely give back the duplicate notebook if they asked for it.
As someone already pointed out, the shipper would easily be able to determine where they delivered the first notebook, and further, would be able to verify that it was picked up after the initial incorrect drop-off and subsequently delivered to the correct address. This isn't something they'd just drop without asking you about it -- so you'd wind up having to either give it back or getting into a big web of lies to try to hang onto it.
Seems the moral compass of our society is broken... How sad...
... After reading some of the posts on this thread I am really saddened and concerned about the very moral fabric of our society and where we are headed with some of the opinions expressed here. Unbelievable the way some of these morons have been brought up with a total disregard for honesty or sense of social responsibility.
50 years ago, growing up, we were taught the difference between right and wrong, about honesty and morals, do onto others, etc. It seems that was a whole different age and state of conscientious socially. My parents were far from perfect but they did instill in me certain values and a sense of social justice and responsibility. Beng a good citizen was never an option or up for discussion. It was just something you did because you were responsible member of our society and it was the right thing to do.
I find it amazing how things have changed so much in such a short period of time. I shudder to think what this country will be like in another 50 years given the dramatic change in our social fabric. The current direction of the collective moral compass and opinions I have read not only here on this thread but in other media as well cause me great concern. Personal and corporate greed seems to be the new doctrine. Stealing and dishonesty on so many levels can not be sustained.
Look at history and you will see over thousands of years societies have crumbled and vanished because of this very type of moral cancer. What kind of generation are we raising??? It's getting scary with the direction our future society is headed... IMHO... I fear it might even be too late to change... I truly hope I'm wrong...
... After reading some of the posts on this thread I am really saddened and concerned about the very moral fabric of our society and where we are headed with some of the opinions expressed here. Unbelievable the way some of these morons have been brought up with a total disregard for honesty or sense of social responsibility.50 years ago, growing up, we were taught the difference between right and wrong, about honesty and morals, do onto others, etc. It seems that was a whole different age and state of conscientious socially. My parents were far from perfect but they did instill in me certain values and a sense of social justice and responsibility. Beng a good citizen was never an option or up for discussion. It was just something you did because you were responsible member of our society and it was the right thing to do.
I find it amazing how things have changed so much in such a short period of time. I shudder to think what this country will be like in another 50 years given the dramatic change in our social fabric. The current direction of the collective moral compass and opinions I have read not only here on this thread but in other media as well cause me great concern. Personal and corporate greed seems to be the new doctrine. Stealing and dishonesty on so many levels can not be sustained.
Look at history and you will see over thousands of years societies have crumbled and vanished because of this very type of moral cancer. What kind of generation are we raising??? It's getting scary with the direction our future society is headed... IMHO... I fear it might even be too late to change... I truly hope I'm wrong...
I don't get it, this seems like a no-brainer to me. Apple knows that the laptop is missing, UPS screwed up, there wasn't any waiting to see if the situation would sort itself out... you ended up getting the laptop that you wanted, so good thing you returned the replacement.
Nobody said anything about an absolute moral authority -- this is a straightforward case of getting something that isn't yours. There isn't really any opinion going on other than whether you should do the right thing or not.
Secondly, you're nitpicking -- obviously customer service wouldn't go away completely, but I'm talking about Apple customer service, which is several cuts above the norm.
Lastly, in the car example, obviously the driver has legal responsibility, but passerby have an ETHICAL responsibility to respond reasonably. IANAL, but I'm pretty sure the law says something similar.
You may disagree on what constitutes ethical, but most people would agree that taking something that isn't yours isn't ethical. Whether you think the person (or company, or whatever) needs it doesn't really change that.
at the same time though, you gotta ask who's bringing us up?
i mean come on, there's a whole country out there that have just been robbed of $700B.. they're witnessing 'our' govt committing mass murder for monetary reasons.. exxon is posting record profits and it's not too hard to figure out why -- steal oil and double its price.. chinese slave labor + way overpriced components is another way to boost those profits..
meanwhile, you're thinking a pleb that happens upon some corporate swag is going to bring down the nation... they aren't the cause. they're an effect of what's going on.. and what's going on just happens to be by people that were raised in your idyllic 1960s..
if you want to cry moral/ethics/karma and whatnot, at least cry at the people that deserve it.. otherwise you're right - it is too late to fix.
Actually, I couldn't agree with you more... and "we the people" have allowed this treason to happen. It's the general "state of mind" or lack thereof that will bring down this country. A good working democracy requires participation. Until we stop the corporate bribery called "Campaign Contributions" and hold these politicians accountable at the polls, nothing is going to change. It's "Government for sale to the highest bidder." And we are letting these crooks get away with it. Check out http://maplight.org/ and see who bought these crooks that call themselves politicians. Personally I think we need to fire most of these people over the next several elections. I truly has become a crisis the likes of which we have never seen before inn the history of this country. Everyone needs to stand up, get involved and kick some political booty...
Al of this is just a symtom of the real problem...
OP you did the right thing by returning the mbp...
i wonder why "keep it" was even an option...what the hell is wrong with some people?
even if it was an extra mag safe i would've returned it...
i wonder why "keep it" was even an option...what the hell is wrong with some people?
even if it was an extra mag safe i would've returned it...
we elect from whats available and there is not much available . Sad to say but $ and power will and does change 99.9 % of people to one or another extand. You moral here, but next time when bigger opporunity would arise and no way of comming back to you, where would you be?
How many people of 1000 if found a wallet with $5000. cash would call the owner and give back?, or just would take cash and walk away?
Alot of people wouldn't take a MacBook because it could be traced!, it is maybe sad but this the way the world is today
. Sad to say but $ and power will and does change 99.9 % of people to one or another extand. You moral here, but next time when bigger opporunity would arise and no way of comming back to you, where would you be?How many people of 1000 if found a wallet with $5000. cash would call the owner and give back?, or just would take cash and walk away?
Alot of people wouldn't take a MacBook because it could be traced!, it is maybe sad but this the way the world is today
50 years ago, growing up, we were taught the difference between right and wrong, about honesty and morals, do onto others, etc. It seems that was a whole different age and state of conscientious socially. My parents were far from perfect but they did instill in me certain values and a sense of social justice and responsibility. Beng a good citizen was never an option or up for discussion. It was just something you did because you were responsible member of our society and it was the right thing to do.
I find it amazing how things have changed so much in such a short period of time. I shudder to think what this country will be like in another 50 years given the dramatic change in our social fabric. The current direction of the collective moral compass and opinions I have read not only here on this thread but in other media as well cause me great concern. Personal and corporate greed seems to be the new doctrine. Stealing and dishonesty on so many levels can not be sustained.
Look at history and you will see over thousands of years societies have crumbled and vanished because of this very type of moral cancer. What kind of generation are we raising??? It's getting scary with the direction our future society is headed... IMHO... I fear it might even be too late to change... I truly hope I'm wrong...
We learned to think for ourselves instead of being influenced at 100% by our parents.
Stealing, dishonesty? The OP didn't steal at all. And dishonesty? Let me explain about that:
From my point of view, Apple made a mistake and the only way to make it realize it and correct such errors (which could bring economical loss to them) is to be strict to them and, if needed, to go to court. If, for example in court, it is decided that the OP keeps the 2 MBP's, Apple will do its best to avoid more mistakes like this one. If, however, they just get it back, they will probably move on and not worry so much about these things. It's the only way they'll learn, I guess.
Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but what's "right" or "wrong" is not defined, at all.
Any action can be rationalized--I know I do it all the time. My way of thinking is that Apple did me a big favor by sending a new laptop even before they found out what happened to the first one. I would certainly greatly appreciate that and just call them when the other one showed up to let them know I now have two. At that point, I would expect them to send the shipper to pick up the second one--I doubt I would drive to Orlando to bring it to a store. So it would just stay in the box I suppose until they sent someone to pick it up.
Yes, they did a huge favor. But it was way too soon, from my point of view. Their system is fast, no question, but not so reliable.
That's it exactly...!!!
we elect from whats available and there is not much available
How many people of 1000 if found a wallet with $5000. cash would call the owner and give back?, or just would take cash and walk away?
Alot of people wouldn't take a MacBook because it could be traced!, it is maybe sad but this the way the world is today
...and that my friend is the difference between people who have "cash register" honesty because they might get caught and people who have been raised with a moral value system. Even if no one else would ever find out, I would know... I wouldn't like living with that feeling at all. It's just not worth it... From that perspective, it's much easier just to do the "right thing" to begin with... You feel much better about yourself... IMHO...
Interesting topic
I am in the restaurant business, so I'll try to put this into perspective using my business.
If someone were to order take-out, and I gave them all they ordered plus an extra dinner, I don't think they'd call and say "Hey, you gave me an extra dinner I didn't pay for."
Even IF they did, I would just say "No problem, keep it!"
Those cheap Apple jerks should have said the same, rather than give him a ridiculous $25 gift card. That's insulting. $2000 for them is nothing.
I am in the restaurant business, so I'll try to put this into perspective using my business.
If someone were to order take-out, and I gave them all they ordered plus an extra dinner, I don't think they'd call and say "Hey, you gave me an extra dinner I didn't pay for."
Even IF they did, I would just say "No problem, keep it!"
Those cheap Apple jerks should have said the same, rather than give him a ridiculous $25 gift card. That's insulting. $2000 for them is nothing.
hmm... I wonder what would happen if you asked for a refund on one of the MBP and keep the other one...
btw what does OP mean/stand for.
btw what does OP mean/stand for.
That's the way it should be. Thinking for myself is great but the basics were taught to me by my parents.
and I never said he did "steal" anything...Well now THAT is a very different way of looking at this... It seems a little convoluted way of thinking but you certainly are entitled to your opinion. Personally, I would not want to waste my valuable time trying to "teach Apple a lesson by being strict with them and going to court if needed."
Like I said, total waste of my time. Much easier just to give them back the extra computer and move on with my life...
...and that my friend is why we all have a moral values system, taught to us by our parents, (hopefully) that defines and guides us as a human being and citizen of this world. I would like to believe that down deep, everyone really knows the difference between right and wrong. "The Golden Rule" serves as a basic moral compass for a lot of us. "Do onto others as you would have them do unto you." or from religions around the world since 3200 BC...
[FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]Commonsensism: A version of the golden rule put into modern, non-religious terms that some people live by is, "Treat people the way you'd like to be treated". [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]Buddhism: 560 BC, From the Udanavarga 5:18- "Hurt not others with that which pains yourself."[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]Judaism[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif] 1300 BC, from the Old Testament, Leviticus 19:18- "Thou shalt Love thy neighbor as thyself."[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]Hinduism[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif] 3200 BC, From the Hitopadesa- "One should always treat others as they themselves wish to be treated."[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]Zoroastrianism[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif] 600 BC, From the Shast-na-shayast 13:29- "Whatever is disagreeable to yourself, do not do unto others."[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]Confucianism[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif] 557 BC, From the Analects 15:23- "What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others."[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]Christianity[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif] 30 AD, From the King James Version , 7:12- "Whatsoever ye would that others should do to you, do ye even so to them."[/FONT]
I guess "when in doubt read the directions"... LOL... 'nuf said....
Um, no offense, but what, you lose 5/10 dollars worth of food (cause we aren't even going to count markup)?
Apple loses a lot more (and I don't think they get to put near as much markup on their products as restaurants do on food so they're losses are closer to the 2k price than your losses are to the price you charge).
You start selling 2000 dollar products and see if you still have the same mentality and then you can use yourself as a comparison.
On top of htat, once again, Apple didn't make the mistake here! UPS did. Apple did exceptional customer service to try to make up for UPS's messup by sending him another one rather than waiting for UPS to send it back to them and then sending him one (Which, I'll tell you I had a retailer tell me I had to wait til they got it back and it was a much lesser amount of money on the line, I think 30 dollars worth of books. They certainly weren't willing to take a chance and just send me a new set... prolly cause people like the people on ehre who advocate they'd just keep both).
That's the way it should be. Thinking for myself is great but the basics were taught to me by my parents.
Well now THAT is a very different way of looking at this... It seems a little convoluted way of thinking but you certainly are entitled to your opinion. Personally, I would not want to waste my valuable time trying to "teach Apple a lesson by being strict with them and going to court if needed."
Like I said, total waste of my time. Much easier just to give them back the extra computer and move on with my life...
...and that my friend is why we all have a moral values system, taught to us by our parents, (hopefully) that defines and guides us as a human being and citizen of this world. I would like to believe that down deep, everyone really knows the difference between right and wrong. "The Golden Rule" serves as a basic moral compass for a lot of us. "Do onto others as you would have them do unto you." or from religions around the world since 3200 BC...
[FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]Commonsensism: A version of the golden rule put into modern, non-religious terms that some people live by is, "Treat people the way you'd like to be treated". [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]Buddhism: 560 BC, From the Udanavarga 5:18- "Hurt not others with that which pains yourself."[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]Judaism[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif] 1300 BC, from the Old Testament, Leviticus 19:18- "Thou shalt Love thy neighbor as thyself."[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]Hinduism[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif] 3200 BC, From the Hitopadesa- "One should always treat others as they themselves wish to be treated."[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]Zoroastrianism[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif] 600 BC, From the Shast-na-shayast 13:29- "Whatever is disagreeable to yourself, do not do unto others."[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]Confucianism[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif] 557 BC, From the Analects 15:23- "What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others."[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]Christianity[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif]:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia,new times roman,times,serif] 30 AD, From the King James Version , 7:12- "Whatsoever ye would that others should do to you, do ye even so to them."[/FONT]
I guess "when in doubt read the directions"... LOL... 'nuf said....
Finnaly someone I can discuss normally with, without hearing "THIS IS RIGHT, THIS IS WRONG, WAHHHH"
Well, I certainly respect your opinion, and I see your point when you say it's easier to move on with your life instead of "teaching Apple a lesson", but we really just have different views of what weighs more: peace and moving on, or teaching a lesson.
Anyways, I do see things like "What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others". But that doesn't apply here. If I lost 2000$ by not paying enough attention, and find the person who has that money, I would let them keep it. Just to teach myself that you can't always have it the easy way.
But sir, I admire your maturity, and I also believe we should be raised with certain values by our parents, but there is a point in our lives when we need to question values we were taught.
Wow, I love discussing these things.