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Someone should write a business book called “How to get ahead in Business - lessons from Wall Street”.

Topics :

1] Try to lose money, or at least just break even. Never indicate how you plan to eventually make money without fundamentally breaking your business model.

2] Never announce specific numbers. Vague dreamy answers are best.

3] Crap out as many products as you can, in as many market segments. No focus is key. Dont forget rule 1, *dont* make money in these market segments

4] Do not have industry leading satisfaction rating scores. Junky products make users mad and post on forums requesting help. This is called “marketing”.

5] Always remember the one rule of design : More buttons, more bigger, is better,

6] Never control all aspects of your business. Instead have others create your software or design your hardware. That way you can always blame others.

7] Do not innovate or create new markets. Rest on past successes, even when they are way past their prime. Never disrupt yourself. Instead wait for others to do the work, then float for a few years in a deep slumber, then awake suddenly and pronounce your forthcoming market dominance purely based on past successes.

8] Plan all future releases by what the market wants. You’ll end up with industry leading innovations such as the faster horse, and have

9] Never save money. Instead buy companies that the author of this great book has already invested in. Diversify into low margin industries, acquire random stuff, have a zillion redundant products, do not focus on quality. These are the things business school taught the author, so it must be right, therefore even though you’ve proven us wrong for over a decade, we are going to party like its 1997.

10] It is still 1997 right?
 
Yeah and you seem to think you know a lot about innovation like 128GB instead of 4GB (utility hardly matters here, eh?), 8" instead of 7" even if it was after the fact. Also a phone with twice the size has twice big a display and higher resolution in many cases and that requires more battery - that doesn't seem to be in your book too.

It's hard to even consider respect if you claim to have problem with bs and then go on to advocate it.

I have no idea what you just said, i'll just assume you have no idea what you're talking about. 128GB vs 4GB is, let's just say, 32x more. http://www.anandtech.com/show/6679/a-month-with-apples-fusion-drive If you want to learn more before diving deeper into your bs.

8" instead of 7" even if it was after the fact is not really a sentence

A phone twice the display and higher resolution can require more power. My point which you fail to grasp is that when you have double the battery, you have more room to increase your battery life. It's like saying, well my tank is twice as big as yours but I'm driving a SUV so my tank should last just as long. No I can make my SUV more efficient, and even if it's not as efficient as yours, my reservoir is just bigger.
 
That's nonsense. If the absolute number were flat, rate of growth would be zero, not negative. However, profit isn't flat. Apple made more profit this quarter (13 weeks) than in the same quarter last year (14 weeks). Last year Apple explained over and over again why people needed to adjust the numbers for the quarter down because that quarter was one week longer. This year it's the opposite.

I see your point.

"Less growth that that which would justify the former stock price" may be more accurate.

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Lol, yeah....HEY?!?! :mad:

:)
 
And RIM never came anywhere close to selling 47 million phones nor $13 billion in profit in a single quarter.

There's never been a mobile phone company like Apple in history.

You are right about the numbers, but you cannot compare profit and sales numbers between companies over different periods.

RIM in 2002-2005 controlled the smartphone market and was in a position with a market share in business that Apple will never be able to reach. Not in business and not in the consumer space.

I'm quite a fan of Apple, but RIM in its best years had a more controlling position over the market than Apple currently has or had three quarters ago when we were in the 700 dollar space stock-wise.
 
It will hit the $400 mark next week.

Last week someone commented that when Tim took over as CEO Apple was at $360.
I replied that he might do it again.
I thought it would take a couple of years not a couple of months. :eek:

Latest news is that hedge funds are in a world of hurt.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2013/01/24/apples-stock-drop-might-bite-hedge-funds-badly/
http://www.businessinsider.com/hedge-funds-that-own-apple-2013-1
This could turn into an epic slaughter.
Investors with strong stomachs who do some bottom feeding here
might provide some support around the $360 level.
 
This is investing. The Law, for investing, is that you can't expect 50% growth forever, because as the numbers get larger it is impossible to keep up high growth levels. Some investors expected exponential growth in perpetuity from Apple. Not possible, and people shouldn't be this crazy because percentage growth slows. But it's the stock market, people are crazy.

It is adapted from the quote you listed for this industry.

Interesting. Do you have any cites or references for that? I'd love to read up on the Law of Large Numbers for Investing.
 
The iPad Mini is an innovation, the 8" tablet space has been dead and 7" was on the rise. the fact that Apple is bringing people back to 8" is leading.

What? That's like saying an Android device is innovating because they came out with a 5" or 6" screen. We all know that's not the case.
 
This is why you should never buy Apple stock if you didn't buy it in the 90s.

Apple profit last Q: $13.1 billion. AMZN's lifetime profit: $5 billion. AAPL down, AMZN up. Ridiculous.
 
I think the reason is that the display suppliers were not ready for it. Apple has this specific resolution constraint set by the OS. I think that the combination of that resolution and the size of the screen, is probably at the limit of what is currently possible in manufacturing terms. Current high resolution screens do not yet have the necessary resolution as the iPad mini would need, if Apple sticks to the resolution of the regular iPad.

It takes a certain amount of time for a manufacturer to be able to develop and produce such a screen at the necessary quantity.

So, I think in this case the demand for a small iPad was so huge (as was later demonstrated by huge sales) that Apple had to go for an in-between solution.

So, you're saying that Apple rushed a product? That it released something that wasn't up to its standards?

The iPad Mini and Maps show that Apple is losing their quality control, due to having to react to others instead of innovating and being first. That's not good. At all.
 
The need for innovation is an absolute necessity for a luxury electronics company.

Yes, innovation when there's need, but not innovation every year just for the sake of it. No one can regularly come up with more and more groundbreaking things all the time: look at Software like Adobe, the film industry, television content, etc… innovation isn't regular and predictable. Sometimes there's a great idea, and sometimes there isn't much for a while, it can't be any other way. People expect some new thing that was like the iPod, iPhone or iPad every year. Do we need yet another new kind of product? I think that it's often time to take the energy to refine existing products, like Apple did with the retina MBP, or the iPad mini. They're all brand new products, but people just say "meh" because the first part of their name is already familiar to them.

Sure, the iPad mini changes the way you use an iPad, and the Retina MBP changes the way you use a computer, but man it's boring because I wanted something I haven't seen before and that's nothing like anything I already own.

They'll come up with new stuff eventually, but that's not what determines whether Apple is a successful company or not, at least not in reality.
 
This was in the main news all day today. Main points were Apple did not meet expectations and did not grow, and it's sales did not meet expectations. But the main thing was lack on innovation, their is no new big thing and investors don't think Apple will be able to deliver one, so they sell the stock.

In fact it made so much more sensible sense then pretty much 95% of the posts in this thread do.

Written version:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21186991

I watched the report on the news programme.

Nice article. A couple of problems, though.

Apple shares have tumbled 10% as investors fret over whether the company could lose its dominance in the smartphone market.

What dominance? I thought Android phones were spanking the iPhone in market share? That's what I always hear anyway... Android is "winning"

With Apple no longer seen as the market leader in innovation, some analysts believe it may now have to rethink its core strategy, which is based on focusing on a handful of premium products.

Fine... Apple has lost its mojo.

So who else will deliver innovative game-changing products?

How many Samsung tablets have to come out before they are crowned the leader in innovation?

Galaxy Tab 7
Galaxy Tab 7 Plus
Galaxy Tab 7.7
Galaxy Tab 8.9
Galaxy Tab 10.1
Galaxy Tab 2 7
Galaxy Tab 2 10.1
Galaxy Note 8
Galaxy Note 10.1
Nexus 10

I'm just saying... everyone is so down on Apple for not creating new innovative products.

But it doesn't look like anyone else is either...
 
RIM in 2002-2005 controlled the smartphone market and was in a position with a market share in business that Apple will never be able to reach. Not in business and not in the consumer space.

Do you predict that Apple will reach RIM's current position on its way down? RIM currently has a 5% market share in smartphones.
 
What? That's like saying an Android device is innovating because they came out with a 5" or 6" screen. We all know that's not the case.

i see people argue all the time that android is now leading the innovation when we all know they just mean by increasing the screen an inch or two. it's certainly leading especially if they succeed?

Look I don't think the screen size itself is innovation, 8" tablets have been here before. IT's the fact that they got people to want it, to crave it, to make it a market segment that didn't exist before. that may not be innovation to you, but it's certainly leadership. apple could very well just have made a 7" tablet and a 5" phone and call it a day.
 
Do you predict that Apple will reach RIM's current position on its way down? RIM currently has a 5% market share in smartphones.

I'm not good at predicting. I bought a bit of additional Apple shares at 675 dollars..

And eehm. Apple is not on its way down. It's still growing.

But if you look at it from a macro perspective than Apple too should have a limited life-span, like most if not all companies. I would say that Apple is somewhere nearing the top of the growth curve, but with the global expansion and evolution of current products it still has a few years to go.
 
I also think Apple DEFINITELY needs another product. I know it seems unfair, but my company is going through the same thing. Basically, you have a large war chest and you have the brightest minds in the world. But in reality iPad and iPhone can only carry you so far. You need to both maximize your current products and come out with a new one to lean on.

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I'm not good at predicting. I bought a bit of additional Apple shares at 675 dollars..

And eehm. Apple is not on its way down. It's still growing.

But if you look at it from a macro perspective than Apple too should have a limited life-span, like most if not all companies. I would say that Apple is somewhere nearing the top of the growth curve, but with the global expansion and evolution of current products it still has a few years to go.

The sad reality is, if apple were to grow back to 700 levels, it would need to have grown over 40% of its stock price. what's going to lead this growth? This rampant selling and people heading for the exits isn't going to stop until Tim Cook actually does something instead of patronizing shareholders and insulting their patience.

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I also think the undertold story here are executives holding onto a bunch of options or the employees of the company itself. No company likes to see falling stock prices. I remember when Facebook came out and dropped to $18, all my friends freaked out because they thought they were going to be rich. Tim Cook needs to wake up and smell the coffee. And coming from an apple lover, this is what I've gathered from the tim cook era

- failure to deliver a new iOS people have been hankering for
- failure to deliver apple maps
- failure to find a stable retail chief
- failure to execute on the supply chain, his expertise
- failure to excite users by putting other executives in speeches, and then firing scott forstall so now one of the people that can actually excite people about apple products is no longer there. I'm not saying that he shoudln't have fired scott forstall, or Tim Cook needs to be like Steve Jobs, but nobody should have faith in Tim Cook's vision of the future when nobody knows what his vision or passion are.

even if i wasn't an apple stockholder, i'd be worried about the state of the company
 
You are right about the numbers, but you cannot compare profit and sales numbers between companies over different periods.

RIM in 2002-2005 controlled the smartphone market and was in a position with a market share in business that Apple will never be able to reach. Not in business and not in the consumer space.

I'm quite a fan of Apple, but RIM in its best years had a more controlling position over the market than Apple currently has or had three quarters ago when we were in the 700 dollar space stock-wise.

True... I was more speaking to the fact that Apple makes so much money and sells a record number of units that they must think they're doing OK today.

The stock market doesn't agree... but Tim Cook certainly congratulates Apple.

RIM used to be a force in the business market all those years ago. (although I think worldwide Nokia was the smartphone leader)

So who "controls" the business market now?
 
I also think Apple DEFINITELY needs another product. I know it seems unfair, but my company is going through the same thing. Basically, you have a large war chest and you have the brightest minds in the world. But in reality iPad and iPhone can only carry you so far. You need to both maximize your current products and come out with a new one to lean on.

----------



The sad reality is, if apple were to grow back to 700 levels, it would need to have grown over 40% of its stock price. what's going to lead this growth? This rampant selling and people heading for the exits isn't going to stop until Tim Cook actually does something instead of patronizing shareholders and insulting their patience.

Agree on all points. What Apple did with a number of products such as the iPhone, iPad and the MBA was that they jumped so far ahead of the rest that it was difficult for the competition to catch up.

By the time they caught up with the iPhone, the iPad came, and then the game started again. It's called jumping the s-curve or growth curve and basically means that you shouldn't wait until your product dies before you start developing a new one. You should launch a new product when your previous product is just starting to slowly decrease in growth. Apple needs a new disruptive product that will be difficult for competitors to beat.
 
True... I was more speaking to the fact that Apple makes so much money and sells a record number of units that they must think they're doing OK today.

The stock market doesn't agree... but Tim Cook certainly congratulates Apple.

RIM used to be a force in the business market all those years ago. (although I think worldwide Nokia was the smartphone leader)

So who "controls" the business market now?

RIM's problem is that they refused to cater to the consumer market. They refused to adapt. I'd like to think Apple is still leading the consumer market and if I've learned anything in the past three years is that the consumer market is the place to be for technology. A firm can not upgrade your blackberry for years, but a consumer will upgrade their phone at least once every two years.
 
True... I was more speaking to the fact that Apple makes so much money and sells a record number of units that they must think they're doing OK today.

The stock market doesn't agree... but Tim Cook certainly congratulates Apple.

RIM used to be a force in the business market all those years ago. (although I think worldwide Nokia was the smartphone leader)

So who "controls" the business market now?

Blackberry still does I guess. But even my conservative cost conscious company informed me this week that we will transition to Windows Phone. The risk of RIM getting into trouble is too high. In addition everyone was complaining about the Blackberries.
 
This is the best article I have read yet that I think logically explains this mess.

What's Wrong With Apple? It's Not What You Think - CNBC

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100405309

So perhaps the bigger problem is that Apple failed to get ahead of this story. Think about it:

Apple knew in the summer, before the most dramatic part of the stock's upward climb, that the story was going to get tricky at the end of the year with a massive multiproduct rollout. Apple could have signaled then, while investors were still feeling good about the stock, that this would be a different kind of year as the company prepared for the future.

It seems that perhaps Apple realizes that in the absence of information, chaos takes over – and now that it's the most valuable company in the world, investor chaos can be awfully distracting.

The new revenue and gross margin guidance, if Apple keeps it honest, should really help stabilize things. No longer should we have a range of iPhone estimates, like we did for the holiday quarter, between 43 million and 63 million units. No longer should supply chain rumors have the same kind of impact on the stock. Apple will have to be creative about not giving away product launches in guidance – but there are ways to do that.

Take a look at Facebook. There's another stock that got crushed on the uncertainty surrounding its IPO. But as it began to report numbers and tell its story, things have brightened a bit.
 
Apple is becoming Microsoft - or at least that's the fear. They sell a ton of their cash cow products and make good money - but that's just resting on their laurels. Where the hell is any innovation and disruption? People respect Apple for exactly that. Making profits on cash cows - that spot is for Microsoft.

The thing is they will sell some more iPads and iPhones but then when that's saturated they will badly need disruptive new product or at least leaps and bounds improvements to existing ones. And there are no winds of that for past couple years and counting.

The innovation is why their profit margins are lower. The new products are more expensive to produce, but to stay ahead of the game long term, they produce better versions of their products at the expense of slightly diminished profit margins short term.
 
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