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Apple's high profits are short term, yet to see if that is sustained. hardly any market in enterprise, server areas, losing some in the media creation field as well. Those keep long term profits going. Apple could one day be looked at as a fad unless they get long term, Wii type casual buyers are not long terms. Zune is on Windows phone 7, a good move there by MS unlike skype LOL.

I dunno... Apple seems to be making the right choices... both in the short term and long term.

5 years ago Apple didn't have the iPhone and iPad. Today they are their biggest moneymakers. Who saw that coming? Apple did. They've been working on this stuff for years. Apple has re-invented itself... again.

Imagine what they'll have 5 years from now. I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing to ensure their stability. Apple has people a lot smarter than me looking into the matter.

Macs will never exceed 10% market share. That's not a problem.

Macs are still a profitable business... even if they are a tiny percentage of the PC market.

Hell... look at HP. They are the largest PC OEM in the world... and even they were questioning whether to be in the PC business at all.

HP is a high volume, low margin PC maker... while Apple is the complete opposite and only sells $1000+ machines. And look at all the companies trying to emulate the MacBook Air.

The iPhone will also never beat Android in market share. Again... not a problem. Android market share is made up of a bunch of separate companies who will never appear on the same balance sheet.

HTC, LG and Motorola only wish they were as successful as Apple is in the phone market. HTC has had a few profitable quarters recently.... but they have slashed their Q4 outlook twice in recent weeks. LG and Motorola have both posted losses the past few quarters. Samsung is the only Android OEM that is even remotely close to Apple in sales and profitability.

But even though Samsung and the entire Android consortium sells more phones than Apple... and all the PC makers sell more computers than Apple... Apple is in no danger in the short term or long term.

You got to do it for the long haul, not a short term wonder. Yet to be seen if they can. I dont feel they are on the correct path to doing so, many others share this, many do not.

If you think Apple is going down the wrong path.... what do you think of those other companies? :D
 
I would like 4" but only if the phone doesn't get bigger! Like someone else said, the question should have been 3,5", 4" (same size) or 4" (even jf this meens a bigger phone.
 
I dunno... Apple seems to be making the right choices... both in the short term and long term.

5 years ago Apple didn't have the iPhone and iPad. Today they are their biggest moneymakers. Who saw that coming? Apple did. They've been working on this stuff for years. Apple has re-invented itself... again.

Imagine what they'll have 5 years from now. I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing to ensure their stability. Apple has people a lot smarter than me looking into the matter.

Macs will never exceed 10% market share. That's not a problem.

Macs are still a profitable business... even if they are a tiny percentage of the PC market.

Hell... look at HP. They are the largest PC OEM in the world... and even they were questioning whether to be in the PC business at all.

HP is a high volume, low margin PC maker... while Apple is the complete opposite and only sells $1000+ machines. And look at all the companies trying to emulate the MacBook Air.

The iPhone will also never beat Android in market share. Again... not a problem. Android market share is made up of a bunch of separate companies who will never appear on the same balance sheet.

HTC, LG and Motorola only wish they were as successful as Apple is in the phone market. HTC has had a few profitable quarters recently.... but they have slashed their Q4 outlook twice in recent weeks. LG and Motorola have both posted losses the past few quarters. Samsung is the only Android OEM that is even remotely close to Apple in sales and profitability.

But even though Samsung and the entire Android consortium sells more phones than Apple... and all the PC makers sell more computers than Apple... Apple is in no danger in the short term or long term.

Very good points and obviously I can not disagree. I feel it is a possibility though that the hype train may run dry. I will say they make very good products, if they keep that up then they will be fine. If QC goes to poop then not so much. My main point is, it would be good for the to have a foot in enterprise, regain the media market they somewhat lost. FCPx, soon to be Logic. You need that long term customer.

HP's CEO went brain dead for some reason, they do have an issue where they make too many PC's and it gets crowded in the line.


If you think Apple is going down the wrong path.... what do you think of those other companies? :D

I am not sure what path, its a ? path. Dell is doing fine and has strong footing. Asus doing decent. Sony...always seems to have money somehow. Not sure how though haha. HP, I don't know to be honest. Companies will catch the iPad, although it has not happened yet. iPhone is getting caught. I just think history will repeat itself. Its a guess, might be wrong, might be right.

They do make money off things NO one else would. Apple is defying logic at the moment.
 
The current size is very fine. They can keep it. I welcome the increase of screen size but please just don't make the phone wider.

Time really flies and I still recall that back in 2007, the iPhone's screen was gigantic comparing with most of the "smartphones" on the market.
 
Phones with 4" screens are huge! Difficult to fit in your pocket! They do look cool but aren't practical unless you don't carry them in your pocket.

Don't worry! According to our channel sources, Apple is going to be manufacturing a stylish new line of "Smart Pants" with larger than normal pockets.
 
The way I see it iphone 4S/iphone 5 will not be as "cheap" as Android and people will continue to buy Android especially if Android is "good enough".
Do you hear yourself man? Stop and listen. So basically if Android continues to do what they are doing Apple is screwed. What is Apple's game plan to win back Android customers? A 3.5 inch display in the iphone 5 will be a disaster. Those big fat cheap Android phones are winning and I have one of them.
I find this funny.
Do you believe that Apple cares that people buy other phones?
Do you think that Apple wants to sell iPhones for low margins?
IF apple truly did own the phone market and sold everyone iPhones then that would be called a Monopoly and the US government or the EU would break them up in to smaller pieces and effectively destroy the company and culture.
Android is not going to kill iOS, not in the next two years, probably not in the next 5, Apple will inevitably have a fall from grace again at some point, but all tech companies do and if they are lucky they will stay around and may one day come back again. Apple, Microsoft, Yahoo!, Sun, IBM, Nokia, Sony - all of these companies were at one point top in their field of tech. Some have been bought, some are just shadows of their former selves.

Apple wants to sell goods where it can maximise it's profit, it has an image of great product design and it sells to customers who will pay a premium. If you wont pay a premium, Apple doesn't care about you, you are not Apples Market. The customers who buy iPhones also tend to pay for other services and applications on top of the device, the target market is a market that developers also like to tap because of this, for this reason iOS will thrive because it has support of the developers.
 
Ah . . . very good point.

There are basic usability principles to consider.

----------



Comfortable one-handed navigation. That Home button area is also a nice resting-place for your thumb.

It isn't just about fitting more into less space (something that's not necessarily desirable to begin with), but also about basic ergonomics.

Well, Siri mitigates a lot of that concern..
 
Very good points and obviously I can not disagree. I feel it is a possibility though that the hype train may run dry. I will say they make very good products, if they keep that up then they will be fine. If QC goes to poop then not so much. My main point is, it would be good for the to have a foot in enterprise, regain the media market they somewhat lost. FCPx, soon to be Logic. You need that long term customer.

HP's CEO went brain dead for some reason, they do have an issue where they make too many PC's and it gets crowded in the line.

I am not sure what path, its a ? path. Dell is doing fine and has strong footing. Asus doing decent. Sony...always seems to have money somehow. Not sure how though haha. HP, I don't know to be honest. Companies will catch the iPad, although it has not happened yet. iPhone is getting caught. I just think history will repeat itself. Its a guess, might be wrong, might be right.

They do make money off things NO one else would. Apple is defying logic at the moment.

Geez.... is Apple's success still based on hype? I thought they've proven themselves by now. :p

Apple is a consumer company... I don't think they will ever be an enterprise company. They practically invented the personal computer over 30 years ago. And now they're very comfortable in the personal electronics market as well.

Apple's already cancelled their server products... which were too pricey for enterprise anyway. And they won't even entertain the idea of making cheap, commodity machines to be deployed in offices. HP and Dell have those locked up. That's a business that Apple has no desire to be in anyway.

As for the pro market... it's sad that Apple seems to be leaving that behind.

But who knows the profit margin on a $5000 Mac Pro. Those Xeon chips ain't cheap.

Apple probably makes more money selling many MacBook Airs than they do selling a few Mac Pros. They are shifting their focus to consumer machines. Either way... they are still making money on computers. I don't think the Mac division has posted a loss since 1997.

As for the iPhone getting caught... what does that really mean? Android vastly outsells the iPhone... and that certainly pleases Google and their advertising business. But a few of those hardware companies can't turn a profit.

And I'm not talking about a cushion of profit... I mean NO profit at all.

Let's not forget that Apple makes more profit than the rest of the industry combined... while some of those companies are posting losses quarter after quarter.

Of course... Samsung, Motorola, HTC and LG will always be around. And so will Apple.

The point is... the iPhone is a $4 Billion business for Apple. That won't erode overnight, after a few quarters, or even a few years. I don't think, in my lifetime, that I will ever see Apple lose money on the iPhone.
 
Rumors said we were getting a iP5 with a 4" screen this year.

I said then and I will say it now. Not happening.

Apple uses a fatter aspect ratio than other phones and 4" 3:2 would be too fat ergonomically for Apple, a company that pays a lot of attention to these things.

Siri is much much more ergonomic! When you're on the move: siri. When you're standing still, two fingers manipulation isn't so bad.. And you have a bigger screen in the process
 
I find this funny.
Do you believe that Apple cares that people buy other phones?
Do you think that Apple wants to sell iPhones for low margins?
IF apple truly did own the phone market and sold everyone iPhones then that would be called a Monopoly and the US government or the EU would break them up in to smaller pieces and effectively destroy the company and culture.
Android is not going to kill iOS, not in the next two years, probably not in the next 5, Apple will inevitably have a fall from grace again at some point, but all tech companies do and if they are lucky they will stay around and may one day come back again. Apple, Microsoft, Yahoo!, Sun, IBM, Nokia, Sony - all of these companies were at one point top in their field of tech. Some have been bought, some are just shadows of their former selves.

Apple wants to sell goods where it can maximise it's profit, it has an image of great product design and it sells to customers who will pay a premium. If you wont pay a premium, Apple doesn't care about you, you are not Apples Market. The customers who buy iPhones also tend to pay for other services and applications on top of the device, the target market is a market that developers also like to tap because of this, for this reason iOS will thrive because it has support of the developers.

Yeah, Apple is about paying a premium while the others are not? How about Galaxy phones that are more expensive than the iPhone unlocked? How about the Ultrabooks that are more expensive than the MacBook Air? Apple charges a lot of tax on "Pro" stuffs but for the newer consumer gadgets they are not that expensive. Do you remember pre-announcement estimate of >$1,000 iPad ("a magical...device at an unbelievable price" as per Steve Jobs)? Even the current gen "top" Android Tablets are not that cheaper than the iPad with similar specs.

There are a lot of deeply rooted misconceptions about Apple products...
 
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As the newly minted iFans have said, it's not about the specs. It's about the experience. In this case, the prospective buyer (Joe Public) has no clue what the experience should be, or could be, so that goes out the window.

Anything Apple is good enough for your average fast food eating, TV watching, consumer. Therefore as long as iPhones are perceived as "cool" nothing else matters. They're not going to use half the features anyway. They're totally clueless, easily amused, "look ma, its talking" (Siri) and technically unaware.

Any deficits are easily hidden by the masterful smoke & mirrors routine that's as old as time. It's snake oil sales, circa 2011.
 
keep the size of the phone the same, keep the resolution and aspect ratio the same. just push the screen to the edges of the device and shrink the buffer zone of black/white on top & bottom.

try to make it a little thinner and make 5 columns of apps the standard on the home screen.
 
As the newly minted iFans have said, it's not about the specs. It's about the experience. In this case, the prospective buyer (Joe Public) has no clue what the experience should be, or could be, so that goes out the window.

Anything Apple is good enough for your average fast food eating, TV watching, consumer. Therefore as long as iPhones are perceived as "cool" nothing else matters. They're not going to use half the features anyway. They're totally clueless, easily amused, "look ma, its talking" (Siri) and technically unaware.

Any deficits are easily hidden by the masterful smoke & mirrors routine that's as old as time. It's snake oil sales, circa 2011.
This is not about the specs, but the performance of the iPhone 4S is still one of the best among all smartphones.

c.f. Anandtech's Google Nexus Prime benchmarks.
 
To all the people saying they want a 4" screen but the same size iphone:

It is physically impossible!

The current iPhone has a 3.5" screen that is almost edge to edge. A 4" 3:2 screen is wider than the iPhone 4 itself.

I agree & find it incredible that the vast majority in this thread are brain washed into repeating the mantra ... "it's ok as long as the size of the phone doesn't change"
 
Macs will never exceed 10% market share. That's not a problem.

Macs are still a profitable business... even if they are a tiny percentage of the PC market.

The first sentence is most likely wrong. Apple has already about 5.2% of unit sales world wide, and about 12.5% of total revenue world wide. So if we count revenue, you are already wrong today. If we count unit sales, then the "netbook" part of the market is dying off (Samsung is already rumored to be leaving the netbook market in 2012), and that is a part where Apple has zero market share, so that alone will make Apple's market share go up. I can easily see Apple having 10% world wide market share in unit sales in three or four years time.


As for the pro market... it's sad that Apple seems to be leaving that behind.

Just saying: There is one part of the "Professional" market that Apple cannot ever "leave behind", and that is software developers. That also happens to be a group that is not particularly interested in servers.


I for one have never understood the current "bigger is better" movement. That is not to say that bigger is automatically worse either, just that the vocal demand for bigger screens seems somewhat blown out of proportions. (No pun intended).


It's simple really: No single size pleases everyone best. Since the iPhone is the best phone in the market, a good strategy for every competitor is to have a phone that is bigger or smaller than the iPhone, to catch those people who think or who can be convinced that the iPhone is too small or too big. Now having one phone that is bigger and one that is smaller sends out a strange marketing message (if "bigger is better" why would you sell a smaller phone as well), so they make bigger phones.

And if you have X people who think the iPhone size is just fine, and Y who think it should be a different size, and Z who just come trolling on MacRumors, few of the X people will be posting, some of the Y, and a lot of the Z.


Thats a healthy thing Apple could have done selective licensing, for enterprise but is chasing casuals, fickle consumers who turn quickly.

Seems you missed that Apple's sales and market share in the computer market have been going up quarter after quarter, year after year, for the last ten years. Microsoft still thinks it is due to marketing. The reality is that Apple has for the last ten years been building a brand that is based on producing quality products at a decent price and putting customers first. The reason why people buy Apple products have nothing to do with fashion; it is the knowledge that you are more likely to get a product that works, much more likely to get a product that you can actually figure out how to use, and much much more likely to get sorted out if you actually have a problem.

Fickle consumers only turn in the PC market, where the consumer cannot see any difference between a Dell, HP, Acer, Toshiba or whatever laptop and buys the one that is ten dollars cheaper, or the one from the company that pays better spiffs to the salesperson. (One dishonest salesman turning the monitors on all but one brand to a non-native resolution can _really_ change sales numbers).


The Gap, Urban Outfitters, these are all nerd traps, made to look cool for uncool people. For people who are not particular on how they look, just run of the mill.
Levi's is an American staple that has been around for 100 plus years, I get that. Doesn't make them cool.

Well, one day you will grow up and wear what you like instead of worrying about being "cool".
 
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The Android phones are 16:9 aspect ratio (the same as a widescreen TV). The iPhone is a 3:2 ratio (wider than a standard 4:3 TV but not as wide as a newer 16:9 TV). So a 4" screen on an iPhone will seem bigger (taller in landscape mode or wider in portrait mode) than a 4" Android phone.

4" is probably the perfect size for the iPhone. It really won't seem much smaller at all than the larger 4.3 to 4.5" Android phones because of its different aspect ratio.

Here's an interesting thing. If you keep the existing screen width and pixel count at 640px, and just stretch it in the long dimension to make a 16:9 ratio, the screen is 4" diagonal. Legacy apps can run without any alteration and keep their exact onscreen size. Modern apps can take advantage of the extra screen area.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
 
Better resolution on the 4 inch screen yes. And i cant stand these developers crying about extra work. Developers on pc platform have been developing for different resolutions and x amount of configurations for years! And these iOS developers are crying if a resolution change comes once every 2 years gimme a break :rolleyes:

Because developing on a windowed environment is so very similar to developing on a modal application environment. :rolleyes: Not a developer, are you?

i love my iPhone 4, and it's fine the way it is. it's time for a change though. Apple won't be using a 3.5" screen forever...

Says who?

in this thread I have learned that a .5" increase to the screen somehow turns it into a tablet/TV

also what kind of pants do you wear that you can't fit, lets say a Galaxy S in your pocket

Interestingly, in this thread I have learned that a .5" increase turns your phone from a unusable postage stamp into a breathtaking multimedia device.

I still don't understand why Apple just don't make 2 phones - One that retains the 3.5" screen and one that is biigest than 4" (like 4.3") so that the difference is more apparant. We can all argue for the next year which is better, but the fact is that some people prefer 3.5" and some want a lot larger phone like the current crop of Androids to accomodate bigger hands, video watching, older eyes, etc.

Neither group is right or wrong. There are clearly two markets here. Why does it have to be one or the other?

So, you're new to Apple, are you?

4"? Better, but not amazing. I want 4.6" or 5.2" And yes, I realize they'd probably have to make 2 models

Better start looking at Android now.

Amazing how Apple's vision of the Post PC world looks. Let's see, I can buy a Mac with a 11" display, or a 13", 15" 17", 21.5, 27" (or if I buy a Mac Pro or a Mac mini any size monitor I want).

The POST-PC era (Apple's version) has 3.5" and 9.7" devices, and fanboys are screaming "You don't need anything else"..... Fragmentation, Fragmentation!!!

Yup, because a multi-windowed OS is so similar to a mobile phone OS.

Its definitely time for a bigger screen. 4" or better is 2011+. Apple has to realized that it is not 2007 anymore. We practically use our phones are everything now, especially for entertainment purposes. Netflix on a 3.5" isn't an enjoyable experiences, whatsoever.

But Netflix on 4" is Mana, direct from the heavens. I get it now.

I know that, but the form factor still changes. If Apple releases the next iPhone with a "traditional" home button, they are far behind the curve as the Galaxy Nexus is doing away with the actual physical "home" buttons. Apple needs to make it a gesture based area to rectify their terrible multitasking.

Virtual buttons / capacitive buttons are usability nightmares. It won't happen as long as anyone with a clue is in charge at Apple.

look at the picture on the front page, that .5 added to the 3.5 isnt much of a BIG difference, i dont know if people are blind on this site but 4inchs is the sweet spot and isnt all that BIG like i said before.:apple:

update: some clown gave me a -1 cause you know im putting out facts.

Remember kids:
0.5" difference in size of phone = no big deal
0.5" difference in screen size = LIFE CHANGING AWESOMENESS!!!111!!

Maybe 3.5" is better for one handed use, but how often do we do that? Dialing a number? Scrolling through a list?

Ever commute?

The screen size doesn't hamper one handed use, the girth of your device can.

Nope. The screen size directly effects how much of your screen you can actually reach one-handed.

The Galaxy S shows that a larger screen doesnt really need a bigger body in order to accommodate a 4 inch screen. So iphone 5 can technically be the same size as the 4 and still add in the 4 inch screen without problems.

Except that the Galaxy S is 16:9, and the iPhone 3:2, so any comparisons like are less than useless.

You could still make the phone with the same size overall by making it shorter but wideer.

So, by making it a different size, you can make it the same size. Or do you really think that surface area is the thing that people are talking about? So a 1" x 10.4" iPhone would be the "same size overall", because it has the same area? :eek:

Considering that we've had 5 iPhone models... 10 if you count iPod touches, with a 3.5" screen, and in that time every one else has moved to 4" as the golden standard

Everyone else, except for the #1, #2, and #3 best selling phones. But other than those, yeah.

Now on that note, I do think Apple errors by only ever having 1 model of iPhone. (You can't count previous generations they'll still sell.) They're the only phone maker that does this. I think they limit market share in this way. Could they offer a 5" display and a 4" and a 3.5"? Sure! They'll cite fragmentation and developer strain, which is slightly true. I still think Apple would have a win with a slider iPhone model with a physical keyboard. There are millions upon millions of people who won't buy phones without one, and that take the iPhone right off the table in their consideration.

But what I think about that doesn't matter, because Apple will never do it.

God knows, Apple is having a tough time in the phone industry. The best selling handsets, and all of the profit. Man, if only they'd wake up!

Which is your opinion. If you look at that poll, and the large number of respondents (and this isn't the first poll of it's kind), it's largely in the 70 percentile that people want a bigger screen. It's also become the golden standard, and neither of those things can be ignored by even Apple.

If only the real world was anything like the one the geeks imagine it to be, this poll would have even a little bit of relevance.

i prey to god that itll have an 4 screen. Apple cant pull a "4s" twice otherwise they'll be laughed at. and who says itll be much bigger. The iphone needs a new design anyway. Its getting boring. hope the refresh will be during the summer as many 4 users will be able to upgrade around that time

Laughed at, indeed. It would be terribly embarrassing for Apple to have record-setting sales of yet another iPhone launch. Oh, the humanity!!
 
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As the newly minted iFans have said, it's not about the specs. It's about the experience. In this case, the prospective buyer (Joe Public) has no clue what the experience should be, or could be, so that goes out the window.

Anything Apple is good enough for your average fast food eating, TV watching, consumer. Therefore as long as iPhones are perceived as "cool" nothing else matters. They're not going to use half the features anyway. They're totally clueless, easily amused, "look ma, its talking" (Siri) and technically unaware.

Any deficits are easily hidden by the masterful smoke & mirrors routine that's as old as time. It's snake oil sales, circa 2011.

This is where the smoke and mirror handset's reside:
Somewhere in these 120 odd Android handsets are some good devices. Good Luck finding one
 
larger screen doesn't automatically make it better people.

no, and I'm sure apple know what is good for us. But sometimes you can't entirely ignore the momentum of the marketplace. Faced with larger and larger screened android/WP7 devices, Apple risk being seen as not responding to change and being left behind.

Even an increase to 4" would be only a small step, with many phones these days being 4.3" and upwards. Perhaps a small compromise by Apple might be worthwhile/necessary?
 
Well, one day you will grow up and wear what you like instead of worrying about being "cool".

Another hurt person. Looking at your avatar style is not your thing. Stop shopping with your parents.
 
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