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Where is this segment of the population that needs a computer lighter than 3 pounds? Is this really an issue with the MBA? I have a feeling that the main issue with the MBA is price. It's a gutted-down MacBook that costs almost as much as a MacBook Pro. I honestly can't believe anybody has purchased one considering the only two pros are the size and weight.
 
Though I love my macbook air as such, this could be a very good move if,

1. The cost does not go up
2. The look does not get compromised due to juxtaposing metal and carbon

— if both are true, I would be thrilled to have an ultra-lightweight, super sturdy notebook that does not feel 'cold' on the palm rests! :D
 
This carbon fiber substance is known as composite material in the military (most military aircraft are made from it) and it's great stuff until it breaks (tears/shatters/rips). At this point it's toxic, you think asbestos is bad for your lungs, this stuff in comparison would make breathing asbestos seem healthy.

I've been around when this stuff breaks and they call in a fully geared hazmat team to deal with it.

I know some high end bicycles use this material as well and I'd tell them the same thing, be very careful around it if it ever becomes damaged.

In conclusion, just say "NO" to composite material in notebooks!...

what? lol

i have dealt with carbon fiber alot and yea, a haz mat suit it a component breaks? give me a break

with that said, i have machined carbon fiber and the dust it generates is really fine and will itch the heck out of you if it gets on the skin for a day or so

but as far as a carbon spar breaking and needing a hazmat team to deal with it, thats not true. all it does is snap and guess what, the carbon fiber failed but it is still in the resin

also, you can handle carbon fiber without any thing protective at all. how do you think people lay it up and such? all carbon fiber comes in is in sleeves, rolls, or sheets. in fact i have some in my room right now. such a cool material

or maybe you are right and im gonna have cancer from it in a couple years :rolleyes:
 
Is C fiber stronger than Al?

stronger is a meaningless word

i mean in what context? tensile?, shear?, ductility?, thermal?

and then carbon fiber in what configuration? meshed? unidirectional, how many layers, resin composition, etc

same with aluminum and all of its various grades

with that said, cf performs very well in tensile tests when compared to aluminum

also, cf tends to shadow radio signals which is bad in some applications
 
This thread sounds exactly like many of the threads at the various cycling forums I visit. Take out the word MacBook Air and insert the word "Trek" or "Cannondale" or "Specialized" and they would be exactly the same! At the bike forums, you know what they call folks who obsess about weight?......Weight Weenies! Are you a "Weight Weenie?'
 
All I got to say is that it is going to match my Ducati monster 2004 620ccwith carbon fiber accessories for belt covers and front sprocket cover ;-) Weight is the enemy LOL
 
Dreams of the MBA of 2010...

Batteries that last 8x longer than today's Li-Ion or even fuel cells that go bendy with the contour of the laptop.

Weighs well under 3-lbs despite improved graphics and processors. If Apple can deliver a MBA that performs like the 2.33 (2007) MBP by 2010 then I'm set.
 
Carbon fibre would be great. Besides, it would be good to start moving past the metal look behind us. Its been almost eight years now. The only look Apple kept longer was beige plastic.
Wait, you want Apple to get rid of its aluminum notebooks because they've used them for eight years, and regardless of the fact that they've remained with aluminum for so long because it's effective? And I thought Apple was the ones who were obsessed with form over function...
 
IBut unlike a laptop your 12-13 inch iPod Touch (PDA, seeing as it's actually capable of connecting stuff) will have nothing to protect that screen. A laptop folds down, thereby protecting the screen.
Further, without bringing the extra keyboard, how will you type on the thing without looking at it?

Intelligent spelling checker. The spelling checker would know that the position of the hands on the keyboard would move slightly, and it would now that the relative position of your hands to each other would change. The keyboard would follow your hand movements.
 
I hope they make it look and feel like aluminum somehow. I like how Apple's current laptops feel like one metal piece in your hand. Having two different materials on each side will be 'texturally confusing".
 
Engineering, design, innovation.

While the MBA had a "neat" looking motherboard, it overheated, resulting in core shutdowns. They had to make a hinge from plastic in order to be able to fit the usb-port. The MBAs have had numerous problems with screens and whatnots (no, it's not all down to poor engineering), and until recently, it was a pain in the butt swapping the HDD, because the engineering wasn't up to scratch, to name a few. You won't get a full list, but do a little searching, and you will see plenty of problems with those computers.
The TiBook was the introduction of this sort of thing (to me): Using 99.9999 percent pure "commercial grade" (at least at that time it was "commercial grade") titanium was idiotic. They apparently thought "Ti is stronger than steel per weight, thus it must be at least as rigid". Unfortunately, they decided that a flimsy frame (although made from carbon fibre) would make up for this, but it didn't. Not even close. And when you add the hinges, and the flexing of the screen, not to mention that you could damage the innards without it showing on the outside (pure Ti is rather flexible, but has a fairly good shape memory), you have an engineering disaster which was only added to by Apple painting (yes!) the titanium making it pit, and priming and painting the carbon frame.

Also, there's the tingle sensations people talk about. There are ways around this. But alas, we're talking apple here.


Then, of course, there was the problems with the keyboard touching the screen, top casing with poor fit and - of course - lest we forget: Warping all over the place with numerous models. No, it's not all down to "assembly" - a good industrial engineer should take assembly into consideration when doing his work.

I'll leave you to do further research for yourself. There's quite the difference between engineering something and merely designing it.

Let's get one thing straight here. Apple is not an engineering company. It is a Design+Innovation company. For the record, my wife has an old Ti book, and having lived a pretty rough life, that thing is still kicking. Remember what laptops looked like before the Ti came along? Some engineering companies still think laptops should be big boring black plastic coffee tables. Where are all those hotshot engineers who claimed (backing up their blathering with supposedly 18+ years in the electronics industry) that machining a laptop out of a solid block of Alu. was impossible? "I'm not an engineer" but that must be the first class in engineering school; "You can't do that 101". You're right, there is quite a difference between engineering something and "merely" designing it. The engineering realm of thought revolves around what is; the known, what has been done before. However, the design process peers beyond what has been done; it aims to achieve the impossible and change the way people think about products. Apple's magic comes from not just design, but also innovation, which is taking what is known to have been done before and rather than using these facts as an excuse to not change, using them as a springboard into the future. So, is the engineering perfect? probably not, it couldn't be. Apple doesn't engineer designs, they design engineering. They innovate. With innovation comes quirks that might have to be tweaked or possibly rehashed altogether. But at least they try, and either one appreciates that or they don't. An engineering job at Apple must be one of the toughest jobs on the planet, and notice, it takes an army of engineers to keep up with the handfull of designers there. Innovation is hard work, but someone's gotta do it.
 
carbon fibre is widely used in super cars cooling units to suck in cold air, of course its thermal conductivity is way more superior than aluminium. better do some research mate


the thermal properties of carbon fibre are variable depending on the type of material. here's one example "mate" .

Z L Wang et al 2007 J. Phys. D: Appl. Phys. 40 4686-4690
The measurements on an individual polyacrylonitrile-based carbon fibre 7 µm in diameter were performed using both the closed solution and the series solution, which yielded the thermal conductivity of 84.4 W m−1 K−1

vs aluminum 255W/mK

and they could use a piece of wood to funnel cold air into supercars - so what?

i'm happy to admit different fibres have very different thermal properties - but to say it is "way more superior than" when in some cases it is clearly and demonstrably "far inferior to" - is just plain ignorant.

further - weight savings (which is the key justification for this rumor) would be miniscule - again i say bollocks to this rumor.
 
I would readily buy a combo of a Lenovo laptop and Mac OS X. That would be the best of both worlds.

Funny...
didn't the original Powerbook and most of family come out of a tech shareing agreement between IBM(ie Lenovo) and Apple.

I thought apple was trying to migrate away from Carbon to Cocoa??? Isn't this a huge step BACKWARDS!?!

//sarcasm

Maybe they'll use cocoa fibre instead.

mmm.... chocolate


Still if they are going for fibre wouldn't they do both the top and bottom leave the colour natural then anodize the Unibody to match.
 
Chit-chat aside, the long term solution is a clamshell device 1.5 times the width of an iPhone (it's too small) and displays on both faces so when in "laptop mode" the keyboard and trackball on pad is below and the display is above. When in display mode the image spans the entire flexible surface comprising the clamshell faces and pop-up tools are always available.

:)

Rocketman

I assume by now EVERYONE has seen the bad clone of iPhone, Blackberry device, advertised with Verizon services. These morons still think this is a discreet feature issue not a closed and systematic system issue. Hi Steve . . . :D
 
Wise Choice

Given the demographic of MacBook Air users this is a wise, marketing-inspired, product development alignment by Apple management. I realized some are questioning the "green" aspects of carbon fiber; certainly this is a concern and potential public relations issue for Apple Inc. This issue needs more study.

I would suspect many users in this demographic already have exposure to and acceptance of carbon fiber. As examples, cyclists ride expensive carbon fiber road and mountain bikes, tennis rackets contain carbon fiber, cars, boats, even mopeds too. The lists go on. Certainly a familiarity with carbon fiber does not justify its use if it's toxicity to self and environment is considerable. Surely, this is a feature on which we'll hear.
 
Let's get one thing straight here. Apple is not an engineering company. It is a Design+Innovation company.
LOL, an "Innovation company"! Please!
Anyway, yes, they design their computers. But are you seriously thinking that that is _defense_ for the poor engineering?

For the record, my wife has an old Ti book, and having lived a pretty rough life, that thing is still kicking.
For the record, she's very lucky to have one of the few surviving ones.

Remember what laptops looked like before the Ti came along? Some engineering companies still think laptops should be big boring black plastic coffee tables.
I don't care if a computer looks "boring". It's a tool. And it should be rugged, unless you you just want it to lay on said coffee table as a coffee table book looking "neat".

Where are all those hotshot engineers who claimed (backing up their blathering with supposedly 18+ years in the electronics industry) that machining a laptop out of a solid block of Alu. was impossible?
What? Who said that? But you do know, that it's not the entire notebook which is done like that, right? You can take the bottom off, so it's not a one-piece.

"I'm not an engineer" but that must be the first class in engineering school; "You can't do that 101".
Are you done with your strawman?

You're right, there is quite a difference between engineering something and "merely" designing it. The engineering realm of thought revolves around what is; the known, what has been done before.

It revolves around what can be done within constraints. Good engineering will make beautiful working solutions. Just slapping parts together is not good engineering as you seem to imply.


Take a look at the millau bridge:


bridge-france.jpg


Sweet, isn't it?

The thing is, the Millau bridge amongst many other things aren't exactly done by thinking "oh, it hasn't been done before, thus it cannot be done". That, at best, is ignorance to what engineering is, and at worst a full on strawman argument.


However, the design process peers beyond what has been done; it aims to achieve the impossible and change the way people think about products.
Ah, you weren't done with the strawman argumentation. See above.

Apple's magic comes from not just design, but also innovation, which is taking what is known to have been done before and rather than using these facts as an excuse to not change, using them as a springboard into the future.
Magic? Innovation? Are other companies not innovating, and are you seriously suggesting that on the laptop front Apple has "innovated" much or jumped much "into the future"? If anything, they throttling back to the lowest common denominator. The ditching of firewire and removal of choice isn't exactly what I call "innovation", nor "a springboard to the future".

So, is the engineering perfect? probably not, it couldn't be. Apple doesn't engineer designs, they design engineering.
Wow. What a twisted way of saying that they will disregard the demands and basic premises for good engineering to cater to the people who buy stuff on looks alone.

They innovate. With innovation comes quirks that might have to be tweaked or possibly rehashed altogether.
Ah, yes, it's "innovative" designing a laptop that looks thinner than it is, introducing a shape that makes good engineering an impossibility, resulting in numerous workarounds such as a mechanical plastic lid for the plugs and core shutdowns.


But at least they try, and either one appreciates that or they don't. An engineering job at Apple must be one of the toughest jobs on the planet, and notice, it takes an army of engineers to keep up with the handfull of designers there. Innovation is hard work, but someone's gotta do it.

Sigh. The stench of fanboyism is becoming too rancid for me.
 
I don't know much about the merits of CF and Aluminium, but Apple HAS to paint over the CF. Naked CF looks like pure tack.

Yeah, the Millau is awesome.
 
I really see no point making the air lighter. It weighs nothing as it is. Its size is already a much more limiting factor in its portability and carryability etc etc.
 
I really see no point making the air lighter. It weighs nothing as it is. Its size is already a much more limiting factor in its portability and carryability etc etc.

I say, do the carbon fiber weight loss thing (or something that'll make the chassis/body even thinner), then add more weight-adding (or bulk-adding) features. Apple will end up with an MBA that weighs the same, but has more features. :p

But yeah, I agree that a narrower (albeit thicker) notebook is more portable than a thinner (but wider) notebook. A thick pad of A5 is easier to carry around than a thin piece of manila envelope, IMO.
 
If Apple go down this route at all, and a seriously doubt they will, this is the sort of garbage I expect on a Ferrari branded laptop from a company like Acer, it will not be real carbon fiber used. Here's why:

1. It costs far too much to produce items out of proper pre-impregnated CF, not just the material but the manufacturing costs.

2. What is the point; items engineered in CF are normally desigend to be very stong in one load direction only (normally tension), how is this needed in a laptop! The requirements for a laptop case are stiffness and impact resistance, both things real CF are useless at. To make a CF panel stiff designers use a core structure with two skins $$$$$$$ and it is still brittle.

3. because of the nature of the rovings in bidirectional CF (the type you traditionally think of as CF) getting a good finish on it is nigh on impossible even after spraying, which would not be acceptable to Apple.

4. Carbon fiber with its associated resin (normally epoxy) is about as bad for the environment as a material can be. And because it is not in any way recyclable any waste from production goes in the bin more - $$$$.


If Apple go down this route, the panel will be some form of carbon lookalike material which is actually what most people think of as carbon fiber anyway. There are plenty of lookalike plastics which can be vacuum formed easily and have the properties required.

Also, lets get another thing straight here a given volume of epoxy infused carbon fiber is not significantly lighter than say polyester as the resin is actually quite heavy (though well engineered laminates use the minimum resin). What it does have is a super strength to weight ratio under certain loads which means less material can be used for a given strength requirement.

To sum up Carbon Fiber - NO. Carbon Fiber lookalike - possibly
 
Forget the carbon fiber, I want a 10" Macbook AIR!

Apple has been making a lot of manufacturing and fabrication changes lately that yield minimal differences for the end user, while there are a number of product and software design changes that could yield even more noticeable results.

THANK YOU!

While so many of us have been clamoring for a smaller notebook, or a less expensive notebook, Apple decides to that the key thing they need to address in their notebooks is the DIRE issue of them - breaking apart into little pieces.

Apple has made so much noise about their unibody design that makes the notebook more 'solid' ... something almost none of us were clamoring for, took away firewire, and raised the price. Excellent.
 
How about a carbon fiber bottom case with a thin layer of anodised aluminum glued to it? Less weight, same look.
 
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