Where is this segment of the population that needs a computer lighter than 3 pounds? Is this really an issue with the MBA? I have a feeling that the main issue with the MBA is price. It's a gutted-down MacBook that costs almost as much as a MacBook Pro. I honestly can't believe anybody has purchased one considering the only two pros are the size and weight.
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Apple to Adopt Carbon Fiber for Lighter MacBook Air?
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Though I love my macbook air as such, this could be a very good move if,
1. The cost does not go up
2. The look does not get compromised due to juxtaposing metal and carbon
if both are true, I would be thrilled to have an ultra-lightweight, super sturdy notebook that does not feel 'cold' on the palm rests!
1. The cost does not go up
2. The look does not get compromised due to juxtaposing metal and carbon
if both are true, I would be thrilled to have an ultra-lightweight, super sturdy notebook that does not feel 'cold' on the palm rests!
what? lol
i have dealt with carbon fiber alot and yea, a haz mat suit it a component breaks? give me a break
with that said, i have machined carbon fiber and the dust it generates is really fine and will itch the heck out of you if it gets on the skin for a day or so
but as far as a carbon spar breaking and needing a hazmat team to deal with it, thats not true. all it does is snap and guess what, the carbon fiber failed but it is still in the resin
also, you can handle carbon fiber without any thing protective at all. how do you think people lay it up and such? all carbon fiber comes in is in sleeves, rolls, or sheets. in fact i have some in my room right now. such a cool material
or maybe you are right and im gonna have cancer from it in a couple years
stronger is a meaningless word
i mean in what context? tensile?, shear?, ductility?, thermal?
and then carbon fiber in what configuration? meshed? unidirectional, how many layers, resin composition, etc
same with aluminum and all of its various grades
with that said, cf performs very well in tensile tests when compared to aluminum
also, cf tends to shadow radio signals which is bad in some applications
This thread sounds exactly like many of the threads at the various cycling forums I visit. Take out the word MacBook Air and insert the word "Trek" or "Cannondale" or "Specialized" and they would be exactly the same! At the bike forums, you know what they call folks who obsess about weight?......Weight Weenies! Are you a "Weight Weenie?'
All I got to say is that it is going to match my Ducati monster 2004 620ccwith carbon fiber accessories for belt covers and front sprocket cover ;-) Weight is the enemy LOL
Dreams of the MBA of 2010...
Batteries that last 8x longer than today's Li-Ion or even fuel cells that go bendy with the contour of the laptop.
Weighs well under 3-lbs despite improved graphics and processors. If Apple can deliver a MBA that performs like the 2.33 (2007) MBP by 2010 then I'm set.
Batteries that last 8x longer than today's Li-Ion or even fuel cells that go bendy with the contour of the laptop.
Weighs well under 3-lbs despite improved graphics and processors. If Apple can deliver a MBA that performs like the 2.33 (2007) MBP by 2010 then I'm set.
Wait, you want Apple to get rid of its aluminum notebooks because they've used them for eight years, and regardless of the fact that they've remained with aluminum for so long because it's effective? And I thought Apple was the ones who were obsessed with form over function...
Intelligent spelling checker. The spelling checker would know that the position of the hands on the keyboard would move slightly, and it would now that the relative position of your hands to each other would change. The keyboard would follow your hand movements.
I hope they make it look and feel like aluminum somehow. I like how Apple's current laptops feel like one metal piece in your hand. Having two different materials on each side will be 'texturally confusing".
Engineering, design, innovation.
Let's get one thing straight here. Apple is not an engineering company. It is a Design+Innovation company. For the record, my wife has an old Ti book, and having lived a pretty rough life, that thing is still kicking. Remember what laptops looked like before the Ti came along? Some engineering companies still think laptops should be big boring black plastic coffee tables. Where are all those hotshot engineers who claimed (backing up their blathering with supposedly 18+ years in the electronics industry) that machining a laptop out of a solid block of Alu. was impossible? "I'm not an engineer" but that must be the first class in engineering school; "You can't do that 101". You're right, there is quite a difference between engineering something and "merely" designing it. The engineering realm of thought revolves around what is; the known, what has been done before. However, the design process peers beyond what has been done; it aims to achieve the impossible and change the way people think about products. Apple's magic comes from not just design, but also innovation, which is taking what is known to have been done before and rather than using these facts as an excuse to not change, using them as a springboard into the future. So, is the engineering perfect? probably not, it couldn't be. Apple doesn't engineer designs, they design engineering. They innovate. With innovation comes quirks that might have to be tweaked or possibly rehashed altogether. But at least they try, and either one appreciates that or they don't. An engineering job at Apple must be one of the toughest jobs on the planet, and notice, it takes an army of engineers to keep up with the handfull of designers there. Innovation is hard work, but someone's gotta do it.
Let's get one thing straight here. Apple is not an engineering company. It is a Design+Innovation company. For the record, my wife has an old Ti book, and having lived a pretty rough life, that thing is still kicking. Remember what laptops looked like before the Ti came along? Some engineering companies still think laptops should be big boring black plastic coffee tables. Where are all those hotshot engineers who claimed (backing up their blathering with supposedly 18+ years in the electronics industry) that machining a laptop out of a solid block of Alu. was impossible? "I'm not an engineer" but that must be the first class in engineering school; "You can't do that 101". You're right, there is quite a difference between engineering something and "merely" designing it. The engineering realm of thought revolves around what is; the known, what has been done before. However, the design process peers beyond what has been done; it aims to achieve the impossible and change the way people think about products. Apple's magic comes from not just design, but also innovation, which is taking what is known to have been done before and rather than using these facts as an excuse to not change, using them as a springboard into the future. So, is the engineering perfect? probably not, it couldn't be. Apple doesn't engineer designs, they design engineering. They innovate. With innovation comes quirks that might have to be tweaked or possibly rehashed altogether. But at least they try, and either one appreciates that or they don't. An engineering job at Apple must be one of the toughest jobs on the planet, and notice, it takes an army of engineers to keep up with the handfull of designers there. Innovation is hard work, but someone's gotta do it.
the thermal properties of carbon fibre are variable depending on the type of material. here's one example "mate" .
Z L Wang et al 2007 J. Phys. D: Appl. Phys. 40 4686-4690
The measurements on an individual polyacrylonitrile-based carbon fibre 7 µm in diameter were performed using both the closed solution and the series solution, which yielded the thermal conductivity of 84.4 W m−1 K−1
vs aluminum 255W/mK
and they could use a piece of wood to funnel cold air into supercars - so what?
i'm happy to admit different fibres have very different thermal properties - but to say it is "way more superior than" when in some cases it is clearly and demonstrably "far inferior to" - is just plain ignorant.
further - weight savings (which is the key justification for this rumor) would be miniscule - again i say bollocks to this rumor.
Funny...
didn't the original Powerbook and most of family come out of a tech shareing agreement between IBM(ie Lenovo) and Apple.
Maybe they'll use cocoa fibre instead.
mmm.... chocolate
Still if they are going for fibre wouldn't they do both the top and bottom leave the colour natural then anodize the Unibody to match.
Chit-chat aside, the long term solution is a clamshell device 1.5 times the width of an iPhone (it's too small) and displays on both faces so when in "laptop mode" the keyboard and trackball on pad is below and the display is above. When in display mode the image spans the entire flexible surface comprising the clamshell faces and pop-up tools are always available.
Rocketman
I assume by now EVERYONE has seen the bad clone of iPhone, Blackberry device, advertised with Verizon services. These morons still think this is a discreet feature issue not a closed and systematic system issue. Hi Steve . . .
Rocketman
I assume by now EVERYONE has seen the bad clone of iPhone, Blackberry device, advertised with Verizon services. These morons still think this is a discreet feature issue not a closed and systematic system issue. Hi Steve . . .
Wise Choice
Given the demographic of MacBook Air users this is a wise, marketing-inspired, product development alignment by Apple management. I realized some are questioning the "green" aspects of carbon fiber; certainly this is a concern and potential public relations issue for Apple Inc. This issue needs more study.
I would suspect many users in this demographic already have exposure to and acceptance of carbon fiber. As examples, cyclists ride expensive carbon fiber road and mountain bikes, tennis rackets contain carbon fiber, cars, boats, even mopeds too. The lists go on. Certainly a familiarity with carbon fiber does not justify its use if it's toxicity to self and environment is considerable. Surely, this is a feature on which we'll hear.
Given the demographic of MacBook Air users this is a wise, marketing-inspired, product development alignment by Apple management. I realized some are questioning the "green" aspects of carbon fiber; certainly this is a concern and potential public relations issue for Apple Inc. This issue needs more study.
I would suspect many users in this demographic already have exposure to and acceptance of carbon fiber. As examples, cyclists ride expensive carbon fiber road and mountain bikes, tennis rackets contain carbon fiber, cars, boats, even mopeds too. The lists go on. Certainly a familiarity with carbon fiber does not justify its use if it's toxicity to self and environment is considerable. Surely, this is a feature on which we'll hear.
LOL, an "Innovation company"! Please!
Anyway, yes, they design their computers. But are you seriously thinking that that is _defense_ for the poor engineering?
For the record, she's very lucky to have one of the few surviving ones.
I don't care if a computer looks "boring". It's a tool. And it should be rugged, unless you you just want it to lay on said coffee table as a coffee table book looking "neat".
What? Who said that? But you do know, that it's not the entire notebook which is done like that, right? You can take the bottom off, so it's not a one-piece.
Are you done with your strawman?
It revolves around what can be done within constraints. Good engineering will make beautiful working solutions. Just slapping parts together is not good engineering as you seem to imply.
Take a look at the millau bridge:
Sweet, isn't it?
The thing is, the Millau bridge amongst many other things aren't exactly done by thinking "oh, it hasn't been done before, thus it cannot be done". That, at best, is ignorance to what engineering is, and at worst a full on strawman argument.
Ah, you weren't done with the strawman argumentation. See above.
Magic? Innovation? Are other companies not innovating, and are you seriously suggesting that on the laptop front Apple has "innovated" much or jumped much "into the future"? If anything, they throttling back to the lowest common denominator. The ditching of firewire and removal of choice isn't exactly what I call "innovation", nor "a springboard to the future".
Wow. What a twisted way of saying that they will disregard the demands and basic premises for good engineering to cater to the people who buy stuff on looks alone.
Ah, yes, it's "innovative" designing a laptop that looks thinner than it is, introducing a shape that makes good engineering an impossibility, resulting in numerous workarounds such as a mechanical plastic lid for the plugs and core shutdowns.
Sigh. The stench of fanboyism is becoming too rancid for me.
I don't know much about the merits of CF and Aluminium, but Apple HAS to paint over the CF. Naked CF looks like pure tack.
Yeah, the Millau is awesome.
Yeah, the Millau is awesome.
I really see no point making the air lighter. It weighs nothing as it is. Its size is already a much more limiting factor in its portability and carryability etc etc.
I say, do the carbon fiber weight loss thing (or something that'll make the chassis/body even thinner), then add more weight-adding (or bulk-adding) features. Apple will end up with an MBA that weighs the same, but has more features.
But yeah, I agree that a narrower (albeit thicker) notebook is more portable than a thinner (but wider) notebook. A thick pad of A5 is easier to carry around than a thin piece of manila envelope, IMO.
If Apple go down this route at all, and a seriously doubt they will, this is the sort of garbage I expect on a Ferrari branded laptop from a company like Acer, it will not be real carbon fiber used. Here's why:
1. It costs far too much to produce items out of proper pre-impregnated CF, not just the material but the manufacturing costs.
2. What is the point; items engineered in CF are normally desigend to be very stong in one load direction only (normally tension), how is this needed in a laptop! The requirements for a laptop case are stiffness and impact resistance, both things real CF are useless at. To make a CF panel stiff designers use a core structure with two skins $$$$$$$ and it is still brittle.
3. because of the nature of the rovings in bidirectional CF (the type you traditionally think of as CF) getting a good finish on it is nigh on impossible even after spraying, which would not be acceptable to Apple.
4. Carbon fiber with its associated resin (normally epoxy) is about as bad for the environment as a material can be. And because it is not in any way recyclable any waste from production goes in the bin more - $$$$.
If Apple go down this route, the panel will be some form of carbon lookalike material which is actually what most people think of as carbon fiber anyway. There are plenty of lookalike plastics which can be vacuum formed easily and have the properties required.
Also, lets get another thing straight here a given volume of epoxy infused carbon fiber is not significantly lighter than say polyester as the resin is actually quite heavy (though well engineered laminates use the minimum resin). What it does have is a super strength to weight ratio under certain loads which means less material can be used for a given strength requirement.
To sum up Carbon Fiber - NO. Carbon Fiber lookalike - possibly
1. It costs far too much to produce items out of proper pre-impregnated CF, not just the material but the manufacturing costs.
2. What is the point; items engineered in CF are normally desigend to be very stong in one load direction only (normally tension), how is this needed in a laptop! The requirements for a laptop case are stiffness and impact resistance, both things real CF are useless at. To make a CF panel stiff designers use a core structure with two skins $$$$$$$ and it is still brittle.
3. because of the nature of the rovings in bidirectional CF (the type you traditionally think of as CF) getting a good finish on it is nigh on impossible even after spraying, which would not be acceptable to Apple.
4. Carbon fiber with its associated resin (normally epoxy) is about as bad for the environment as a material can be. And because it is not in any way recyclable any waste from production goes in the bin more - $$$$.
If Apple go down this route, the panel will be some form of carbon lookalike material which is actually what most people think of as carbon fiber anyway. There are plenty of lookalike plastics which can be vacuum formed easily and have the properties required.
Also, lets get another thing straight here a given volume of epoxy infused carbon fiber is not significantly lighter than say polyester as the resin is actually quite heavy (though well engineered laminates use the minimum resin). What it does have is a super strength to weight ratio under certain loads which means less material can be used for a given strength requirement.
To sum up Carbon Fiber - NO. Carbon Fiber lookalike - possibly
THANK YOU!
While so many of us have been clamoring for a smaller notebook, or a less expensive notebook, Apple decides to that the key thing they need to address in their notebooks is the DIRE issue of them - breaking apart into little pieces.
Apple has made so much noise about their unibody design that makes the notebook more 'solid' ... something almost none of us were clamoring for, took away firewire, and raised the price. Excellent.
Sony has already done carbon in 2003.
X505 Extreme was 785g - that is getting close to half of MBA.
http://www.vaio.sony.co.jp/Products/PCG-X505/lineup.html#2
Only released in Japan and didn't do so well may due to lack of ergonomics (keyboard position, feel).
Also the carbon was real (front / back covers) and costed a fortune from memory.
X505 Extreme was 785g - that is getting close to half of MBA.
http://www.vaio.sony.co.jp/Products/PCG-X505/lineup.html#2
Only released in Japan and didn't do so well may due to lack of ergonomics (keyboard position, feel).
Also the carbon was real (front / back covers) and costed a fortune from memory.
