Apple to Offer $29 iPhone Battery Replacements, More Battery Health Info in iOS

[apolloa]

The UK is (just about lol) still in the EU.

Your warranty is TWO years. Not one.

Another example of Apple marketing/PR ********. (Peddling the apple warranty in EU countries which is actually a oem warranty and NOT consumer rights -which got them fined by the EU btw)

Since when has it been 2 years mandatory?
Although then again my phone is under warranty with John Lewis for 2 years. Still how would they stand on this considering this is an issue created by Apple disguised as a ‘feature’?

 

[apolloa]

I agree; it would have so simply to fix "I see your battery's old do you want an update that slows it down but perspire in the long run"?

I would probably demand my money back instead if my phone was turning off with 30% charge left! That’s probably another reason they slipped this under the radar.
Well I forsea the regulators and courts getting the truth out of Apple on this one which will be interesting to know.

Or was the battery replacement programme for those iPhones turning off at 30% charge??
[doublepost=1514633488][/doublepost]

[QUOTE="apolloa, post: 25652963, member: 240142"


3 years mandatory in AUSTRALIA FYI...


by the way

I see, so are you going to just post endless gifs and pictures then? Or add to the conversation? I also fail to see what your service record has to do with Apple and it’s battery issues? Please do enlighten us, if you can without a picture.

 

[Phonephreak]

I have other sources that say different.

Post them.

 

[MH01]

Hmmmm so I’ve checked my 6S.

Battery is at 93.29% health at 100% charge.

The CPU is fixed at 1200 MHZ at full charge and plugged in to the mains and won’t budge from this, I’ve just taken it off charge and checked it and it’s at 1512 MHZ.

And when the battery was depleting, so when it was around 70% charge the CPU was at 933 MHZ and then when it dropped to around 50% the CPU speed was dropped to 600 MHZ.

So if CPU Dasher is accurate then the CPU clock speed is constantly being managed depending on battery status. I ran Grid Autosport on it in the background and other apps and the CPU speed didn’t change at all, that was when it was fixed to 633 MHZ.. so that would impact the games performance.

I ran the same app on my iPad Pro and I think it goes to 2.5 GHZ but it just sat there at 2.3 GHZ and didn’t budge...

So yeah, despite what I would consider to be a pretty healthy battery, Apple has employed some seriously aggressive throttling here.
My 6S also does not need a battery replacement under their programme as I checked the seriel number before and I only got it just over a year ago.

Oh so now it’s at 1843 MHZ and the battery at 98%....

Somy conclusion is, my 6S which I got in November 2016 brand new, so literally just over a year old, with a healthy battery, is having its performance halved when the battery is around half. Perhaps I’ll let it drop to 20% today and see what it gets throttled to.
And it my phone was instead turning itself off at 20 to 30% I would have taken it back to Apple and complained, if they said it was the battery I would be in two minds of demanding a free one now as we have 12 month minimum warranties in the U.K. but I would also be thinking I’ve never owned an Apple device that turns itself off at these charge levels, ever and I’ve had 9 iOS devices, that would be more worrying.
I think Apple have messed up, didn’t want to do a product recall and have been caught red handed.

I hope Apple is take to the cleaners for this one and they probably will be, and it’s sad so so so many apologists have come out in force to protect a giant corporation who’s only interest are profits and share price, when it in my view has tried to cover up its mistakes and design flaws. I do wonder just how many are protecting their own AAPL shares...

Please drop the battery sub 20% , interesting that it does.

Also interesting that the iPad Pro just works. Did you try different % on the iPad. Id be interested to see if the iPad Air 2 is fine , many are still holding onto that one

 

[Jmausmuc]

Hmmmm so I’ve checked my 6S.

Battery is at 93.29% health at 100% charge.

The CPU is fixed at 1200 MHZ at full charge and plugged in to the mains and won’t budge from this, I’ve just taken it off charge and checked it and it’s at 1512 MHZ.

And when the battery was depleting, so when it was around 70% charge the CPU was at 933 MHZ and then when it dropped to around 50% the CPU speed was dropped to 600 MHZ.

So if CPU Dasher is accurate then the CPU clock speed is constantly being managed depending on battery status. I ran Grid Autosport on it in the background and other apps and the CPU speed didn’t change at all, that was when it was fixed to 633 MHZ.. so that would impact the games performance.

I ran the same app on my iPad Pro and I think it goes to 2.5 GHZ but it just sat there at 2.3 GHZ and didn’t budge...

So yeah, despite what I would consider to be a pretty healthy battery, Apple has employed some seriously aggressive throttling here.
My 6S also does not need a battery replacement under their programme as I checked the seriel number before and I only got it just over a year ago.

Oh so now it’s at 1843 MHZ and the battery at 98%....

Somy conclusion is, my 6S which I got in November 2016 brand new, so literally just over a year old, with a healthy battery, is having its performance halved when the battery is around half. Perhaps I’ll let it drop to 20% today and see what it gets throttled to.
And it my phone was instead turning itself off at 20 to 30% I would have taken it back to Apple and complained, if they said it was the battery I would be in two minds of demanding a free one now as we have 12 month minimum warranties in the U.K. but I would also be thinking I’ve never owned an Apple device that turns itself off at these charge levels, ever and I’ve had 9 iOS devices, that would be more worrying.
I think Apple have messed up, didn’t want to do a product recall and have been caught red handed.

I hope Apple is take to the cleaners for this one and they probably will be, and it’s sad so so so many apologists have come out in force to protect a giant corporation who’s only interest are profits and share price, when it in my view has tried to cover up its mistakes and design flaws. I do wonder just how many are protecting their own AAPL shares...

Can you believe it?
Throtteled at over 90% Health and mit even only temporary as it Looks.

There are enough people on here claiming that what is happening is a non issue, because only “old” phones are throtteled and only during “peak loads” when in fact iPhone 7s are already bribing throtteled (about a year old) and CPU Dasher shows a constantly reduced clock speed.

On a non throtteled phone like my iPhone X it always shows the highest clock speed even without any kind of apps running. On my 6S it is constantly under 1000 MHz and the 6S is just 12 month old.

 

[MH01]

Can you believe it?
Throtteled at over 90% Health and mit even only temporary as it Looks.

There are enough people on here claiming that what is happening is a non issue, because only “old” phones are throtteled and only during “peak loads” when in fact iPhone 7s are already bribing throtteled (about a year old) and CPU Dasher shows a constantly reduced clock speed.

On a non throtteled phone like my iPhone X it always shows the highest clock speed even without any kind of apps running. On my 6S it is constantly under 1000 MHz and the 6S is just 12 month old.

It's good too see some actual tests, good on the members contributing .

For some here, Apple can admit fault , pay compensation and they will still deny it. It's not about logic or facts , it's about Apple will never be wrong , each to their own, choose the individuals that you wish to engage with in intellectual discussions.

I'm very much guilty of faith over logic and facts, I'm a massive sports fan! And 2018 is our year!!!

 

[oldmacs]

3 years mandatory in AUSTRALIA FYI...

No its not. It’s 2 years in Australia. If you want to get technical it’s actually defined as a reasonable period of time. Apple has decided reasonable is 2 years in Australia.

 

[MH01]

Hmmmm so I’ve checked my 6S.

Battery is at 93.29% health at 100% charge.

The CPU is fixed at 1200 MHZ at full charge and plugged in to the mains and won’t budge from this, I’ve just taken it off charge and checked it and it’s at 1512 MHZ.

And when the battery was depleting, so when it was around 70% charge the CPU was at 933 MHZ and then when it dropped to around 50% the CPU speed was dropped to 600 MHZ.

So if CPU Dasher is accurate then the CPU clock speed is constantly being managed depending on battery status. I ran Grid Autosport on it in the background and other apps and the CPU speed didn’t change at all, that was when it was fixed to 633 MHZ.. so that would impact the games performance.

I ran the same app on my iPad Pro and I think it goes to 2.5 GHZ but it just sat there at 2.3 GHZ and didn’t budge...

So yeah, despite what I would consider to be a pretty healthy battery, Apple has employed some seriously aggressive throttling here.
My 6S also does not need a battery replacement under their programme as I checked the seriel number before and I only got it just over a year ago.

Oh so now it’s at 1843 MHZ and the battery at 98%....

Somy conclusion is, my 6S which I got in November 2016 brand new, so literally just over a year old, with a healthy battery, is having its performance halved when the battery is around half. Perhaps I’ll let it drop to 20% today and see what it gets throttled to.
And it my phone was instead turning itself off at 20 to 30% I would have taken it back to Apple and complained, if they said it was the battery I would be in two minds of demanding a free one now as we have 12 month minimum warranties in the U.K. but I would also be thinking I’ve never owned an Apple device that turns itself off at these charge levels, ever and I’ve had 9 iOS devices, that would be more worrying.
I think Apple have messed up, didn’t want to do a product recall and have been caught red handed.

I hope Apple is take to the cleaners for this one and they probably will be, and it’s sad so so so many apologists have come out in force to protect a giant corporation who’s only interest are profits and share price, when it in my view has tried to cover up its mistakes and design flaws. I do wonder just how many are protecting their own AAPL shares...

Quick question . Have you got anything like 3D mark etc.

I'd be interested to see the results at 100%, 79%, 59%, 39 %and 19%

Assumption all along was that the results would be roughly the same

 

[clauzzz203]

Hmmmm so I’ve checked my 6S.

Battery is at 93.29% health at 100% charge.

The CPU is fixed at 1200 MHZ at full charge and plugged in to the mains and won’t budge from this, I’ve just taken it off charge and checked it and it’s at 1512 MHZ.

And when the battery was depleting, so when it was around 70% charge the CPU was at 933 MHZ and then when it dropped to around 50% the CPU speed was dropped to 600 MHZ.

So if CPU Dasher is accurate then the CPU clock speed is constantly being managed depending on battery status. I ran Grid Autosport on it in the background and other apps and the CPU speed didn’t change at all, that was when it was fixed to 633 MHZ.. so that would impact the games performance.

I ran the same app on my iPad Pro and I think it goes to 2.5 GHZ but it just sat there at 2.3 GHZ and didn’t budge...

So yeah, despite what I would consider to be a pretty healthy battery, Apple has employed some seriously aggressive throttling here.
My 6S also does not need a battery replacement under their programme as I checked the seriel number before and I only got it just over a year ago.

Oh so now it’s at 1843 MHZ and the battery at 98%....

Somy conclusion is, my 6S which I got in November 2016 brand new, so literally just over a year old, with a healthy battery, is having its performance halved when the battery is around half. Perhaps I’ll let it drop to 20% today and see what it gets throttled to.
And it my phone was instead turning itself off at 20 to 30% I would have taken it back to Apple and complained, if they said it was the battery I would be in two minds of demanding a free one now as we have 12 month minimum warranties in the U.K. but I would also be thinking I’ve never owned an Apple device that turns itself off at these charge levels, ever and I’ve had 9 iOS devices, that would be more worrying.
I think Apple have messed up, didn’t want to do a product recall and have been caught red handed.

I hope Apple is take to the cleaners for this one and they probably will be, and it’s sad so so so many apologists have come out in force to protect a giant corporation who’s only interest are profits and share price, when it in my view has tried to cover up its mistakes and design flaws. I do wonder just how many are protecting their own AAPL shares...

All take note: this is a new discovery, throttling is even worse than we believed until today.

 

[Piggie]

I will have to say, and I'm 100% sure about this.

This whole fiasco, that has unfolded over the past couple of weeks, has, hurt Apple and iPhone sales.
Of course, millions will still buy iPhones.
But every little thing, add's up normal people's minds.
And this is STILL a negative.

For your typical consumer all they have seen is. Apple make iphones slower
Poor Batteries.
Apple admits to it, and you can get your iPhone battery replaced cheaper.

It's till a major negative to someone not brand loyal, who may think, when upgrade time comes.
Let's go to another brand, without all these "news-worthy" battery problems.

 

[Puddled]

Hmmmm so I’ve checked my 6S.

Battery is at 93.29% health at 100% charge.

The CPU is fixed at 1200 MHZ at full charge and plugged in to the mains and won’t budge from this, I’ve just taken it off charge and checked it and it’s at 1512 MHZ.

And when the battery was depleting, so when it was around 70% charge the CPU was at 933 MHZ and then when it dropped to around 50% the CPU speed was dropped to 600 MHZ.

So if CPU Dasher is accurate then the CPU clock speed is constantly being managed depending on battery status. I ran Grid Autosport on it in the background and other apps and the CPU speed didn’t change at all, that was when it was fixed to 633 MHZ.. so that would impact the games performance.

I ran the same app on my iPad Pro and I think it goes to 2.5 GHZ but it just sat there at 2.3 GHZ and didn’t budge...

So yeah, despite what I would consider to be a pretty healthy battery, Apple has employed some seriously aggressive throttling here.
My 6S also does not need a battery replacement under their programme as I checked the seriel number before and I only got it just over a year ago.

Oh so now it’s at 1843 MHZ and the battery at 98%....

Somy conclusion is, my 6S which I got in November 2016 brand new, so literally just over a year old, with a healthy battery, is having its performance halved when the battery is around half. Perhaps I’ll let it drop to 20% today and see what it gets throttled to.
And it my phone was instead turning itself off at 20 to 30% I would have taken it back to Apple and complained, if they said it was the battery I would be in two minds of demanding a free one now as we have 12 month minimum warranties in the U.K. but I would also be thinking I’ve never owned an Apple device that turns itself off at these charge levels, ever and I’ve had 9 iOS devices, that would be more worrying.
I think Apple have messed up, didn’t want to do a product recall and have been caught red handed.

I hope Apple is take to the cleaners for this one and they probably will be, and it’s sad so so so many apologists have come out in force to protect a giant corporation who’s only interest are profits and share price, when it in my view has tried to cover up its mistakes and design flaws. I do wonder just how many are protecting their own AAPL shares...

Instead of this thread being flooded by knights in white armour defending Apple and derailing the threat (rather successfully), this is what SHOULD be being discussed and investigated.

Well done .

 

[Zoser]

I really can't understand this. I put yesterday a five years old 3000mAh battery in my Android phone por test purposes and it danced around my 7 Plus with 11.2.1 and similar battery but newer. It lasted a full day of use with full performance and old battery. I felt my 7 Plus slower than my Android phone with an older battery.

If we think in older devices with a lower capacity battery i could even think about a design flaw that they are trying to cover (still possible) and avoid the massive avalanch in their customer services, which at the end, is their own fault too due to a bad quality battery or design. But with their declaration than new phones will receive this treatment in the future, i believe that is more like a planned obsolescence and force you to pay a maintenance alternative in the new ones than a flaw. They was caught and inmeddiantly dropped the price of replacement to a more affordable but still profitable for them because a kit for change the battery cost $15 including taxes and less for them.

In Android, if a brand do something like this, customers inmediantly will buy phones of other brands and crack their sales. In the case of Apple, i see this more and abuse of their position with a closed ecosystem due to the money invested by customers in apps, etc. It's like, well, pay the $29 fee each time their software decide that your battery doesn't reach 80% of it's health or run slow yout phone till you buy their new phone (which is usually expensive), almost a yearly fee.

Another consecuence that I see is that now, is that the resell value of the phones has dropped too, at least the cost of the battery replacement plus probable delivery cost. And literally that some potential buyers now are not interested anymore in buy used iPhones due to this behaviour and obsolescence, knowing that they'll suffer it immediately or in the future with those phones.

I haven't readed about an option to choose between full performance and slow mode on your own convenience. I see that as a solution but it's seem that the only thing we'll get is a tool to show us when we'll need to pay their fee to avoid it or see our iPhones slowed. Something in my oppinion unacceptable and enough to not buy more Apple products in the future till they change it or never. The stone is on their roof so we'll see what they decide to do. And I'll do the same in consequence.

 

[apolloa]

So my battery is now showing as 65% and he CPU is at the expected 911 MHZ.

My 9.7” iPad Pro battery is at 94.44% and currently has 88% charge, the CPU is 2256 MHZ and the max is 2260 MHZ.

3D Mark on my iPhone 6S results,

Are....

Sling Shot Extreme score is 1571 and battery is now at 41%, CPU at 911 MHZ.

Ice Storm Unlimited score is 17862, and 3DMark says this score is lower the expected.

UPDATE:

So 3D Mark, battery at 22%, CPU at 911 MHZ

Sling Shot Extreme score is 1495

Battery now at 13%, CPU still at 911 MHZ, Ice Storm Unlimited score is 17877.


UPDATE 2::

Ok, so battery at 100%, CPU at 1512, Sling Shot Extreme test score is 1941.

Ice Storm Unlimited score is 25274.

So definitely noticeable performance gains. And even with the battery fully charged or even in charge the CPU never runs at its max speed, it should be 1800 but the highest it goes to is 1512.

 

[Puddled]

Nope, and this is an Internet forum with rules and regulations just like the military has..



Since when has it been 2 years mandatory?
Although then again my phone is under warranty with John Lewis for 2 years. Still how would they stand on this considering this is an issue created by Apple disguised as a ‘feature’?

Well,

You can read the doublespeak of the apple site
https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

Note that they refer to the "Apple limited warranty "

Or

You can look for the truth:

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-eu-warranty


Apple PR and Marketing is snidey and insidious. When it comes to reading anything from Apple, read it twice if not thrice.

"It's all screen!"


Lol.

 

[MH01]

So my battery is now showing as 65% and he CPU is at the expected 911 MHZ.

My 9.7” iPad Pro battery is at 94.44% and currently has 88% charge, the CPU is 2256 MHZ and the max is 2260 MHZ.

3D Mark on my iPhone 6S.

Are....

Sling Shot Extreme score is 1571 and battery is now at 41%, CPU at 911 MHZ.

I think we will find the iPad is not throttled .

Keep up the good work

 

[apolloa]

Well,

You can read the doublespeak of the apple site
https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

Note that they refer to the "Apple limited warranty "

Or

You can look for the truth:

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-eu-warranty


Apple PR and Marketing is snidey and insidious. When it comes to reading anything from Apple, read it twice if not thrice.

"It's all screen!"


Lol.

Hmm interesting read, so it’s basically the fit for purpose law which in the UK I thought was up to 4 or 5 years.
[doublepost=1514640483][/doublepost]

I think we will find the iPad is not throttled .

Keep up the good work

Haha true, although I’ve found iOS 11 to make it seem slow... anyway I’ll run the 3D mark test at 20% and then charge it up and run them.

 

[DNichter]

The problem is it is not on “old” phones. Old phones are considered how old? This is happening on a phone that is less than one year to a year. After one year it is considered “old” after paying $800+ ? So you pay $800+ each year if you upgrade every year for the new one. If on contract the phone is expected to last for at least two to three years as you pay for it...? It is about choice, but if they intentionally slow it down, then it tricks people to upgrade and that is the question that is in the class action suit.

If the battery just died, then people would replace it. It would show Apple uses cheaper batteries and would not be good for image. After a year, it should not just die for the prices that people are paying. Apple is using cheaper batteries that degrade quickly and wrote code to compensate for it. Ok, if this is a cheap product, but this is considered a premium product. Replacing the battery is cheaper than buying a new phone.

They are getting hit with trying to save manufacturing costs on cheaper batteries to maximize profits and got caught. Or...in the worst case planned obsolescence which they have been accused of for some time.

This could end up being the straw that broke the camel’s back. Apple’s quick response (not normal) is also something that brings question because they understand this could get out-of-hand due to courts looking to bring down the strong man mentality. This could grow to be a major problem for Apple....

You could be right of course, but nothing you wrote here are known facts. Just word of mouth from forums. I’m sure there are issues, but it’s not every phone. My girlfriends 6s was just fine.

 

[apolloa]

You could be right of course, but nothing you wrote here are known facts. Just word of mouth from forums. I’m sure there are issues, but it’s not every phone. My girlfriends 6s was just fine.

Have you tested her 6S with CPU Dasher? To see if it’s being throttled?

 

[Abazigal]

I haven't readed about an option to choose between full performance and slow mode on your own convenience. I see that as a solution but it's seem that the only thing we'll get is a tool to show us when we'll need to pay their fee to avoid it or see our iPhones slowed. Something in my oppinion unacceptable and enough to not buy more Apple products in the future till they change it or never. The stone is on their roof so we'll see what they decide to do. And I'll do the same in consequence.

I don’t think Apple is ever ever going to allow people a switch to choose a crap experience (shutting down phones) over the smooth experience they want people to have.

 

[MH01]

Well,

You can read the doublespeak of the apple site
https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

Note that they refer to the "Apple limited warranty "

Or

You can look for the truth:

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-eu-warranty


Apple PR and Marketing is snidey and insidious. When it comes to reading anything from Apple, read it twice if not thrice.

"It's all screen!"


Lol.

Yeah this led to them having to show AppleCare v Cutomer rights in EU
[doublepost=1514641314][/doublepost]

I don’t think Apple is ever ever going to allow people a switch to choose a crap experience (shutting down phones) over the smooth experience they want people to have.

My 6 plus - worst experience I had , 1Gb ram was inadequate

 

[DNichter]

Have you tested her 6S with CPU Dasher? To see if it’s being throttled?

No, but I used it and it had no performance issues. From everyone on here, the phone is “unusable”.

 

[apolloa]

I don’t think Apple is ever ever going to allow people a switch to choose a crap experience (shutting down phones) over the smooth experience they want people to have.

If an iPhone is shutting down with 30% battery charge left, it is faulty end off! I have never had one of the 9 iOS devices I’ve owned turn off at 30%. I would rather have a device perform as expected and sold at max speed until the battery reaches 0% and turns off like all other devices.
[doublepost=1514641566][/doublepost]

No, but I used it and it had no performance issues. From everyone on here, the phone is “unusable”.

My 6S is perfectly usable and shows no sign from my use of being throttled browsing the web, email, YouTube, yet it heavily is, I haven’t played any games on it for a while though, I suspect they will definitely take a performance hit.

 

[BootsWalking]

EETimes posted an interesting article about the battery issue, attributing it to Apple's pursuit of single-core performance:

"Apple chased single-core performance to an insane degree. They were far ahead of Android, but it came at a cost of power consumption — they require more voltage, and as a battery ages it cannot supply the needed voltage level"
...
"Meanwhile, Poole is investigating other Apple and Android products. So far he hasn’t seen other examples of the battery problem.

Android phones such as the Samsung Galaxy 6 he tested generally have “less aggressive single-core performance so they draw less power and tolerate an older battery,” he said."

https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1332779

 

[WatchFromAfar]

I really can't understand this. I put yesterday a five years old 3000mAh battery in my Android phone por test purposes and it danced around my 7 Plus with 11.2.1 and similar battery but newer. It lasted a full day of use with full performance and old battery. I felt my 7 Plus slower than my Android phone with an older battery.

If we think in older devices with a lower capacity battery i could even think about a design flaw that they are trying to cover (still possible) and avoid the massive avalanch in their customer services, which at the end, is their own fault too due to a bad quality battery or design. But with their declaration than new phones will receive this treatment in the future, i believe that is more like a planned obsolescence and force you to pay a maintenance alternative in the new ones than a flaw. They was caught and inmeddiantly dropped the price of replacement to a more affordable but still profitable for them because a kit for change the battery cost $15 including taxes and less for them.

In Android, if a brand do something like this, customers inmediantly will buy phones of other brands and crack their sales. In the case of Apple, i see this more and abuse of their position with a closed ecosystem due to the money invested by customers in apps, etc. It's like, well, pay the $29 fee each time their software decide that your battery doesn't reach 80% of it's health or run slow yout phone till you buy their new phone (which is usually expensive), almost a yearly fee.

Another consecuence that I see is that now, is that the resell value of the phones has dropped too, at least the cost of the battery replacement plus probable delivery cost. And literally that some potential buyers now are not interested anymore in buy used iPhones due to this behaviour and obsolescence, knowing that they'll suffer it immediately or in the future with those phones.

I haven't readed about an option to choose between full performance and slow mode on your own convenience. I see that as a solution but it's seem that the only thing we'll get is a tool to show us when we'll need to pay their fee to avoid it or see our iPhones slowed. Something in my oppinion unacceptable and enough to not buy more Apple products in the future till they change it or never. The stone is on their roof so we'll see what they decide to do. And I'll do the same in consequence.

The problem can't be related to age. If I bough an iPhone and left it in the drawer for three years, then powered it up who gives Apple the right to determine my battery must be old and therefore should be throttled?

 

[Kmart9419]

You'll reach a point where you realize you aren't talking to people who can be reasoned with.

They'll deliberately ignore half the facts and act like anyone who isn't in support of Apple's decisions, especially their anti-consumer practices such as this, is somehow a lesser person.

In most cases, I suspect it's AAPL shareholders who don't care if you get screwed over as long as their lucrative stocks do well.

Use the ignore feature. Only a few needed to make the thread bearable. The trolls are quite obvious.