Apple Unable to Find iPhone Partner in Europe?

I suspect the biggest problem the European Telcos have with Apple is that it is an American company. Microsoft, Apple, and Google have all committed the unpardonable sin of being on the left side of the Atlantic and so are subject to a never ending campaign of formal and informal harassment in the European market.

Or maybe they've just been in the game a long time? Mobile telephony has been a fact of life here since 1981, and in 1985 there were over 63000 customers here. Given the very high price, and a small population, that's a very high figure. Takeup has grown at an incredible rate, and in the mid 90s almost everyone had a mobile of some sort (either GSM or the old NMT system). At the same time, mobile phones were nowhere near as widespread (or cheap) in the UK, for example.

(And Norwegians love their American links, BTW. There are numerous festivals etc celebrating Norwegian-American history every year :) )
 
Or maybe they've just been in the game a long time? Mobile telephony has been a fact of life here since 1981, and in 1985 there were over 63000 customers here. Given the very high price, and a small population, that's a very high figure. Takeup has grown at an incredible rate, and in the mid 90s almost everyone had a mobile of some sort (either GSM or the old NMT system). At the same time, mobile phones were nowhere near as widespread (or cheap) in the UK, for example.

(And Norwegians love their American links, BTW. There are numerous festivals etc celebrating Norwegian-American history every year :) )

My ignorance is high with the Norwegian culture. So please do explain what you mean by they love their links?
 
My ignorance is high with the Norwegian culture. So please do explain what you mean by they love their links?

It's going off topic, but relates really to all the emigration from Norway to America several generations ago. Lots of American families come here looking for their roots. Many of them have kept the 'old' Norwegian language in their families which sounds very strange to us now, but shows how important their home was to them. And the families that stayed behind here love to find their relations in the US. We have a big festival in our town each year, with lectures, concerts etc. (Link to some info before I bore everyone else to death: http://www.utvandringssenter.no/english/default.asp)
 
Should Sony or Nokia want to build one; which OS can they use? The OS of the phone usually locks you into a certain style of interface. Nokia can't simply decide that the next version of Symbian will operate completely differently. The developers would go berserk. And what do you think the degrees of freedom are when the phone uses Windows Mobile? Exactly. None.

If your phone uses some other OS (like Samsung, Sharp etc.) - you're in for a treat. Because I cannot imagine that these interfaces have ever been field tested. My beautiful Sharp 902 (2 cameras, gorgeous display blabla) was a pain to use. Really, try placing a call to someone who just sent you an SMS. It takes 7 keypresses! Seven! Several dialog boxes asking me to select the number to dial - and they list only one number! Aaaargh! That's when I thought to myself, if this phone could have a GUI designed by Apple.

From wiki: Symbian is currently owned by Nokia (47.9%), Ericsson (15.6%), Sony Ericsson (13.1%), Panasonic (10.5%), Siemens AG (8.4%) and Samsung (4.5%)

You do realise Nokia, SE utilise more than one OS.

The 902 was an awful brick of a phone, that thing has to be 2-3 years old, it killed of a very successful series of phones between vodafone and sharp.
 
The 902...

Yes I know that Nokia and SE are using several OS'es. It's just that I don't see a new one waiting in the wings to become the iPhone killer.

The 902 like you said is now an 'old' phone. But I can remember the excitement when it came out, it had all the hardware you could want. And none of the software to properly control it all, unfortunately. After a few months, nobody wanted one. Word spreads quickly.
 
I live in the Netherlands, which is one of the EU's most competitive phone markets. I also know that with Apple, most demands for partners usually have to do with protecting the user experience because that user experience is Apple's key differentiator. Put the two together and I think the anger of the providers lies in several things.

First thing: The Apple iPhone will mean a new business model and a new pricing plan just for this phone. Including a data subsription is more or less required for the user experience of the phone. The providers are used to making good money on data-traffic. Apple may want them to provide a flat-fee access to the internet to protect the user experience.

Second thing: Apple is probably not willing to lower the wholesale price of the phone for providers to promote it. Most providers 'subsidise' the phone (or rather, you do it for them through your monthly fee). Depending on the plan you buy, you either get the phone for little money or for free. With the iPhone, they would probably still have to charge something like EUR 499 even with a 2-year plan. And that goes against the user experience of the average customer (2-year expensive plan = free phone).

Third thing: Apple is probably not okay with 'branding' the software of the phone, which usually also means taking the user to the provider's portal first before they can go on he 'real' internet. Providers have paid big money setting up and marketing their portals. They make big money selling ringtones. Will the iPhone even accept ringtones?

Fourth thing: The expensive changes to the voicemail system should not be taken lightly. You don't want to spoil the experience of non-iPhone users, so the system has to become two systems or should be made phone-aware. That is a *huge* change. Voicemail systems are mission-critical applications people. Big bucks are involved in any change and several providers have invested heavily in making the current systems more user-friendly. And (of course!) they charge you for listening to your voicemails! Skipping voicemails is not beneficial for them.

Fifth thing: the providers in Europe have paid insane amounts of money (some of them almost went bankrupt) to get 3G licenses. We call it 'UMTS' over here (WCDMA). To make money on these 3G networks, they need phones to support video calling (requiring a camera on the front of the phone and software support of course) and the phone should support HSDPA for data use.

Sixth thing: If the phone does not use MMS, that's another revenue-stream cut off for the providers. This game is about making money, not about forking it over to Apple.

Technically, I think the iPhone has a chance if it will support GSM quad-band, WCDMA/HSDPA and gets a better camera. Sounds like a version 2 to me.

Phones in Europe are pretty sophisticated (my Nokia N95 has all features mentioned plus a GPS antenna built in, a 5 MP camera with H.264 video recording, Bluetooth audio streaming etc.) but Apple is simply better at making features available to users in a simple way. They are GUI and user-experience experts. If Nokia ever finds out that the user experience is the key difference, Apple is f****d.


Good post, this one. About sums up the main difficulties Apple faces imho.

Nonetheless, I think the iphone will be a relative success over here, if only because it carries the Apple brand. People that already own an iPod will want to check it out, maybe to replace their older iPod with it and their phone at the same time... In the end, not all of us use MMS, all kind of ringtones, or 3G services.
 
I am afraid tghat Apple will find out the hard way. At the moment there is no hype or advertising of the iPhone in Great Britain and people are not really excited or interested in it.

Ha Ha .. then have a look at the latest independent market research for the Iphone in the UK. They are saying that at the moment the Iphone would immediately sell and account for 16% of the UK phone market or some 7 millions phones.

"The Apple iPhone is set to be a big hit when it hits UK shores later this year. A survey suggests seven million Britons have a strong interest in buying an iPhone.
More than half (56 per cent) of mobile phone users in the UK had heard of the Apple iPhone, according to mobile measurement firm M:Metrics ' April Benchmark Survey.
Of these, 30 per cent said they had a 'strong interest' in buying an Apple iPhone , even if a UK launch date hasn't been set yet."
 
Ha Ha .. then have a look at the latest independent market research for the Iphone in the UK. They are saying that at the moment the Iphone would immediately sell and account for 16% of the UK phone market or some 7 millions phones.

"The Apple iPhone is set to be a big hit when it hits UK shores later this year. A survey suggests seven million Britons have a strong interest in buying an iPhone.
More than half (56 per cent) of mobile phone users in the UK had heard of the Apple iPhone, according to mobile measurement firm M:Metrics ' April Benchmark Survey.
Of these, 30 per cent said they had a 'strong interest' in buying an Apple iPhone , even if a UK launch date hasn't been set yet."

Hearing about and being interested in is completely different from reality when it comes to signing a contract and paying a premium for an average mobile.

I'm sure a lot of people have heard about independent trips into space, with many interested in it as well. But are they all really going to do it?
 
Why is everyone just ignoring facts and rather seems to enjoy nose picking? When we read iPhone comes to europe, do you actually read the european continent? It's the entire EU or no EU at all. Those are european laws.
What are you waffling on about exactly?

I think it's a mystery to a lot of us.
 
After being initially very impressed with the iPhone I've come full circle to almost hating the device. Apple are spending so much time, money and resources on it that it's negatively affecting their other markets (eg: Leopard delay). Not only that but they're so arrogant about the iPhone that they're gouging the customers and trying to screw over the service providers.

Apple need to learn that they can't throw their weight around in the mobile phone business the way they do in the music/MP3 player business. Especially in Europe.

The iPhone isn't even that great either. No 3G, no MMS (which my previous FOUR phones can do), no third party apps, measly 2MP cam, no MP3 tones (which every other phone can do). It's a glorified phone with a novel interface. That's it, yet Apple expect people to pay hundreds upon hundreds of pounds AS WELL as signing their life away on a contract for it?

I think they're in for a rude awakening, at least outside the US.

The iPhone needs to be better. Include a stylus for drawing and writing/note taking. Add in 3G and MMS. Allow MP3's to be used as tones. Open it up to third party developers (or else what is even the point of the device?). And don't make consumers sell their organs and souls for it.

The iPhone had so much potential. But as I see it now it's a good idea very poorly executed.
 
Not only that but they're so arrogant about the iPhone that they're gouging the customers and trying to screw over the service providers.

I wouldn't waste any energy of worrying about the mobile phone network operators getting screwed over. Their business model pretty much relies on screwing customers over.
 
I've been holding off renewing my phone because, at first, the iPhone looked so good.

However, the lack of 3G and MMS have clinched it for me. I've just ordered a new Sony Ericcson free of charge with my existing Orange contract. When that's due for replacement in 12 months, perhaps the iPhone will be a decent product.

I suspect many other people will be doing the same.
 
I've been holding off renewing my phone because, at first, the iPhone looked so good.

However, the lack of 3G and MMS have clinched it for me. I've just ordered a new Sony Ericcson free of charge with my existing Orange contract. When that's due for replacement in 12 months, perhaps the iPhone will be a decent product.

I suspect many other people will be doing the same.

Come October I'll be doing this, depending on the real reports of how the iPhone is (not conjecture like all the above).

edesignuk: I think we established that our Belgian friend didn't know what he was talking about.
 
Come October I'll be doing this, depending on the real reports of how the iPhone is (not conjecture like all the above).

Well there are a few things we know for sure that'll definitely put people off, like the lack of 3G, MMS or MP3 ringtones. I was tempted to wait for the iPhone. But the more we learn about it the less exciting and revolutionary it sounds. So last month I upgraded to a brand new Sony Ericsson, for free on a one year contract, and I love it. I have the K810 as well, their latest handset.

This is what people expect in the EU.

I'll have another look at the iPhone when version 2.0 is being released. Perhaps then it'll be somewhere close to reaching it's potential and also be at a reasonable price-point.
 
Well there are a few things we know for sure that'll definitely put people off, like the lack of 3G, MMS or MP3 ringtones. I was tempted to wait for the iPhone. But the more we learn about it the less exciting and revolutionary it sounds. So last month I upgraded to a brand new Sony Ericsson, for free on a one year contract, and I love it. I have the K810 as well, their latest handset.

This is what people expect in the EU.

I'll have another look at the iPhone when version 2.0 is being released. Perhaps then it'll be somewhere close to reaching it's potential and also be at a reasonable price-point.

I agree with what you're saying.

However we don't know for certain the iPhone spec in Europe and Asia yet. It could be that 3G (and that has to be HSDPA really) is included.

As it stands the spec for the device is likely to put people off.
 
I agree with what you're saying.

However we don't know for certain the iPhone spec in Europe and Asia yet. It could be that 3G (and that has to be HSDPA really) is included.

As it stands the spec for the device is likely to put people off.

I hope it isn't a flop though, because I think Apple have the right basic idea with the iPhone. They've just made some questionable decisions and been forced into other errors (like the music industry pushing for no MP3 ringtones).

I'd love to have one device in my pocket that did everything. I think it really needs a stylus, because it would be brilliant for taking notes and drawing. It would be your notepad, phone, PDA and iPod all in one. Which would be utterly amazing.

My contract will be up next May so hopefully Apple will have something nice for around then... :D
 
I'd love to have one device in my pocket that did everything. I think it really needs a stylus, because it would be brilliant for taking notes and drawing. It would be your notepad, phone, PDA and iPod all in one. Which would be utterly amazing.

Have you used a stylus based user-interface much? (I have). There's a reason why everything has qwerty-based 'thumbboards' these days.

We'll know if the iPhone keyboard is any good in a few weeks I guess.
 
Have you used a stylus based user-interface much? (I have). There's a reason why everything has qwerty-based 'thumbboards' these days.

We'll know if the iPhone keyboard is any good in a few weeks I guess.

I have to admit I haven't ever owned a device with stylus input, however it seems to work pretty well for the DS in many different situations. I'm sure Apple could do better than the DS, especially with the better tech in the iPhone. It just seems like a "no brainer" to use a touch screen as a notepad and for drawing.
 
I have to admit I haven't ever owned a device with stylus input, however it seems to work pretty well for the DS in many different situations. I'm sure Apple could do better than the DS, especially with the better tech in the iPhone. It just seems like a "no brainer" to use a touch screen as a notepad and for drawing.

Wasn't the Newton stylus based? They must have dismissed it as a bad idea.

The DS system is actually relatively slick but I've used Pocket PC and Palm (graffiti and graffiti2) and it's hard to get inputting text without lots of backspaces etc.

Potentially the iPhone could be the best of both worlds.
 
iphone in Switzerland

Both main Swiss mobile providers confirmed (by mail) that the iphone will be available in Switzerland. Swisscom didn't specify how and talked about december, but Orange Switzerland said that they will provide it (themselves - not to buy separately) from the 3. quartal on. :)
 
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