Apple Vision Pro Could Take Four Generations to Reach 'Ideal Form'

[Jim Lahey]

Well what about microwaves, radio waves, and all the electromagnetic radiation you get just by leaving your home?

My AVP is not bolted to my head. It’s held on by a strap. And compared to the power put out by tv’s, its pretty mild. But then, you probably dont watch TV either.

We should be concerned about these things, but i tend to reserve an opinion for when i actually have some information. Rarely have an opinion on lack of information. Just the way I critically think.

I don’t have a microwave oven. I do have an RF/EF/EMF meter and know how to use it, so I’m pretty aware of exposure levels in different settings and distances from source.

It’s absolutely fine if others disagree or even scoff. I speak only for myself when I say I would never wear such a thing on my head. You’re free to do as you wish 👍

 

[jerryk]

I am waiting for the Wayfarer sunglass edition. The current one is way too bulky.

 

[citysnaps]

Never understood why people seem to think buying an iPad is a binary decision over buying a laptop. I bought both. As much as you say the laptop does more, and i agree, the iPad is FAR superior for casual content consumption. So I own both categories. And to that I add, my iPhone for making calls and texts, and now my AVP for multiple windows while sitting anywhere.

Same with me. And same with my wife who's an artist and uses her iPad for that as well as comfortable content consumption.

I'm also loving all the predicted AVP gloom-n-doom here. Another predicted flop like iPod/iPhone/iPad/Watch/AirPods/etc.

The good news is those people would never be hired by Apple having stunted imaginations.

 

[DeepWebinar]

Brain/computer interface is the only way forward. That way info between brain and device is direct and wont require this kind of bulky device as a “go between “

i’m not holding my breath for that one. musk and all the weird tech ghouls like him are gonna have to murder a lotttttt more monkeys before we have anything even close to as awful as the apple goggles

 

[DeepWebinar]

How is placing apps all over the place any quicker than wipping your phone out and looking up the same info in 2 seconds?

O wow i can walk to the fridge and look at a shopping list. How about just open the notes app on your phone?

or just have a piece of paper on your fridge. saves thousands and you don’t get a headache.

 

[AustinIllini]

This is definitely why I'm excited but not rushing to buy the product

 

[CrysisDeu]

I'm curious...for those of you who say "The VisionPro has no use case" but who also say "Call me when this is in the form of glasses and costs $500"...what is the use case you think you'll use it for then? I'm struggling to understand what you'd want from a pair of glasses that you wear all day?

There is sooooooooooo much more use case for a wearable you use 24/7. It’s not even in the same league.

It can be an AI assistant which you don’t need to pick up your iPhone and look down to get results.
It can be an image based search engine that won’t occupy any of your hands to hold.
It can be a real time translator what works all time, passively.
It can recognize music all the time.. again.
It can display navigation info in real life, with out you needing to pull your iPhone out.
You can find digital exhibits on street, that’s a new art medium for you.
It knows who you are talking with in noisy restaurants, and pass their voice directly to you through speakers.
You can apple pay with qr code by looking at the pos machine.
You can see menus, you can see food in 3D to know the portions.
…
…
There is so much you can achieve on a wearable device that lot of people can wear 24/7, compared to Vision Pro

 

[CrysisDeu]

I'm pretty sure this is the long term plan. As you say, my guess is they tried to get something like that out for the first gen and it wasn't the quality they wanted. But I would wager they will get there.

Nope, it will not get there.
iPhone, ipads, heck, Apple Watch , all get larger and heavier.
A lighter glass product is a different product that Vison Pro simply cannot iterate to

 

[ThisIsMike]

Late 2025 - when they do most of the new hardware - you’ll see Apple Vision, priced just under 2,000. That’s as low as Apple is going on this tech for a while. They just don’t price things inexpensively. I suppose $1500 is possible for the lowest storage, but I’d be (happily) surprised.

Then I think you’ll see the next gen Vision Pro in late 2026, and from there I expect they will alternate each year. So Vision and Vision Pro, each one will update every two years. Tick tock cycle.

Glasses should be late 2026-2027ish. That will likely work with the iPhone as the “base station” for processing like the watch originally did to manage the form factor.

 

[CrysisDeu]

One of the most enticing features about the Vision Pro is that you can literally run a giant screen of your Mac on it.

Only one screen, and maxed out at 4k.
You cannot pull Apps out of that screen
They didn’t even bother to pull the stage manager out from the screen.
The stage manager was so 3D I was convinced it would be pulled out when used in Vision Pro, but nope

 

[wigby]

So creating a photon takes a finite amount of energy. It doesnt miniaturize. And that energy will always take more than the heat of your eyes, and any battery that can contain that amount of energy you dont want sitting on your eyes.

so yes, i think the glasses idea will work, have my doubts about contacts. Ever.

There are working prototypes for contact lenses out there but I'm guessing anything for consumers are 20 years away. https://www.roadtovr.com/mojo-vision-smart-contact-lens-ar-hands-on/

 

[CrysisDeu]

Late 2025 - when they do most of the new hardware - you’ll see Apple Vision, priced just under 2,000. That’s as low as Apple is going on this tech for a while. They just don’t price things inexpensively. I suppose $1500 is possible for the lowest storage, but I’d be (happily) surprised.

Then I think you’ll see the next gen Vision Pro in late 2026, and from there I expect they will alternate each year. So Vision and Vision Pro, each one will update every two years. Tick tock cycle.

Glasses should be late 2026-2027ish. That will likely work with the iPhone as the “base station” like the watch originally did to manage the form factor.

I thought the glass was axed with Ive leaving

 

[CrysisDeu]

Ok so let’s be practical. It has an M2 and an additional processor in it, how are you going to offload that to an iPhone? Even if you put a TB port in the iPhone it’s not nearly fast enough. Even if it was fast enough,now you are going to require the latest fastest iPhone to make it work? It just doesn’t track at the end of the day

It doesn’t need to have an M2 to run iPad apps. And it didn’t even need to run iPad apps if the product strategy was different.
VP’s form and it’s hardware is limited by the set of features Apple implemented, but they might not be the correct set of requirements for AR glasses. We cannot assume Apple is correct on everything

 

[MilaM]

Has any device released by Apple ever 'replaced' a previous product line? You could maybe say that the iPod was replaced by the iPhone ... or maybe it was just an evolution. All other products have found different niches in my daily usage. I don't see anyone ditching the iPad or even a Macbook for an AVP.

And btw, I think the iPhone 6 (plus) was the first one with true mass appeal. Before that screens were just to small. Also TouchID!

 

[CrysisDeu]

Has any device released by Apple ever 'replaced' a previous product line? You could maybe say that the iPod was replaced by the iPhone ... or maybe it was just an evolution. All other products have found different niches in my daily usage. I don't see anyone ditching the iPad or even a Macbook for an AVP.

And btw, I think the iPhone 6 (plus) was the first one with true mass appeal. Before that screens were just to small. Also TouchID!

Oh iPhone definitely replaced the iPod.
It was a phone, an internet communication device, and an iPod
One of the reason it was successful because it can be a direct replacement of the best selling product of Apple at that time.

Apple watch replaced normal watches, which is something a lot of people already wear.
Airpods replaced earpods.

And now imagine a Vice President within Apple came to Tim Cook and said: I will build a spatial computer that will kill iPhone, iPad, mac and Apple TV.
They might be able to do it under Jobs, but not under Cook. They are afraid of iPad eating away Mac’s market share.

And of course there will be internal political reasons

 

[AlexESP]

When it has the same chip as my Macbook and costs more than a Macbook, it's gonna get compared to a Macbook.

Yes, you can compare it, but there are many more variables (cameras, screen, form factor...). I don't understand this trend of "it has an M2 so it must be like a Mac".

Strongly disagree, because with an iPad you're still locked to Safari, while on a Mac you can use any web engine, as well as plugins to make your web browsing a lot better, like being able to install UBlock Origin so you're not bombarded with intrusive ads like you are on iPad.



You would rather pay more for the worse experience. Please tell me how that makes sense

Very few people care about web engines. I can see it's relevant for you, but if Apple puts in a balance the benefits vs problems of enforcing WebKit, I think the decision is clear. About adblockers, to be honest, I've never had any problem without one, but you have many extensions if you need it. I will summarize why I prefer to browse (and more stuff) on the iPad in the next point.

And don't come to me like "it's a different form factor" when the iPad has been having an identity crisis trying to be a laptop replacement for years now. Just because it uses a touch screen doesn't instantly make it better when the overall software experience is objectively worse. And it's not just software, but hardware too. iPad hardware has also taken a downward spiral. Battery life has gotten worse even on the iPad Pros compared to the Macbook lineup that has x3 the battery life, the iPad has now had the headphone jack cut while the Mac still has it, hell vanilla iPads have a purposefully gimped USB-C port with slower transfer speeds because Apple.

It is really hard to justify getting anything other than a vanilla iPad anymore with how much worse iPads have become, and if you want proof of this just look at the quarterly financial reports. The Mac is making more revenue than the iPad quarter after quarter and the revenue gap has been growing larger. And once consumer model Apple Vision arrives, it's gonna get even worse for the iPad.

The iPad can* be a laptop replacement. Just like the iPhone can* also be a laptop replacement. And it doesn't need to be black or white; I prefer to do maybe 70% of my tasks on the iPad, and 30% on the Mac.

It's about both the form factor AND the software. It's completely subjective, but to me iPadOS is much more enjoyable and well-designed (from a functional point of view) than macOS: input is much more direct (i.e. no Menu bar), navigation is more intuitive, etc. And regarding form factor, I like how truly versatile it is: no matter if you're using it with the MK, without it, with pencil... the UI stays the same, you're not taken to a completely different mode (like with DeX). You can use Stage Manager in any format, whether it's with touch or mouse input. All that requires a lot of thoughtfulness.

But what baffles me is to read that "overall software experience is objectively worse". I can put myself in the shoes of those who prefer the macOS overall experience, is it so hard to see why millions of people prefer iPadOS? I think the fact that you're talking about the headphone jack or browser engines, while legitimate complains, explains why Apple usually gets priorities for 99% of the users better.

I think the iPad has done much better than the Mac in quarterly reports. Even with no models this year (!!!), it has outperformed the Mac 2 out of the 4 quarters. Taking a bigger picture: the iPad has performed better than the Mac since the pandemic, even if the Mac has received a complete overhaul with Apple Silicon. So this year we could see the iPad consistently surpass Mac's revenue.

The iPad has its downsides (as you mentioned, when it comes to battery, my MBP lasts way longer), but I enjoy using it much more than my Mac, so I'm not going to look for an equivalent-priced Mac when buying my next iPad.

 

[MorePixels]

this product is doomed until they can put in MorePixels™

 

[Ghost31]

Insane the amount of people here who will drop 5k on a laptop but are stunned at spending 3.5k on this. People spend money all the time. The pearl clutching is insane. How many people spend $1500 on a phone every year? Tons, upgrade programs are a huge selling point for providers. People spend hundreds or thousands on clothes and shoes regularly. You personally don’t think this is worth the money. I guarantee you’ve spent money on something that you could’ve gotten a just as useful less expensive version of, why would someone ever pay for a leather interior on their car when a cloth interior gets you to the same place at the same time for less money? The examples go on and on.

You may personally feel this expense isn’t worth it. That’s perfectly fine. I actually agree. But to assume that it’s absurd and no one would ever spend a few thousand dollars on something that wasn’t completely necessary is just being obtuse to get your takes out online.

If people are spending $5k on a laptop, it’s because it’s going to be a machine for serious work. Spending $4k on Vision Pro only to let you use a couple iPad apps is not even remotely the same. People are under the misguided idea “oh yeah it’s so expensive because it’s a MacBook on your face”. No. It’s not. Could you download Final Cut? Can you edit in logic? You can’t do anything but use it as a second screen for your already expensive Mac or look at a dinosaur demo

 

[CrysisDeu]

If people are spending $5k on a laptop, it’s because it’s going to be a machine for serious work. Spending $4k on Vision Pro only to let you use a couple iPad apps is not even remotely the same. People are under the misguided idea “oh yeah it’s so expensive because it’s a MacBook on your face”. No. It’s not. Could you download Final Cut? Can you edit in logic? You can’t do anything but use it as a second screen for your already expensive Mac or look at a dinosaur demo

Yeah it doesn’t even have photoshop or pixelmator pro
Even if it has final cut pro, it doesn’t have a data port

 

[AlexESP]

iPad has not defeated every tablet PC competitor and what Gurman and others are really getting at is iPad cannot compete with 2in1 devices.

A lot of people have an interest in being able to use an iPad in the same way as PC 2in1 offerings but can't due to ipadOS limitations. Apple is trying to market it towards that crowd by pairing with Magic Keyboard without success with exception to loyalists.

iPad doesn't need macOS, what it needs is something more than iOS fitted to a tablet screen, something between iOS and macOS that functions in the way that 2in1s do in the PC market.

The iPad has performed much better than those 2in1 in the market. Is this about narrative or actual numbers?

Also, I truly understand that some people want, in abstract, an "iPad in the same way as PC 2in1 offerings", but you can't take the upsides of an iPad, remove some of its core principles, and expect that you'll keep the upsides AND what you want. There is no possible such device. In that case, it would just become another 2in1 PC, and I bet it would suffer the same fate.

 

[MilaM]

The iPad has its downsides (as you mentioned, when it comes to battery, my MBP lasts way longer), but I enjoy using it much more than my Mac

The iPad is nice, as a consumption device. But I can't even write longer E-Mails with it, unless I attach a keyboard with a touchpad, because text manipulation with touch is just miserable. Also, multitasking is still a bad experience on iPadOS. And once you need to work with multiple files and data sources, just forget it. I have an iPad, but I only use it for reading articles and for very casual note taking.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

Vision Pro will run into the same ”problem” as the iPad…it doesn’t run macOS or work like a Mac. It will be declared a toy even though, like the iPad, you can get a lot of work done with it if you aren’t stuck in your old ways.

To me the iPad is far from being a toy. My iPad 1 paid itself a week later during a couple days, when it allowed me to do emergency support while on the road.
14 years later and while I do have several Macs, my primary work tool is my 12.9” iPad Pro M2.
I do a lot of diverse work with it including photo editing and restorations. That adds up to how valuable it is for me.
And that’s what I want the Vision Pro to be for me, but this time it may be a much longer road.

 

[AngstyKylo]

The iPad could have been a masterpiece if it ran Mac OS. It has 20 versions out there and still it's just a large iPhone. I use mine for flying and that's about it. Also run a pretty big YouTube review channel and not one time, ever, would I have even considered doing real music production or film editing on the iPad over my MacBook Pro. People say "well if you put macOS on iPad it'll run into Mac sales....so WHAT? IT GOES IN THE SAME POCKET, who cares, let it.
The iPad is, has been and always will be held back from any full potential as long as it runs a glorified iPhone OS. I don't even see a difference between just having a iPad Air vs a pro. Ah, yes, the camera ...which is still **** on both...

Well people buy an iPad and a Macbook rather than just one, even when they don't need it. Let's be honest, Apple knows how much expendable cash we all have and how to price and incrementally improve the products at the limits of what we'll spend.

 

[picpicmac]

That's according to well-connected Bloomberg reporter prolific rumor-monger Mark Gurman.

FTFY.

 

[ThisIsMike]

I thought the glass was axed with Ive leaving

I think they had to push the glasses further down the line because they can’t make it work yet in a way that they are happy with. But I definitely think they are heading there. Cook is far more interested in AR than VR. They want the least isolating option, and that is certainly less isolating than a headset.