Apple vs. Samsung Lawsuit Over iPhone Design Officially Reopened

[69Mustang]

Can't believe this is still going on ... Samsung released a phone that looked like the iPhone after the iPhone was released. Phones prior to the iPhone looked nothing like it in the marketplace.

Now as memory fades, the judgements become less and less in favor for the one that changed the marketplace. So ridiculous.

This has nothing to do with memory fading. Guilt or innocence was decided a long time ago. Samsung lost. This isn't about copying or stealing or any of the other seriously, seriously dumb stuff in this thread. This is about calculating damages. Do design patents deserve damage calculated based on full device profits? The answer is, imo, definitely no. It would be disastrous for the tech industry... Apple included. I have said, and continue to maintain, that Apple doesn't want to win this phase of the case. It hurts them and the industry far more than a $400 million damage award helps them.

Example: Apple steals, borrows, copies, is inspired by... whatever you want to call it, the Swiss Railway Clock design. That dispute was settled, but imagine if it wasn't. Should the Swiss Railway have sued, it's highly likely they would have won. Should the damages from that hypothetical case be calculated on the full device profits of the iPhone?

 

[Kagio]

Hey guys! One question:

I've been reading the Steve Jobs bio and this "stealing isn't right" put me thinking,

What was the arrangement between Apple and XEROX PARC in those times for when Apple coppied bitmapping, networking and object programing?

And, how did that arrangement (if there is any) make it so that it had a difference with what Bill Gates did when copying the same things from Apple for its software?

PLEASE!!! (???)

 

[69Mustang]

Unfortunately, due to the design copying, their children turned out looking like the products of inbreeding.
View attachment 683499

Rendered with Apple Maps 1.0

 

[MysteriousStain]

Only a lawyer would still care

 

[travelsheep]

"Apple's damages" ... I guess Tim Cook can't afford to pay rent and has to sleep in his used car?

 

[Duane Martin]

Hey guys! One question:

I've been reading the Steve Jobs bio and this "stealing isn't right" put me thinking,

What was the arrangement between Apple and XEROX PARC in those times for when Apple coppied bitmapping, networking and object programing?

And, how did that arrangement (if there is any) make it so that it had a difference with what Bill Gates did when copying the same things from Apple for its software?

PLEASE!!! (???)

The answer to both of these questions is well documented and the fact that you are asking it on MacRumors means you are not aware how much this site has become a magnet for trolls or you just like baiting them (which, admittedly, has a certain entertainment value).

Here is a very well researched article about the famous "Jobs visit to Xerox PARC". Here is an article about the Mac OS vs. Windows issue.

There is no single sentence answer to any of these issues however it is worth noting what seems to be escaping most posters on this forum that it has already been decided that Samsung blatantly copied the iPhone, it is simply a matter of damages.

 

[jstorm01]

Only thing Samsung did copy was the 30 pin connector cable they were very similar to apples .

 

[mi7chy]

Another reason why this lawsuit should be thrown out and Apple fined because they defrauded the FTC by stealing ideas from smaller companies and claiming as their own. For example, slide-to-unlock was stolen from Neonode, Apple's patent was then invalidated and the feature was silently removed from iOS 10 with a hush fee.

Skip to 4:00

http://www.neonode.com/apples-slide-to-unlock-patent-invalidated-by-top-german-court/

http://www.beemonpatents.com/2016/0...bout-apple-slide-to-unlock-patent-vs-samsung/

 

[I7guy]

Another reason why this lawsuit should be thrown out and Apple fined because they defrauded the FTC by stealing ideas from smaller companies and claiming as their own. For example, slide-to-unlock was stolen from Neonode, Apple's patent was then invalidated and the feature was silently removed from iOS 10 with a hush fee.

Skip to 4:00

http://www.neonode.com/apples-slide-to-unlock-patent-invalidated-by-top-german-court/

http://www.beemonpatents.com/2016/0...bout-apple-slide-to-unlock-patent-vs-samsung/

Wishful thinking is not going to invalidate this.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

It is not illegal to copy ideas. It I only illegal when you copy patented ideas and we have seen many of Apple's patents ruled invalid.

I know what you mean, but just for the record you can't patent an "idea."

 

[Applestock]

This has nothing to do with memory fading. Guilt or innocence was decided a long time ago. Samsung lost. This isn't about copying or stealing or any of the other seriously, seriously dumb stuff in this thread. This is about calculating damages. Do design patents deserve damage calculated based on full device profits? The answer is, imo, definitely no. It would be disastrous for the tech industry... Apple included. I have said, and continue to maintain, that Apple doesn't want to win this phase of the case. It hurts them and the industry far more than a $400 million damage award helps them.

Example: Apple steals, borrows, copies, is inspired by... whatever you want to call it, the Swiss Railway Clock design. That dispute was settled, but imagine if it wasn't. Should the Swiss Railway have sued, it's highly likely they would have won. Should the damages from that hypothetical case be calculated on the full device profits of the iPhone?

I agree with your argument, but the other problem here is that we're ignoring missed profits and bought time in the market. What Samsung did was sell iPhone copycats at much much lower margin than Apple does, which means that the missed profit opportunity for Apple was potentially much higher. The other thing that these calculations do not account for is that Samsung's steeling enabled them to stay alive and competitive in the market for years until they could figure out how to work around the patents and create their own iconic phone design. It's impossible to predict exactly what would have happened in the parallel universe where Samsung didn't copy Apple, but I suspect Apple would be sitting on $50 - $100 billion more in cash.

 

[Closingracer]

This is the reason I will not buy products from Samsung. They are copy cats.

Than Apple should sue every company out there because all or if not most are rectangles and rounded corners....

 

[mac_in_tosh]

I can't comment on the details or legalities of this case, nor am I criticizing Apple for following up on it. If they have a legitimate beef with Samsung then it is their responsibility to pursue the case.

What I find interesting, however, is how some people use it to validate their concept of Apple as being innovative while Samsung, Microsoft, etc. just copy what Apple does. They all copy what they can from each other. Just google "iPhone features/ideas Apple stole/copied."

 

[Kagio]

Omg what a complicated person. You think I don't know ANY of the things you open with? You think Im here cause this site has the word "rumos" in it?

God.

I know its documented, I felt lazy to read more into detail and supposed someone here could stablish a short sentence for each question. 'Just found ironic that Apple might have an air of this practice in its roots. Thanks for those links,
[doublepost=1484337342][/doublepost]

The answer to both of these questions is well documented and the fact that you are asking it on MacRumors means you are not aware how much this site has become a magnet for trolls or you just like baiting them (which, admittedly, has a certain entertainment value).

Here is a very well researched article about the famous "Jobs visit to Xerox PARC". Here is an article about the Mac OS vs. Windows issue.

There is no single sentence answer to any of these issues however it is worth noting what seems to be escaping most posters on this forum that it has already been decided that Samsung blatantly copied the iPhone, it is simply a matter of damages.

Omg what a complicated person. You think I don't know ANY of the things you open with? You think Im here cause this site has the word "rumos" in it?

God.

I know its documented, I felt lazy to read more into detail and supposed someone here could stablish a short sentence for each question. 'Just found ironic that Apple might have an air of this practice in its roots. Thanks for those links,

 

[true god]

Really glad Apple didn't invent the wheel.

 

[Atlantico]

Good grief. This again. Must be a slow news day.

 

[leroypants]

This is the reason I will not buy products from Samsung. They are copy cats.

Do a quick search and see how many Samsung components are in an iPhone before you buy another....
[doublepost=1484337703][/doublepost]

Maybe (Karl Benz) Mercedes-Benz should now sue every automobile manufacturer that ever created a gas-powered automobile that followed the Velo in 1894? This whole case between Apple and Samsung just seems so silly today as EVERY smartphone manufacturer for the past six years produces a device that is based on the original iPhone in terms basic design and function.

That was the danger if Apple won all their lawsuits, the end goal for Apple was to be the only company allowed to manufacture smartphone with a rectangular screen with rounded corners.

 

[44267547]

This is the reason I will not buy products from Samsung. They are copy cats.

Samsung copy whoever they want on the market. That's not the reason I will purchase Samsung phones, they just don't make a superior product to Apple. In my opinion .

 

[elmaco]

Still valid

More like this:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/102317767/Samsung-Relative-Evaluation-Report-on-S1-iPhone

 

[Closingracer]

Samsung copy whoever they want on the market. That's not the reason I will purchase Samsung phones, they just don't make a superior product to Apple. In my opinion .

Eh I think the Samsung Galaxy Tab s2 is superior to Apple ipads sans battery life

 

[44267547]

Eh I think the Samsung Galaxy Tab s2 is superior to Apple ipads sans battery life

I can't contest to that. But is just my opinion. Samsung makes a decent tablet.

 

[Closingracer]

I can't contest to that. But is just my opinion. Samsung makes a decent tablet.

I love Android and ios but honestly the only thing convincing me to get an iPad is the fact I have an iPhone, watch and a Macbook Pro

 

[44267547]

I love Android and ios but honestly the only thing convincing me to get an iPad is the fact I have an iPhone, watch and a Macbook Pro

That's probably the main reason I stay with Apple. As I have so many of their products in my household. The ecosystem really does work seamlessly and handoff is very convenient.

 

[apolloa]

Norman Foster, and over 100 other top designers​

filed an amicus brief​

in support of Apple, arguing the iPhone maker is entitled to all profits Samsung has earned from infringing designs. They cited a 1949 study showing more than 99% of Americans could identify a bottle of Coca-Cola by shape alone.​

Article Link: Apple vs. Samsung Lawsuit Over iPhone Design Officially Reopened

Yes you can claim a design is yours like these designers are setting, however it's frankly laughably ridiculous to even attempt to claim you have patented a 'rectangular front face with rounded edges'! I have always had issue with that one...

Roll on to today and if Apple copy's Samsung with a curved edge screen, it will be interesting to see the response Samsung makes.

 

[gnasher729]

Yes stealing isn't right, how dare you steal rectangular shapes and rounded corners? Please this so ridiculous, by this metric Apple stole phablet idea from Samsung, and Samsung should sue right?

Yes you can claim a design is yours like these designers are setting, however it's frankly laughably ridiculous to even attempt to claim you have patented a 'rectangular front face with rounded edges'! I have always had issue with that one....

It probably has to repeated every few years... Apple has design patents for the iPhone 3 design, which consist of half a dozen very specific design parts, of which two are rectangular shapes and rounded corners. You only infringe on a design patent if you copy _everything_, not just one or two bits. At the same time Samsung had design patents for phones with rectangular shapes and rounded corners (and half a dozen other things and a very specific shape of the rounded corners and so on). Samsung could have just released a phone that matched Samsung's own design patents, and everything would have been fine. Instead they released a phone that matched Apple's design patents.
[doublepost=1484340116][/doublepost]

Maybe (Karl Benz) Mercedes-Benz should now sue every automobile manufacturer that ever created a gas-powered automobile that followed the Velo in 1894? This whole case between Apple and Samsung just seems so silly today as EVERY smartphone manufacturer for the past six years produces a device that is based on the original iPhone in terms basic design and function.

Look at any Samsung phone since Galaxy 2 or Galaxy 3 (not sure which one changed the design), and they look nothing like an iPhone 3. Look at any iPhone since iPhone 4 and they look nothing like an iPhone 3.
[doublepost=1484340371][/doublepost]

That was the danger if Apple won all their lawsuits, the end goal for Apple was to be the only company allowed to manufacture smartphone with a rectangular screen with rounded corners.

There was no danger of that whatsoever. But no other manufacturer can make phones that look like an iPhone 3 (and the one manufacturer that did was found guilty). As the market has shown since, there are gazillions of different designs. For example, Samsung has various design patents for phones with rectangular screen and rounded corners - they just don't look like the iPhone 3.

Roll on to today and if Apple copy's Samsung with a curved edge screen, it will be interesting to see the response Samsung makes.

It doesn't matter what Samsung phones look like, what matters is Samsung's design patents (and they do have design patents for their phones). Unless Apple copies the complete design, like Samsung did, they are find. Copying the curved edge screen is legal as long as you make the phone look different in other ways.