Apple Working on 'Improved' Security System for iPhone 8 That Replaces Touch ID With Facial Recognition

[oldmacs]

eg... frequently my hands are wet, so Touch ID will not work..... i need to unlock my phone but now can't because Apple passcode doesn't come up all the time/at all.

What about all the situations where face recognition isn't going to work?

Touch ID is the best thing they've done on iPhones, I can't believe they'd do away with it. Facial recognition with Touch ID as a fall back, yes but not as a complete replacement.

 

[kdarling]

People get trapped in old paradigms, where something must always happen at the same way or time as before.

Who says our face has to be visible for user authentication at the instant of payment? Heck, that's not even a requirement now on the Watch, or even on the phone if we prime TouchId ahead of time in Wallet.

Likewise, if facial recog was always checking, then it could also be primed ahead of time.

Now you might say, but oh that's (marginally) less secure. Which ignores the fact that it was never really about true authentication or security. If it were, we'd have to personally register our prints at a bank, not just allow anyone with the phone's passcode to do do. Or even use a fingerprint sensor that can be spoofed with fake prints.

It's always also been about convenience, while being "secure enough" in the overwhelming majority of cases.

Just thinking aloud. I totally agree that it would be much less optimal for those who are used to doing this straight out of a pocket, without ever looking at the phone. Hmm. Unless it assumed that coming out of the same dark pocket where it went in preauthorized, means it still should be preauthorized. Yeah, I don't love that idea either. I'm starting to lean towards the pro-touch crowd

 

[WatchFromAfar]

Completely different.

Removing Touch ID is such a terrible idea, so many of the times I unlock my phone it is not directly in front of me.
[doublepost=1499167329][/doublepost]More and more I feel like the iPhone 6S and SE are the best phones Apple will ever make...

It's not different, it's Apple killing the past to make way for the future. It's only different in people's minds because they love the feature and can't imagine anything better. At least wait and see how good 3D facial recognition is before dismissing it based on the failings of what came before it. It might be terrible and ruin Apple (but I doubt it).

People will have to modify their behavior with regards to unlocking their phones and yes I agree the SE is such an underrated, capable phone.

 

[oldmacs]

It's not different, it's Apple killing the past to make way for the future. It's only different in people's minds because they love the feature and can't imagine anything better. At least wait and see how good 3D facial recognition is before dismissing it based on the failings of what came before it. It might be terrible and ruin Apple (but I doubt it).

It is different, it ruins half the ultity of Touch ID. I'd say half the time I unlock my phone it isn't facing my face. Of course it won't ruin Apple. People will buy the iPhone regardless of what they put out. They could rebadge the 3GS as a new phone and it would sell.

 

[zoomp]

The police can ask you for your passcode or fingerprint now anyway. If you refuse, you're asking for trouble as their suspicions will raise.

And cover your face up if you're that threatened?

Incredible how people just assumed a position so submissive to power. Don't you realize asking to access your phone is the same as entering your house without a warranty? They would have access to your bank account, the pictures of your kids, your LP records, all of your diaries while growing up. Personal things that could make a case against yourself.

 

[torana355]

This thread is hilarious!!! Firstly you do realise that Fingerprint scanners are on the back of most Android phones and Android/Samsung pay works just fine like that. Secondly did you not stop to think Apple may have developed a very good facial recognition system? Apple will release this phone and you will all buy it, not only that you will all love it. Now quit your whinging.

 

[deany]

This thread is hilarious!!! Firstly you do realise that Fingerprint scanners are on the back of most Android phones and Android/Samsung pay works just fine like that. Secondly did you not stop to think Apple may have developed a very good facial recognition system? Apple will release this phone and you will all buy it, not only that you will all love it. Now quit your whinging.

Well if this article is true, and I believe it is http://www.phonearena.com/news/Why-...-with-the-on-screen-tech-by-Synaptics_id91942 then Samsung rushed the rear finger print sensor.

I really cant see apple the largest company in the world, 6 months approx on, not learning from this.

It would be 'naff' quite frankly.

Touch id wont be on the back of apples flagship product.

 

[torana355]

Well if this article is true, and I believe it is http://www.phonearena.com/news/Why-...-with-the-on-screen-tech-by-Synaptics_id91942 then Samsung rushed the rear finger print sensor.

I really cant see apple the largest company in the world, 6 months approx on, not learning from this.

It would be 'naff' quite frankly.

Touch id wont be on the back of apples flagship product.

Yes that article is correct, there are still issues with putting the sensor behind the screen or both Samsung and Apple would have gone that route. For the time being Samsung placed it on the back just like numerous other Android phones like the Pixel. Im telling you the there is a very real chance it will be on the back of the iPhone aswell, if not Apple will move completely to Facial recognition.

 

[johngordon]

I think the key thing is in how well it is implemented. My gut says that TouchID is as good as it gets in terms of convenience and security. Even if they have TouchID embedded in the screen, we'll still lose the tactile element of the position where to place the finger. (Assuming it is limited to specific, similarly sized part of the screen.)

If people do have it down to a fine art, straight out of the pocket, then facial recognition will almost certainly be less effective, and a bit more inconvenient. Its all first world problems of course, but where the two options exist, its only natural to have a preference.

 

[deany]

Yes that article is correct, there are still issues with putting the sensor behind the screen or both Samsung and Apple would have gone that route. For the time being Samsung placed it on the back just like numerous other Android phones like the Pixel. Im telling you the there is a very real chance it will be on the back of the iPhone aswell, if not apple will move completely to Facial recognition.

I think you've found the solution to the problem!

 

[johngordon]

It's not different, it's Apple killing the past to make way for the future. It's only different in people's minds because they love the feature and can't imagine anything better. At least wait and see how good 3D facial recognition is before dismissing it based on the failings of what came before it. It might be terrible and ruin Apple (but I doubt it).

People will have to modify their behavior with regards to unlocking their phones and yes I agree the SE is such an underrated, capable phone.

I agree it depends on the implementation, but its hard to imagine positioning the phone in front of your face after you pick it up as being more convenient than placing your finger over your phone as you pick it up.

But if it is super quick, and isn't too fussy about the angle, and is virtually the same as the way it wakes when you pick it up, then it may well be very impressive.

 

[Omega Mac]

Let me further predict that the introduction of faceID will be an added layer not a replacement for TID.

This opens up to the possibility of the follwoing on the iPhone8 (and possibly others) which will most likely be user definable.

A) TID+FID - Two factor unlock, two in person
B) TID+FID+AW. - Three factor unlock, two in person, one device
C) TID+FID+aW+IPad, - four factor authentication, two face and two devices.

Once you get to four factor you could essentially have any other device. It might be overkill but it's to illustrate the point. Apple have developed this sensibility with the Apple watch if I am not mistaken in that it compares a number of factors to unlock you macbook from the watch. A broader roll out with new functions and factors added would not be surprising in this context.

 

[deany]

Let me further predict that the introduction of faceID will be an added layer not a replacement for TID.

This opens up to the possibility of the follwoing on the iPhone8 (and possibly others) which will most likely be user definable.

A) TID+FID - Two factor unlock, two in person
B) TID+FID+AW. - Three factor unlock, two in person, one device
C) TID+FID+aW+IPad, - four factor authentication, two face and two devices.

Once you get to four factor you could essentially have any other device. It might be overkill but it's to illustrate the point. Apple have developed this sensibility with the Apple watch if I am not mistaken in that it compares a number of factors to unlock you macbook from the watch. A broader roll out with new functions and factors added would not be surprising in this context.

Totally agree. But if the TID behind screen technology isn't available yet then your formulas dont add up unfortunately.

 

[EsmeraldaDoll]

Tim Cook said that when Apple is ready, their technology, there’s NO HOLDING BACK!!! & this unlocking with your face/eyes etc WORKS even when on the table flat. Did y’all not read the article ? All y’all getting paid my Samsung to post on here? Sack ma tatas!!!!!!

 

[SoundJudgment]

So...if the police have your phone and want to unlock it they just point it at your face now?

Better than the chopping off of your finger(s).

 

[Jsameds]

I think they should have both.

Have facial recognition to unlock your notification screen and then TouchID on top of that in order to fully unlock the phone.

 

[loueed]

Apple is using IR sensors and lights on the front of the phone which could create a detailed 3D depth map of the users face in less than 100miliseconds. The brightness of the face wouldn't affect the tech because its mainly examining the shape and depth of your face.

If Apple has a wide enough lens then the tech to validate the user from on a desk or while it's being woken for Apple pay. Apple will ditch TouchID if they have a superior solution. I just hope people(police) can't point your phone at your face to unlock it :/

 

[SteveJobs2.0]

What a security nightmare. Now owners stand no chance of refusing to unlock when under duress.

Just make a face to fool the system. What will they do? Force you to turn your frown upside down?

 

[menithings]

Face detection can rival fingerprint scanning. Here's how...

Front facing 3D cameras (that work in the dark) securely detect your face at multiple distances and wide angles. No need to adjust the phone distance. If you can see the screen, iPhone sees your face. That coupled with smart motion detection and AI means iPhone knows it's you the moment you pick up the device.

The result is a 'magical' user experience:

- Lift your phone and it instantly unlocks.

- At retail terminals iPhone detects NFC and lights up an Apple Pay branded virtual home button. The experience is identical to TouchID, but clearer.

- Apple Pay online/App Store is even simpler. Just buy your item. The phone already knows it's you.

That's it. Easier and faster than TouchID.

Old timers would have the option of a 'traditional' screen unlock where they rest a finger on the home button. The rest would use the new instant unlock method.

So all this negativity about iPhone 8 losing TouchID may sound silly in a couple months.

If anyone can pull this off it's Apple.

 

[johnnyturbouk]

I've got a bad feeling about this - lol

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

What if we use our iPhone in the night and if we have a black skin ? ;(

Infrared

 

[deany]

Face detection can rival fingerprint scanning. Here's how...

Front facing 3D cameras (that work in the dark) securely detect your face at multiple distances and wide angles. No need to adjust the phone distance. If you can see the screen, iPhone sees your face. That coupled with smart motion detection and AI means iPhone knows it's you the moment you pick up the device.

The result is a 'magical' user experience:

- Lift your phone and it instantly unlocks.

- At retail terminals iPhone detects NFC and lights up an Apple Pay branded virtual home button. The experience is identical to TouchID, but clearer.

- Apple Pay online/App Store is even simpler. Just buy your item. The phone already knows it's you.

That's it. Easier and faster than TouchID.

Old timers would have the option of a 'traditional' screen unlock where they rest a finger on the home button. The rest would use the new instant unlock method.

So all this negativity about iPhone 8 losing TouchID may sound silly in a couple months.

If anyone can pull this off it's Apple.

What if I'm walking along the road and a petty thief grabs my (locked) phone out of my hand and sticks it in my face and runs off?

 

[HoosBruce]

No Touch ID combined with forcing us to use Facial Recognition for authentication is a big NOPE for me. This seems unlikely to happen, but rumors from these sources this late are scary.

 

[djbuddha]

I believe apple pay will just use the same process and will just scan your face and pay that way. Not sure it matters how it’s done will affect banks.

It affects them as their rate of pay & overall agreement is based on trust that the technology provides a secure path to the end-user's money.

If it didn't matter how it was done, Apple & Android Pay would be absolutely everywhere by now.

 

[Omega Mac]

Totally agree. But if the TID behind screen technology isn't available yet then your formulas dont add up unfortunately.

It is ready.