Apple Working on 'Improved' Security System for iPhone 8 That Replaces Touch ID With Facial Recognition

[Bart Kela]

There are a lot of misguided readers here.

Touch ID is an authentication method. Apple Pay is a payment system. The two can (and often) work together, but aren't reliant on the other for functionality. You can use a passcode for Apple Pay if you choose to (there's an Apple support document that I quoted elsewhere that covers this).

Facial recognition would be another authentication method, in addition to passcodes, Touch ID, and the Apple Watch side button double-click that is used for Apple Pay.

Apple Pay uses NFC for the transmission of secure transaction data for a transaction. Apple Pay just needs some sort of authentication to send that transaction data.

You are not required to use Touch ID for Apple Pay although many people choose to use the fingerprint authentication method over passcodes because it is more convenient and arguably more secure.

 

[omarmagdi]

I do not think Apple could do this, since TouchID is well integrated in the system, security, payments, confirmations within apps, and many other things.

Apple does stupid things sometimes, just not thaaat stupid.

PS: Stupid means things the "tech community" doesn't like because they know better than the people who brought us the Mac, iPod and iPhone

 

[deany]

There are a lot of misguided readers here.

Touch ID is an authentication method. Apple Pay is a payment system. The two can (and often) work together, but aren't reliant on the other for functionality. You can use a passcode for Apple Pay if you choose to (there's an Apple support document that I quoted elsewhere that covers this).

Facial recognition would be another authentication method, in addition to passcodes, Touch ID, and the Apple Watch side button double-click that is used for Apple Pay.

Apple Pay uses NFC for the transmission of secure transaction data for a transaction. Apple Pay just needs some sort of authentication to send that transaction data.

You are not required to use Touch ID for Apple Pay although many people choose to use the fingerprint authentication method over passcodes because it is more convenient and arguably more secure.

Thanks, so we all know now that FaceID will have a pin option, as per usual.

So how do you suppose if someone gets nicked and the Copper shoves the iPhone in his face to access to data?

Quote the 5th Ammendment?

Apple wont want the hassle.

 

[DLynzz]

Following a report from analyst Ming-Chi Kuo suggesting the next-generation "iPhone 8" will do away with a Touch ID fingerprint sensor entirely, Bloomberg says Apple is working on an "improved" security system that will let customers unlock their iPhones and make Apple Pay payments with facial recognition technology.

Apple's new facial recognition engine is powered by a 3D sensor rumored to be built into the front-facing camera, and according to Bloomberg's sources, Apple is also said to be testing eye scanning to "augment the system." Using facial recognition, the iPhone can be unlocked within a few hundred milliseconds and it allegedly works even when the device is lying on a table. It's said to capture more data points than a fingerprint scan, making it more secure than Touch ID.

iPhone 8 dummy shared by OnLeaks and Tiger Mobiles​

Samsung built a similar feature, iris scanning, into its Galaxy S8, which has not proven to be foolproof. Hackers have successfully bypassed the feature using a printed photo with a contact lens on top of it, and in a video, a launch version of the S8 was shown being fooled by a photograph alone.

Apple's solution is said to be more secure because it is using 3D depth perception, preventing it from being bypassed by 2D pictures.

Bloomberg warns that the feature is "still being tested" and that Apple could have decided to nix it, so it continues to be unclear if the iPhone 8 will indeed do away with Touch ID entirely in favor of facial recognition.

Rumors surrounding Touch ID in the iPhone 8 have been all over the place during the course of the last few months. Apple was rumored to be having difficulty embedding the Touch ID fingerprint sensor under the display of the device and explored other solutions including a rear Touch ID button, but the company's final solution remains up in the air. What we do know is that the most recent dummy models and part leaks show a display without a Touch ID button, suggesting it's either under the display or non-existent.

Today's report also includes a quick mention that Apple is testing faster displays with ProMotion technology for the iPhone 8. ProMotion display technology, which features a 120Hz refresh rate for improvements to motion and animations, was first introduced in 2017 iPad Pro models.

Article Link: Apple Working on 'Improved' Security System for iPhone 8 That Replaces Touch ID With Facial Recognition

I HOPE this is not true! Multiple times in the night, I place my finger on my phone, as it lays in the nightstand, phone to check the time. The screen is set to its dimmest setting so as not to disturb my better half. I do not want to have to pick up the phone, ensure it's pointed correctly at my now 1/2 awake face, had the screen illuminate, all to check the time. There are a number of other reasons, many already discussed, as to why this would not be a good idea! Seems these days, Aplle is just innovating for the sake of innovating, not to make their products the best option for users.

 

[LordVic]

I HOPE this is not true! Multiple times in the night, I place my finger on my phone, as it lays in the nightstand, phone to check the time. The screen is set to its dimmest setting so as not to disturb my better half. I do not want to have to pick up the phone, ensure it's pointed correctly at my now 1/2 awake face, had the screen illuminate, all to check the time. There are a number of other reasons, many already discussed, as to why this would not be a good idea! Seems these days, Aplle is just innovating for the sake of innovating, not to make their products the best option for users.

but, there's a clock on the lockscreen...

you don't need to unlock it to see the clock. you just need to press a button. And it's quite possible that while there's no fingerprint sensor homebutton, that there will still be a "home" area of the display to press to mimmick the homebutton.

 

[Packers1958]

If they get rid of touch id, they will get hammered by the media and consumers. So I am outside in the sun with sunglasses on, listening to music, and if i want to check my phone, I have to take off my sunglasses, pick up the phone, put it in front of my face, just to unlock it. Even Samsung wasn't that stupid.

 

[ValO]

I HOPE this is not true! Multiple times in the night, I place my finger on my phone, as it lays in the nightstand, phone to check the time. The screen is set to its dimmest setting so as not to disturb my better half. I do not want to have to pick up the phone, ensure it's pointed correctly at my now 1/2 awake face, had the screen illuminate, all to check the time. There are a number of other reasons, many already discussed, as to why this would not be a good idea! Seems these days, Aplle is just innovating for the sake of innovating, not to make their products the best option for users.

You are stating problems that you would have in the same old conditions but without touchid. You would have to see the whole picture.
I for one don' t believe apple will remove touchid completely this year.
But if they would and would have a a very advanced 3d facial recog camera , what would be the problem? If you want to know the time you would have to look at the iphone, wouldn' t you?
If apple uses oled, it could display a permanent on-screen button or the outline of a button, even when the rest of the screen is all black. You press it, and very fast the facial recog kicks in, unlocks the iphone, displays time, etc. I don' t see the problem. I only see a problem with (in) app purchases and with using apple pay.
With (in) app purchases how to prevent me from making wrong and accidental purchases, and with apple pay, i don' t want to look at the screen/camera all the time.
So i see apple placing touchid in the powerbutton or the apple logo , just for those purposes. But for just unlocking the iphone, i think touchid is not a necessity and it will be a coorporation between the onscreen(always on?) button and facial recog. Press the button and in milliseconds the frontcamera will scan, authenticate and unlock, even if your face is not exactly in front of the camera.

 

[Pentium]

I think they found their golden egg.
They will implement a sucky facial recognition, but the iPhone anniversary edition will come bundled with a "special limited edition Apple Watch".

Which will be sold separately

 

[Packers1958]

Apple's new motto "We innovate to become obsolete"

 

[ValO]

If they get rid of touch id, they will get hammered by the media and consumers. So I am outside in the sun with sunglasses on, listening to music, and if i want to check my phone, I have to take off my sunglasses, pick up the phone, put it in front of my face, just to unlock it. Even Samsung wasn't that stupid.

perhaps you can store multiple scans, one with and one without sunglasses. Just like you can store multiple fingerprints now.
It really won' t be a problem then. Even without the eyes everyone has unique features(ears, nose, chin, measurements, etc). And no, apple isn' t as stupid as samsung is. To unlock the s8, you would have to look at the back of the phone first instead of the front to find the fingerprint scanner, to unlock the phone. Lol

 

[KeanosMagicHat]

Don't underestimate the power of advertising here people. Once the Apple ads start rolling showing happy iPhone X owners (or actors as they are) unlocking their phones by just looking at them, combined with the spin of how, in Apple's eyes, it's more secure than a fingerprint - the masses will be mesmerised and it'll sell by the bucketload - again.

Only tech geeks like ourselves really care about this stuff.

Oh and by the way, the first "ad" will no doubt be a video during the keynote.

Not to mention the articles that will be "placed" in the tech press commenting on the rumours in the run up to launch about how secure it's expected to be etc.

 

[Packers1958]

perhaps you can store multiple scans, one with and one without sunglasses. Just like you can store multiple fingerprints now.
It really won' t be a problem then. Even without the eyes everyone has unique features(ears, nose, chin, measurements, etc). And no, apple isn' t as stupid as samsung is. To unlock the s8, you would have to look at the back of the phone first instead of the front to find the fingerprint scanner, to unlock the phone. Lol

I highly doubt people will want to do this. Every time someone gets a new pair of glasses or sunglasses, they are going to have to go into settings, and do another facial scan? Or if a guy decides to grow a moustache or beard, he will have to go back into settings and do another facial scan? That's unacceptable. I only have to enter my fingerprints once and not have to keep updating.

At least Samsung give you the choice. Taking away the choice is just stupid.

 

[ValO]

Don't underestimate the power of advertising here people. Once the Apple ads start rolling showing happy iPhone 8 owners (or actors as they are) unlocking their phones by just looking at them, combined with the spin of how, in Apple's eyes, it's more secure than a fingerprint - the masses will be mesmerised and it'll sell by the bucketload - again.

Only tech geeks like ourselves really care about this stuff.

Sorry, but it is too easy, to say that is up to marketing of apple. If it doesn' t work properly and is not a safe way of authentication, and an easy subject of fraud it will be shot down, and apple will suffer big.
Apple won' t and can' t just rely on marketing for this one.

 

[Packers1958]

Don't underestimate the power of advertising here people. Once the Apple ads start rolling showing happy iPhone 8 owners (or actors as they are) unlocking their phones by just looking at them, combined with the spin of how, in Apple's eyes, it's more secure than a fingerprint - the masses will be mesmerised and it'll sell by the bucketload - again.

Only tech geeks like ourselves really care about this stuff.

Oh and by the way, the first "ad" will no doubt be a video during the keynote.

Not to mention the articles that will be "placed" in the tech press commenting on the rumours in the run up to launch about how secure it's expected to be etc.

Or until the reviews come out, or the complaints come in at how much of a pain the phone is to use because of no touchID.

 

[apolloa]

Went to the Apple store today, and played with the 7 Plus, think I'll get that once the new ones are out so it's cheaper. I like Touch ID, and I'm not paying £1000 for a phone! I don't like the idea of this face unlocking stuff.

I also now want the 10.5" iPad Pro and the Apple Watch haha...

 

[Packers1958]

And Apple will be made to look like a fool next spring for dropping touch ID, when Samsung comes out with touch ID built into the screen.

 

[ValO]

I highly doubt people will want to do this. Every time someone gets a new pair of glasses or sunglasses, they are going to have to go into settings, and do another facial scan? Or if a guy decides to grow a moustache or beard, he will have to go back into settings and do another facial scan? That's unacceptable. I only have to enter my fingerprints once and not have to keep updating.

At least Samsung give you the choice. Taking away the choice is just stupid.

You really don' t understand facial recog, don' t you? How do you think that security on airports work? A terrorist wears sunglasses or grows a moustache, and he can get through security? That is not the way it works.
Perhaps with samsung, but then again their facial recog works with a flat picture and their irisscanner works with a foto of the iris.

 

[KeanosMagicHat]

Sorry, but it is too easy, to say that is up to marketing of apple. If it doesn' t work properly and is not a safe way of authentication, and an easy subject of fraud it will be shot down, and apple will suffer big.
Apple won' t and can' t just rely on marketing for this one.

I think you'll be surprised, I've already seen two articles, one from a major business news provider and one from a longstanding large tech news publication that are already gushing about how the "world's first smartphone 3D facial authentication" will be ever so secure.

It's highly possible that Ming has let the cat out of the bag here and the quest to convince the public has already begun.

 

[Packers1958]

You really don' t understand facial recog, don' t you? How do you think that security on airports work? A terrorist wears sunglasses or grows a moustache, and he can get through security? That is not the way it works.
Perhaps with samsung, but then again their facial recog works with a flat picture and their irisscanner works with a foto of the iris.

No it's called a passport. That's how they catch them coming into the country. They are placed on a terror watchlist. It's not facial recognition software. You are watching too many James Bond movies.

 

[ValO]

I think you'll be surprised, I've already seen two articles, one from a major business news provider and one from a longstanding large tech news publication that are already gushing about how the "world's first smartphone 3D facial authentication" will be ever so secure.

It's highly possible that Ming has let the cat out of the bag here and the quest to convince the public has already begun.

You don' t understand. Apple will never take that risk. If you think that, you don' t know how apple operates. This is about billions in claims, layabilities and in risk of not being the mist safe/secure brand anymore. So if there is a risk according to apple it will have touchid.
[doublepost=1499197862][/doublepost]

No it's called a passport. That's how they catch them coming into the country. They are placed on a terror watchlist. It's not facial recognition software. You are watching too many James Bond movies.

Yes, sure, and you can' t get fake passports, come on. All international airports, etc are full of facial recog tech. I know from first hand. I can' t tell you more, otherwise, i would have to kill you after... lol

 

[KeanosMagicHat]

Or until the reviews come out, or the complaints come in at how much of a pain the phone is to use because of no touchID.

Is it really going to be a pain though? My main concern is security versus TouchID, not usability.

(and it is a real concern for me so I remain a supporter of below screen TouchID until convinced otherwise)

I suspect they've already cracked the low light angle with this tech otherwise they wouldn't introduce it and most of the other complaints I've read on this thread centre around fringe situations such as, "what if I'm wearing a scuba mask?" or, "what if it's Halloween?" etc.

The biggest inconvenience people may experience is having to take their sunglasses / reading glasses off for a second.

Having said that, if you wear glasses a lot, couldn't they allow you to have a couple of "facial profiles" in the same way that they allow you to have multiple fingerprints at the moment?

In fact, taking this proposition further, it's possible they may allow for you to authorise multiple people to unlock your phone should you wish, Wife, Kids etc.

Depends on how sophisticated an integration Apple can perform.

If not, for those fringe situations, there's always the passcode.

 

[Packers1958]

You don' t understand. Apple will never take that risk. If you think that, you don' t know how apple operates. This is about billions in claims, layabilities and in risk of not being the mist safe/secure brand anymore. So if there is a risk according to apple it will have touchid.
[doublepost=1499197862][/doublepost]
Yes, sure, and you can' t get fake passports, come on. All international airports, etc are full of facial recog tech. I know from first hand. I can' t tell you more, otherwise, i would have to kill you after... lol

In order to enter the US, the Passport is required to have an RFID chip built in. They know exactly who and where this person has been. It has a special encyrption key and if it's fake, it's quite obvious.

 

[KeanosMagicHat]

You don' t understand. Apple will never take that risk. If you think that, you don' t know how apple operates. This is about billions in claims, layabilities and in risk of not being the mist safe/secure brand anymore. So if there is a risk according to apple it will have touchid.

I think you're strongly overstating here, but you have your opinion and I have mine - come back to my earlier post on the power of advertising a month after the launch and we'll see whether it was proven correct.

 

[Packers1958]

Is it really going to be a pain though? My main concern is security versus TouchID, not usability.

(and it is a real concern for me so I remain a supporter of below screen TouchID until convinced otherwise)

I suspect they've already cracked the low light angle with this tech otherwise they wouldn't introduce it and most of the other complaints I've read on this thread centre around fringe situations such as, "what if I'm wearing a scuba mask?" or, "what if it's Halloween?" etc.

The biggest inconvenience people may experience is having to take their sunglasses / reading glasses off for a second.

Having said that, if you wear glasses a lot, couldn't they allow you to have a couple of "facial profiles" in the same way that they allow you to have multiple fingerprints at the moment?

In fact, taking this proposition further, it's possible they may allow for you to authorise multiple people to unlock your phone should you wish, Wife, Kids etc.

Depends on how sophisticated an integration Apple can perform.

If not, for those fringe situations, there's always the passcode.

Like I said before, Samsung will make Apple look like a fool for abandoning touch id, when Samsung comes out with a fingerprint sensor built right into the screen next spring.

 

[ValO]

If apple can' t make facial recog bulletproof , there will be some sort of touchid semsor on the iphone 8/x. You' ll not have to doubt that. They won' t risk their reputation if they are not 100% sure.
[doublepost=1499198456][/doublepost]

I think you're strongly overstating here, but you have your opinion and I have mine - come back to my earlier post on the power of advertising a month after the launch and we'll see whether it was proven correct.

Yes, and if the first cases about grand scale fraud are all over the internet , stealing billions of dollars of other people through apple pay, etc. apple will throw billions of dollars at just marketing and commercials to repair damages.
A real plausible scenario.